Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Repentence Tyrathlion on 27 Jul 2013, 04:40
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So I was getting on with stuff yesterday, and trading barbs with everyone's favourite Provist nutcase on IGS, when it suddenly hit me. :!:
For the longest time, IGS was something I avoided or merely read. Occasionally I'd throw a comment in, but for the most part, I was quiet. :s
Now... I'm not only commenting, but debating, arguing, even started a topic or two - and now indulging in minor IC harassment. :ugh:
I have, in fact, become an IGS troll. :eek:
Now I need to find a bridge to lurk under. :evil:
What was the moment some of you guys transitioned from spectator to gladiator? :D
...and no, I have no idea why I felt the need to put an smiley at the end of every line. :oops:
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I first started gangwarring on the IGS when I found myself enjoying the Amarr bloc's religious justifications for ebilness while at the same time noticing that nobody in the Minmatar bloc was taking an idealogically aggressive stance in opposition. Ushra'Khan was doing their thing in space moreso than on the IGS, so of course I didn't personally see their thing too much.
When I found myself thinking, "Yeah... that's some pretty cool shit!" about the Amarr stuff, I decided it was time to delve a lot deeper into Havohej as an RP character. And much fun was had (I think) by all who interacted with him during that time. I've been so much less active in RP since returning, but I'm trying to change that.
Smiley Quota: :wut: :wtf: :brilliant: :cowbell: :yar: :yar: :yar: :yar: :yar:
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What was the moment some of you guys transitioned from spectator to gladiator? :D
About the time I got a job and suddenly found myself with 8 hours each day where I had nothing to do but couldn't play EVE.
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What was the moment some of you guys transitioned from spectator to gladiator? :D
As soon as I started to read it seriously. Mostly OOC motivated though. :ugh:
Recently I think that I got saved by the lack of time I have because of :RLjob: and so I don't really feel compelled to read it anymore, it has become more of a hassle. And maybe that's for the best since it's sometimes very stretching my own RP. :o
Yep. :cube:
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I've never trolled on the IGS so I really wouldn't know what that's all about.
Are there some tips you could give me, maybe?
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I've never trolled on the IGS so I really wouldn't know what that's all about.
Are there some tips you could give me, maybe?
By the IGS's standards it's anything that doesn't conform to enforced civility. The minute you step out of line, watch out.
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Really, a lot of the stuff that comes up on the Summit is a troll in and of itself.
Examples are not limited to:
An Amarrian talking about mistreating slaves when they know Electus Matari are about or making snide comments about basically any other subject on the IGS or the Summit itself.
I'd say that you shouldn't be thinking you're a troll because Reppy has a differing opinion on highly volatile stuff people are pushing out deliberately.
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Really, a lot of the stuff that comes up on the Summit is a troll in and of itself.
Examples are not limited to:
An Amarrian talking about mistreating slaves when they know Electus Matari are about or making snide comments about basically any other subject on the IGS or the Summit itself.
I'd say that you shouldn't be thinking you're a troll because Reppy has a differing opinion on highly volatile stuff people are pushing out deliberately.
Tongue-in-cheek description. I wouldn't define what Reppy does as 'trolling', just a snide remark on the fact that I seem to be posting in just about everything on there these days.
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I've never trolled on the IGS so I really wouldn't know what that's all about.
Are there some tips you could give me, maybe?
By the IGS's standards it's anything that doesn't conform to enforced civility. The minute you step out of line, watch out.
CCP usually doesn't moderate for 'trolling' unless it's really obvious. I don't think I've seen them moderate trolling in the IGS, actually. More often than not, they simply remove OOC posts or killboard links.
Unless you're confusing IGS with The Summit.
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There's a difference between being a troll, and 'trolling through' a forum. (Which, to be fair, might just be people mispronouncing 'trawling'.)
I think the terms we might be looking for are IGS spectator versus IGS warrior. I wouldn't call myself either, but I'm probably closer to the latter; I only started reading and posting regularly when I found myself with lots of time where I had not very much to do, but no access to an EVE client.
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I'm a pretty unapologetic IGS forum warrior, so take what I say with a grain of salt. That said, I do feel that the IGS is a big part of the IC universe that we play in, and a lot of interesting stuff happens there. There can be a small signal to noise ratio at times (thanks, punsters :D), but in general it's a good sandbox to play in.
I think, if I recall correctly, my first real foray into the IGS was back in 2003. The Lame Ducks were doing this public "Shoot Gallente miners" thing, so I started harassing them with my Breacher and posting oddball after-action reports of it - sort of a poor frigate pilot's version of the big after action reports that used to get posted there between the Amarrian and Minmatar RPers.
Oh, and for the record, Rep, I don't consider you a forum troll. You've got a long ways to go before you can drape that warm mantle across your shoulders.
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Once upon a time, I was a pretty avid IGS Warrior, but over the years, the conversations just didn't change...
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Esna typically only comments when he spots an especially juicy opening. Most of the time he is an avid believer in the idea that more can be done behind the scenes than with open arguments on a forum like that (and for the most part it's held up). On very rare occasions, though, he'll notice a situation where having his voice on the issue be something that can be pointed out is more valuable than not having it so.
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Once upon a time, I was a pretty avid IGS Warrior, but over the years, the conversations just didn't change...
