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[Silas Vitalia]

Anabella had good stuff to say.  Your lolfit drake that you suicided into that lowsec camp was full of people you just got murdered.  Time to write letters to their families or embrace being a cold hearted bastard

Again I think it's usually great to see the capsuleers who still have remorse, who try to maintain their human connections, and who struggle with these things.

[Erys Charantes]

Things that engage me...

Humanity.  A character that's trying to keep that connection alive.
Reality.  Issues that people have in life, rather than just 'Capsuleer Things (tm)'
Evolution.  People change, and half the fun for me is watching it happen.
Layers.  Finding that the person you see may not be the person you come to know.  Everyone has layers of trust, affection, hate, and thought.

Things that shut down my interest faster than dropping a bunker buster on it...

No IC/OOC divide.  You are your character, to a degree...  But there is still a line.  It's a game, and at the end of the day, I play for fun.
Broken record.  If I've gotten to the point of where I know when and what will be said, it's gone stale.
Peter Perfect.  Everyone is good at something...  No one is a master of everything.  Weaknesses define a character as much, if not more, than strengths.  Worse still is the character who must top everything that everyone else has done or experienced, regardless of what it is...
Constant strife.  Conflict is central to life...  But it's not a 24/7 constant.  There needs to be a balance.

[Gottii]

<snip>
- martial arts! -- every character is trained in martial arts!  Its like a requirement for capsuleer academy or something.  I focused on Gottii's "ancient martial traditions" cus thats like, the very basic Brutor write up.  All the strip mall ninjas in EVE RP kinda take away from Brutor culture, imho

Really? I figured it was reasonable for Arnulf because he graduated from one of the military schools. Maybe it's more the practitioners who do it for self-discipline and fitness benefits (like him) and characters that are supposed to be out-of-capsule tough?

Also, I think there are more bloodlines than the Brutor with a warrior culture. The Khanid come to mind for one.

Almost every character practices "martial arts" on some level, or adds it to their culture/background.  Literally to the point were its rare when someone isnt trained in martial arts.

Which is fine, but, when I decided to RP and play my main as an RP character (needless to say "Gottii" wasnt originally an RP name), I looked at the Brutor backstory, and said "ok, cool, they're a warrior culture, train in it since birth, martial arts and physical prowess are important to them..."

Then, you start RPing.... (exaggerated)

Caldari 1: "So, tell me of your people brutor!"

Amarr 1: "Speak heathen, we wish to know!"

Gallente 1:  "I find your traditions so quaint and interesting!"

Brutor: "Um, well, we're a martial based people, we practice our martial traditions since childhood, and we..."

Gallente: "OMG, we do that too!  I've been trained in ancient Jin-mei arts since I was a child! Its been our traditions since forever! We should spar or something!

Brutor:  "Really?  Wow, okay, I guess we share that...I didnt know..."

Caldari: "Weak Gallente know nothing about martial arts.  I've been trained in deadly Civire arts since I was a child.  Its an ingrained part of our very life! We're widely regarded as the best" 

Brutor: "Wow, uhh, I thought the Caldari didnt value esoteric arts?

Caldari: "Nonsense.  Martial arts are central to our life, Im an expert at it."

Amarr:  "Ignore these fools! I've been trained in the ways of martial excellence by my Houses very best martial teachers since I was a small child!  It is the tradition in our House to emphasize such things!  We are feared the Cluster over!"

Amarr: "But enough about us, tell us more of your people..."

Brutor: "Well, uhh, its kinda like what ya'll do, but...well, without the yanno, Amarr, Caldari or Gallente bits."

Im exaggerating, but everyone having that background kinda leaves you with very little thats distinctive or defining in Brutor culture.  Do Brutor have a monopoly on such things?  Of course not.  But the write up on the Brutor would seem to imply that a focus on martial traditions and physical training is rare and unique enough to be distinctive, its their "thing".  But it can be frustrating when your distinctive racial background is pretty much the norm for every other PC you run into.

Again, before Im flamed, nothing wrong with characters of other bloodlines and background practicing martial traditions, etc.  Its just that its become so watered down that its hard to create a Brutor background that doesnt seem watered down in return.

