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Author Topic: [Chronicle] Xenocracy  (Read 16075 times)

Z.Sinraali

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #60 on: 20 Jun 2010, 16:05 »

I'm not sure the (entirely plausible, even probable) explanation of Omvistus-as-nublet does anything more than mildly dent the original criticisms. Even if he's just a lamer writing checks his implants can't cash, and the administrator is a clear case of the Peter principle in action, by all appearances he's nonetheless gotten away with it. Granted, the endstate here is probably beyond the scope of a single chron. But as it stands, the extrapolated significance of these events regarding the impotence of everyone other than the eggers is just as irritating as it was at the start. Maybe more so, since if a clueless nitwit can do all this, then what will a veteran podder with an alliance behind them do?

(The unnecessary literalism regarding game constructs is harder hit, since it's likely that Omvistus is bluffing, exaggerating, or just pants-on-head retarded regarding the reality of it all, but if he's not, then it comes back with full force.)
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Yoshito Sanders

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #61 on: 20 Jun 2010, 17:29 »

It's now his job to deal with chump muggers. For a long while, it wasn't. It was his job to be little more than a middle management type in the greater Federation bureaucracy.
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Kaleigh Doyle

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #62 on: 20 Jun 2010, 19:17 »

I loved the piece myself. I think its rather telling that even if he did wipe out millions of people, his transgressions would probably impact his security status and an aggression timer. IE. he'll get a slap on the wrist and send a deadly message to the people on their planet that they need to cooperate...or else.
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Mizhara

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #63 on: 20 Jun 2010, 19:26 »

I loved the piece myself. I think its rather telling that even if he did wipe out millions of people, his transgressions would probably impact his security status and an aggression timer. IE. he'll get a slap on the wrist and send a deadly message to the people on their planet that they need to cooperate...or else.

Finally! This, basically.
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Kaleigh Doyle

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #64 on: 20 Jun 2010, 20:37 »

Capsuleers have been written into the universe as the essential component to interstellar trade.

I think its sometimes difficult for people to really grasp this connection because we as players rarely ever actually interact with the empires beyond missions and trading (formerly) worthless commodities like livestock and consumer electronics to spacebound companies and government institutions. It's nearly impossible for us to see what kind of impact we have that justifies the atrocities we commit against them, or why it feels unbelievable that we are given such power.

Why don't they just switch off the clones and tell us to DIAF? Because we have to imagine ourselves important enough to the nations to overlook these kind of transgressions. We're penalized (sec hits) by CONCORD for transgressing against our fellow pilots, not because it's ammoral, but because CONCORD exists to ensure commerce flows smoothly between the empires, and that's as involved as they get in our affairs. And even then we're given an opportunity to redeem ourselves by regaining that security status by helping them do their job of regulating the economy by ridding the lawless elements.

It's unfortunate that the lore doesn't make a better effort to remind people of this.
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IzzyChan

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #65 on: 20 Jun 2010, 20:51 »

I thought it was totally badass.
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Mithfindel

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #66 on: 21 Jun 2010, 01:23 »

On Headfirst: Apparently, the live event return blog had content from him. He also wrote Ante (the chron where Silphy went back to Intaki).
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Natalcya Katla

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #67 on: 22 Jun 2010, 17:13 »

Planetary Administrator Leonalle Yvesk is now my favorite EVE personality.  :D

Let's see. He's the boss of a billion people. In the greater scheme of Federation politics he may be seen as a "glorified middle manager", but he's still the boss of an entire fucking planet, with the power to make decisions affecting a billion people's lives - among other things, tossing millions of them out of their homes with no prior notice. His planet is presented as a world close to the frontlines of a huge interstellar war (the factuality of this has been contested, but that's how the story presents it).

Yvesk, however, does not let such details go to his head. When he travels to work, he does so using public transportation together with a crowd of random strangers - both a humble and highly courageous thing to do for a man of such rank and responsibility. It would be wrong to say he is completely free of pride, though, as he allows himself some satisfaction at the deferrent demeanor of his single junior aide, who is, apparently, all the staff he needs assistance from during this highly delicate meeting.

