Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Graanvlokkie on 31 Jan 2011, 13:20
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Posted at http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1459258
You do not call to the strong. You call to the gullible. If you wanted the responses of strong entities, then you would have appealed for help privately through some other means than this publicly-viewable and often-mocked forum. You call to the self-important, special snowflakes of the cluster. You call to the whining malcontents and sycophants in New Eden, who instead of joining with others have in their misguided self-importance struck out either on their own or in small conclaves.
Capsuleers have the power to help you, but not the capsuleers that you're addressing. You will find nothing but angst and indecisiveness on this forum. If you wish to do something more than broadcast empty platitudes to an apathetic universe, then you should drop your transparent facade and speak with candor to one of the many entities in deep space capable of responding with strength.
Kind of sad, because it is kind of true ...
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Too bad there is no 'Like' button on this forum :D
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Every time a Goon makes an insightful comment on an IC forum, a baby kitten dies.
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Wisdom? Why is a couple platitudes about the utility of IGS wisdom? Most of that passage can easily be read as the same old 'lolrp' and 'nullsec is the only real EVE' sentiments dressed up in complete, IC sentences.
I'm not trying to say that was the player's intent; I have no idea what he or she was going for. But I can't see why it should be singled out for any particular praise. There is nothing there that hasn't been said a million times before, IC and OOC.
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Like apes with iPods, the tool is only as useful as the ingenuity of its wielder.
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Wisdom? Why is a couple platitudes about the utility of IGS wisdom? Most of that passage can easily be read as the same old 'lolrp' and 'nullsec is the only real EVE' sentiments dressed up in complete, IC sentences.
That's not how I read it.
Even among RPers or above-zero-dwellers (the two being not interchangeable) it is pretty much a fact that if you actually want something done, you speak to the people who might be able to do it privately, and organize stuff. You don't go around calling for help or making grand announcements in public, because that tends to get you more of the guys who want to show off doing something than the guys who actually want to do it.
The pretty much only exception is if you want to gather people to talk about stuff, such as for a comms channel.
And this all holds IC, too. So it is far from "lolRPers" to say so.
Nothing there that hasn't been said a million times before, yes. But it's still true. ;)
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Of course the interpretation I outlined is not the only possible one; the post can be perfectly understood in an entirely IC sense. Neither is necessarily correct, and I do try to assume the best of intentions from everyone. Nonetheless, whenever the phrase 'special snowflakes' is employed, it makes me rather suspicious, given the OOC connotation it's picked up.
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Like apes with iPods, the tool is only as useful as the ingenuity of its wielder.
^This.
Maybe, just maybe, we've stumbled upon a rarity - like a gorilla that can read music and play the harp - but I doubt it. That post was probably cooked together with the entire collective intelligence of the Alliance, an IQ score that is easily counted on a single hand.
It's not wisdom, it's pointing out facts. You don't need to be wise to see what's right in front of you, you just need eyes.
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The core of her critique was that it was posted, not only on the forums, but on the IGS.
And the "self-important" people she's talking about? The ones who either go it alone or form small groups, rather than joining a large movement?
Anyone care to name a roleplay corporation that doesn't fit that description, compared to a nullsec alliance? U'K, maybe? CVA? Both fairly frail, in the scheme of things.
Ladies and gentlemen, that post was a sneer, and it was aimed directly at all of us. We've just been told we're "doing it wrong," following our own egos rather than signing up with something greater than ourselves, and that our power amounts to nothing.
This is wisdom from the point of view of someone who is playing the game at its most "epic" scale, and sees no validity in other modes of play (specifically ours). It's not so much wrong as very limited, and pretty damned judgmental.
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Aria Pointed it out pretty much as I saw it. Still, it was quite well done, and likely very intellectual, from a goon's point of view.
She made another one in the 'embrace our destiny' tread, following the same trend, I believe. I can't decide for myself if I should think it brilliant to make good use of 'obvious' truths or somehow wish she'd stop being self-rightous.
Speaking of that tread, I'm amazed this is the first time anyone quotes Equilibrium in regards to the Sansha's and te 'perfect society' of the Nation. It's a bit ripp-offish I feel, but it's a good comparison, nonetheless. I'll leave it at that however to avoid derailing this tread.
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I did not intend to speculate in that individual Goon's motives in posting what he posted, actually. But that's beside the point. I personally did not feel targeted by his sneer, so I don't particularly care if he aimed at me. ;)
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Kind of sad, because it is kind of true ...
What I find "sad" is that if any other person would have posted it, it would have been applauded, and while some are indeed giving it credit on an individual basis the general sentiment I've picked up is 'lol a goon rping lol'. At least some positive reactions here, heh.
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Yes, it was a sneer, but what I found good about the sneer was how it was framed, carefully walking the IC/OOC line, targeting both the forum itself, the users and RP'ers in general.
It encompasses all of the interpretations put forward so far in this thread.
It is like a horoscope, framed in a way that anyone that reads it sees a bit of his game-play in it.
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Kind of sad, because it is kind of true ...
What I find "sad" is that if any other person would have posted it, it would have been applauded, and while some are indeed giving it credit on an individual basis the general sentiment I've picked up is 'lol a goon rping lol'. At least some positive reactions here, heh.
