Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => Player Driven Content => Topic started by: lallara zhuul on 18 Jul 2012, 05:59
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I've just been running through the language discussions of late and there does not seem to be any kind of consensus on how to address these things.
I'm not a linguist but I've always gone by the ear with English and some of these just sound awful.
So to get some peace of mind and (hopefully) a consensus.
Le Poll.
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Personally I would err on the side of caution and go with the first option, but the third one always has worked with most of the languages as well...
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I choosed the first one since it sounds almost universal for me. You can use it for every language by putting the name of the faction followed by the word "language", especially if you do not really know which suffix to add or how it is called.
For the rest I do not really know, since for example IRL we can find all of these : Finnish, English, Spanish, Italian, Russian, Chinese, Japanese...
I am not a linguist either so I couldnt tell...
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I choose none of the above. Variety is nice. "Caldanese" is a term with some history to it. "Napanii" is something a bit different. I like the name "Amarrad". "Amarric" sounds neat, but both are a bit contrived. In general, something other than just [empire name]+[suffix] is cool. I'd prefer "Garounais" to "Gallentean" any day. And remember, the names of individual languages can be as varied as the number of foreign languages that have names for them.
The official dialect of the Chinese language, for example, can be correctly referred to in English as "Chinese" or "Mandarin". If you're talking about the Chinese dialect of southern China, the name "Cantonese" is just as correct. There are smaller dialects as well. "Shanghaiese" (known as 沪语 Hùyǔ), for example, is also 100% "Chinese". Same for the dialect we might as well call "Taiwanese". In its own words the Chinese language can go by more than one correct name, such as 中文 Zhōngwén or 汉语 Hànyǔ. Languages and dialect families are often too large to be aptly summed up with single names. And this is just on modern Earth. In New Eden, it's a big cluster, so... more variety!
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Amarish, Caldanese and Gallentean are correct names, and are backed up by references in chronicles.
No explicit names have been given to any Minmatar languages as far as I can remember, so aside from that case, it doesn't really matter what we say - the primary languages of three of the four empires have actual names determined by CCP. Regional dialects, smaller entities, sure. But not the big four, I'd think.
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That's the thing.
Amarish and Caldanese both are names of the languages that do not really fit my ear.
Back in the day even Herko boggled from the name Caldanese, and Amarish?
Come on.
Amarrish at least.
I think bittervets have pretty much 'proven' when talking about PF, or even the English language, that CCP is more than fallible when it comes to these things.
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Caldanese surely sounds weird to me, but Amarrish not that much...
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The only times I see the official languages mentioned tend to be people bitching about their names.
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For me, I'd say a common syntax across all 4 Empires wouldn't really fit the setting. I'm partial to the following however for the dominant Languages of the Cluster:-
Minmatar Republic - Matari
Gallente Federation - Gallentean
Amarr Empire - High Imperial
Caldari State - Caldari
In addition, you'd have numerous Minor Languages and Dialects, some stretching across whole regions, such as Khanid, others may be restricted to a single System, a single World, or even to a smaller area on a World. You could even have an Artificial Common Language for the Cluster, primarily designed for Cross Empire Trade and Diplomacy.
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Modern Imperial Standard for the Empire (like Modern Standard Arabic, with a lot of dialects beside), Khanid for the Khanid people, Sacred Language for the Scriptures (like Leshon Hakodesh (Hebrew: לשון הקודש; lit. "the sacred language").
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The Civire speak only FUCKYOU.
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Let's read this chron in full:
The most obvious problem in inter-racial communication is the language difference. All the major races in EVE speak their own language and all attempts to make one the lingua franca have failed because of stubbornness over accepting any one language as the dominant one. Amarish, the language of the largest empire, is obviously the most common language, especially as most Minmatars also speak the language. But the Gallenteans refuse to acknowledge Amarish as the official language in inter-racial communications as they don’t want to give the Amarr Empire the political prestige that would follow. On the other hand, the language of the Gallente Federation (Gallentean) is by far the most common second language, largely because of their very influential entertainment industry. But the Caldari absolutely refuse to speak Gallentean and the Amarrians are also not too keen on it for the same reason that the Gallenteans won’t speak Amarish.
This means that most high-profile discussions between representatives of the empires, such as in the numerous inter-racial organizations, rely heavily on interpreters. But in one field the language a person knows has become irrelevant and the field is that of a space captain.
The unique nature of the capsule with its sophisticated neural rigging gives ship captains the option to link their minds to all kinds of computer systems, which they can use to their advantage. One of these devices that is today a standard feature in all capsules is the translator module.