Re: Martial arts and the military. 

I can promise you this.

The military couldn't really care less about teaching its people martial arts, at least the ancient, comprehensive kinds. 

Yes, even the high end soldiers.  Its a labor intensive skill that has very little battlefield application in todays day and age.  They dont like to say it, but guys like SEALS or SAS members or whatever arent really trained all that much in martial arts per se, theyre trained in a couple basic hand to hand techniques before moving on to more meaningful skills (marksmanship, insertion techniques, comms use, foreign language, explosives, or any one of the vast number of other skills they need). 

In fact, in CQB, theyre trained not to fight per se.  You either shoot them, or ram the barrel of your gun into their skull, or yell at them to drop their weapons and surrender (maybe, maybe stab them with a knife if theyre cowboys).  Thats about it.  Punching or kicking or ju-jitsu wrestling or whatever takes too long, and will get your squadies killed.

Keep in mind that in most cases to teach a traditional martial art takes a long time, and a lot of effort.  The military only has its high end soldiers for a relatively short amount of time before they retire/go nuts from PTSD/die/body gives out, etc.  The military wants to teach the skills that give the best bang for their buck on the battlefield.  Teaching roundhouses and joint locks isnt exactly the most efficient use of a soldiers limited training life.

Does this mean your typical guy who trains at the MMA gym can take say a SEAL or Israeli commando in a fight?  Of course not.  A typical spec ops soldier is a naturally aggressive exceptional athlete who's completely emotionally at ease inflicting grievous bodily harm upon another human being.  They would thrash the typical  civilian "martial artist", simply because most people, even trained ring fighters, arent really at ease going from 0 to "ram a finger in your eye socket and literally pull out your eyeball" in .6 secs.  Truly elite soldiers are, and that matters far more in highly stressful life or death situations where most fine body control disappears anyway. 

They dont engage in "social violence" like a bar fight, they're there to kill. 

Sure, many soldiers are trained in 6 month set hand-to-hand courses, but thats not what most people think of when they think of "martial arts".  The reason why military-based martial arts are occasionally in vogue is because they taught a basic and effective set of combat skills in a relatively short amount of time.  But, again, they're primal and basic and in many cases more a morale boosting exercise. 

Sure, say like the U.S. Marines teach its members a punch, a kick, and a couple throws over the span of a few months, but no serious trainer would say they're "trained" after all of that.  Many high end soldiers practice some kind of martial arts as a hobby (generally learned before they joined up), and some units encourage it for cultural reasons (south korean commandos come to mind), but its hardly universal, or really necessary.

Are there some high end civilian martial artists who could beat say a typical commando in a straight up fist fight?  Sure, but they're very, very rare.  But learning to punch, kick, use a sword, etc has so little to do with the modern battlefield that soldiers are far better off learning other more important, less time and labor intensive skills, and generally they do. 

[Lyn Farel]

Yeah pretty much.

[Gesakaarin]

I would probably agree on the martial arts and the need to spar everything in sight can be a bit weird when I think capsuleers already have access to extremely destructive spaceships - why not duel in those?

I sometimes wonder if that's "Katana syndrome" I notice in other games as in: Yes, I'm well aware the setting means everyone has guns, but through my mad katana skills I will defeat them all while looking as completely cool as possible. That or it might be people just wanting to measure and compare their e-peens.

My characters with a military background know hand-to-hand/CQB techniques but I always centered them on being relevant to the setting. They probably don't know some totally sweet flying kicks but they'd probably know how to quickly clear a space between their opponent to shoot them centre of mass with a rifle, freely clear their sidearm, or if all else fails do a throw and beat the other guy's skull in with an entrenching tool.

[Katrina Oniseki]

My character knows the Caldari cousin of Tai Chi, but only practices it more as a health art. It was taught to her in order to teach her self control, and ends up being a "soft" martial art that doesn't really do any damage but protects her and uses the attacker's force against them.

[Havohej]

I've never liked the martial artist capsuleer in general, or any other "I could be played by Jason Statham or anyone else in the Expendables" physical super soldier capsuleer gimmicks.  It's been my view that, given how capsuleers get into their space ships and these ships are the extension of themselves, their bodies, then all of their training and augmentations are rightly in their mental attributes - as reflected by the game mechanics and the character sheet.

