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EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Valdezi on 08 Nov 2010, 05:41
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In a conversation with my esteemed colleagues Altarr Orkot and Sanya of I-RED while on a Syndicate roam, the topic of pronunciation came up.
While on Vent, reporting the names of ships, places and stations you end up hearing a myriad of different pronunciations and I was wondering what people thought about some.
The way I see it, the pronunciations fit into two categories, things from Earth whose pronunciations are verifiable (Zealot, Abaddon, Lachesis, etc) and made up words (Ishukone, Intaki, Gallente)
The first ones annoy me when people get them wrong (I'm an English pedant, comes with my job), the second I'm just curious about.
This, for example is how I'd pronounce the following words:
Ishukone - Ish-u-kon-e. (Yeah I'd pronounce the 'e' on the end. Makes it sound more Japanesey Caldari. However many of the players who fly with I-RED (US based for the most part) pronounce it Ish-u-kone to rhyme with stone. This seems stupid to me, but it's a made up word, so whatever)
Intaki - In-taak-i. (Long A sound. Seems obvious)
Gallente - Gall-ent-ay (Pronounce the e, like a french word. When people say the word like Gall-ent, or even Gall-ent-i, it hurts me)
With all the Gallente systems I try to pronounce them as if they were French words, so using French inflections. However, my second language is German, so I'm probably doing it wrong.
What do others think? Do people see some of these pronunciations differently?
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Ishukone : Ish-ew-ko-ne
Intaki : In-tah-kee
Gallente : Guh-len-tay
American Midwest here, so make of it what you will.
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Gallente is pronounced in a few trailers, I think that's mostly okay...
Just want to know how to pronunce "Oicx" :S
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Intaki : In-tah-kee
American Midwest here, so make of it what you will.
I'm from the same region and pronounce it the same way.
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To use the first few examples:
Ishukone: ish-u-kone-e (the 'e' being pronounced as in the German word 'Sonne', for example, a sort of 'uh' sound)
Gallente: guh-len-tay
Intaki: inn-tak-ee (short 'a', unlike the long 'a' other people seem to use... but I'm from a region of the UK that usually clips its vowels short anyway)
Oicx: wahss
More generally, I tend towards some kind of French-meets-German scheme for Gallente systems, pronounce every letter in Caldari systems (Uedama is U-ey-deh-ma, for example), something vaguely Scandinavian for Minmatar stuff and a bastardised version of Germanic Latin for Amarr systems.
I think. I've never paid much attention to it until now. >_>
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Well, I think Gallente systems aren't pronounced so much in a "French fashion", but simply a West European, Romantic way...English and French are apart of the same 'language' group.
Also want to crush 'lolfrench' stuff... >_>
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Gallente - Gall-ent-ay (Pronounce the e, like a french word. When people say the word like Gall-ent, or even Gall-ent-i, it hurts me)
If you think it should have some french pronunciation shouldn't that apply to all of it? So more like "gal-awnt" or "gaul-awnt"?
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Well, I think Gallente systems aren't pronounced so much in a "French fashion", but simply a West European, Romantic way...English and French are apart of the same 'language' group.
English is a Germanic language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language), despite getting an infusion of vocabulary from Norman French.
I agree that I tend to think of Gallentean as a Romance language, but I throw a modicum of Italian in there to make things like the three-syllable pronunciation of 'Gallente' stick. I'd expect a French pronunciation to be two syllables, and although I've heard recordings of a couple of people saying "Gah-LENT" those are rare exceptions.
I note that -- despite its support in the race write-ups (http://eveonline.com/races/gallente.asp) -- the term Gallentean is only rarely used. I tend to use it for the language, but in most circumstances when I want an adjective I use "Gallente". (This is not at all like the rancour over "Caldarian".)
I'd pronounce Oicx as "Oicks". If I ever maneuvre a fleet I'm tempted to adopt a convention of pronouncing every vowel as an open vowel: Teonusude as Teh-on-oo-soo-deh, for instance. And whoever put Anher and Arnher so close together, both with gates off Evati, was playing a cruel joke.
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As someone who speaks English, Spanish, and German fluently, I know your pain Mam.
