Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: Silas Vitalia on 13 Jun 2012, 14:16
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I spend most of my time in low/null/wh, and I'm anywhere near Jita maybe only 3 or 4 times a year, so I haven't really kept up on the whole suicide ganking highsec thing.
Was hauling a 700m Dark Blood Tower (unused and leftover from my IC party) to sell back to Jita with a workhorse hauler alt, and of course went afk for a few minutes like 7 jumps out from Jita.
Apparently got cargo scanned in that timeframe, kept along my merry way and proceeded to be suicide blasted and robbed about 4 jumps from my destination.
One of those "alt-tabbed to look at something, alt-tabbed back" and I'm warping around in my pod for some reason kind of things. WTF says I? Ohhhhhh right, that's a thing people do out here. Damn.
Anyway thought I'd share. There's a noob born every minute and sometimes its me :)
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The only time I've ever been suicide ganked, I was hauling some BPC's for my CEO at the time (this was back before I was in Lonestar, which was not an RP corp). I got out my industrial ship, because I had some things of my own to haul and needed the space, but I didnt bother to tank it at all or if I did I had it fit with active tank.
And I get blown up one jump out of Amarr. And local starts filling up with screams of "Copies? What the fuck!"
I felt awful because it was about 200 million worth of BPC's, too and my CEO had given me the ISK to buy them. At that time, that was a lot of money for me because I mined
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Haha right on. It was less the money (which is still annoying), but more the 'how did I fall for -that- of all things?'
:)
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Oh, that was you going on and on about that in OOC last night! ;)
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Oh, that was you going on and on about that in OOC last night! ;)
Hah I forgot I was on the hauler alt! Yes that was me whining for a few minutes. 5 minutes later I was fine but that first few minutes it was more 'HULK SMASH' kind of thing :)
Losing expensive ships to pvp is something I'm accustomed to, getting violently knocked out of misplaced sense of safety quite another :)
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Was moving 500m worth of compressed arkonor to station with a base 50% refine instead of 25% refine in highsec. Went through Balle.
My greed was my downfall, not so much my ignorance, lesson learned lol.
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Been suicide ganked once on the hauler alt in Jita just after purchasing two logistics cruisers and fittings - I was not a happy camper, but it started my current and unwavering policy of always making my Jita purchases from several jumps out, and then waiting at least an hour from then before leaving Jita with the goodies.
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I'm not even going to bother with setting foot near that cesspool from now on. Blue Frog/Red Frog/whatever from here out.
Nothing makes you feel more puny than getting ganked in a non-pvp hauler character that now has useless kill rights :P
PS we need to be able to sell kill rights to other people.... what a great market sector THAT would be.
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Yeah, um. I learned about suicidde ganking the hard way - tried to fly an untanked industrial full of T2 frigates into Jita on the industrial alt. She has tanking skills now, and a Mastodon for those kinds of jobs..
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I had a guy pop my completely empty buzzard once. I guess the Covert Cloak that dropped was worth more than his t1 fit thrasher. Also, once I lost a Crane full of moon goo to a Gurista NPC because I fell asleep at the keyboard. :oops:
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I had a guy pop my completely empty buzzard once. I guess the Covert Cloak that dropped was worth more than his t1 fit thrasher. Also, once I lost a Crane full of moon goo to a Gurista NPC because I fell asleep at the keyboard. :oops:
I did laugh out loud at 'falling asleep at the keyboard' :) Nice one!
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Not been suicide ganked yet :3
Anything semi-valuable goes in Crane for transport though.
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Deep Space Transport with MWD+cloak.
Not foolproof, but close enough.
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my first suigank, I think I lost 300ish mil of moon goo. someone was selling cheap in amarr, so I was grabbing it there and taking it to jita. Made one trip, made some iskies, got nailed on the next trip. Actually saw it coming and somehow thought that having a corpy with me would somehow protect me. I was wrong. I was very suddenly down to 0 iskies and only the 80 mil in moon goo that I hadn't been able to fit in the ship.
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It could have been much worse, Silas.
You could have been transporting roughly 12b in PLEX in a rookie ship (http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13635693) .
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Hauled loads of T1 crap and some module BPC's worth about 50 mill around in an itty5 once and got it popped by a pair of drakes on a gate, then had the loot scooped by a waiting badger.
Fuckers lived in null too, ran back to get their standings back before I could even think of getting my PVP ship out to kill them on the gate again. Well, I had a form of revenge though - had some friends in another null-entity that lived nearby and one of them, on the question 'how are things' answered with 'slow and dull'. Ofc I go 'I happen to know some suicide-gankers who might enjoy losing a few ships while they rat their sec-ratings back up. Last I heard about that they roamed about a bit popped a few ships. I like to think the two drake-pilots who popped my itty5 lost far more than 50 mill worth of isk.
