Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => Player Driven Content => Topic started by: tarunik on 06 Dec 2011, 14:46
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Did the races develop their small-arms technology in concert with their racial heavy weapon (so, the Amarrians would have laser-based small arms, the Gallente ones based on particle blasters, the Caldari using coil/rail weaponry, while the Minmatar would be using firearms similar to RL ones)? Or are there some down-scaling limits on some of the weapon technologies available? (For instance, making it infeasible to build an infantry weapon based on pulse-laser technology.)
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Every thing I've seen suggest they all do scale down and that the races use whatever they do on their ships.
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That's pretty much how it goes. In TEA there's a few of such examples. Like when the first Caldari waves hit Luminaire they use EMP shocks to fuck over gallente infantry weapons, and in the same scene Caldari are quoted to use lowtech minmatar firearms lacking most electronic parts that make Caldari and Gallente weaponry vulnerable to such tricks. AFAIK there's been other such examples about them littered here and there in PF, and if not anything else, players have rather fervently adapted it as canon.
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*nods*
This does raise a question, though: How are non-Minmatar small arms powered? Do they have some sort of "battery" or power core? Is it fixed in place, or removable/replaceable? Is it rechargeable?
Also: would Amarrian small arms use a fixed focusing crystal, or would crystal swaps be as normal to them as reloading a gun IRL?
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I'd say that sort of detail is up to you.
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IMO, if we go with the "scaled down" theory - which I particularly like, I don't really know why - then non-projectile weapons might still require charges. Hybrid guns still need individual charges, but I don't think they're "thrown" the way a projectile weapon is. So for a hybrid pistol, I don't know, perhaps it's a battery and charges, or perhaps each charge has a way to power itself for one release of the stored payload.
Railguns could be effective in that same field, but again it would seem they'd need an internal power source as well as the charges they'd be firing. The only totally self-contained one I could think of would be a laser pistol, which would need a crystal and power source - so you'd probably just switch out the battery when it got low, or something to that effect. vOv
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Also: would Amarrian small arms use a fixed focusing crystal, or would crystal swaps be as normal to them as reloading a gun IRL?
Both?
At least I've played with both. Small cheap laser pistols with a fixed focus crystal, and nicer ones that allow crystal swaps (e.g. the Imperial Armaments Mandorla series, a compact pistol with a small grip1).
1Tinfoil Hat. Not PF.
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so you'd probably just switch out the battery when it got low, or something to that effect. vOv
Sort of like a thermal clip in ME2, eh?
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Remember the artworks for a few DUST guns. The Amarrian pistol looked definitly lazor powered to me.
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so you'd probably just switch out the battery when it got low, or something to that effect. vOv
Sort of like a thermal clip in ME2, eh?
Actually, not a bad idea.
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IMO, if we go with the "scaled down" theory - which I particularly like, I don't really know why - then non-projectile weapons might still require charges. Hybrid guns still need individual charges, but I don't think they're "thrown" the way a projectile weapon is. So for a hybrid pistol, I don't know, perhaps it's a battery and charges, or perhaps each charge has a way to power itself for one release of the stored payload.
Railguns could be effective in that same field, but again it would seem they'd need an internal power source as well as the charges they'd be firing. The only totally self-contained one I could think of would be a laser pistol, which would need a crystal and power source - so you'd probably just switch out the battery when it got low, or something to that effect. vOv
Yeah, I agree that hybrids would have an internal power source in addition to needing ammunition (I presume they'd be magazine-fed, just like their projectile brethren).
The bigger question for hybrids and lasers is: what do you do when your weapon is running out of juice? Can you just pop the power core out and put a fresh one in? Do you have to plug it into the wall, so to speak? Or are there cases where the power core is fixed, and you just throw away a dead weapon?
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TonyG said "The Gallente can make a laser weapon, but if you want a really good one, you go to Viziam"
Plasma-based weapons for Gallente/Caldari, mechanical/gas-powered stuff for Minmatar, laser for Amarr. Generally, but it sounds like each empire makes variants of each. Projectile weapons, for example, are going to be essential for mass production for low-tech colonies and such.
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I sware I posted on this, but I guess the forum ate this one too.
I've played Sai as having a one shot antique laser pistol where she has to change out a dead battery after every shot if she uses it at full power.