You would think that Gallente would be pronounced correctly, what with the obvious French influence. But nooooooooooooooooooooo
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And whoever put Anher and Arnher so close together, both with gates off Evati, was playing a cruel joke.
Especially because one of them is lowsec, and the other is highsec. AND YOU CAN NEVER TELL WHICH ONE. :cry:
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Ah yes, Matariki, thanks for correcting me.
I think overall with the "Gallente = French" thing is that the old stuff refers to French from the 71st century. Current French demographics include Eastern Europeans, Sub-Saharan Africans and Arabians. Though, I think when CCP originally made the Gallente, they were probably like "Yeah, the white French"...horrible foresight, and initial cultural/racial ignorance from CCP who are Icelandic (couldn't make the Caldari East Asian looking because they couldn't nail the design)
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Ah yes, Matariki, thanks for correcting me.
I think overall with the "Gallente = French" thing is that the old stuff refers to French from the 71st century. Current French demographics include Eastern Europeans, Sub-Saharan Africans and Arabians. Though, I think when CCP originally made the Gallente, they were probably like "Yeah, the white French"...horrible foresight, and initial cultural/racial ignorance from CCP who are Icelandic (couldn't make the Caldari East Asian looking because they couldn't nail the design)
I guess the Académie française became super-powerful and had a long, long reign :P
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Ishukone - Ish-u-kon-e. (Yeah I'd pronounce the 'e' on the end. Makes it sound more Japanesey Caldari. However many of the players who fly with I-RED (US based for the most part) pronounce it Ish-u-kone to rhyme with stone. This seems stupid to me, but it's a made up word, so whatever)
The Caldari Language I tend to selfishly go pronouncing as Finnish most of the time since CCP has said it's a mix of Finnish and Japanese and the pronunciation ain't actually all that different when I read Japanese written in romaji. Like with Ishukone I do pronounce the 'e' at the end.
I-shu-ko-ne - but note that in Finnish pronunciation you also say letters drastically different than in English.
I dunno if CCP made it intentional or was it just accident that Ishukone has the Finnish word 'machine' in it since they do make heavy machinery amongst other things. Ishu-Machine Corporation :D
Intrestingly as Seriphyn mentions the design... Deteis have very Finnish look about them, to a degree so do some of the Civire, but Deteis more so.
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And whoever put Anher and Arnher so close together, both with gates off Evati, was playing a cruel joke.
Especially because one of them is lowsec, and the other is highsec. AND YOU CAN NEVER TELL WHICH ONE. :cry:
We've had people jump into Minmatar highsec because of this.
Anyhow... you can get some pretty wide variations in pronunciations. For instance, I'm in the "In-tah-kee" crowd, but would pronounce Teonusude "Tee-ohn-oh-sood". Similarly, almost everyone I know pronounces Amamake as "Ah-mah-mah-kee", but there's someone in the Amarr Militia who pronounces it as "Ay-may-may-keh". This led to a long silence, followed by a couple of confused calls of "What?" the first few times he did it.
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Ish-uk-kone is how I pronounce it, but I tend to miss pronounce things on a regular basis.
I did check up on it and its similar to what the SCOPE Trailer pronounces it when the Wandering Saint hits the station.
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With Amarrian things and Caldari things you can probably go with the latin pronunciation.
Amarrians use Latin for religious purposes so I would think that there is some of that in the phonetics of the language, while the finnish written language was cooked up by a finnish scribe working in Germany and translated the Bible straight to finnish with the latin phonetics (or whatever you call them.)
So Caldari and Amarrian, Latin/Finnish.
Gallente do have finnish system names like Mies (Man) and loads of other stuff so I doubt there is rules that apply to the pronunciation of the Gallentean stuff across the board.
Minnies, they would probably go with the slavic/swedish way of pronunciation with things, the CCP are icelandic so you might get a clue from that direction.
So forget about english, forget about American, none of the nations in the EVE cluster have anything to do with those two languages. Except the Jovians.
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Well, there's a lot of intermingling between the British and French nowadays...
Regarding Latin, that's all very interesting...Gallente NPC names are Latin/Greek, with Roman name schemes, such as Praktor Legionarius and Praktor Centurion, Arx, etc....