Only thing that annoys me with suicide-gankers is they are usually null-bears or otherwise near-untouchable. Hunting them down to murder them for their insult is most likely going to be a complete waste of time. Much like hunting down most non-honorable griefers who takes ransoms and pop your ship anyhow - I ran into that case once, and after investigating a little was told the perps were specific-job alts in an alt corp and would simply go log for weeks while mains play, to bore off any aggressors, and had done so a multitude of times. Another case where revenge is a waste of time :bash:
If you have the spine to attack those who can't - for the time being - stop you and take their stuff, it would be far more respectable to have the spine to take the consequences on the chin as well. Sadly most humans are cowardly assholes, and in EVE, avoiding them is an art most folks learn at cost.
The severe lack of revenge tales in this tread depresses me.
It could have been much worse, Silas.
You could have been transporting roughly 12b in PLEX in a rookie ship (http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13635693) .
See, when people profit from the super-stupidity of others I'd rather not congratulate them on their work - even as I laugh at the expense of said super-dumbass, they did not deserve nor earn a single one of those isk - they were just extremely lucky to deck the right corp, kill the right guy, at the right time, and loot the wreck before any random passers-by. Blind stupid luck should never be congratulated. Even if the black-humor in me thinks it was hilarious.
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More evidence that alts should be banned altogether, in their entirety : )
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More evidence that alts should be banned altogether, in their entirety : )
A cure worse than the disease!
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Never really got suicide ganked yet. Once I had a guy in a brutix that tried to suicide gank my datacores bustard in 0.5 BEFORE the CONCORD crackdown changes (it took them ages to pop in lowest high sec areas), but he failed, and I loled. However now, I am more cautious when hauling stuff.
More evidence that alts should be banned altogether, in their entirety : )
A cure worse than the disease!
Tbh I do not see why people need alts in a game where they can learn and do everything. Pretty hardcore on the liberties of everyone but well... Wouldnt make sense marketing wise either.
/me is thinking again like a dirty socialist.
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I think 'no alts' would only serve to enrich gameplay in significant ways. Your actions would actually have consequences, for good or bad. Would be very interesting and you'd have more legitimate 'criminal' organizations doing dirty work and sec status would mean something a bit more perhaps.
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I have a couple kill rights revenge tales, but I got those through playing logi in FW and getting kill rights off people. So those probably don't really count... Anyway, I made a point of always putting a decent tank on my Itty Vs and came back one day from autopiloting with about 20% armor damage; found out some brutix fail-ganked me. :lol: These days I either use an Orca (MWD ftw) or a BR to do the moving. It doesn't take too much work to rule yourself out as a target (low ISK value or too tanky). Maybe this has changed a bit with the newer BCs, but I don't know since I'm not in-game right now.
Done a decent amount of suicide ganking myself, both haulers and against missioners, but always on my main(s). It takes a lot of patience and definitely luck though, so I didn't do it super often. I think for many situations of null-sec denizens the complaint about people "avoiding the consequences" doesn't make much sense to me. Short version: If you live in null then you'd prefer to stay in null as much as possible except when needed to make money. It'd be terribly boring to stick around waiting for people to maybe take advantage of kill rights when you want to go back home to roam around null-sec. It isn't the case all the time of course, but yeah. vOv
...also as I found out a while ago it you can prey on suicide gankers as much as they prey on haulers. Ran into a guy a while ago that apparently does this all the time (found out after the fact, thanks guys :|) with a faction tanked hauler loaded with juicy things.
Tbh I do not see why people need alts in a game where they can learn and do everything. Pretty hardcore on the liberties of everyone but well... Wouldnt make sense marketing wise either.
Well, the easy answer here is capital ships; both in terms of sheer time to train up to them and the whole supercaps thing.
I think 'no alts' would only serve to enrich gameplay in significant ways. Your actions would actually have consequences, for good or bad. Would be very interesting and you'd have more legitimate 'criminal' organizations doing dirty work and sec status would mean something a bit more perhaps.
Fun to think about what the limitations that would impose on people would do for their choices. I wish there was some way to enforce it that actually worked, but I don't think there is one. I'm sure that CCP prefers people to maintain multiple accounts (encourages it even, with the power of 2) given the economic benefit for them too, so I don't see them going out of their way to do this anytime soon. :P
The one way to do it (on the small scale) would be to set it up as a challenge for yourself (kind of like hardcore mode in games like D2/D3) to see how you would play then. Maybe even try to make a sub-culture / community out of people who willingly play without alts. It would be an interesting experiment. I suspect the people involved would at least find themselves working together much more often than the typical EVE player. Tempting to try, I'd have to abandon a certain idea involving a rorqual base to really make it work for me though.
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Tbh I do not see why people need alts in a game where they can learn and do everything. Pretty hardcore on the liberties of everyone but well... Wouldnt make sense marketing wise either.
Well, the easy answer here is capital ships; both in terms of sheer time to train up to them and the whole supercaps thing.
I do not really see why with capital ships, that would actually mean that you need buddies when you want to move your capitals. Makes logistics more relevant.
For supercaps, yeah, I can see why it can get annoying. They can not dock... But actually, that would force people to keep an eye on them and actually take care of their "parking" locations when the pilot is out of them. That could greatly reduce the incentives to get a personnal supercap, and put supercaps back at a purely big alliance level.