The translator module is a software module that is a part of the communication system of the ship. It intercepts all incoming communications and translates them into the language preferred by the captain. The first translators were pretty lousy by today’s standard, they could only translate written communications and frequently messed up the text. But the latest versions are able to translate voice as well as text and have become very good at projecting mood-swings, slang, weird accents and such, for a near perfect translation. With the steady increase in cyber-implants these translators have begun appearing outside the capsule as well and many predict that within a few years translators will make the debate over which language should prevail in inter-racial communication a futile one.
That's your base.
Each "race"--with however many bloodlines--has its own language. Amarish and Gallentean languages are named.
There's no interstellar "common" language, for political reasons.
Our translators do near-perfect on-the fly translation of voice and text.
There's other info out there as well.
Now develop from that.
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Heh, that blows a big hole in that theory, pretty much for the same reason that I figured there wouldn't be a common syntax in the Language Names.
The whole diplomacy through interpreters thing does lead to some interesting thoughts on why certain conflicts escalate.
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Gallente Ambassador : "And look forward to fostering a new era of peace and understanding with our Caldari Neighbours"
Interpreter to Caldari Ambassador : "He just implied that he wished to sleep with your Wife and your Sister"
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Ah, what fun. Like the time the US [insert title here] said that the russians were "out of sight and out of mind," meaning that we weren't concerned about them, and it was translated to the russians as "blind and therefor crazy." Oops.
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What? The translation systems are near-perfect and translate moods, accents, slang, whatever.
This, incidentally, is why I personally avoid all RP having to do with fanon languages. I also don't like needing a dictionary to RP with someone. (But if other folks enjoy it, more power to them - everybody has different preferences.)
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I'd prefer "Garounais" to "Gallentean" any day. And remember, the names of individual languages can be as varied as the number of foreign languages that have names for them.
I do too -- assuming Gallentean evolved directly from the language spoken by the Garouni, and not the ones spoken by the Lyaceans, Morthani, or whate'erTheHell other peoples were/are on Gallente Prime. :twisted:
That said, I use "Callenais" all the time (to denote a creole of Caldari dialects-Napanii-Gallentean dialects that evolved in border areas and worlds with heavy populations of both peoples).
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I think that "Caldanese" as a term might be influenced by Battletech's Swedenese (Rasalhagian Swedish-Japanese pidgin-turned-language). Of course, it likely loans a whole lot from Gallentean, though likely has been a target for national romantic rebuilding. I've used the rather utilitarian term "Standard Caldari (Language)" for the language. (I think Napanii would be akin to some kind of Deteis-Latin within the extended fiction.)
The Amarrian language, I think, is mostly called Amarrish, though an empire of that size would likely have several, with the Imperial language being the official one with other languages being regional ones. India might be an example here, with Hindi and English being common languages and then there being a number of other languages. There might be several languages used only for historical and religious research (compare to, say, Latin, Aramean, Ancient Greek...). One of these might even be the official Imperial language, even if not a word is seen outside Dam-Torsad and the only use would be giving out edicts and writing laws (with the text being immediately translated to modern Amarrish before being distributed).
Gallentean have, of course, Gallentean. And languages for each nationality, but Gallentean is likely the lingua franca (pun intended).
I don't really know about the Matari RP, but I think we had Word of God that most Minmatar can speak Amarrish, even if they might use it only after all other attempts at communicating have failed. I would expect that there's been a significant effort to revive old tribal languages similar to Hebrew revival.
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I don't really know about the Matari RP, but I think we had Word of God that most Minmatar can speak Amarrish, even if they might use it only after all other attempts at communicating have failed. I would expect that there's been a significant effort to revive old tribal languages similar to Hebrew revival.
It's slightly awkward referencing oneself, but here's How I play Matari languages... (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=2209.msg29297#msg29297).
Since EON published "True Line (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=1964.0)", Modern Standard Matari is now part of canon.
Edited for clarity: "... the existence of something that a Boundless Creation spaceship designer once called Modern Standard Matari is now part of canon". What MSM is and how it fits into things are both up for debate. The piece from me about Matari languages lays out how I think of it and what I intended, but has not, itself, been given the "EVE canon" imprimatur.
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If EON is canon then soft manipulation of Minmatari beliefs in slave populations through storytelling to enable controlling them is canon as well.
Also, Matari is purely player created term that was adopted by CCP.
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If EON is canon then soft manipulation of Minmatari beliefs in slave populations through storytelling to enable controlling them is canon as well.
During the process of publication Zapatero said that the things published in EON that went through the CCP approval process became canon. That did.
Also, Matari is purely player created term that was adopted by CCP.
I'm not sure I understand your point.
"Matari" has been used by CCP for a long, long time. It's in quite a wide range of chronicles (e.g. "War tattoos (http://community.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=mar04)" from March 2004), item descriptions and ship write-ups. However it started, it's very much a part of EVE canon.
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Also, Matari is purely player created term that was adopted by CCP.
Indeed it is, and I claim full credit! I was the first to employ that term in my earliest fiction, and it spread from there.