It's all so mixed up that I think it's difficult to just go "this is that"
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I still want to say "Gah-YEN-teh".
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And whoever put Anher and Arnher so close together, both with gates off Evati, was playing a cruel joke.
Especially because one of them is lowsec, and the other is highsec. AND YOU CAN NEVER TELL WHICH ONE. :cry:
We've had people jump into Minmatar highsec because of this.
We're now very careful to distinguish then, which leads to FCs delivering wonderfully rolled 'r's in "ARRRnher: A-R-N-H-E-R" and "Anher: A-N-H-E-R".
Anyhow... you can get some pretty wide variations in pronunciations. For instance, I'm in the "In-tah-kee" crowd, but would pronounce Teonusude "Tee-ohn-oh-sood". Similarly, almost everyone I know pronounces Amamake as "Ah-mah-mah-kee", but there's someone in the Amarr Militia who pronounces it as "Ay-may-may-keh". This led to a long silence, followed by a couple of confused calls of "What?" the first few times he did it.
Well, Teonusude is 'Teon' for practical use and 'Teon:-you-are-so-very-huge,-we-are-overwhelmed-by-your-greatness,-ommm' for laughs and as a metaphor for anything... generously-sized. Crossing Teon isn't as bad as bunny-hopping across OJOS-T, but it's something we do a lot more often.
In a previous life I've known a fleet to sit around for a discussion of how to pronounce "Madirmilire".
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I used to have Arvo for this sort of thing :(
Me: "Fleet, align Vvvvvil..." *throat clear* "Veler...verlah..ver... Damn it! Fleet, align Vehlalalalarurer...er....for fuck sake Arvo tell them to align to the V one!"
Arvo: "Fleet align Vlillirier"
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Most fleets I've been flying through Oicx with have called it "Oink".
Gallente do have finnish system names like Mies (Man) and loads of other stuff so I doubt there is rules that apply to the pronunciation of the Gallentean stuff across the board.
And here I thought 'Mies' came from somebody at CCP's being an architecture fan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Mies_van_der_Rohe). ;)
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Ive always pronounced "Oicx" as Oicks whether thats right or not I have no idea. As for some of the other system names that make my head hurt just thinkig about I just broadcast in fleet.
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Like Lallara noted (and others too), for Caldari and Amarr the Classical Latin or Finnish pronunciation works quite fine. (The only difference is stress, which in Finnish is always in the beginning of the word, but varies in Latin.) Any other language with 1:1 correspondence between written characters and spoken sounds would work, too.
So yes, I do also pronounce I-shu-ko-ne. Kaa-la-ki-o-ta. Su-kuu-ves-taa.
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/finnish.pronunciation.html
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I say "Gallent" with the emphasis on the e. I don't pronounce the last e because there's no accent, but I'm not sure if I'm being too pedantic expecting that kind of thing.
With Sinq Laison I seem to split French and English pronunciation by saying Sank Laison (as opposed to the all French Sank Laiso (that o being a flat vowel as in 'bot') not pronouncing the final consonant.
I also say Ishukone with a cone on the end...
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Not having a clue how the Finnish language is spoken, I always default to the Japanese pronunciation of Caldari words as they would be handled in their romanized form, or roomaji.
(BTW, double vowels are given double length, therefore the 'oo' is a drawn out 'oh' instead of the sound in the word 'who'. Thus roomaji is "rohh-mah-jee" or "lohh-mah-jee" as r and l are indistinguishable to native Japanese).
In the roomaji system, Ishukone, would be vocalized "ee-shoo-koh-neh", and each syllable given equal emphasis. Jumping back into the wilds of RP, the beauty of the universe is surely that local dialects must abound, so I enjoy when things are pronounced differently than how I would figure. Thus, "Ish-uk-kone" is another great way to say it, especially when it is how the CEO does it. ;)
PS. Bureeiku is the phonetic translation of Blake into roomaji, see Gairaigo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gairaigo) for more.
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Caldari names pronounced as if they were Japanese in romaji comes pretty close to Finnish, apart from emphasis.
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Does anyone care to give "Hyasyoda" a go?
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(Excellent necro, BTW. Seriously.)
I think of it as "high-as-Yoda". I imagine the green Jedi master on LSD.
