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[Chell Charon]

Everything right now is WIP.

Trying to get a few OOC ideas/backround points up first and then work from there.

Theological/political basics in a totally random order:

-Considers itself a capsuleer house, more a reflection of Amarrian Houses rather than a directly comparable entity.

- All capsuleers are considered to be soulless. An extreme extension from sacred flesh doctrine combined with the belief that a man can only die once. (Older capsuleers who did not have to die to become capsuleers and have yet to die once are the rare exception.)

-a life and privilidges of a freeman/faithful considered more valuable than that of a slave and a slave ranks above heathen. Logic being that even a heathen has some potential to find faith, and as such merits some consideration.
 *In a somewhat similar manner a heretic is more valuable than apostate. Not that either is likely to receive that much consideration.

-Has little to no trouble in co-operating with heathens or even heretics. As long it is of benefit to the faithful (extreme note here, not the Empire necessarily!)

-"benefit to the faithful" is an awfully wide concept. Needs furher qualification?

-Considers authority of the Imperial Throne to not be 'in question', however the authority of the person currently occypying the seat... sadly a bit more.

-Heirs? Only the current Sarumite heir has not failed to follow tradition and even he supports the current holder of the Throne, soo..

-Moderation to be applied in diplomacy just enough to not get thrown out of the Empire proper, just yet.

Thoughts? Feedback? Oaths of eternal loyalty/hatred?

WIP is Everything here right now.

[Gymir Asaadan]

Something to think about,

How do these individuals stick to their beliefs if they think they are soul-less? Or rather, why would such zealots ever want to become or ever become a capsuleer, knowing that they damn themselves by doing so?

Possible answers to my own questions;

They are reformed and now believe these where they did not before?

They are sacrificing themselves for a greater cause?

[Aldrith Shutaq]

Seems like you're going for an amoral/renegade bent with this corp, but what keeps it loyal to the Empire?

[Rin Kaelestria]

- All capsuleers are considered to be soulless. An extreme extension from sacred flesh doctrine combined with the belief that a man can only die once. (Older capsuleers who did not have to die to become capsuleers and have yet to die once are the rare exception.)

Yeah, was gonna say, it is a bit of an extreme extension of the sacred flesh thing.  Even PF portal section on it just says it's for royal families and whoever sits on the throne, because cloned flesh is impure. Not the soulless thing.

Either way, I'll admit I was a bit curious about Crow's sudden change of corps to one where "murder" is in the name, as well as curiousity as to what sort of corp it was. Great to see that you're fleshing it out now. Will be watching this thread a bit.    Again, for my own curious reasons.

[Chell Charon]

Gymir, considering that the individual members need not buy in on the dogma, reasons for the individuals will vary. As for those who do buy in fully to the dogma even pre-capsuleer, I'm thinking self sacrifice for the benefit of the faith. Sin-eaters with a combination of Djinn.

Capsuleers as spirits (natural forces of universe) who can choose to either follow Gods plan for them (aiding mortal Faithful and the Faith) or fail as so many others have?

Aldrith, loyal to the Empire? For one stubbern refusal to give up in the fight of Empire's very soul to some filthy liberals?  However loyalty is first to God, even if it sets the direction against some portion of the Empire. (Hopefully not the full Empire) [Here's betting one isk that Jamyl abolishes slavery within a year or something...  ]

Rin.  Woe to any who knocks twice. So it's that with the suppostion that your first death is the knocking. And yeah I know sacred flesh, taken way extreme.

Also from current corp info:
Murder: 1. Premeditated unlawful killing of a person.
            2. Gathering of crows.
 

[Aldrith Shutaq]

Hmmm, interesting. Honestly the highly negative view of most capsuleers held by your group is similar to the Knighthood's, as is the sense of duty to mortals. KotMC doesn't directly answer the question of capsuleer souls, but firmly believes in cultivating a noble spirt in its members despite where their non-physical bits may be. We have a good chance of getting along, or a good chance of butting heads if too many unsavory tactics are used to get your way...

This should be interesting.

[Chell Charon]

I'm guessing it will either be. Aldrith tolerating the repeated use of unsavory tactics due to the willingness of the C0URT to employ perfectly honorable tactics as well. (Maybe even seeking closer co-operation in order to influence the decision making?)

Or then there will come one case that just is way too overboard for Aldy. "They did what to the POW's!?!"

I'm still debating what interpretation for the "We do not enslave" I intend to use. Either:
1. Just kill em all, maybe the next batch will have the good sense to surrender to someone more inclined to enslaving them.

or

2. Unless they can prove they have been freed (of Minmatar mainly) they are escaped slaves to be returned to the empire.

I'm starting to side with 1. Because 2. would just get a standing ovation from Leo and seems more hypocritical than anything else.

[Morwen Lagann]

I'm starting to side with 1. Because 2. would just get a standing ovation from Leo and seems more hypocritical than anything else.

In all seriousness, sounds interesting, Crow.

Are you going to have some sort of running theme with the "murder of crows" concept?
- Titles and ranks within the corporation based on the birds?
- A requirement that all members have the word "Crow" or some translation thereof in their name? (yes, I'm kidding)
- Will it affect your style of PVP operations (if you do any)?

Regarding the bit about souls - what about those in the "rare exception" who have JCs? The whole issue with the soul, cloning, capsuleering and the Godflesh Doctrine is actually a pretty interesting one that I wish CCP would do a little more with at some point - and it's one that interests Morwen IC as well.