I don't have a character with 18 STR and 24 DEX because why would he bother?  It wouldn't make him a more effective pilot in any way, shape or form.  I've seen some examples of people who weren't good at PvP in their spaceships RPing characters who could kick seven peoples' asses simultaneously using only finger strikes.  It's an RP turn-off for me for sure, just as much as people who ARE good at PvP in their spaceships having this 'trait' for their character.  Given that there is no game mechanic for killing another character outside of the spaceship PvP game, it all seems pointless to me as a character focus, except in the case of the Brutor who have it PF'd into them.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I've never liked the martial artist capsuleer in general, or any other "I could be played by Jason Statham or anyone else in the Expendables" physical super soldier capsuleer gimmicks.  It's been my view that, given how capsuleers get into their space ships and these ships are the extension of themselves, their bodies, then all of their training and augmentations are rightly in their mental attributes - as reflected by the game mechanics and the character sheet.

I don't have a character with 18 STR and 24 DEX because why would he bother?  It wouldn't make him a more effective pilot in any way, shape or form.  I've seen some examples of people who weren't good at PvP in their spaceships RPing characters who could kick seven peoples' asses simultaneously using only finger strikes.  It's an RP turn-off for me for sure, just as much as people who ARE good at PvP in their spaceships having this 'trait' for their character.  Given that there is no game mechanic for killing another character outside of the spaceship PvP game, it all seems pointless to me as a character focus, except in the case of the Brutor who have it PF'd into them.

Would you feel the same for a self-defense art? Considering how otherwise fragile capsuleers tend to be, would it not make sense for them to learn some sort of defense art as well as training in cardio and other escape-relevant aspects?

The ability to dodge a punch or not hesitate and lock up when you see a gun drawn on you from within a crowd, and the ability to run as fast as you can for as long as you can while your security team holds off whoever is pursuing you... those seem like pretty essential survival skills for a high value kidnapping or assassination target.

I'm not talking about Bruce Lee or the Terminator here. I'm talking about physical and martial survival skills.

[Havohej]

I see Havo more as having a bodyguard or two following him about and having a high enough perception score (after augmentations) to quickly perceive a threat, grab one of his bodyguards by the shoulder and pull the guard between himself and the threat while shouting the alarum.

Taking up a tai-chi sort of thing as a hobby, as your character for instance, sure, that's reasonable.  It's more the sort of thing Gottii talks about above that I also dislike.  The capsuleer-as-expert-out-of-pod-fighter/soldier, to me, is unreasonable given the overall theme of the thing.  I'm a frikken billionaire, why am I ever going to be in a fist fight with anyone for any reason, let alone a shoot out (outside of spaceships)?  Feels like a waste of ISK to me.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I'm a frikken billionaire, why am I ever going to be in a fist fight with anyone for any reason, let alone a shoot out (outside of spaceships)?  Feels like a waste of ISK to me.

Waste of ISK is a good example. A single clone of Kat's costs more than an entire division of bodyguards' annual salaries put together. Possibly more.

[Havohej]

Exactly.  I think most capsuleers would be cold and uncaring about their employees' salaries and pay as little as they can get away with without having to worry about employee backstabbing more than usual.  So why risk the ISK invested in your clone's augmentations on a 'street brawl' or gun fight when bodyguards are so cheap? ^^

[Repentence Tyrathlion]

Both Elysa and Reppy are competent duellists, but... well, Elysa was brought up in a military academy from the age of 8, and Reppy basically got sick of having to rely on other people protecting her.  She will still have bodyguards around the place, and won't take any risks - but at the same time, what's better?  Having a highly capable cadre of soldiers follow her around when she feels like she needs some extra protection, or having that and knowing that if it comes to it, you can punch someone's nose through their brain?  It's more a psychological boost than anything, and there's definitely an element of self-discipline and hobby to it, but as confidence boosts go, it's significant.

Neither is a character that is going to make a full Bruce Lee act their opening gambit in a bad situation, but it's an element in their arsenals.  Or at least, that's my justification.