It would explain a lot.
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Does anyone care to give "Hyasyoda" a go?
Personally, I think Hyasyoda sounds best if you break it as such: Haj-a-sajj-oda
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It liiiiives
I
I gotta agree with the high-as-yoda pronunciation, thats just how 've always seen it.
I gotta say, the most irritating thing I've ever had was someone who called the Bhaalgorn the Barrelgorn and pronounced the CH in Machariel with the CH sound instead of the K sound.
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Oh just came into that thread. To correct a few things that were said above, if you want to pronounce "gallente" the french way, the 'e' is not pronounced, or barely. It is pronounced "Gah-lɑ̃-t", the ɑ̃ being a specific sound only found in french (I think).
Oicx would be pronounced "Wuh-a-cs". Same for Weraroix.
Though I myself pronounce gallente in an italian fashion.
Sinq Laison is just dumb pronounced in french ("Sɛ̃k Lai-zɔ̃" -> 2 specific french sounds), I pronounce it in english. Honestly, pronouncing gallente terms in french is a pain in the ass, it does not always fit the language well.
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I've been trying to mash Hyasyoda down into two syllables, something like "Hyahs-yoda" with a hard "H" up front and the aforementioned jedi master at the end. Hi-as-yoda works too.
Everytime I see this name I will now have a mental image of Yoda handing Luke a joint. "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'". :)
Personally, I think Hyasyoda sounds best if you break it as such: Haj-a-sajj-oda
The j's in this would be pronounced like you would in "jut" or "juice"? I remember seeing somewhere that phonetic spellings can be quite different depending on where you're from, just making sure.
I gotta say, the most irritating thing I've ever had was someone who called the Bhaalgorn the Barrelgorn and pronounced the CH in Machariel with the CH sound instead of the K sound.
Unfortunately, my brain has turned "Machariel" into "Mackerel".
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Rodj would probably argue that the correct way to pronounce Gallente is as "degenerate perverts" ;)
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Personally, I think Hyasyoda sounds best if you break it as such: Haj-a-sajj-oda
The j's in this would be pronounced like you would in "jut" or "juice"? I remember seeing somewhere that phonetic spellings can be quite different depending on where you're from, just making sure.
Phonetic /j/ (yes, yacht), so not /dʒ/ (juice, jam, giant)
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Could somebody help me here? :oops:
I sort of named myself after the Myyhera system but I have no idea how to pronounce a double 'y'. Is there even a real world language that uses double 'y'?
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Could somebody help me here? :oops:
I sort of named myself after the Myyhera system but I have no idea how to pronounce a double 'y'. Is there even a real world language that uses double 'y'?
The way I think Finnish does it is with a syllable break. Myyhera would have a syllable break between "My" and "Yhera"
Similarly, Myyona would be split into "My" and "Yona". "Yona" would likely be pronounced more like the word "ion" than "yoda"
Keep in mind that approaching this with a somewhat English pronunciation will simply butcher the vowel sounds.
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A lot of pronounciations would depend on how J and Y were pronounced - given that the Caldari language is clearly based partly on Finnish, Jita is actually probably "Yee-tah", and any system with a Y in its name will have an odd "oe" sound that doesn't appear in English.
Try and wrap your tongues around Vlillirier. Vincent will remember the times back in 2008 we used to go out on roams with the rest of the militia, and I, as FC, would spend five minutes telling people to align to Vluh... Vlilllil... Vlurrll... and then Kringlebageren would play the Murloc sound from World of Warcraft :lol:
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lol, I don't have this problem with Vlillirier, but I understand why it can be annoying to pronounce. :p
Ive had a lot of trouble with Hofdjalgund. I think I have approximately mastered it for all these years spent near Auga, but what the hell...
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In gallente space, you should keep in mind that you cannot use french as a key on how to pronunciate the names.
Mainly because the Federation is what it is.
A collection of different cultures.
Hence the different system names should be pronunciated in the way that the culture does which named it.
For example, Mies. Finnish word for man. Clearly you pronunciate it the Caldari way.
Same for all the system names that seem 'oriental'.
Because there was no Jin-Mei when the systems were named.
One thing about double vowels, or in case of double y in Myyhera.
