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[Katrina Oniseki]

A while ago, I remember seeing one character hurl a glass at another character's head. The victim accepted the post by having the glass smash into their head, and did not reply in kind. While eating my peanut butter and jelly sandwich, I got to thinking, because PB&J is the best fuel for such thinking. What if the victim had replied differently?

Before we go any further, let's be clear about a few things:

* The Rules of Godmodding were followed. Only an attempt at violence was posted.
* The Rules of the Channel were followed. No firearms or traditional weapons were used. Only a drink glass.
* The Rules of Realism were followed. No hyper-velocity throwing arms or super accurate aim was posted. Only a drunken throw.


This is a fairly realistic start of what could be an accurate portrayal of a bar fight. Someone throws a glass, and a shitstorm ensues.

When non-fatal bar violence is (seemingly?) randomly inflicted or attempted, what is an appropriate violent response? In reality, bar fights can get very messy very quickly, but unlike fantasy, they don't often end up with fatalities. In fact, most Bar Brawlers are unable to aim properly because they're piss drunk. Yes, even trained soldiers. Gruesome injuries are to be expected, often in a myriad of embarrassing or entertaining ways. Let's take a look at some of the realistic and fantasy weapons used.

Realism Weapons:
Fists and feet
Teeth
Beer Bottles as BLUNT OBJECTS ONLY
Nearby Cutlery
Furniture and various decor as largely ineffective blunt objects. Either difficult to lift or not very dangerous.

Fantasy Weapons:
Conveniently Broken Beer Bottles
Conveniently Lightweight Furniture
Firearms
Knives
Combat Implants
Kung-Fu
Plot Devices

... and now a look at the injuries:

Realism
Minor injuries (Bruises, lacerations, abrasions, punctures)
Broken nose
Concussion
Blood loss
"Unexpected Amputation" (ears, fingers, etc)
People usually end up either completely incapacitated OR relatively unharmed.
Some fractured bones, typically bones in the hand or in extreme cases a long bone, rib, or skull.

Fantasy
Crushed skulls
Multiple Broken/Shattered bones
Instant MurderDeathKill
Explosions
Tenth Degree Burns and Vaporization of entire extremities OMG
People surviving but only just barely, despite multiple gruesome and near fatal injuries.
Superheroes Immune To All Damage

So let's say your character is attacked in a bar as started in the above post. Let's also assume for a moment that your character is going to fight back. How do they react? Do they get up and start trying to swing? Do they attempt to smash a beer bottle for a cool improvised weapon? Do they pull out a knife that you [didn't] acknowledge the presence of when entering the channel?

What is the proper way to respond when your character is unexpectedly attacked in the bar, though not in a way that god-mods your character?

EDIT: I should point out that when someone pulls a gun and starts shooting in a bar fight, the fight is over real fucking quick, because everyone else without a gun is trying to GTFO before they get shot, and those who do get shot are not getting back up unless they're on meth. Alcohol is not superhero juice.

[Saede Riordan]

Always go for the bar stool.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Always go for the bar stool.

Most bar stools I have seen are either bolted to the floor or just plain unwieldy. Not very useful, imo. Though if we were to differentiate between the two categories:

Realistic Sitting/Assault Device:
Spend seven seconds trying to lift and get a solid grip on the damn thing, swing and miss (and lose balance quickly because you're drunk), or throw it not as far as you thought it would go and miss (because you're drunk). If successful throw, it probably knocks the other guy over, or doesn't do much of anything. Headshots are ridiculously rare, because of raised-arms reflex.

Fantasy Sitting/Assault Device:
Lift it quickly and easily, and swing it by the legs for wrecking damage, knocking the other guy off his feet or shattering the guy's jaw/ribs. A throw is super effective, and can even attain headshots. Broken bones are to be expected. Loss of balance when swinging/throwing despite being boozed is a sign of incompetence and is almost never depicted.