All this is highly impressive behavior for the boss of a billion people.

As an aside, can anyone explain to me what in all the world the rationale behind Omvistus' threat of orbital bombardment was? Because I'm not seeing it.

Let's see. He tells Yvesk the spaceport components will be dropped in six hours. Yvesk retorts that evacuating people will take a week, and demands more time. Then Omvistus starts fiddling with his target painter and begins droning on about antimatter from above, as if that will suddenly make a six-hour evacuation more possible.

Why does he bother? Why doesn't he simply say something along the lines of "I don't give a shit about your demands, dirtling. The space port components are dropping in six hours, and that's the window of time you have. If there are still people there in six hours, then my space ports are going to land on top of them. Too bad, so sad. Deal with it or don't deal with it, I don't care either way."

If you're driving a bulldozer towards somebody's home, and said person runs out and begins to holler at you to stop the bulldozer long enough for him to get his shit out of the house, you don't need to wave a gun in his face in order to be an ass and have your way. All you need to do is to simply ignore the guy and not stop the bulldozer.

I'm just saying.  :P
« Last Edit: 22 Jun 2010, 17:16 by Natalcya Katla »
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Mizhara

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #68 on: 22 Jun 2010, 17:28 »

As an aside, can anyone explain to me what in all the world the rationale behind Omvistus' threat of orbital bombardment was? Because I'm not seeing it.

Let's see. He tells Yvesk the spaceport components will be dropped in six hours. Yvesk retorts that evacuating people will take a week, and demands more time. Then Omvistus starts fiddling with his target painter and begins droning on about antimatter from above, as if that will suddenly make a six-hour evacuation more possible.

Why does he bother? Why doesn't he simply say something along the lines of "I don't give a shit about your demands, dirtling. The space port components are dropping in six hours, and that's the window of time you have. If there are still people there in six hours, then my space ports are going to land on top of them. Too bad, so sad. Deal with it or don't deal with it, I don't care either way."

If you're driving a bulldozer towards somebody's home, and said person runs out and begins to holler at you to stop the bulldozer long enough for him to get his shit out of the house, you don't need to wave a gun in his face in order to be an ass and have your way. All you need to do is to simply ignore the guy and not stop the bulldozer.

I'm just saying.  :P

Domination. Just ignoring the yips from him and dumping them anyway sets you as some unknown quantity that can't be dealt with. Displaying a great deal more power, and a direct threat of a personal nature sets the stage for 'who is boss around here'. As the story told, the conversation went on a great deal longer than the end of the chronicle.

Omvistus simply opened their 'relationship' by setting Yvesk in his place, and thus set the stage for their entire relationship from there on out. It's simple domination mechanics.
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Natalcya Katla

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #69 on: 22 Jun 2010, 18:03 »

Landing space ports on top of people doesn't show them who's boss? If you're powerful enough to be able to ignore the yips of the tram-traveling boss of a billion people (how the hell did a pushover like that manage to get that high anyway?), and if your "relationship" with him is going to be all about you taking whatever you want whenever you want, then you can just as well skip the "relationship" part altogether and move right on to the "taking all I want when I want" bit.

I suppose it does make a little bit of sense if Omvistus actually literally does get an erection out of tickling this 70-year old Gallentean First Among Pedestrians with his target painter. To each their own.
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Mizhara

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #70 on: 22 Jun 2010, 18:12 »

Actually, like the chronicle said, they spent the rest of the day talking. (Unless I recall incorrectly). To me this implies a working relationship. The dropships come in six hours, and first impressions and early domination is the key to establishing who's who in any relationship.

