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[V. Gesakaarin]

Problem with both Prussian and Japanese models is that they involved large military aristocracies. I don't see that happening in Caldari the way it does in Amarr.

While I would agree the Caldari don't have an aristocracy they do have powerful shareholding Executive families that have a great deal of influence over the Megacorporations.

This might be a bit of supposition, but I've also sometimes seen the Deteis as being the de facto aristocracy or something a bit akin to the Prussian Junker class. Whilst they might no longer own land in a feudal society, the Caldari do impress a great deal of cultural conformity and the latent expectations for the Deteis in the State seems to be that they seek to fulfill Leadership roles in the State. The very racial description of the Deteis, if seen as the stereotype, is that they are expected to be ones who manage affairs, who become the managers, the executives, the officers and the General Staff.

Also, when looking at Caldari history when they went from a "Warlord era" when the Gallente implemented the Cultural Deliverance Society to a corporate society in a short amount of time, if those Warlords were say, a small military aristocracy of Deteis with a large soldiery of Civire then that same sort of dynamic might very well be a strong cultural trope remaining in the State: Deteis lead, and Civire follow orders.

It's also amusing when one considers that Tibus Heth was a Civire railing against the "corruption and nepotism" of an entrenched ruling class in State society and that those primarily opposed to him and responsible for his downfall were Deteis like Haatakan Oiritsuu, Admiral Yanala, and Mens Reppola.

It's also that for some reason it's just felt right even from my experiences in internal RP with Caldari: Veikitamo as a Deteis does the proper thing of seizing power and authority for the Greater Good, and the Civire like Desiderya and Pieter might have issues with her Machiavellan scheming at times but in the end that's just Caldari and the way things are done.

[Shiori]

Gallente have French naming habits, yet I see more people RP Gallente as moronic North American college bros rather than highly cultured socialites. [...]

To be fair, "north American college brah" is closer to real contemporary French culture than "highly cultured socialite."

[purple]

People keep using Finland as a comparison as if anyone actually knows what Finnish culture entails, lol. Okay, sure, I could do research,  but immediate thoughts are Moomins and Nightwish. Also, their education system is so laidback and egalitarian that wearing no shoes to class is pretty normal, never mind the fact there are no gifted schools in their system. Doesn't sound very Caldari to me.

Some random CCP dev from years ago word drops Finnish and Caldari in the same sentence, and since then we've heard Finnish mentioned continously. Okay, so there's the Winter War...what else? Finland is a historically insignificant country outside of the Second World War insofar that nobody knows dick about them other than the fact that they have a topnotch education system which is awesome to read on paper at least. I also know they stand like 50 metres apart waiting at bus stops. Sure, there are Finnish linguistic influences in Caldari naming schemes, but that doesn't mean anything. Gallente have French naming habits, yet I see more people RP Gallente as moronic North American college bros rather than highly cultured socialites. The Amarr have Arabic naming schemes, yet nobody has any interest in RPing Middle Eastern fancies. Not the right kind of foreign, maybe.

It would be much more useful to employ notable historical analogues like pre-1945 Germany, not some obscure country like Finland (I must be empathic about the fact that I am not trying to be offensive; ask someone from mainland China or midwestern US, mild chance that they would not have heard of this country). Anyway, yes, that would include fascism, but you can't build a compelling universe by being politically correct!

Also, yes, I would love to see someone take the romantic stuff of Japanese bushido and equally RP the war crime prone angle of it. Hey, the Gallente are all about peace and diplomacy right? Until they bomb the shit out of your homeworld.

You are such the perfect Gallentean RPer that you made a career out of telling the Caldari RPers how be proper Caldari.  I bet you don't even realize you do it even though that's the content of what must be something like 90% of your posts since joining the RP community.   The perfect Gallentean IC or OOC 

[V. Gesakaarin]

People keep using Finland as a comparison as if anyone actually knows what Finnish culture entails

Caldari share with the Finnish:

1. Snow

2. Double vowels

[Lyn Farel]

Gallente have French naming habits, yet I see more people RP Gallente as moronic North American college bros rather than highly cultured socialites. [...]

To be fair, "north American college brah" is closer to real contemporary French culture than "highly cultured socialite."

Depends of which culture we speak... Mass moronic culture probably, like everywhere else...

[Jace]

Back to the original notion of militarism itself, I think it is pretty safe to say that conflict is in and of itself an important part of Caldari culture. This naturally leads into a militaristic one, which I also agree it seems likely that it would permeate all strata of Caldari life to some extent. People always like to refer to the Patriots as the militaristic ones, but the PF does say that the Practicals were the most pro-Heth of the bunch.