If you are looking for "clip" ideas I would suggest you google Metalstorm, or look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8hlj4EbdsE
If you could make something to withstand the recoil so a person could use it, you could use make an assault rifle or something where the "clip" is the barrel. You could adapt this idea to hybrid rounds for either a railgun like thing, or a blaster type thing.
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TonyG said "The Gallente can make a laser weapon, but if you want a really good one, you go to Viziam"
Plasma-based weapons for Gallente/Caldari, mechanical/gas-powered stuff for Minmatar, laser for Amarr. Generally, but it sounds like each empire makes variants of each. Projectile weapons, for example, are going to be essential for mass production for low-tech colonies and such.
Well, with projectile it's obvious how that pans out, there are different companies that make different guns with different parts, firing mechanisms, calibers of bullets, etc. So that makes sense.
I don't suppose it would be different with any other type. Mega PF's or the FIO might get some fancy, finely-crafted, highly disruptive hybrid guns, while the average station dweller might only be able to afford a basic type that loses some of its charge while firing. Not unlike a lesser pistol might not function well, be less accurate, produce a lot of gunpowder residues n'such...
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I remember reading a book a while back that involved charged-particle weapons wherein the weapon chambers a "bullet" that contains both a crystalized matrix with the particles trapped within it (similar to Hybrid rounds in EVE) and a chemical-based high-capacity power system. When the weapon is "fired", the chemical 'packet' is pierced, causing the chemicals to mix, react, and thus a current to be formed between the two halves. This is then used to vaporize the crystal matrix and fire the now-freed particles down the barrel via magnets. Then the weapon cycles the entire empty cartridge out and a new one in, rinse and repeat.
Wouldn't be hard to adapt that to laser tech either - just lose the charged particle bit and increase your 'chem packet' to provide more energy capacity.
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http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/For_the_State_%28Chronicle%29 (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/For_the_State_%28Chronicle%29)
At least some Caldari use man-portable railguns. Remember, hybrids are not just plasma weapons. As for railgun power sources, I find it credible that they could be powered either by a "central battery" in the weapon itself. Or then have a heavy backpack power source, possibly with just a capacitor in the railgun itself. Or then have capacitors in the rounds themselves. (The rounds would likely be not-charged during transport and storage, and recharged before loading the weapon.) It is notable that the EVE weapons are, as far as I am aware, actually coil guns, but regardless of the actual mechanism, they'd likely require serviceable parts (either the barrel or the rails) if we'd go with full realism.
Gallente blaster-type hybrids (particle accelerators) don't make much sense in athmosphere, perhaps they could be made some kind of a "shotgun" or "flamethrower" type weapon, short range but you don't want to be there.
As for Amarr weapons, rechargeable batteries on weapons, power packs or power plants carried on backpacks or discardeable batteries all would work within reason. As noted, there could be both interchangeable lasering units ("crystals") or fixed-wavelength weapons. The scientist in me wonders about the precision of removable crystals when serviced in field conditions, but I guess that is a non-issue at infantry combat ranges (slightly greater for snipers etc.)
And finally, it'd be quite interesting to see electrolasers. A high-power beam causes blooming in the medium, which causes it to disperse and lose power. The solution is to ionize the medium and then send an electric shock during this conductive channel. (Artificial lightning, if you wish to see it so.) Of course, another solution is simply to use pulse lasers with such of a short pulses that the blooming effect is avoided. A yet more technical solution is to monitor the dispersion of the beam and then adjust focus to avoid it.
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[spoiler](http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/dachucky/DUST514-concept-Pistol_Amarr.jpg)[/spoiler]
What bothers me a bit about the weapons manufacturers in DUST is that Imperial Armaments isn't up there with Carthum when it comes to laser tech (and why Viziam is considered the best boggles my poor headbits). Just grabbing a faction's T2 manufacturers is an easy solution, but doesn't mean it automatically makes sense from a PF standpoint.
The Empire ought to be pretty damn good at centralizing armament production, because of its ingrained customs of restricting knowledge. It was always what I considered to be the main reason why Viziam's line of ships tended to favour missiles (with very few exceptions), while Carthum enjoyed a position as favoured developer for the Royal Houses and whenever the Imperial warmachine needed to outsource something big.
