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[Lithium Flower]

4. The Caldari tend to pull together in a crisis, not apart, especially in the face of war with a foreign power and ESPECIALLY the Gallente. In order for a Caldari civil war to go hot, their borders would need to be secure.

This!

I don't see this civil war as a real civil war, more like a conflict between "old" and "new" police forces (like how I imagine it could happen). If shouldn't touch caldari population (with a small exception of corporate armies might shoot at pro-Heth civilian meetings, and counterwise, templis dragonaurs might shoot at pro-old-CEP corporate meetings) and the Navy wouldn't intervene while provists and TD will be having the upper hand. Navy continue bashing the Federation, while new provist and TD police bash remains of old corporate armies.

But of course, I agree, that Caldari shouldn't go war against each other while there is a foreign enemy. Unfortunately, it's not in our hands, but in hands of CCP.

[Aria Jenneth]

I don't see this civil war as a real civil war, more like a conflict between "old" and "new" police forces (like how I imagine it could happen). If shouldn't touch caldari population (with a small exception of corporate armies might shoot at pro-Heth civilian meetings, and counterwise, templis dragonaurs might shoot at pro-old-CEP corporate meetings) and the Navy wouldn't intervene while provists and TD will be having the upper hand. Navy continue bashing the Federation, while new provist and TD police bash remains of old corporate armies.

I'd actually see the Dragonaurs and Provist forces getting the short end of this particular stick. The Dragonaurs are an old and broadly recognized terrorist organization that has been banned for most of its existence and probably isn't thought too well of by most, even now. The Provists are a trans-corporate nationalist organization that drew its power from a groundswell of public support-- and there are growing signs that said groundswell is well and truly spent.

By contrast, the corporate security forces are old and well-respected entities with tremendously deep roots in Caldari culture and politics that have been preparing for decades to wage a civil war against one another. Consider the respective backgrounds of the Eagle and Cerberus HACs. Repurposing those resources to take down the Provists and Dragonaurs is pretty much as simple as switching targets.

The messy possibility is that some of the corporations would back the Provists, but the corporate faction that actually liked Heth best was the Practicals, and they're already on the move against him. See, e.g., NOH's recent visit to Caldari Prime.

Edit:

Oh, and this is so not going to happen: http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/tibus-heth-proclaims-vision-for-single-solidified-state/

CCP has shown more appetite for expanding canon than for rewriting it. Fundamental changes to Caldari society (ditching the corporations, which Heth is clearly indicating a desire to do) would require complete rewrites of so many carefully-thought-out, detailed articles it's not even funny. It would replace them with something quite a bit less interesting, as well.

[mark726]

CCP has shown more appetite for expanding canon than for rewriting it. Fundamental changes to Caldari society (ditching the corporations, which Heth is clearly indicating a desire to do) would require complete rewrites of so many carefully-thought-out, detailed articles it's not even funny. It would replace them with something quite a bit less interesting, as well.

Have to agree on this.  We already have one unified single-sovereign empire.  Not to mention that they've very much played up his illness in recent news events.  My biggest thought is that they'll be killing him off soon-ish, given how exhausted he is just about every time he opens his mouth.

[BloodBird]

CCP has shown more appetite for expanding canon than for rewriting it. Fundamental changes to Caldari society (ditching the corporations, which Heth is clearly indicating a desire to do) would require complete rewrites of so many carefully-thought-out, detailed articles it's not even funny. It would replace them with something quite a bit less interesting, as well.

Have to agree on this.  We already have one unified single-sovereign empire.  Not to mention that they've very much played up his illness in recent news events.  My biggest thought is that they'll be killing him off soon-ish, given how exhausted he is just about every time he opens his mouth.

Also supporting the idea that he is simply trying to maintain his crippling power-base, and failing at it. Heth is swiftly running up to the finale of his impact on EVE PF.

I do wonder what players like Diana Kim will do when/if Heth dies.

[Lithium Flower]

I do wonder what players like Diana Kim will do when/if Heth dies.

Your best bet would be to ask. Isn't it what RP for, eh? 

[Aria Jenneth]

Heth may die, but his cause preceded him and will survive him. It would actually be neat to see some flat-out Templis Dragonaur loyalists around, even if they're not running the State.

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

Exactly. After all, the Roman Empire did not fall apart when Brutus plunged in the knife...

[orange]

Exactly. After all, the Roman Empire did not fall apart when Brutus plunged in the knife...

