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Author Topic: RP PvP Corps.  (Read 12385 times)

Saede Riordan

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #105 on: 30 Aug 2012, 13:36 »

I think part of it might relate to the fact that every RP corp is the master of its own domain. Most seem to be focused on the defense of their nation. When was the last time an Amarrian corp stuck its neck out and actually wardecced a minmatar corp? Or the reverse for that matter? Everyone is waiting for someone to come to them, and if no one does, they simply stay in their areas. Part of this is timezone differences, not wanting to spend all day playing station games and the like, and the lack of any real tangible benefits of winning, and the only victory conditions currently achievable mechanically being total corp destruction.  I think the new POS system will alieviate that a bit. Give players new things to shoot at, and wreck, and blow up. But I think part of it can be solved if a few corps are simply willing to stick their necks out and drop decs on people. Once I get ALXVP into combat worthy shape, I'll probably be dropping declarations left and right, just to try and get something interesting to happen.
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Karmilla Strife

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #106 on: 30 Aug 2012, 13:49 »

I started RP and PVP at the same time. It was a side project to distract me from nullsec industrial grind. Lo and behold it collectively was so fun that years later I'm out of null and now Eve for me is RP and pvp. I won't claim to be a master of pew-pew but I get by and enjoy it as a highlight that compliments my gameplay. That said my favorite PVP moments have also had RP significance. EM had a series of wars against Amarr corps for their birthday. My first day in KotMC was fighting past that blockade in Amarr to go fight the FW war. Also my favorite kill isn't my first, my most expensive, or my best solo. My favorite is when i happened to run into an ex-corp member (traitor!) in a fw plex. The fight was fun, the local smack was tasteful and meaningful, executing the pod was pure bliss.  I dont think RP makes pvp necessary (I'm still a carebear on the side) but PVP with RP background is a delicious gaming experience.

Also re Ava:  next time you won't be lucky with those cheap shots to the nose!  :cube:
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lallara zhuul

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #107 on: 30 Aug 2012, 14:04 »

The farming aspect...

Making ISK in the beginning was fun, you were learning, the world was your oyster kind of stuff.

After years of that shit it all turns into a grind, even if you optimize your passive income, even if you get your adrenaline fix from running a gate camp, it is still a soul killing grind. Even PVP, infiltrating 'enemy' corporations with alts, RPing in a static universe, it is pretty much all the same.

The problem with growing up and having a job, career and a family means that your time gets more and more precious.

Its easy to waffle 20-40 hours a week to a game when your main priorities is getting laid and drunk.

It is quite hard to manage the same thing when you have REAL real life responsibilities breathing down your neck or when somebody that is dependent on you for his/her life crying his/her lungs out in the next room.

Any risk, any waste of ISK, anything that takes away from the measure that you have set yourself for being successful in EVE becomes a complete and utter waste of your most precious resource, time.

I think the fact that the player base has matured and moved on in their lives has affected EVE more than any war, CCP fuckup or corp heist.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #108 on: 30 Aug 2012, 14:09 »

Also re Ava:  next time you won't be lucky with those cheap shots to the nose!  :cube:

Ava, a tactical tip: go for the boob instead next time. *flees*

Honestly, if there were a reason for me to go shooting someone, I would.

Unfortunately, I'm not in a corp with enough PVP-capable characters (let alone active players) to be quite capable of taking care of anything outside of opportunistic attacks in low/null, and certainly not one that is about to go around throwing wardecs with lawl-allies ready to counter, so chances of me enacting pew-pew on anything that isn't an outlaw in highsec (or aggressed to me) are reasonably slim at the moment. There's also the whole issue of neutral logi, etc. ...

So, I'm kinda stuck with other methods of warfare should I need them - fortunately, what little I do have has seemed to work, mostly. :ugh:
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Gottii

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #109 on: 30 Aug 2012, 14:40 »

As a former PVP addict, I can say that making billions trading was the worst thing that ever happened to me.

I really enjoyed trading, a lot.  (market wars are the most ruthless type of EVE PvP, bar none, and often incredibly expensive.  People are utterly cuttthroat) But eventually it got dull.

That said, once I made more than I could reasonably spend without going to a super-cap or two, I totally lost that fear of losing your ship, and suddenly PVP lost a bit of its emotional edge and impact.  I kept upping the ante, more implants, only flying faction ships, but nothing really got me that rush I had when I knew the Vagabond I was flying was almost all of the ISK to my name. 