And on the topic of the Way, there is only two significant sources we have to draw on - so there really isn't a defining connection. I've heard people go Taoism the most often because well, it's called the Way which is the most common translation of Tao. I've always thought of non-shrine Shinto, but either way, the Way goes a long way to showing itself as Eastern.

[orange]

What do people mean when they say militarism?  Are they referring to a structured/scheduled life-style? Warrior culture?  The references to historical examples have referenced both, but I think they are really separate concepts.

In the case of the whole of the Caldari State, I think the emphasis really would really be on the structured/scheduled life-style.  But within that is a subculture with a definitive warrior culture aspect in the Civire.

[V. Gesakaarin]

What do people mean when they say militarism?

I would say it means the importance of the military in the State and the impacts that has on Caldari culture, society, and outlook?

[Publius Valerius]

Im totally off topic now. But as I have read Junkers, Prussia and "moronic North American college bros" I have thought about the Khanid Kingdom  . I have worked on some fanficion on that topic. See here. My inspiration was here and of course more stuff: Like David Ricardo (see Economy of the Khanid Kingdom), Blade runner (love the two color vipe from the flick, as well as, I made the Kingdom a asian,central-asian typ majority state, aka Khanid are the largest bloodline)  etc....

If someone finds the time and read throught it (and give some feedback on the talkpage or here), it would be great.

- Culture of the Khanid Kingdom (music for reading: Cassius - Au Reve)
- The Dragoon (lore) (music for reading: Dead man)
- Context chart


As can be seen alot of stuff is still WIP. I hope I can finish it before the Source book comes out. Thats why Im happy for any help. As those pages have still alot of typos and "logical-" and "explaination-holes" (Lorem ipsum...). So If someone sees an error, he or she can of course rework the page (I havent log any of my pages) or post it here (I will doing most likely a new thread about that topic).


_______
Back to the topic. I actually have no deep opinion about the State or Fed or why and how the Caldari Militarism works. Both nations are for me "stylized versions" of reality (could make some long and broing post on some talk pages. But as the last time went so well *cough*.  See Khanid Kingdom debat, I save my time and put all my resource to fix the Kingdom). It is for me more the case of Ayn Rand fan meets John Rawls fan and hit with a stick on eachother. A topic where I stay away (could write a 500 page essay about that topic*just joking, but with alittle pit of true in it  ).

[V. Gesakaarin]

I really never saw most Caldari Executives or even Tibus Heth for that matter as John Galt or Howard Roarke type figures.

[Jace]

I really never saw most Caldari Executives or even Tibus Heth for that matter as John Galt or Howard Roarke type figures.

Yeah, it doesn't fit well at all. The entire point of Ayn Rand is extremist individualism. That has absolutely nothing to do with the Caldari.

[Publius Valerius]

I really never saw most Caldari Executives or even Tibus Heth for that matter as John Galt or Howard Roarke type figures.

I really never saw most Caldari Executives or even Tibus Heth for that matter as John Galt or Howard Roarke type figures.

Lol. Funny, that you two focus about my Ayn Rand comment, but totally dont care care that I call the State Fiction.   Unrealistic fiction to more clear. Thats why I think you will not find an answer, but nevertheless I would happy to proven to be wrong.

By the way I have said: I see "state and fed conflict" like "Ayn Rand and John Rawls conflict".
And I have reason to say it that way. 
Maybe I should said:
State-Prime-Fiction-errors are like those errors done by Ayn Rand*
Fed-Prime-Fiction-errors are like those errors done by John Rawls** in his works.

*Not that I would go so far like M. Friedman to call her stuff pseudoscience.
**Which is call a philospher and not political scientist for a good reason.
Edit: Sorry meant to say pseudophilosophy. My apologie to science  .

[V. Gesakaarin]

Lol. Funny, that you two focus about my Ayn Rand comment, but totally dont care care that I call the State Fiction.   Unrealistic fiction to more clear. Thats why I think you will not find an answer, but nevertheless I would happy to proven to be wrong.

Fiction can tend to be unrealistic and open to interpretation, that's why these discussions exist because there isn't exactly a wide body of work to get your citations from unlike in the real world.

[Publius Valerius]

Lol. Funny, that you two focus about my Ayn Rand comment, but totally dont care care that I call the State Fiction.   Unrealistic fiction to more clear. Thats why I think you will not find an answer, but nevertheless I would happy to proven to be wrong.

Fiction can tend to be unrealistic and open to interpretation, that's why these discussions exist because there isn't exactly a wide body of work to get your citations from unlike in the real world.

Sure, sure, sure as I said. Im happy to proven wrong, but I dont hold my breath. If someone finds a realistic and logical explanation about the "state of the state" and "state of the fed", Im the first how rolls with it.

[Lyn Farel]

I am confused...