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Minmatar: Bullets, bullets, + moar bullets
Cheap, reliable, long-lived projectile weapons.
Simple, easy to use, easy too fix. None of this messing about with plasma, laser crystals or any small arms that to them would seem needlessly complicated when high velocity metal does a good job.
Now that said alongside the simpler firearms, there would be more hi-tec stuff I believe, simmilar to technologies being employed in weapons research now.
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Minmatar: Bullets, bullets, + moar bullets
Cheap, reliable, long-lived projectile weapons.
Simple, easy to use, easy too fix. None of this messing about with plasma, laser crystals or any small arms that to them would seem needlessly complicated when high velocity metal does a good job.
Now that said alongside the simpler firearms, there would be more hi-tec stuff I believe, simmilar to technologies being employed in weapons research now.
Bullets still work, of course. ;) (Although I do wonder if there are any "standard" calibers in the Republic's arsenal akin to how we have the 5.56mm and 7.62mm NATO and the 9mm Parabellum IRL.)
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in amarr cosmos, there is mention of "elite laser pistols", also manportable AT lasers as a heavy weapon.
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[spoiler](http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/dachucky/DUST514-concept-Pistol_Amarr.jpg)[/spoiler]
What bothers me a bit about the weapons manufacturers in DUST is that Imperial Armaments isn't up there with Carthum when it comes to laser tech (and why Viziam is considered the best boggles my poor headbits). Just grabbing a faction's T2 manufacturers is an easy solution, but doesn't mean it automatically makes sense from a PF standpoint.
The Empire ought to be pretty damn good at centralizing armament production, because of its ingrained customs of restricting knowledge. It was always what I considered to be the main reason why Viziam's line of ships tended to favour missiles (with very few exceptions), while Carthum enjoyed a position as favoured developer for the Royal Houses and whenever the Imperial warmachine needed to outsource something big.
What Viziam ships, exactly, carry missiles? The Purifier naturally, since it is the bomber, but as far as I am aware, the Redeemer and the Zealot don't carry missiles. Are you sure you are not mixing them with Khanid Innovations - which is not part of the troika there. Imperial Armaments is one of the largest arms manufacturers (perhaps after Kaalakiota?), Viziam and Carthum are relatively new, though they're still megacorps.
From the description of the Zealot (Viziam):
For their first production-ready starship design, Viziam opted to focus on their core proficiencies - heavy armor and highly optimized weaponry. The result is an extremely focused design that, when used correctly, can go toe-to-toe with any contemporary cruiser design.
Absolution (Carthum):
Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited.
Of course, the newer Viziam blurb from for example the Sentinel states:
Viziam ships are quite possibly the most durable ships money can buy. Their armor is second to none and that, combined with superior shields, makes them hard nuts to crack. Of course this does mean they are rather slow and possess somewhat more limited weapons and electronics options.
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Are you sure you are not mixing them with Khanid Innovations
Yeah, I definitely am. Was just about to cross out my blunder :oops:
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What a coincidink! http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2011/12/08/infantry-weapons-in-dust-514/
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What a coincidink! http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2011/12/08/infantry-weapons-in-dust-514/
Dat (Gallente) Ass(ault Rifle)!
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Adapted from Deep Core Mining Inc.’s proprietary technology, the DCMA S-1...
Gives a whole new spin on "drilling someone full of holes".
Also proves that the Caldari mine with missiles.
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Of course, the newer Viziam blurb from for example the Sentinel states:
Viziam ships are quite possibly the most durable ships money can buy. Their armor is second to none and that, combined with superior shields, makes them hard nuts to crack. Of course this does mean they are rather slow and possess somewhat more limited weapons and electronics options.
Which is completely dumb to my opinion considering this description mostly fits to Khanid ships that are slow and hard nuts to crack, and that most viziam ships are fast and powerful, but probably the less sturdy of the 3 amarr T2 manufacturers : Redeemer, but especially the Zealot and the prorator.
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I want the Amarr to have Grasers from my fiction :p
Imagine a flamethrower, except it pukes intense, searing gamma radiation in a narrow cone. It can also be used for area denial by irradiating an area, the effects of which linger for a while.