I wish there was some way to enforce it that actually worked, but I don't think there is one. I'm sure that CCP prefers people to maintain multiple accounts (encourages it even, with the power of 2) given the economic benefit for them too, so I don't see them going out of their way to do this anytime soon. :P
Yes, it would be quite impossible to make sure that people do not use other accounts on a different ID/Visa. Though I do not think we can argue against the fact that not a lot of people could do that. Exceptions...
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I'll take "things that will never happen" for $800, Alex.
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I realize this post may not be welcome in a thread of complaints about being suicide-ganked, but have any of you stopped to look how fantastically profitable it's become? It's displaced corp theft as our preferred method of transferring stuff we want from wealthy strangers into our possession.
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I have looked at GH-SC's killboard recently for that exact reason and QQed because I spend all my time exploring and shit instead.
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I realize this post may not be welcome in a thread of complaints about being suicide-ganked, but have any of you stopped to look how fantastically profitable it's become? It's displaced corp theft as our preferred method of transferring stuff we want from wealthy strangers into our possession.
And this is basically my main issue.
Did you suicide-gank me for my stuff? Good one, you got me. Now be a good bitch and stick around long enough for me to eventually figure out how to get some revenge, a kill or two, or some inconvenience to you even. If you somehow accepted that there might be reactions and consequences for what you just did (and I'd have a realistic possibility to get 'even') I'd have no issue, absolutely no issue at all.
After all, these days I haul in BR's or via capital jumps, so it's not a problem for me avoiding ganks - my problem are the same kind of problem as the frigate-alt plexers in FW running from any confrontation and plexing while speed-tanking the rats like a road-runner on LSD is; major reward for next to no risk and ignorable chances of failure or retribution.
Gankers who flee for null and hide in their relatively safe space after sendign thier trade alts to Jita. . Gankers who are alts to begin with and log off for weeks at a time when decced. Can't touch the main, no idea who it is. Plexers who run from any danger, as stated, and if they lose their 100k ISK frigates get a new one and keep harvesting the major loyalty-point sources. Deck-avoiders who used deck-shield alliances or dropped corp at the mere mention of a war-deck. Botters who can't even be bothered to do the tedious work for their fucking ISK; These are all examples of what I'm talking about, even if some are less relevant now.
If your going to aim for the rewards in this game, you better be prepared to accept the possible risks of failure or set-back that follows. People who run the game of avoiding any back-lash with a zeal make this game really boring and essentially just boil it down to the fact I can't stand playing with them, at times I can't even stand the idea that I'm somehow playing the same game; It makes me feel like a complete moron at times that I'm accepting the risks that goes with whatever I do while others just skirt the issue entirely and make heap-loads of ISK while they go about their pathetic ways. If I wanted risk-less rewards and a huge heap of funds and nothing to spend it on because I was terrified of the idea of losing anything, I'd go play WoW again, join the Horde and enroll in some 1000 man raiding/battleground guild.
Finally to end the rant I think I can sum this up; EVE is supposedly a risk VS rewards game. Higher risk, higher reward. This does not hold true for the type of players that bore me to tears as mentioned above; they get loads of reward for entirely neglectable risk.
As for the issue with alts, if Alts were removed in total and anyone could have only one toon per character and only one account I'd instantly lose 4 out of 5 toons, 4 out of 5 accounts - CCP are not going to deny themselves 400 crowns worth of monthly subscription to do that, even IF they did there are ways to generate a new IP-adress and thus be a 'different' person ordering that second account. Not to easy by any means, but it can be done by the ones dedicated enough. You can't stop the meta-game, anymore than gank-bears will stop being gank-bears because their targets disagree with them.
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We gank with our mains, and labor honestly to build their sec status back up!
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And bless GH-SC for doing a damn fine job.
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It could have been much worse, Silas.
You could have been transporting roughly 12b in PLEX in a rookie ship (http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13635693) .
Or you could've been this guy (http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12389201). (cha-ching)
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Or you could've been this guy (http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12389201). (cha-ching)
wtf? lol. I've seen a bit about people getting blown up with plexes in the hold as a way to launder isk for RMTers, I'm assuming that doesn't apply to you guys, but even so. Even just the armor plates was asking for trouble.
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Or you could've been this guy (http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12389201). (cha-ching)
wtf? lol. I've seen a bit about people getting blown up with plexes in the hold as a way to launder isk for RMTers, I'm assuming that doesn't apply to you guys, but even so. Even just the armor plates was asking for trouble.
I think CCP is aware that we don't need to buy ISK, since we're quite proficient at getting it for free by force or guile, and that large amounts of money transfer between our members are pretty much status quo. I'm not joking when I say my wealth is effectively infinite - there's always more to steal should I need more, and I haven't needed more for a loooooong time.
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My first rule of thumb is the one about value of cargo versus the cost to gank. My second... I must have this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tuvz_9D7Ok) saved to my in-game browser so I can link it into local if I run into trouble when flying a freighter. <.<
Going after obvious Gankadoes sitting still off of gates with a little swarm of Thrashers is amusing, too.