[Samira Kernher]

If she has it, Samira typically goes for her pocket knife. Whether or not she has it depends on the bar... she's not going to have access to it in a place that screens all guests, but will in a place that doesn't. Either way, I prefer playing the more realistic angle of a drawn weapon being more for threat of force than for actual force. Samira draws her knife, swings it threateningly in front of her, and backs away while hoping that whoever is attacking will back off. Actual stabbings would only happen if they ignored the warnings and tried to advance anyway.

Of course, reaching for her knife is a challenge in itself. It's something I prefer using two or more emotes for to represent the fact that drawing or finding a weapon in a mess of other things while you are actively being threatened is actually hard. In the one actual fight she's had so far, Samira had her purse pulled away from her while she was digging around in it, and then had her own knife pulled on her by the assailant. Because that's a realistic outcome of trying to use lethal weapons--the possibility of your assailant getting yours and using it on you.

If she doesn't have it then she's likely to go for an improvized weapon with similar goals. A bottle, plate, fork, whatever's nearby that she can hold out in front of her and swing threateningly in the hopes that the enemy backs away.

Samira's reactions are all about keeping herself safe, rather than 'winning'. If someone's attacking her, what she wants to do is get them to stop and get away.


Now, if I were playing a more aggressive character, I typically prefer to go by 'no-escalation' rules. That is, don't do anything bigger than what was done to you. A punch gets responded with a punch, not a gun, and so on. And as I don't care about winning, if my character is drunk then I respond accordingly with their attacks. How the fight will actually go varies depending on the scene and what prompted it and so on, but on characters that actually fight back I typically try to avoid escalating things just to one-up the other party. It should be about the RP, not about winning. Whenever I do pull out lethal weapons, even on aggressive characters, 9 times out of 10 I prefer using them for threat of force rather than actual force (unfortunately, a lot of RPers ignore threat of force, thinking that when someone points a gun at them and tells them to fuck off that they should just charge anyway and superman dodge the bullet...). IMO the RP has gone very wrong if you ever have to actually use lethal force.

[V. Gesakaarin]

I find such things a bit silly, so I'll do an equally silly thing like just drop a secret thermal smoke bomb and flashbang then exit stage right like a fucking ninja.

Unless I have a private convo open with the other player regarding the space fighting with emotes.

[Vic Van Meter]

I find such things a bit silly, so I'll do an equally silly thing like just drop a secret thermal smoke bomb and flashbang then exit stage right like a fucking ninja.

Unless I have a private convo open with the other player regarding the space fighting with emotes.

^ Yeah, probably this.

I have characters in other games and settings that don't mind slapping around in a bar fight, but it's REALLY annoying when you're having a good time and someone interjects by doing something both maddeningly stupid and utterly unignorable.

[Katrina Oniseki]

So, roleplay warp stabs aside, for those of us more willing to engage in plausible violence - how would you respond?

[Erys Charantes]

A bit nebulous in this setting, really. Hitting a capsuleer could result in anything from a fight to getting shot by bodyguards.  Hitting a Duster as anything but another Duster will likely result in a one sided and very painful, if quick, death in response, if anyone bothers to keep the "reality" of things in mind.

Personally, I refuse to take part in RP fights that arent cleared or discussed beforehand.  My response to unsolicited fights is either simply reject the notion out of hand (i have no obligation to accept your reality unless agreed upon), or post a simple response as I see fit, then do the same.  RP elements are fine with me, some fool trying to show how "badass" their character is, is not.  Thats what space is for.

That said, Erys typically has her bodyguard with her in public places who handles such issues, as well as competent training of her own to fall back on.  Her preference is either a Nova knife, or a snub nose heavy blaster.  Saya is likely to get knocked on her butt in a melee, since her brawling abilities are currently negligible, and she's aware of this.  Normally, she'd simply resort to her sidearm immediately if assaulted, which is out in the open on her hip anywhere she doesn't feel at ease enough to not carry it.  I've only got one other character, used as an "actor" for RP, so fights there are preplanned and consensual only.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I was going to clarify my question again, but on second consideration... the question itself is pretty worthless and doesn't even deserve a thread. Should have simply been asked in a live conversation.

So, nevermind. Make of this remaining thread what you will, folks.