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I want the Amarr to have Grasers from my fiction :p
Imagine a flamethrower, except it pukes intense, searing gamma radiation in a narrow cone. It can also be used for area denial by irradiating an area, the effects of which linger for a while.
Meltagun?
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If everyone's armoured, then there's less room for advanced Minmatar gadget-ammo, like the veinsplitter ammunition (nanobot bullets which upon impact on unprotected areas dig in an make a mess).
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If everyone's armoured, then there's less room for advanced Minmatar gadget-ammo, like the veinsplitter ammunition (nanobot bullets which upon impact on unprotected areas dig in an make a mess).
AP-Sabot Veinsplitters - put it in an armor piercing shell that cracks open when it detects the armor is breached.
But more seriously, I doubt CCP would want (outside of the heavy weapons class) ammo like Veinsplitters that more or less guarantee a kill if you manage to land a single round on somebody.
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I want the Amarr to have Grasers from my fiction :p
Or perhaps a "Graeser? :lol:
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I want the Amarr to have Grasers from my fiction :p
Or perhaps a "Graeser? :lol:
Ohgod. Dat pun.
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I want the Amarr to have Grasers from my fiction :p
Or perhaps a "Graeser? :lol:
Ohgod. Dat pun.
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo59acP4OZ1ql8xx7o1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1324440071&Signature=SeqxPfA7ZO82k8ATu3QrHR7aj50%3D)
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Great topic.
Some interesting related weaponry we might consider:
1. I wonder quite a bit about cyberization and then "built-in" weaponry. I seem to recall an image of a 'true slave' from one of the last trailers that showed some integrated hand weaponry.
Although the PF is very light in this area I'd imagine the more elite troops from all 4 empires would be heavily mechanized or cyberized.
I'm having mental images of spec ops teams of Khanid Cyberknights pulling some Motoko Kusanagi Ghost in the Shell style combat on enemies, ruining their whole day.
In addition we have Caldari M-tacs (i believe that's the name?), so we start getting into crazy small-scale mechwarrior situations as well, with metal behemoths charging about and unloading heavy firepower on the puny infantry around them. The mechs would certainly be able to fit much larger and heavier versions of the weapons being discussed (and probably at that point incorporating missiles as well).
Ground combat in EVE is scary business.
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Great topic.
Some interesting related weaponry we might consider:
1. I wonder quite a bit about cyberization and then "built-in" weaponry. I seem to recall an image of a 'true slave' from one of the last trailers that showed some integrated hand weaponry.
Although the PF is very light in this area I'd imagine the more elite troops from all 4 empires would be heavily mechanized or cyberized.
I'm having mental images of spec ops teams of Khanid Cyberknights pulling some Motoko Kusanagi Ghost in the Shell style combat on enemies, ruining their whole day.
Actually, IIRC, The Burning Age mentions there was a "natural limit" to cybernetic enhancement. Basically, the more cybernetics added to the human body, the less and less mentally capable that person became. It seemed to imply that you can have full body cyborgs, but theyre rather more like monotask servitors from Warhammer 40k than Robocop.
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The mini-mecha people are thinking about are Mechanical Torso-Actuated Chassises (MTACs).
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http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Items_%28technology%29#Military
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Actually, IIRC, The Burning Age mentions there was a "natural limit" to cybernetic enhancement. Basically, the more cybernetics added to the human body, the less and less mentally capable that person became. It seemed to imply that you can have full body cyborgs, but theyre rather more like monotask servitors from Warhammer 40k than Robocop.
Seems the writer of that book is a fan of the 'cybernetics eat your soul' trope. I won't apologize for the language when I say that this is total bullshit, and we can argue this until we off ourselves in boredom. There is no 'natural' limit to cybernization that affects the mind's ability to function - being a complete cyborg - that is, effectively a brain and support organs in a glorified walking metal jar, has no effect other than perhaps make the inhabitant of said metal jar question his/her existence and self-identity.
Beyond that fact ofc, what CCP's employees chose to make canon in their own universe is up to them, but that don't mean any of us have to buy into their claims. It does however mean we would have to respect it as PF.