This means that unless mister planetbound submitted to the orders, he needed to be swatted down. Not wait six hours and then deal with his grief and rage. Raise your fist and watch them cower within the first few minutes of a conversation, and you may save yourself having to beat them two hours later.
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Mithfindel

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #71 on: 23 Jun 2010, 01:47 »

It might be what Miz wrote, but extremely badly written. Or then just calculated to please the "omg I r so 1337" crowds by essentially re-hashing the new intro about how great the capsuleers are. I am still somewhat leaning on the later option. For one, people really don't fear what they don't see - so, the target painter was highly visible, but I'm not exactly convinced that a single display of asshattery would be enough to form a working relationship. Newton's third law and all that. (Force has a counter-force - people resist change.) Perhaps we'll later see more of Omvistus and his corp (um, Imperial Academy?) threatening some more to glass the planet after angry people who have lost their homes wreck a few factories. (Or riot against the guards.)

Depending on the interpretation, the capsuleer in question would be either

(1) A noob with 0 SP in the social category (Why he is negotiating for his corp, then? As a prank by more experienced capsuleers?)
(2) Someone with a serious tendency to go power-tripping. (Very appealing to lot of players.)
(3) Actually calculated act by someone experienced.
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Saede Riordan

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #72 on: 23 Jun 2010, 06:42 »

Actually, like the chronicle said, they spent the rest of the day talking. (Unless I recall incorrectly). To me this implies a working relationship. The dropships come in six hours, and first impressions and early domination is the key to establishing who's who in any relationship.

This means that unless mister planetbound submitted to the orders, he needed to be swatted down. Not wait six hours and then deal with his grief and rage. Raise your fist and watch them cower within the first few minutes of a conversation, and you may save yourself having to beat them two hours later.


I took is something along the lines of 'now that I've completely broken you, now we can talk' and then they hammered out an agreement of some sort wherein the Administrator sat there licking the boots of the capsuleer.

But that's not the problem with this article. The problem with this article is that it sets a precedent that doesn't make sense ingame, and has some disturbing consequences when taken to nth leve.

For instance, if its that easy to bombard a planet whats to stop me, 'hypothetical minmatar revolutionary" from flying their battleship into high orbit and telling Empress Sarum to suck it and turning Dam-Torzad into a big glassy spot? CONCORD won't respond until after I do it, at which point if you may not have noticed, the city is already gone.

The fact that Omvistus's arguement has any validity sets a precedent that says "we can completely flatten a world from above, and CONCORD will give us a slap on the wrist and blow up our ship."

It sets a precedent that the empire governments are impotent, and five of us could go around ransoming planetary governments not to reduce them to ash from 90 kilometers up. It sets a precedent that if we really wanted to destroy a government, then except for the Gallenteans hiding under the crystal boulevard, there isn't much that could be done to stop us, and frankly, none of it makes sense.
You don't just give away the sort of power that would render you impotent, you just don't do it, no government is that stupid.
So if capsuleers are this powerful and unstoppable, then why would the empires allow them to exist? I mean, even if Omvistus was totally talking out of his ass and didn't intend to do it, it still seems to set the precedent that if he wanted to do it, he could have. And therein lies the problem.
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Mizhara

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #73 on: 23 Jun 2010, 07:01 »

Eh, so very easy to handle with extremely little mental gymnastics. How about trying this one on for size manufactured in approximately 7.8 seconds after reading your post:

He didn't threaten a government. He threatened one piddly little planet in the ass end of space, from where any centralized government is sitting. He wasn't stupid. He knew he couldn't go and boss around a whole faction. He chose a planet which allowed him to set things up as he wanted it, as fast as he wanted it, without interference from powers actually capable of standing up to him and enforce it.

It sets no precedence other than what we already know. Capsuleers wield more power than pretty much anyone else in the galaxy, other than faction governments, and even that's slightly shaky. Nothing new under the sky, nor above it.
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Svetlana Scarlet

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Re: [Chronicle] Xenocracy
« Reply #74 on: 23 Jun 2010, 07:06 »

Pretty sure if I threatened to blow up Tolono, IL (population ~500) because I wanted to build a new factory there and they were being bitches about it, the FBI would have a few things they would like to discuss with me.  Especially if I started running around town with a gun and pointing it at the mayor.
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