And yes - more clarification on what the corp would consider "of benefit to the faithful" is a good idea, especially considering that you might end up working with "heretics and heathens" in order to accomplish something that would qualify. Is there a quantifiable amount of 'benefit' that would need to be reached before you'd consider working with such a group? Is it only certain types of benefits that would qualify? Would it depend on the particular kind of heretic/heathen in combination with the prospective benefit? Etc.

[Matariki Rain]

The idea that your first death leaves you soulless isn't new, and it's separate from the sacred flesh doctrine. I'd assumed it was an uncomfortable topic that wasn't much talked about, not that Amarrian characters fought against the idea itself.

And the concept that I've long hijacked for this is an obscure idea about the "scourges of God": people who are predetermined for damnation anyway, and who are therefore used to do a bunch of necessary dirty work so that that work won't stain the consciences of those who will be saved.

These concepts apply in parts of Minmatar society as well.

[Chell Charon]

Mor, On the Murder of Crows theme with ranks and titles, I guess I am now going to have to. 

About those PvP operations. I better be having some nao instead of waiting for too many of my failures in communication to initiate them.

I am thinking Cruiser+ hulls (I hear those gateguns make short work of most smaller ships...). And before somebody asks, while I would like to hop aboard the facwar train (if only for the spectacular failmails I always seem to produce). I don't think C0URT will do that, barring short stints with very specific goals and reasons.

Small group combat (Piracy?) for lowsec and maybe highsec wardecs/ganks(Terrorism!) once the changes go through to wardec systems.

"Of benefit to the Faithful" Yea, yea. I know.
I am guessing it will be considerably less thorny issue with a lot less consideration needed if the ones taking the damage and providing the benefits are heathens/heretics themselves. For excample, helping Angel Cartel to go after targets outside the Empire might only need equal share of the loot?

While lending a hand to Blood Raiders within the Empire against anything will take whole lot of 'benefits' to explain. Maybe, maybe if the target is a Holder C0URT considers to be everything but faithful? And even with that, just being liberal wont cut it, that holder would need to be something truly bad for both Faith and Empire. *Glances at Leo* Anyhoo... 

In general, collateral damage is of note only if it directly harms Faithful? Heathens merit a consideration on the scale of 'are we handing the Sansha new recruits' which would be a big no.

[Horatius Caul]

Horatius would be sympathetic to a doomist group.

Regarding the soulless issue, I thought a lot about it back when I was in PIE, and arrived at an interesting conclusion: Even though one is soulless doesn't mean one has to stop serving the Empire. In fact, unrestrained by a soul, one can become a true instrument of God, not just a servant.

[Chell Charon]

Horatius would be sympathetic to a doomist group.

Regarding the soulless issue, I thought a lot about it back when I was in PIE, and arrived at an interesting conclusion: Even though one is soulless doesn't mean one has to stop serving the Empire. In fact, unrestrained by a soul, one can become a true instrument of God, not just a servant.

A demon in service to God even if committing atrocities to the sinners, is still serving God. As opposed to an angel that rebels?

[Horatius Caul]

Horatius would be sympathetic to a doomist group.

Regarding the soulless issue, I thought a lot about it back when I was in PIE, and arrived at an interesting conclusion: Even though one is soulless doesn't mean one has to stop serving the Empire. In fact, unrestrained by a soul, one can become a true instrument of God, not just a servant.

A demon in service to God even if committing atrocities to the sinners, is still serving God. As opposed to an angel that rebels?

I fear not death nor evil, for I am already with my Lord the Divine. He left this body on the Earth to do His business, and I am coming for you.

[Chell Charon]

Soo I've written up three (+one) thingies.

First one on the list: Titles.

[spoiler] Amarrians:
- Margrave of Murder

*Khanid and Ni-Kunni.
- Magister of Murder.

*Ammatar and the Caldari lines.
-Serjeant-at-Arms

*Ravenguard.
Combat pilots fullfilling specific requirements.


I have a few others but those won't be awarded untill the corporation gets bigger. So I'll refrain from cluttering the place any more.

Troops.
- Vanguard of Murder
Combats specialists, veterans unintrested in officer responcibilities.

- Blackguard
Basic rank. (No racial diffrentiation at this level!)

- Ranger (Alts)
Not that we are ever going to have these, right? 

There's a bit more meat for these bones, but I think I'll keep that for incorp stuff.
[/spoiler]

Second: Three paths

[spoiler]Ivory.
*Extremists within the C0URT.
-Flagelletion, vows of silence(Outside the corporation) and other extreme shows of piety.
-Likely to act as clergy/mentors within the corporation.
-Extremely unlikely to discuss directly with heretics or apostates. (Or even heathens.)

Marble.
*Moderates within C0URT (All things being relative..)
-Unlimited contact with outsiders.
-Likely to act as diplomats.

Snow.
*Undecided.
-All new comers and trial members start here.
-Non-trial members are allowed to be more wild.
-Non-RPers are always on Snow path.
(Catchall when uncertain or feeling limited by the other two.)


All paths will share the basic philosophies of C0URT. Assuming at this time that Bone will be rarest with Snow most common. And no the rumours that there is fourth one aren't true. 
[/spoiler]

Few excamples on how these work.

Alt, fullfilling specialist requirements for Ravenguard has a title of:
Snow path Ravenguard Ranger.

Bone path Serjeant-at-Arms of Blackguard. Might be a Civire who does not fill the requirements for Ravenguard, acts as a mining officer and never speaks directly to outsiders. (Vow of silence kind of thing)

Paths I hope will help with RP focus.

Thoughts on these two?