The Empire didn't exist in 44 B.C.

The beginning of the reign of Augustus is generally considered the behind off Imperial rule, but at the time Augustus was considered first among equals (it quickly went down hill from there)  The murder of Julius Caesar was followed by a civil war between Marcus Antonius and Octavian Caesar which might be considered the fall of the Republic.

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

That's exactly what I mean. Both Julius Caesar and Heth sought to replace a republic (very loosely applied in the case of the State - I'm thinking the CEP might be considered analogous to the Roman Senate, with the mega-corporations as Senators) with an empire. In Caesar's case, his death did not stop this from happening. Likewise, I think it would be both unrealistic and unsatisfying if Heth's death led to a simple rollback of the clock, as it were.

[Aria Jenneth]

It won't roll back the clock, I don't think, but I don't expect the State to become what Heth envisions, which would be pretty close to the "space Nazis" I keep hearing the Caldari described as by thems as doesn't gets the nuances.

("Executor? We've just received formal notice from the law firm of Bonnmum, Shutem, and Burnham, counsel for the Helghast. They're accusing us of, and I quote, 'Bogarting our schtick.'")

[mark726]

Heth may die, but his cause preceded him and will survive him. It would actually be neat to see some flat-out Templis Dragonaur loyalists around, even if they're not running the State.

I don't know Caldari history all that well except as it intersects with Gallente history.  Was there a strong Provist/unity movement before Heth?  I don't really recall running across them much prior to Heth while researching the lore guide.

[Sakura Nihil]

I volunteer to be a barbarian sacking Jita 4-4!  ...err, I mean Rome.

 

[Aria Jenneth]

I don't know Caldari history all that well except as it intersects with Gallente history.  Was there a strong Provist/unity movement before Heth?  I don't really recall running across them much prior to Heth while researching the lore guide.

Caldari unity is cultural and pervasive. For a good if somewhat abstract sense of how it works, read the chronicle "Cold Wind." What is said of the Deteis and Civire there applies just as easily to the megas. They bicker like family, but they are family just the same.

Heth's bit is the ugly vein of nationalist pride and xenophobia underlying the Caldari cultural identity. He is rumored to have been (and canonically was) a member of the Templis Dragonaurs, the nationalist, racist Caldari terrorist assholes who bombed Nouvelle Rouvenor (sp?) and touched off the Great War.

You can think of them as militant isolationists who don't even want foreigners as neighbors. If you see a bunch of Caldari acting like xenophobic jerks, be it bombing Gallentean underwater cities, persecuting ethnic Intaki who sided with the Caldari in the Great War (thus leading to the founding of Mordu's Legion), or the kind of shenanigans Heth gets up to, you can be pretty sure they're either behind it or applauding enthusiastically.

They represent the worst of the Caldari (they ARE the fascist streak), and they've long been banned for very good reason. It may say something about the width of that streak that they have never been successfully wiped out.

[orange]

For a good if somewhat abstract sense of how it works, read the chronicle "Cold Wind."

Cold Wind is written from a particular perspective, the Lai Dai perspective, and therefore its message may not align with the views of all the other megas.

From ”Two Bloodlines, one Race: the Raata spirit in the Deteis and Civire soul”, Lai Dai Press, YR87. Reprinted with permission.

[Aria Jenneth]

All presses in the State are owned by one mega or another.

Everything is.

We have no indication that Cold Wind is a Lai Dai story, only-- but it is of a kind that the Patriots would be apt to appreciate.

For a good sense of the way the State works, examine closely the chronicle on State factionalism. The difference between the factions is not precisely over worldview; it's over how best to advance the interests of the State.

The Liberals believe in a policy of open trade-- not for the good of those traded with, but for the greater good of the State.

The Patriots believe in what Aria used to call "porcupine diplomacy," believing in a strong military and isolationist trading policies. Notice that these two, while diametric opposites in their area of policy disagreement, disagree primarily on whether to open borders or close them. They do not differ on, for example, the proper form of State governance, or (very much) on how the Caldari themselves should live.

The Practicals are the exception to all of this: they're better described as "looters," and are the State faction with the absolute least sense of responsibility for the wellbeing of the Caldari. They're kind of infamous for this. Fortunately, they are few in number, but I find it telling that they're the only State faction that was actually happy to see Heth's rise, even if his beliefs superficially seem to align more closely with those of the Patriots.

The Patriots may have long kind of wanted to do what Heth has been getting up to, but they have historically been wise enough not to do it.