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There is no 'natural' limit to cybernization that affects the mind's ability to function - being a complete cyborg - that is, effectively a brain and support organs in a glorified walking metal jar, has no effect other than perhaps make the inhabitant of said metal jar question his/her existence and self-identity.
Anybody got the number to report a mad scientist to the authorities?
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We're not there yet, I'd say. Though there are issues with lost limbs, assuming you can't replicate the neural impulses. For example, my grandfather lost his leg up to the knee in the second world war. He apparently had phantom pain rather often (the missing parts were "hurting"), and it just got worse when the foot of his missing leg was itchy.
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There is no 'natural' limit to cybernization that affects the mind's ability to function - being a complete cyborg - that is, effectively a brain and support organs in a glorified walking metal jar, has no effect other than perhaps make the inhabitant of said metal jar question his/her existence and self-identity.
Anybody got the number to report a mad scientist to the authorities?
;)
More on topic.
My extreme annoyance with the above idiotic claim aside, while we can't in today's world get close to any of this, the EVE universe has demonstrated more than ample tech to make the cybernetic war-machine/human combo work.
- Scientists know full well how to grow entire human bodies for mass-consumption by capsuleers and others, even if this is very expensive to your average joe, and body-moding tech is reportedly available to the citizens dumb enough/willing to go through with it. Implant tech is an age-old art mastered by the Empire, Federation and I'm sure plenty more, all arguing who is better at it. This means in short that they have the medical tech to assist people with cybernetics with any biological and implant-needed help, and help integrate the human brain and any needed supporting organs with the rest of the body.
- Nano-machine tech exists in many forms, demonstrated by nano-paste used to fix ship modules on the molecular level and even active in-battle hull and armor repair nano-pumps that flood the surface of the ship with uncounted trillions of them little things, effectively re-growing and mending 'injuries' or damage to the ship as they appear. The art of out-DPS'ing an active armor tank is the art of tearing holes faster than the nano-machines can plug them, basically. Ergo, it's not to hard to assume they know how to make the little things 'grow' a machine body as a perfect replica of the human body's functions. With this, a whole artificial nerve-system can be constructed and linked to the human mind in control of this fancy piece of hard-ware and suddenly the mental command 'move the limbs' is obeyed by the non-biological appendages you want to move about.
- Capsuleers can be trained to mentally vacate their fleshy bodies and effectively become a huge warship. They are in total direct command of this vessel; when they move fingers module racks activate and do as desired, and so on. It would be so much simpler to simply train a seriously wounded/near dead/willing trooper to master the use of a cybernetic body, becoming accustomed to it's function and all the little tricks it contains.
And when you have gotten that far, there is hardly a limit to how many gadgets and weapons and such one can install or what gear one can use. Freaking imagination limits you, and mine can imagine quite allot.
Apology for the slight de-railment.
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There is no 'natural' limit to cybernization that affects the mind's ability to function - being a complete cyborg - that is, effectively a brain and support organs in a glorified walking metal jar, has no effect other than perhaps make the inhabitant of said metal jar question his/her existence and self-identity.
Anybody got the number to report a mad scientist to the authorities?
;)
More on topic.
My extreme annoyance with the above idiotic claim aside, while we can't in today's world get close to any of this, the EVE universe has demonstrated more than ample tech to make the cybernetic war-machine/human combo work.
- Scientists know full well how to grow entire human bodies for mass-consumption by capsuleers and others, even if this is very expensive to your average joe, and body-moding tech is reportedly available to the citizens dumb enough/willing to go through with it. Implant tech is an age-old art mastered by the Empire, Federation and I'm sure plenty more, all arguing who is better at it. This means in short that they have the medical tech to assist people with cybernetics with any biological and implant-needed help, and help integrate the human brain and any needed supporting organs with the rest of the body.
- Nano-machine tech exists in many forms, demonstrated by nano-paste used to fix ship modules on the molecular level and even active in-battle hull and armor repair nano-pumps that flood the surface of the ship with uncounted trillions of them little things, effectively re-growing and mending 'injuries' or damage to the ship as they appear. The art of out-DPS'ing an active armor tank is the art of tearing holes faster than the nano-machines can plug them, basically. Ergo, it's not to hard to assume they know how to make the little things 'grow' a machine body as a perfect replica of the human body's functions. With this, a whole artificial nerve-system can be constructed and linked to the human mind in control of this fancy piece of hard-ware and suddenly the mental command 'move the limbs' is obeyed by the non-biological appendages you want to move about.
