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General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: Seriphyn on 28 Apr 2011, 06:35
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Interesting conversation I was having with a SOTF member that just returned to the Gallente militia after tour with NC.
[12:19:31] Seriphyn Inhonores > sup
[12:22:16] Dopified > so lock how bad was it in 0.0 that you guys came back
[12:22:42] Lock out > bad
[12:22:56] Lock out > most FW FCs are better than most 0.0 FCs
[12:23:10] Dopified > ouch
[12:23:16] Seriphyn Inhonores > why is that out of interest?
[12:23:33] Lock out > the CTAs are stay 2 hrs at a pos next to titan, bridge in, fight starts, you get lag in the first minute, and wake up in stn
[12:24:04] Lock out > dunno why it is m8, they are just terribad ppl, fighting another 1000 terribad ppl
[12:24:29] Lock out > and the most important aspect which nearly killed us was that 20 jumps each way was blue space
[12:24:53] Lock out > so to roam and find hostiles and a fight, every1 in fleet had to have at least 3 hrs available
[12:25:18] Lock out > it's not like here where u say "ok guys, am ust gonna dock in Tama and make my way back later"
[12:25:46] Dopified > lol
[12:25:48] Lock out > there once you commit to a fleet you are in hostile space and can't log there and expect to make it back, you need to stick with the fleet for hrs till it gets home
[12:26:00] Seraphina Oriana > Sounds painful
[12:26:02] Seriphyn Inhonores > bleh.
[12:26:14] Lock out > so ppl knew they didn;t have the time and didn;t join the fleets
[12:26:21] Dopified > well i knew that about 0.0
[12:27:01] Lock out > we kinda knew it too, but we were bored of squids running so we wanted something new, we just chose the wrong "new thing" :)
[12:27:22] Dopified > lol
[12:27:39] Dopified > you guys going to chose another thing?
[12:27:40] Dopified > lol
[12:28:02] Seriphyn Inhonores > do nullsec FCs rely on caps and supercaps too much, that's why they're not as good as FW FCs?
[12:28:18] Lock out > no, they rely on numbers
[12:28:27] Lock out > like 1000+
[12:28:35] Seriphyn Inhonores > makes sense
Seems FW has a lot of potential then, yet its wasted on nothing mechanical or tangible other than standings and bragging rights. If the FW zone was transformed into a "nullsec-lite", then this potential can be realized.
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NPC nullsec > sov space
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NPC nullsec > sov space
Also I'll add that just because the largest null-sec alliances work that way does not mean that all null-sec warfare is like that. If they really wanted to avoid the boredom of relying on titans to get you to fights and less lag they could join smaller groups.
Maybe I'm just biased from my perspective of small gang null-sec warfare, but it feels like there are other groups out there that at least throw out smaller gang sizes than the NC (well, under 100 :P).
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Based on my time in Syndicate and Curse, I tend to agree with Borza. And I've made clear many times to every CEO I've had that, if CCP ever bothers to give FW a proper iteration, I'm there. (Technically, I'm there now, but that character undocks like once every six weeks.)
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yeah, they choose the wrong route really
they should have gone to Pure Blind, Outer Ring, Syndicate, Wildlands or curse first, then true 0.0
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0.0 is much different, and the FCing is much different. Even out of FW I have found that I-RED is getting alot more kills/good fights in lowsec then almost any nullsec area we have been.. the main problem is income.
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NPC nullsec > sov space
Ohhh thisss.
Your friend just outlined a few of the reasons why joining the NC is lame.
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Income should never be a problem in EVE... Worst case, fly cheap T1 hulls (BC and below), and whatever income you have should be able to cover it.
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0.0 is much different, and the FCing is much different. Even out of FW I have found that I-RED is getting alot more kills/good fights in lowsec then almost any nullsec area we have been.. the main problem is income.
Income is easy. Sooooo easy.
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Income is easy. Sooooo easy.
Very true. But I-RED is an alliance, and hence aren't in a milita.
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Income is easy. Sooooo easy.
Very true. But I-RED is an alliance, and hence aren't in a milita.
Solution = Militia friends pull the missions and share the standings, let the IRed guys to the work.
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This could prove to be very problematic for them since they have burned bridges with the Amarr and Caldari milita and probably wouldn’t want to shoot Caldari State NPCs. That leaves the TLF, which might work…maybe.
They’ve always been anti-slavery, it just that they go about it by trying to change the system from the inside or doing a underground railroad type thing instead of the typical burn it down from the outside slant.
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This could prove to be very problematic for them since they have burned bridges with the Amarr and Caldari milita and probably wouldn’t want to shoot Caldari State NPCs. That leaves the TLF, which might work…maybe.
They’ve always been anti-slavery, it just that they go about it by trying to change the system from the inside or doing a underground railroad type thing instead of the typical burn it down from the outside slant.
IIRC I-RED is an alliance with industrial abilities. Where is the problem? Run mission as squads. 4 guys accept 4 lvl4's and all 4 do one at a time, 3 guys do them the 4th salvage.
Mine. Everyone help mine, then refine it, and build T1 ships like frigs, dessies, crusiers, BC's etc.
The alliance could sell these ships to alliance members for drastically reduced prizes, if only to cover buying high-end minerals like zydrine etc.
Honestly, income should be even less of an issue to an alliance like I-RED than a handfull of militia folks.
