Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: Seriphyn on 23 Mar 2012, 11:21
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OK, not sure where to put it, so I put it here.
Racial mixing is an awesome idea. Showed a Sebiestor being cycled through mixing with the various other bloodlines at a 60:40 ratio. VERY neat.
However, it's only been 15 minutes, but trying to get my head around for having all skin tones available for all races. They had a white Brutor and...I don't know...throws a complete spanner into the definitions of "ethnicity" into EVE. Vherokior are dark-skinned because they are from deserts, Caldari and Sebiestor are pale because they are from cold regions, Gallente are olive-skinned because they're mixed, and so forth...
I'm not sure it's been that long enough for such extreme divergences in ethnicity to take place (at least for some ethnicities). Again I'm still processing this info. Thoughts?
EDIT - Or maybe he said "more" instead of "all"
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More, with more wheel options to select.
I like it. Ethnicity's been too "simple" for too long. ;)
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OK, yeah, more is alright. My self-entitled RPer "We have 51% of the say in the lore" complex is placated.
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You're a posthuman space pilot whose body is literally reconstituted flesh assembled in a lab. Skin pigmentation is clearly a footnote. (Same reason why wardrobes shouldn't be restricted)
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Yeep, It looks awesome, cannt wait to see this comeing. I will it use immediately.
The new Apocalypse-skins looked good too... cannt wait for a Khanid-Apoc.
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They've been talking about customizable ship skins for what... six years?
Don't hold your breath, you will die from asphyxiation.
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They've been talking about customizable ship skins for what... six years?
Don't hold your breath, you will die from asphyxiation.
We got a chip for that.
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Absolutely looking forward to being able to make the avatars match my imagination.
Now the thing is... will anyone -else- be able to see which races you've mixed, in some sort of 'info' tab?
IE I think the Amarr female avatars look rather terrible and I'm going to be getting quite 'dirty' to get the look I'm after, but i would die of embarassment IC if someone saw a drop of Brutor in there :)
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On the main page, I saw "All (or more) skin..." and came here hoping for transparent dresses.
I will sue for false advertising.
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I've been wondering about that myself, Silas: for some people it's a point of pride and on the public record, while for others things are more complicated or murky.
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cannt wait for a Khanid-Apoc.
Doubt the Khan-Poc will be player flyable, more something you'll see in their local space. Like the Roden-Thron.
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cannt wait for a Khanid-Apoc.
Doubt the Khan-Poc will be player flyable, more something you'll see in their local space. Like the Roden-Thron.
Having been to the session on virtual goods, I'd say that when the tech supports there being khan-pocs, or various other paintjobs, they'll be available to players as long as they're not pay to win.
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cannt wait for a Khanid-Apoc.
Doubt the Khan-Poc will be player flyable, more something you'll see in their local space. Like the Roden-Thron.
I think too, The Sarum one (red buttom) looked really nice to (but Publius has already a opinion about Jamyl, just not public :P So actually a no, but would nice to see), I think to the local Police forces and the royal navy will get the paintjob.
cannt wait for a Khanid-Apoc.
Doubt the Khan-Poc will be player flyable, more something you'll see in their local space. Like the Roden-Thron.
Having been to the session on virtual goods, I'd say that when the tech supports there being khan-pocs, or various other paintjobs, they'll be available to players as long as they're not pay to win.
It would the first thing I would buy from the NeX store. So If it comes, just there I would be cool with it too (So just my baby would get the paintjob).
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Absolutely looking forward to being able to make the avatars match my imagination.
Seconded. Even if my imagination terrifies me.
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Jamyl was crowned, which means she's not a member of house sarum, nor would she be affiliated with its house fleet.
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Jamyl was crowned, which means she's not a member of house sarum, nor would she be affiliated with its house fleet.
You are right, I have mix up a little. So yes of course it is the house colors, and Jamyl has most likely "bodyguards" in the imperial fleet color sheme.
So I have to rewrok my point to.... I like the house colors and have no problem with the House. I have just a problem with the perosn Jamyl :lol:. Nice point from you, I like it, maybe we need in the forum a politcal-salon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon_%28gathering%29) in the forum as a place to IC-playing without the IGS :)
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I'm not sure it's been that long enough for such extreme divergences in ethnicity to take place (at least for some ethnicities). Again I'm still processing this info. Thoughts?
10,000 years in New Eden is definitely long enough. The fact that there was a near extinction event (closing of the EVE gate and a rough fight for survival) around that time, makes it even more likely through ye olde "survival of the fittest" kick-starting evolution. If there was any kind of genetic alteration done prior to colonization -almost a necessity, really- time wouldn't even be a consideration.