- Capsuleers can be trained to mentally vacate their fleshy bodies and effectively become a huge warship. They are in total direct command of this vessel; when they move fingers module racks activate and do as desired, and so on. It would be so much simpler to simply train a seriously wounded/near dead/willing trooper to master the use of a cybernetic body, becoming accustomed to it's function and all the little tricks it contains.
And when you have gotten that far, there is hardly a limit to how many gadgets and weapons and such one can install or what gear one can use. Freaking imagination limits you, and mine can imagine quite allot.
Apology for the slight de-railment.
I'm with Bloodbird on this one. I think it would quickly come down to money and where people spend it. The most effective cost / benefit ratio would quickly be determined weather it more effective to throw 150 baseliner infantry and weapons at a target or throw a handful of fully mechanized cyborgs
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Im just quoting the PF on this. The PF isnt about cost-balance effectiveness. Its about the PF saying that fullborg ala Ghost in the Shell is impossible for physically and biologically reasons, not economic ones. Im sure the Empires would field those kind of cyborgs if they could. They cant.
Why? Dunno. Most likely thematic reasons as much as "scientific ones". Probably because they dont want to take away from DUST and their characters.
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Im just quoting the PF on this. The PF isnt about cost-balance effectiveness. Its about the PF saying that fullborg ala Ghost in the Shell is impossible for physically and biologically reasons, not economic ones. Im sure the Empires would field those kind of cyborgs if they could. They cant.
Why? Dunno. Most likely thematic reasons as much as "scientific ones". Probably because they dont want to take away from DUST and their characters.
That makes sense. I hope someday they elaborate a bit on the relevant Khanid bloodline though:
Cyber Knights
Many of the Khanid want to keep their warriors competitive, but the only way to do so in the modern world is through extensive body enhancements. The advanced knowledge of cyber implants possessed by the Amarrians has proven exceptionally useful in this regard. Some Khanids still aim to excel in physical combat, while the more progressive ones seek to become masters of modern warfare.
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Great topic.
Some interesting related weaponry we might consider:
1. I wonder quite a bit about cyberization and then "built-in" weaponry. I seem to recall an image of a 'true slave' from one of the last trailers that showed some integrated hand weaponry.
Although the PF is very light in this area I'd imagine the more elite troops from all 4 empires would be heavily mechanized or cyberized.
I'm having mental images of spec ops teams of Khanid Cyberknights pulling some Motoko Kusanagi Ghost in the Shell style combat on enemies, ruining their whole day.
Actually, IIRC, The Burning Age mentions there was a "natural limit" to cybernetic enhancement. Basically, the more cybernetics added to the human body, the less and less mentally capable that person became. It seemed to imply that you can have full body cyborgs, but theyre rather more like monotask servitors from Warhammer 40k than Robocop.
I will be looking into my copy of TBL to see if there is any mention of this. If you know what specific part of the book it was in, it would help.
This sounds like something that probably arose during the Sansha segment, and it is rather misleading as a general cybernetic policy.
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I will be looking into my copy of TBL to see if there is any mention of this. If you know what specific part of the book it was in, it would help.
This sounds like something that probably arose during the Sansha segment, and it is rather misleading as a general cybernetic policy.
There is a bit of Sansha talk about it a little bit between pg. 92-98 (softcover). Might be more, but that's all I bothered with.
'I just didn't think it was possible. The more you shove metal into someone, and take away the body they've grown used to, the less they can usefully operate.'
There is that... There is that, yeah,'
The general lack of cybernetics beyond the brain does seem to fit with what I've seen from EVE PF where the majority of modification seems to be from brain implants and biological modification. Though if anyone does know of extensive cyber modification that'd be cool to see.
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On a sidenote, I'd quite like to know if we're going to be seeing borg-esque Sansha invaders planetside :P
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[spoiler](http://cdn.zmescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/trex.jpg)[/spoiler]
small arms?
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[spoiler](http://cdn.zmescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/trex.jpg)[/spoiler]
small arms?
http://youtu.be/3LVXjB_VUfk
Relevant.