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That sort of thing is for them to figure out, but from my experience the only reason to produce tech one is if you are a militant group and need to make logistics easier for your combat pilots. Since the minerals required to build most t1 items are worth more than the final product you actually lose money by producing them. Even then you you could be using those factory slots to build stuff like ammo, rigs, or t2 that actually turns a profit - and then using the profit to buy ships for people.
Mining is tedious and has an extremely low income per hour. All your time would be eaten up with mining ops and you’d have none left to do whatever it is you needed isk to do in the first place. You would be better off missioning at a 100% tax rate and then buying the minerals. You'd have way more minerals on hand for the same amount of time spent and you wouldn't have to have everyone spend a month and a half training hulks, then spend 200M on each hulk.
Regarding FW Vs an Alliance: there is nothing that a milita group can't do in empire that an alliance could. The only advantage an alliance offers is the ability to manufacture your own super capitals in nullsec.
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IIRC I-RED is an alliance with industrial abilities. Where is the problem? Run mission as squads. 4 guys accept 4 lvl4's and all 4 do one at a time, 3 guys do them the 4th salvage.
Mine. Everyone help mine, then refine it, and build T1 ships like frigs, dessies, crusiers, BC's etc.
The alliance could sell these ships to alliance members for drastically reduced prizes, if only to cover buying high-end minerals like zydrine etc.
Honestly, income should be even less of an issue to an alliance like I-RED than a handfull of militia folks.
Our alliance is not Industrial anymore, the all fled the war for the most part. Alliance as a whole still brings in a few billion a month. Found a work around for individual pilots, all we have to do is Clone Jump to NPC null and rat, better isk per hour then Missions.
PvP: Lowsec > Nullsec
Industry: Nullsec > Lowsec/Highsec
For an alliance anyways.
Also we will never aid militia's directly in Military plex's killing NPC's and such.
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Regarding the comment in regards to "fleeing the war":
While that may have been the case for Strange Mining Inc., as they left shortly after a Wolfsbrigade fleet attacked an unsecured mining op, the same is not the case for [DISLG] - as had been explained before, an all-directors vote took place, during which the corporation's leadership decided that being in I-RED was no longer in our best interests. That does not amount to "fleeing a war" and should never be represented as such.
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Regarding the comment in regards to "fleeing the war":
While that may have been the case for Strange Mining Inc., as they left shortly after a Wolfsbrigade fleet attacked an unsecured mining op, the same is not the case for [DISLG] - as had been explained before, an all-directors vote took place, during which the corporation's leadership decided that being in I-RED was no longer in our best interests. That does not amount to "fleeing a war" and should never be represented as such.
Was not talking about DLG (Since you restarted the corp just before the war and had no chance to get indi stuff going), or Strange Mining. COCAB has been our indi wing for years... but anyways continue assuming.
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Regarding the comment in regards to "fleeing the war":
While that may have been the case for Strange Mining Inc., as they left shortly after a Wolfsbrigade fleet attacked an unsecured mining op, the same is not the case for [DISLG] - as had been explained before, an all-directors vote took place, during which the corporation's leadership decided that being in I-RED was no longer in our best interests. That does not amount to "fleeing a war" and should never be represented as such.
Was not talking about DLG (Since you restarted the corp just before the war and had no chance to get indi stuff going), or Strange Mining. COCAB has been our indi wing for years... but anyways continue assuming.
... I was about to apologize and put that vague comment as "misunderstood" until you went and said I was assuming. When a comment is so vague that it can potentially include my corporation, how is it assuming? Particularly, how is it assuming when I respond in an attempt to clarify?
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0.0 is much different, and the FCing is much different. Even out of FW I have found that I-RED is getting alot more kills/good fights in lowsec then almost any nullsec area we have been.. the main problem is income.
I think it has a lot to do with where you live. When you were in Syndicate/CR/OR/Fountain/whereever the hell you were, you were in an area where there are two types of groups. Type 1: USTZ small-gang entities that consider ~goodfights roughly even engagements where neither side goes in with a significant advantage of ewar, logistics, or tonnage (or one side does so willingly). Type 2: Napfest groups that are blue to 3/4 of the north and the only non-blob gangs they field are pitchfork gangs that generally refuse to engage unless they have a 2-1 superiority and/or are planning to drop capitals on the field just to seal the overwhelming advantage. In other words, if you're EU based, you weren't getting a lot of ~goodfights because of where you were. And to be fair, my experience in the EU timezone is that there are very few places where you don't get blobbed back into the stone age, which is unfortunately what happens when half of EVE are blue to each other.
Mining is tedious and has an extremely low income per hour. All your time would be eaten up with mining ops and you’d have none left to do whatever it is you needed isk to do in the first place. You would be better off missioning at a 100% tax rate and then buying the minerals. You'd have way more minerals on hand for the same amount of time spent and you wouldn't have to have everyone spend a month and a half training hulks, then spend 200M on each hulk.
You also left out a key part--anyone interested in not just blobbing something once in a while, but legitimately after good fights and exciting battles won't really stand for logging in to mandatory mining ops (or even optional mining ops when they soak up the majority of the pilots that might otherwise form a gang to go pick fights with), and eventually will either burn out and stop playing or leave for greener pastures--which are generally easy to find if you're looking for PvP-focused entities that abhor mining or even hearing the word mentioned.