Also helps that Reppy has a slightly very totally deranged fondness for getting her hands dirty.

[kalaratiri]

I think Capsuleers are possibly the most obvious sufferers of Syndrome Syndrome I've ever encountered.

Everybody is Special™ so nobody is Special™.

This leads players to trying to create characters that stand out, often at the expense of PF or sanity.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

<snip>
Re: Martial arts and the military. 

I can promise you this.

The military couldn't really care less about teaching its people martial arts, at least the ancient, comprehensive kinds. 

Yes, even the high end soldiers.  Its a labor intensive skill that has very little battlefield application in todays day and age.
<snip>

Fair point. However how many military establishments encourage taking up some sort of martial sport such as boxing? Unless I am mistaken quite a lot of them. That's the context I had in mind for Arnulf.

Also, his father is Brutor. So in part he is participating in Brutor culture.

[Veyako Koyama]

I don't find it implausible that all Caldari characters (those born/living in the State) would have a basic working knowledge of rudimentary forms of self-defense.  They're all trained as soldiers at some point. 

In collaboration with this thought, and from RL experience/accounting - it in not uncommon for a soldier/sailor/marine/airman to find the techniques taught to them through their various basic trainings and then AIT/Technical School, etc. an interest and seek slots in more advanced courses in various branches or taking up a martial art as a hobby.  I would agree that leadership encourages these things...but not necessarily to make you a better fighter.  It's more or less a "better you're learning jiu jitsu at the studio and staying fit than drinking at a bar and getting busted with a DUI."

I dislike being given the impression that a character is like something from Street Fighter, a consummate warrior whose impressive martial prowess is something to be feared and is on high alert at all times.  It's almost the opposite of a god-mod with NPCs.  We acknowledge never assuming a punch is landed, but these types always assume they are untouchable in any situation, or always ready and capable of picking out an aggressor.  It just isn't believable.

I have a co-worker who'd gone through the USAF Combat Control courses and admits to being a terrible marksman at any sort of range due to their training emphasizing short range engagements where that level of skill is unnecessary.  My dad (still in the Army (a mix of Active and Reserve, he can't make up his mind) these past 32 years and working on 33) is a 2nd degree black belt in Tang Soo Do and has told me on numerous occasions that not once in any situation within his entire career has any of the martial art he studied come into play.  He's instead utilized the various CQC/self-defensive tactics courses taught that don't emphasize that style of fighting (i.e. Jet Li/Bruce Lee movie kind).

As far as thinking the martial art will make you ready at all times:

-I've watched a trained soldier get his eye knocked out of its socket by a scrawny college student in a club over a girl because he was caught off guard.

-I was able to sleep through rocket attacks, car bombs, and machine gun fire while in Iraq because mentally I was expecting these things and was prepared should they happen.  It took at least a month (I can't pinpoint the exact time length) after I'd returned to quit jumping at every slammed door or dropped package that sounded vaguely explosion like because mentally, I was no longer prepared.  Trying to run at that level for too long wears you out.  When a bomb goes off, everyone ducks, even the badass.  It's that ducking that gives those with the training to switch on that mental mode to start taking action.

In support of being ready at a moments notice in a crowd...I agree that it's possible, but requires training.

Long ago, when Antonio Banderas' Mask of Zorro came out, my dad took me to the premiere because he loved Zorro.  The theater was filling and he and I were picking our seats when somewhere in the front row some dude grabs a lady's purse and makes for the emergency exit.  I had barely registered the fact that he was a bad person before I was witnessing my dad slamming the man face first through that exit door and into the arms of a bewildered Zorro expecting to be the savior or what turned out to be a mock robbery.  Not a single other person in that near packed theater had even attempted to stop the guy.  My dad was singular in the category of those who acted in that moment within that span of seconds.

I apologize if I got a little daddy worship in this post...but they're (and the couple other examples I listed) the most firsthand accounts I had that influence what I take as believable in an RP character.  Not to say that the Bruce Lee types cannot exist...but if he did, why would any organization give up that level of soldier to a capsuleer program that would no longer benefit them in the here/now?