[BloodBird]

So, roleplay warp stabs aside, for those of us more willing to engage in plausible violence - how would you respond?

Well, BB is a fan of personal enhancements, like most I assume. His skull a somewhat thicker than most, so in the case of the thrown glass you provided, depending on who it is, he might just wonder what the hell it was for. After all most capsuleers are filthy rich and is should be expected that they can and will have similar enhancements as he does. That makes starting fights somewhat stupid and pointless to begin with and investing time in retaliating equally pointless.

So he might turn around and check to see who threw the glass, or made a threat or whatever, and the do something a bit arrogant, like inquire what that throw/whatever was even for. Assuming he get's time and can do so ofc, if the original attack is followed up with a direct charge he'd have to defend himself while trying to get the hell out of dodge fast. He has better things to do than get involved in a bar melee, especially with another arrogant enhanced and likely completely wasted post-human.

So the event might spark off some IC banter that may or may not be friendly and disarming or crude and pointed while he decides of it's worth it to stick around in a place he hardly EVER goes to (bars and other drinking dens) anyway. Likely he'd just say fuck it, and check himself out. Getting stuck into bar fights is a bit underneath him, to be honest. Especially seeing as he don't normally drink and even keeps a memento to remind himself not to, so whatever other errand he had is not likely to be worth the uncivilized entanglement...

TL:DR: Check situation, then defense if needed followed by GTFO-ASAP unless the situation clears up and cools very fast.

[Silas Vitalia]

In some Sabik sects I imagine "the throwing of objects with intent to injure" constitutes making a pass at someone.


If it's the right capsuleer I suppose S. would agree to some form of 'dinner and a movie'

If it's the wrong capsuleer then she smiles and leaves the establishment, then has that capsuleer's baseliner family and friends impaled and mailed to the offending capsuleer in tiny pieces every few months for a few years.

[Katrina Oniseki]

In some Sabik sects I imagine "the throwing of objects with intent to injure" constitutes making a pass at someone.


If it's the right capsuleer I suppose S. would agree to some form of 'dinner and a movie'

I love you. I cannot stop laughing.

[orange]

Civire Bear Hug!  Because when a Civire is drunk, the best way to stop the Deteis is to hug her.  This has the added benefit of allowing the Civire to head-butt the offending Deteis* should the Deteis decide that the next round isn't on her!

*Civire foreheads are thicker than Deteis noses.

This same logic is applied to most other opponents.  Other Civire (and probably Brutor) require a different tactic, but a Civire (and I would assume Brutor) would not be such a weasel as to throw a glass across the bar.

[V. Gesakaarin]

Civire Bear Hug!  Because when a Civire is drunk, the best way to stop the Deteis is to hug her.  This has the added benefit of allowing the Civire to head-butt the offending Deteis* should the Deteis decide that the next round isn't on her!

*Civire foreheads are thicker than Deteis noses.

Now we know the real reason why Tibus Heth became a forklift driver. He got drunk and tried the good old bear hug and headbutt on the Deteis Executive, only to wake up the next morning in a filthy cell hungover, demoted in position, fifteen pending fines, numerous black marks on their permanent records, and countless statements from his co-workers that he's of dubious character and lacking in the requisite honor to be a Home Guard Officer.

The New Meritocracy was really Tibus Heth mad he got drunk one night then got dunked by the Deteis bureaucratic mandarins with all that power.

[Elmund Egivand]

First, assess the situation and locate clear route of escape, or failing that, clear route to the janitor's closet. If there are no clear escape routes or routs to janitor's closet, determine extent and nature of resistance.

Second, divert aggression of patrons to the offending subject, or, if not possible, throw the glass and the bottle at his head.

Three, take advantage of distraction and chaos and make for the escape route. Or the janitor's closet.

Four, if forced to make for the janitor's closet, obstruct the door and other possible entryway with heavy objects, which the closet should have many. Then determine presence of ventilation ducts and ease of grill removal. Escape through ducts if possible. Otherwise, take inventory of janitor's closet and identify cleaning agents and cleaning tools.

Five, improvise a flamethrower, a long, burning torch and explosives, if required. Clear path to escape route.