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On a sidenote, I'd quite like to know if we're going to be seeing borg-esque Sansha invaders planetside :P
Outside of the current nanomachine neural override invasion that is described in the chronicle Uplifting, profoundly unlikely.
I will be looking into my copy of TBL to see if there is any mention of this. If you know what specific part of the book it was in, it would help.
This sounds like something that probably arose during the Sansha segment, and it is rather misleading as a general cybernetic policy.
There is a bit of Sansha talk about it a little bit between pg. 92-98 (softcover). Might be more, but that's all I bothered with.
'I just didn't think it was possible. The more you shove metal into someone, and take away the body they've grown used to, the less they can usefully operate.'
There is that... There is that, yeah,'
The general lack of cybernetics beyond the brain does seem to fit with what I've seen from EVE PF where the majority of modification seems to be from brain implants and biological modification. Though if anyone does know of extensive cyber modification that'd be cool to see.
That quote, and what digging I've done thus far, seems to indicate it's largely speculation. Not done entirely yet.
FWIW - the idea of a natural limit sends a wrecking ball through cybernetic and Infomorph story details, so I highly doubt its a natural condition that exists for the sake of limiting implantation. It's possible they're talking in context of how Sansha cybernetics work (and their extreme human automation techniques), but even that is not irrefutably clear. This topic is worth splitting and discussing more if people are truly bothered by it - I would continue it, simply because such an idea needs to be discarded due to the damage it could do.
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The firearms world changes slowly, as, at least with projectile weapons, there are only so many ways to design the weapon/bullet until you have a combination good enough that you see no need to improve it.
The 45-70 cartridge is over 140 years old. It is still the no 1 round for close range hunting in North America.
The 30-06 is over 100 years old. It served as a military round through 2 World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, and even saw limited use in Afghanistan and Iraq, in addition to being a rifle cartridge you can buy anywhere, in any sporting or gun shop, on Earth, as it is an insanely popular hunting round.
The .45 ACP round, and the pistol designed around it, the 1911, have just reached their 100th birthday and show no signs of fading away. Other cartridges, such as 9mm Parabellum, 7.62 x 51, and others, will likely be around for at least another hundred years, as simply, there is no need to look for something "better". They do their job just fine.
Firearm design changes almost as slowly as cartridge design, due to factors ranging from people not wanting things messed with, to the problems in teaching arms drill to an army when you change the model of service weapon. The "bullpup" design, the most noticable change in firearm design for the last century, still hasnt quite caught on. Belt fed machine guns are still the norm for support, bolt-action rifles for snipers, semi or selective rifles fed from a box magazine for infantry.
Look at the changes in aircraft since the Vietnam war... then consider that, US forces anyway, are still using the same service rifle, albeit with some (very necessary) improvements over the original design. The AK-47 and its countless derivatives have been around for over 60 years, and I assure you, they will be around for at least another century, quite likely more.
The stuff works, is reliable, it is easy to manufacture, it is easy to train someone to use. This matters a whole hell of a lot more than being the most "advanced, high tech, lethal weapon in existence!"
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Firearm design changes almost as slowly as cartridge design, due to factors ranging from people not wanting things messed with, to the problems in teaching arms drill to an army when you change the model of service weapon. The "bullpup" design, the most noticable change in firearm design for the last century, still hasnt quite caught on.
It looks as though drills in some militaries have caught up with the changes, but I can't resist noting that "Rest on your arms, reverse(d)", often used ceremonially, looked really silly with bullpups, and the bullpup alternative positions require you to support the weight of the weapon.
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Firearm design changes almost as slowly as cartridge design, due to factors ranging from people not wanting things messed with, to the problems in teaching arms drill to an army when you change the model of service weapon. The "bullpup" design, the most noticable change in firearm design for the last century, still hasnt quite caught on.
It looks as though drills in some militaries have caught up with the changes, but I can't resist noting that "Rest on your arms, reverse(d)", often used ceremonially, looked really silly with bullpups, and the bullpup alternative positions require you to support the weight of the weapon.
Bullpups are good... Provided the manufacturer had enough gray matter to put in a switchable ejection port so left handed peeps don't get a face full of cocking handle and/or hot brass down their shirt. (still hilarious when it happens though)