You do not break the word into two pieces, you just lengthen the vowel.
If you want to break it in two, its Myy-hera.
In finnish, each and every letter has a specific way to pronunciate it that does not change, ever.
That is where the finnish accent tends to come from.
We read the letters, not the words.
Little bit of something to twist your tongue around.
A like a in father.
B like a b in bee.
C can be a K or an S.
D like a d in Dumb.
E like ea in feather.
F like f in FFFUUUU.
G like g in grand.
H like h in happy.
I like e in evil.
J like the start of u in use.
K like c in cat.
L like l in laughter.
M like m in mill.
N like n in nill.
O like o in pole.
P like p in pie.
Q like ummm, eh, there is no finnish words with the letter.
It's just there because of the Latin origins of the finnish written language.
R like dr lengthened in drop.
S like s in suppose.
T like t in tap.
U like the double oo in soon.
V like v in venus.
W is a double v in finnish, sometimes its used like a u.
X combination of k and s.
Y like ... uhhh, I don't think it is used in english at all. Here (http://www.forvo.com/search/syy/)'s a finnish word with a double y
Z like z in a zap.
Å like O.
Ä like a in flap.
Ö like, something thats not in english either. Like oe in Boehm. (http://www.forvo.com/word/boehm/)
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Where I live, people in two different areas speaking the same language often pronounce the same word completely differently due to accents. I imagine the difference would be even greater when the same language is spoken on two different planets
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Where I live, people in two different areas speaking the same language often pronounce the same word completely differently due to accents. I imagine the difference would be even greater when the same language is spoken on two different planets
Quiet Kaz, we view the empires as homogenized masses, remember?
lol, I don't have this problem with Vlillirier, but I understand why it can be annoying to pronounce. :p
Ive had a lot of trouble with Hofdjalgund. I think I have approximately mastered it for all these years spent near Auga, but what the hell...
I think we usually shortened that to “Hof-jobble-gobble”, something like “hof” plus the sound a turkey makes. It worked well enough on the fly.
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lol, I don't have this problem with Vlillirier, but I understand why it can be annoying to pronounce. :p
Ive had a lot of trouble with Hofdjalgund. I think I have approximately mastered it for all these years spent near Auga, but what the hell...
I think we usually shortened that to “Hof-jobble-gobble”, something like “hof” plus the sound a turkey makes. It worked well enough on the fly.
Hof-jald-gund
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In finnish, each and every letter has a specific way to pronunciate it that does not change, ever.
Like in most languages I think. Or at least, all the latin originated languages.
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I speak fluent Spanish, and while that's true in general, it has exceptions (such as "g" and "c"). I don't believe that that holds true for French, either, though I'm no Francophone.
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I speak fluent Spanish, and while that's true in general, it has exceptions (such as "g" and "c"). I don't believe that that holds true for French, either, though I'm no Francophone.
Pretty much. In Spanish, say, 'gato' against 'gente' (with 'gato' being a hard 'g' similar to 'gate' or whatever in English, and 'gente' being more of a rough 'h' sound).
French is similar. 'm' and 'n' can either be comparable to their use in English -- 'madame', say -- or more nasal vowels, like in 'un' or 'embouteillage'. The latter word there in itself points to something else; French is big on diphthongs which kind of get in the way of it all being pronounced the same way. 'e', 'eu', and 'eau' sound pretty different to any other combinations of those vowels, for example.
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A lot of the Amarr Militia just sticks to "Hof" (pronounced "Hauf"). Everbody knows what we mean, and no orders get mangled by unfortunate tongue-ties. :P
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I speak fluent Spanish, and while that's true in general, it has exceptions (such as "g" and "c"). I don't believe that that holds true for French, either, though I'm no Francophone.
Yes of course.
Though putting aside the crapload of exceptions that come from the old french, every diphtong remains the same and follow the same rules. As for m or n, if you take it in the case of "un" or "bonbon", they are not "n" and "m" anymore, but a new combination that create a whole new diphtong.
So well yes, I misread in the first place and thats not a matter of letter that do never change, but a matter of diphtongs and combinations. Which is still isn't the case in english, for example, where every pronounciation is totally independant of the spelling without apparent rules.