This it true as well!
I think, because of the source, people automatically go "lol goon'rp hurp durf".
EDIT: I think this was a brilliant response to the thread in general, and a good piece of RP.
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There are many intelligent people in the various SA iterations. It's not a very surprising thing to see such a post from one of them.
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In my less than humble opinion, the commentary is neither insightful nor conducive to engaging roleplay interaction or dialogue. All it displays is the individual's inability to utilize a tool for productive means, and displaying their ignorance for all to see. Congratulations, bravo, im extremely impressed. The populist sentiment may be eaten up as visionary , but to me its just another mouth making noise, goon or otherwise.
While I'm hesitant to make personal judgements based on game behavior, lets just say my initial thoughts aren't positive.
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He's been poking me in my 'station captured' thread, and I'm having a bit of an internal debate of how to respond, as in should I waste time writing up some IC responses to someone from a non-rp group that has been poking his head into IGS lately, with no RP history? I haven't heard of him before and I'm not sure if that sort of thing is warranted. Any thoughts from the wisdom of backstage?
I feel like there's a goon peeing in my RP pool in some sense, but then again I think he has been writing pretty well and I don't want to shun that on a snap reaction without some thought.....
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I find the idea quite arrogant that to warrant an IC response, you have to be in a RPer group and have RP history. In my opinion, the Goon in question has behaved reasonably, written clear posts, and not violated any PF or in-game fact.
To not answer him just because he is a Goonie and thus might actually be peeing in your pool even if you don't see any yellow anywhere close to him would be stupid, and pretty much prove that you belong a bunch of lolRPers who only care about our internal thou-shouting and not what anyone else in the EVE universe has to say.
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I find the idea quite arrogant that to warrant an IC response, you have to be in a RPer group and have RP history.
I'm not sure that's the line of thought here, really. The argument against responding seems to boil down to, "Don't feed the trolls."
Mind you, this particular goon doesn't look to me like a troll: more like an honest representative of a perspective that elevates empire-building and mass warfare and devalues anything smaller-scale.
It's refreshing. After all, no matter how basically hostile, a reasoned attack is vulnerable to a reasoned response.
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I find the idea quite arrogant that to warrant an IC response, you have to be in a RPer group and have RP history.
I'm not sure that's the line of thought here, really. The argument against responding seems to boil down to, "Don't feed the trolls."
Mind you, this particular goon doesn't look to me like a troll: more like an honest representative of a perspective that elevates empire-building and mass warfare and devalues anything smaller-scale.
It's refreshing. After all, no matter how basically hostile, a reasoned attack is vulnerable to a reasoned response.
I'm tempted to look through that "0.0 alliances and RP" thread and find a post there to summarize this, but :effort:. The point is, he is not doing anything which breaks the "4th wall" of being IC, nor is he being outright condescending of RP in general. He's fulfilling a rarely seen niche in RP - the 0.0 alliance member who cares to interact with the rest of the cluster, but is aware of his position as a god-pilot in an organization capable of giving any of the 4 empires a run for their money - and his organization is only one fish in the pond.
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As some of you stated I've found his writing pretty well-thought and at least interesting to read imho, so I won't ignore or anything. I've just seen the occasional 0.0 alliance member pop into IGS on random occasions and then leave and it's generally not good reading. Thank you for your opinions
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I'm not sure that's the line of thought here, really. The argument against responding seems to boil down to, "Don't feed the trolls."
If all you knew of this guy was that he is a Goon, then assuming he is a troll might be reasonable.
If, however, what you know of him is that he posts well, seems to stay in character, etc, and happens to also be a Goon, then I find that treating him as a troll just in case is a bit harsh.
I've just seen the occasional 0.0 alliance member pop into IGS on random occasions and then leave
If I used this as a guideline to which groups to talk to, I'd never speak to an RPer again.
;)
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And if I ever had a chance to read CAOD prior to subscribing I probably wouldn't have bothered with this game to begin with. Of all places I would have hoped the denizens of backstage can recognize an insult, even when glazed with flowery, well spoken dialogue. The capability to form complete sentences, while a feat in itself, does not make it rp-friendly in need of nurturing.
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as far as I can see, the character's been in a RP type corporation, so I don't see what the issue is.
What does it matter about them currently being in one of the Goonswarm corporations?
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as far as I can see, the character's been in a RP type corporation, so I don't see what the issue is.
What does it matter about them currently being in one of the Goon-swarm corporations?
Not much. <- That's what I should be able to say. Sadly as a goon this person is in an organization known for an incredible level of dickery and pure, refined idiocy as far as the term 'internet-assholery' goes. This grants him/her a reputation based on affiliation that makes allot of people wary of what he says and does - everyone expects and braces for the inevitable storm. Few will take him/her totally serious, if only because it *IS* a goon.
Obviously all of this can be completely wrong, in this specific case. But we don't know that, we won't know that, until we find out for sure if it's just a goon RP'ing or trying to or a series of quasi-intellectual, semi-veiled flames on all Role Player,s the IGS or more.
AS for Silas, I for one would say 'take the chance, this one time.' For all we know, he/she is a legit RP'er, pre-condemned by association. I'm not entirely sure either why myself, but we can only find out one way for sure.