So yes, very believable in a science fiction setting, and quite a welcome change to EVE for me. :D
Wasn't able to watch most of the videos, any mention of choosing a different starting location for different races to add in even more diversity? Like a Minmatar graduating from an Amarr capsuleer school? To put it simply, will it be possible to make an Ammatar character?
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Wasn't referring to 10,000 years, but just the past few centuries.
You don't have pale-skinned Tamils, for example.
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I'm not sure it's been that long enough for such extreme divergences in ethnicity to take place (at least for some ethnicities). Again I'm still processing this info. Thoughts?
10,000 years in New Eden is definitely long enough. The fact that there was a near extinction event (closing of the EVE gate and a rough fight for survival) around that time, makes it even more likely through ye olde "survival of the fittest" kick-starting evolution. If there was any kind of genetic alteration done prior to colonization -almost a necessity, really- time wouldn't even be a consideration.
So yes, very believable in a science fiction setting, and quite a welcome change to EVE for me. :D
Wasn't able to watch most of the videos, any mention of choosing a different starting location for different races to add in even more diversity? Like a Minmatar graduating from an Amarr capsuleer school? To put it simply, will it be possible to make an Ammatar character?
No school change... and I dont know how big the percentage filter is, they said in the vid 40%, so I think they go in "tenner-steper". About a Ammatar character, that would really nice to see some of those, I always thought they were missing.
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However, it's only been 15 minutes, but trying to get my head around for having all skin tones available for all races. They had a white Brutor and...I don't know...throws a complete spanner into the definitions of "ethnicity" into EVE. Vherokior are dark-skinned because they are from deserts, Caldari and Sebiestor are pale because they are from cold regions, Gallente are olive-skinned because they're mixed, and so forth...
I'm not sure it's been that long enough for such extreme divergences in ethnicity to take place (at least for some ethnicities). Again I'm still processing this info. Thoughts?
Clearly you don't play around with the character creator very much; Sebbies are far more olive-skinned than the Gallente. EVE's definition of ethnicity has far more to do with culture than it does with physical appearance. Unless you're Amarrian ;)
As someone who had only three American Indian ancestors in the last four centuries but has a more golden skin-tone than most European Caucasians, I can say that there's plenty of time for racial blending in EVE's history.
I am so happy to have the option to blend races coming Soon(tm). Despite the range of options in the new character creator, the EVE population was beginning to look very generic again (lacking the culture-specific costume bits didn't really help this, but even the faces were showing less variation than they could do). Pick 12 RL people from the same birthplace and put them in a room together and you'll have more variation than you will in EVE atm.
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In a long timeframe there are a few things that affect racial mixing.
One of the major ones is availability of mates in your own racial group.
Other major one is the actual ease of mating with another racial group.
Major things that limit the mixing of different groups is differences in culture and religion is part of the culture, also distance.
In the Empire the culture pretty much prohibits all racial mixing. If there is some, it is an anomaly and treated as such. Anomalies are not treated kindly in societies with black and white morality.
In the Republic the areas where the different tribes were living in seem to be clearly defined, also the customs of each tribe were different. Because of the warrior culture, there had to been some infighting, only the traders would have the possibility of mating peacefully. Raiding your neighbouring tribe for mates would also be a less peaceful option.
In the Federation the Gallenteans are a separate group from the other groups in their empire, which leads me to believe that it is not a composite group of nationalities that have embraced the ideals of their empire, but a clearly defined ethnic group that prides in their history and considers those that do not share it somehow lesser. Then there are the other ethnic groups, that all have their clearly defined cultures that have very little in common in the spiritual realm. Would an Intaki throw away the possibility of becoming one of the Reborn for a beautiful smile? In the Federation there is many liberties, including the sexual, but fucking everything does not mean that you will have children with everything.
Then the Caldari, the most racist and xenophobic culture of them all. Instead of mating with other races they decided to create a generation of test tube babies so that there would be enough mates for procreation within the group without mingling with any others.
It is just my view that mixing tends to occur within certain parameters, and very rarely those parameters are met in New Eden.
Since the Yulai accord there has been real opportunity for mixing, but the mainstream culture of each and every empire would frown upon it. Mainly because all the other cultures are considered to be hostile to your own. Not because they are actively hostile, but mainly because they are different.
Of course there are some theories about the Gallenteans creating the current tribal culture of the Republic to serve the needs of the Federation, but this is not the time or place for that discussion.
\o/ Brekkies \o/
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Would an Intaki throw away the possibility of becoming one of the Reborn for a beautiful smile?
Yes.