That said, earning ISK to arm yourself is as much a part of PVP as pressing "F1".  EVE is a game about money and power.  Having ISK and having the skills to earn lots of ISK should give you an advantage in combat in a grimdark world like EVE.  I just wish it was a little more nuanced and balaned and  less "oh look, 20 bored PL Nyx pilots in Amamake".
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scagga

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #110 on: 30 Aug 2012, 15:21 »

When I am told of cases wherein RP Corp A roflstomped RP Corp B and saw nothing wrong with it OOC, I must conclude one of two things.  Either the leadership of RP Corp A genuinely fails to understand that using excessive force robs RP Corp B of their entertainment value or that they are assholes.  There is a gradient here.  Large, powerful, and experienced organizations should be expected to defeat smaller, younger ones.  They can, however, do so without griefing the losing party.  It's called sportsmanship.

That is an excellent idea.  It never occurred to me that parties could agree on rules of engagement...e.g.

5-10 man gang, cruiser and below.  Or, battleship only fleet. etc.
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Merdaneth

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #111 on: 30 Aug 2012, 15:27 »

That said, once I made more than I could reasonably spend without going to a super-cap or two, I totally lost that fear of losing your ship, and suddenly PVP lost a bit of its emotional edge and impact.  I kept upping the ante, more implants, only flying faction ships, but nothing really got me that rush I had when I knew the Vagabond I was flying was almost all of the ISK to my name.

You need to stop when you got 'sufficient' isk. Never got much above 6-7 billion isk myself, just stopped earning at that point. Between 1-5 billion isk I can fly ships into combat without worrying if I can pay for a replacement, but not have enough that it doesn't feel as a loss.

But, going back to the RP-PvP, when PvP is more than an interesting gameplay challenge, when it has actual meaning because of the relationships between the particpants, it also has much more emotional edge and impact. You don't need actual RP opponents to it, you can have a special history with others as well, but it does add to the meaning and the enjoyment of the PvP.
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Altaen

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #112 on: 30 Aug 2012, 15:53 »

Loving this discussion, by the way. Thanks for starting it Kyber!

I fear that the more I get serious about PVP, the less I get serious about RP. I wonder if this is common elsewhere, and if some of the issues mentioned here stem from a similar root.
This might come somewhat from the amount of metagaming that goes into honing the PVP craft. When my enemy (friendemy in many cases) shares his fit with me in an OOC channel we both occupy, this is very much an OOC exchange, but I'd find it awfully hard not to use that knowledge when fighting them later, even if I consider every shot fired to be fired in character.
Watching livestreams, pvp videos, listening to podcasts, and trawling failheap/teamliquid/reddit for battle reports, AARs, intel, fits, and tactics discussion all feel very much like out of character behaviors, and have led to out of character "kinship" with people Altaen should despise. Altaen has also used so much OOC obtained information in the field, that it all kind of feels silly.

That said, on the subject of choosing to fight IC enemies over OOC enemies...my attempts at immersion kind of keep me from being able to differentiate them. If anything, the IC enemies seem sane, well-spoken and reasonable, and therefore less threatening than the batshit insane and clearly brain damaged/drug addled average podder.
The few roleplaying enemies I do encounter will always be treated in the exact same tactical consideration as the rest of the present hostiles. So if Shalee Lianne, Almity and 6 Agony Empire are plexing in Kamela, Altaen only really sees 8 war targets, and sets about dealing with them only based on the in-space situation.
 I might be really confused as to what the hell the Agony dudes are on about when they scream "bAmarr victor," and refer to their CEO as Empress, but I am equally motivated to make their things explode as any other Amarr militia.

I really do wish there were more opportunities to deal with roleplaying "consequences" of victory or failure versus other roleplayers. I miss our old permawar with PIE, and their presence in the warzone in general. One of my favorite fights to date was when PIE brought a nice battleship gang to the Teon gate in Bosena, two jumps from RE-AW's main offices.
I am however completely against placing artificial or OOCly motivated restrictions on combat to make these sorts of conflicts more fair or sporting.

And I very much welcome the opportunity to be publicly shamed on IGS for losing to my fellow roleplayers. I would never deliberately avoid fighting roleplayers to prevent this from happening.

(Psssst. Don't tell anyone I told you this, but EM are all carebears and lolRPers, so you should war dec us for easy kills and killboard padding. Promise. Just think of the mocking you'll be able to do on IGS! It'll be GLORIOUS!)
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Gesakaarin

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #113 on: 30 Aug 2012, 16:50 »

I fear that the more I get serious about PVP, the less I get serious about RP. I wonder if this is common elsewhere, and if some of the issues mentioned here stem from a similar root.