Or, rather, they can easily reject the question in myriad ways. Like:
1) I don't follow the Ida.
2) Intaki is a state of mind, not genetics.
3) The Ida is bigger than the Intaki people.
4) I wasn't going to be Reborn anyways.
5) I belong to a sect that encourages finding new paths to walk.
6) I'm throwing it away for more than a smile.
For starters.
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Again, the question of mixed ethnicity is irrelevant as gene-sculpting means our origin doesn't have to match what our clones look like - and all new characters these days are in their first clone from day 1.
Brutors may still be Maori/black, but brutor capsuleers have the luxury of being able to create clones with a broader range of pigmentation.
To suggest that there is no inbreeding simply because the mechanics haven't catered to it before is also a strange argument to make.
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Meh, this doesnt really excite me, tbh.
I'm with Shae, I've always thought "bloodlines" in EVE was more about the culture than the exact genetic lineage. As of now, you can make a vast number of differing skin tones, even for say the Brutor. Someone who's half-Vhekior, half-Civire genetically but grew up in the State, speaks Caldarian (i said it!), supports the occupation of Caldari Prime, and flies slow, boring, missle and shield-fitted ships is a Civire, not half-Vhekior, half-Civire. How you act, what you believe and what you do determines your cultural identity more than your DNA, ESPECIALLY in a world when that DNA is subject for manipulation and change.
Im not sure the huge need for "mix-racing", but apparently a lot of people are excited by the options.
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Cultural identity may often define more than DNA and physical appearence, but that does not mean the latter define nothing at all.
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Cultural identity may often define more than DNA and physical appearence, but that does not mean the latter define nothing at all.
It means about as much as an American saying they're Irish on St Patrick's Day.
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Gene-sculpting?
I thought cloned people (a tiny minority in New Eden) were just biomass put into the shape of a person where the most of the bones were replaced by plastic, thus enabling sculpting of the features to anything your heart desires, also choosing the color of the skin on the meat would not be a biggie.
But it does not change the DNA of the clone, if the clone can reproduce, the child will still have features of the parents before any cosmetic alteration. (This is why it is hilarious that people with plastic surgery reproduce and create spawn that have to be altered to look like the family.)
Personally I would believe that any kind of genetic tampering of the capsuleers would be done with extreme caution, because the scientist are not 100% sure what actually keeps a capsuleer from going into mindlock. At least I don't think its 100% genetics, there is 'magic' involved. Mainly because DNA degenerates with time, which would mean that a capsuleer with enough cloning and time would actually lose its capability to be a capsuleer.
Hmmh, an interesting thought.
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Cultural identity may often define more than DNA and physical appearence, but that does not mean the latter define nothing at all.
It means about as much as an American saying they're Irish on St Patrick's Day.
No, it means about as much as an American having japanese origins.
American white people and Irish people are basically the same ethnies originally.
To my eyes I find it just weird to be against hybrid "races" to begin with, living in a country where these are quite common (coming from black and white people mating mostly) and I am pretty sure it is the same in the US, and even more probably. It would also go against what defines the very core of the Gallente Federation at least, where a third of the Minmatar people live here daily. Don't tell me they never mate with gallenteans...
Well of course even with the current system we can claim it is the case (after all thats what I do), but if that can be improved I do not see where is the problem, really. I was, though, surprised they had the time to implement something like this, but I am quite pleased they still think about Incarna sometimes.
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It would also go against what defines the very core of the Gallente Federation at least, where a third of the Minmatar people live here daily. Don't tell me they never mate with gallenteans...
And if those children are born in the Federation, they are Federation citizens by birth and only Minmatar citizens by dint of genetics, if their parents' tribes will even accept them. If they grow up in a Gallentean environment, they will be far more Gallente than Minmatar.
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tl;dr, all we need to be able to properly emulate whatever "origins" we want for our characters (outlaw faction-raised people aside) is the bloodline-blending, and the ability to pick *any* school from any faction (and presumably get the appropriate skills derived from that)?
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Yeah.
It would also go against what defines the very core of the Gallente Federation at least, where a third of the Minmatar people live here daily. Don't tell me they never mate with gallenteans...
And if those children are born in the Federation, they are Federation citizens by birth and only Minmatar citizens by dint of genetics, if their parents' tribes will even accept them. If they grow up in a Gallentean environment, they will be far more Gallente than Minmatar.
And yet they will never look like a true gallentean because of DNA. Unless it happens after several generations of inter breeding.
Unless we consider ofc that every individual, brutor to true amarr, look the same and cant be differenciated, of course. Or Caucasian people, african people, asian people, etc, all look the same and do not share distinctive traits.