In the past I've found it ridiculously difficult trying to both FC/PvP whilst at the same time being in an RP discussion in corp in addition to maybe one or more IC convos at the same time. PvP and in particular the command and hunting aspects require a lot of focus to do properly as a player and trying to RP at the same time can be distracting. Generally, when you're thinking of things like where you're going to move a fleet, managing intel from scouts, spamming d-scan, and coming up with tactics it's hard to summon up the mental bandwidth to RP with any semblance of thought at the same time.

Well, for me anyway.
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Saede Riordan

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #114 on: 30 Aug 2012, 16:57 »

I fear that the more I get serious about PVP, the less I get serious about RP. I wonder if this is common elsewhere, and if some of the issues mentioned here stem from a similar root.

In the past I've found it ridiculously difficult trying to both FC/PvP whilst at the same time being in an RP discussion in corp in addition to maybe one or more IC convos at the same time. PvP and in particular the command and hunting aspects require a lot of focus to do properly as a player and trying to RP at the same time can be distracting. Generally, when you're thinking of things like where you're going to move a fleet, managing intel from scouts, spamming d-scan, and coming up with tactics it's hard to summon up the mental bandwidth to RP with any semblance of thought at the same time.

Well, for me anyway.

Well yeah. When I'm PVPing at all, and FCing especially, the only RP I'm doing is in fleet chat and in local and with my guns. When people want to know why you aren't free to socialize, just tell them you're in a fleet and are busy.
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Ava Starfire

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #115 on: 30 Aug 2012, 21:09 »

(Psssst. Don't tell anyone I told you this, but EM are all carebears and lolRPers, so you should war dec us for easy kills and killboard padding. Promise. Just think of the mocking you'll be able to do on IGS! It'll be GLORIOUS!)

Seconding this! Honest. Its a goodplan.
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kalaratiri

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #116 on: 31 Aug 2012, 06:40 »

(Psssst. Don't tell anyone I told you this, but EM are all carebears and lolRPers, so you should war dec us for easy kills and killboard padding. Promise. Just think of the mocking you'll be able to do on IGS! It'll be GLORIOUS!)

Seconding this! Honest. Its a goodplan.

Confirming. I have an actual quote from Arkady that states: "EM is an industrial alliance. No one here is good at pvp"
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #117 on: 31 Aug 2012, 13:07 »

Looking at something Saede said, is it actually possible here that one reason for the lack of RPvP is that there are very few people interested in taking the initiative to attack someone else first?

If so, why? Is it an OOC fear of being perceived as "the bad guy", or have times actually changed IC to the point that nobody is interested in escalating things anymore?
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Kybernetes Moros

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #118 on: 31 Aug 2012, 13:15 »

Looking at something Saede said, is it actually possible here that one reason for the lack of RPvP is that there are very few people interested in taking the initiative to attack someone else first?

If so, why? Is it an OOC fear of being perceived as "the bad guy", or have times actually changed IC to the point that nobody is interested in escalating things anymore?

This came up earlier in the thread. Aside from some mention of "the dragons have people come to hunt them" that made zero sense to me, I really have no idea why "Please, come shoot us!" is dominant over "well, we'll just come shoot you".
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Shaalira

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Re: RP PvP Corps.
« Reply #119 on: 31 Aug 2012, 22:48 »

I enjoy PvP.  I also enjoy RP.  But, I enjoy them for different reasons.

EVE PvP is appealing (for me) because of the sandbox combination of sponteneity, unpredictability and skill/planning.  When you roam the pipes, you really don't know what's going to happen.  Some of my most enjoyable engagements were chaotic three-way battles and completely unexpected encounters.

RP is another matter entirely, and is often the joint effort by two or more players to tell a story.  Combining the two, for me, leads to contrived conflict that takes away from the fluid, emergent nature of EVE PvP.  This isn't to say I don't enjoy shooting RPers when the opportunity presents itself;  only that I won't go out of my way to fashion RP'ed wars with other RPers.

For more insight into why sandbox PvP is unique, listen to Kil2's podcast concerning 'a good fight.'  See episode 18

Besides, the RP population is so small compared to the general populace that focusing on RP conflict limits your target selection.  For someone that honestly enjoys PvP in EVE, that's far too constricting.

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