I wasn't even around for very long before I saw this happening. IGS seemed to fluctuate between embarrassing efforts to "win" RP and the occasional interesting discussion.
I was moderately active there for a while, probably would have been moreso except that it's blocked by my company's monster firewall (Backstage and FHC are the only EVE-related sites I can get to, all KBs are blocked, etc, under blanket "games" catagory) so the only time I could look at IGS was when I was home and would prefer to be playing the game.
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What was the moment some of you guys transitioned from spectator to gladiator? :D
I think for Kaz, he is still trying to become a gladiator, I have usually only ever replied to posts that deal with the Amarr in some way, but lately I have been repling to Gutter Press releases with actual replies to fight off the wave of trolling that is in them. I think I have been lossing that battle.
~ Kazuma
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I make my comments when required and do not respond to pointless flames that arise due to my faction.
I lol hilariously at Repentance's one liners, for the record.
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I make my comments when required and do not respond to pointless flames that arise due to my faction.
I lol hilariously at Repentance's one liners, for the record.
Glad you approve :D
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I went from gladiator to spectator. Call it weariness, call it wondering if the effort was worth it, call it deciding that I had more fun being obtuse1 or obstructionary2 ... I dunno what to call it.
1I think I laughed for a solid week when Anslo mistook Celeste for a Gallente purist/raving nationalist. Of course she didn't correct him: that error was as much a win for her as it was for me.
2'Obstructionary' for me is when Maris desperately feels the need to comment on something, but is also too worried about potential consequences to say what she actually means.
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I'm still mostly a spectator. Karm isn't interested in the content of most threads.
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I'm still mostly a spectator. Karm isn't interested in the content of most threads.
I should start a thread about Karm being Kaz's love slave..... see if you would stay a spectator to that one. :idea: :twisted: :oops:
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I'm still mostly a spectator. Karm isn't interested in the content of most threads.
I should start a thread about Karm being Kaz's love slave..... see if you would stay a spectator to that one. :idea: :twisted: :oops:
Do eeet
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Threads like that get a more personal response :yar:
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Response like: "Oh baby, come out to my low-sec love nest, and I'll show you a wonderful time with my Incursus!" :twisted:
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Watch it, K-Ry. That's my Virtua-wife you're talkin' about there. D:<
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What was the moment some of you guys transitioned from spectator to gladiator? :D
When I first logged on.
(http://huehueteotl.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/jean-leon_gerome_pollice_verso.jpg)
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Mostly given up on the IGS as a place for anything of merit to occur. Nice to see everyone taking so readily to the minmatar bashing though.
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Mostly given up on the IGS as a place for anything of merit to occur. Nice to see everyone taking so readily to the minmatar bashing though.
This is primarily a symptom of the 'low hanging fruit' mentality many tend to engage in when they have no clear objectives but to make words for the sake of doing so (right or wrong I am not the judge of, but it is clear that a lot of instances of this behaviour are 'because I haven't got anything else pressing to do right now').
When Heth was a thing, anyone who supported him got bashed, even during his glory days of doing no wrong (from an IC perspective) beyond shaking up theo ld order and centralising everything. Sure, OOCly we know, and ICly now know he was a terrible, misguided man with extreme views. But yet the low hanging fruit got picked and proptly stepped on 'because it's easy to do'.
ATM, Minmatar have been put under the lens due to attacks on their ally over a matter of honour, a concept which is oft misinterpreted even by those who profess to abide by such a code.
Not to mention, whether it is real or not, the events of Heth's removal have instilled in the general public an impression that there is a new metagame to role play - apply enough pressure and things you don't like will go away. Likely an incorrect assumption borne out of one recent scenario, but it doesn't do anything to prevent the militant pursuit of one's objectives (both meta and IC - as if there's a difference).
I tend to comment only if a topic is relevant to Aelisha - Heth was bad for business after the initial patriotic wave, so commenting either way became a taboo subject, and she'll bash the Federation on almost any grounds (though minmatar being aggressors makes it a weak position to attack the Federation military with words - though their judicial and extradition system is a key area of concern).
Then again, i do not know why more people aren't targetting the statistical facts of each nation - the State is an oppresive regime even when under corporate rule, the Federation isn't even pretending it doesn't want everyone to act like a Gallentean in the next few generations and so on. It seems like the Empire and Republic get the worst of it simply because they've been portrayed as foils to the 'more modern' fed and State for a long time, and I'd love to see more constructive roleplay, building internally rather than attacking externally, to bring the fact that both are successful interstellar nations to the fore.
rant done I guess - but the culture of attacking for no reason will not go away unless it is ignored wholly. Aggression should be for clear, IC and in game benefits IMO, not as a verbal bloodsport.
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I would just like for a change to see PF or whatever else focusing a little on the modern side of the amarr and minmatar. Kindof weary of the usual Amarr = spanish inquisition and Minmatar = nude drumcircles.
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I would just like for a change to see PF or whatever else focusing a little on the modern side of the amarr and minmatar. Kindof weary of the usual Amarr = spanish inquisition and Minmatar = nude drumcircles.
Pretty much this.
i want more focus on the immense stability and resilience of Amarrian culture and society. Also the way in which the Minmatar dealt with the economic shock of having hundreds of systems dropped into their laps post-rebellion, and learning to manage those systems in the short time they have been a 'unified' nation.
Both have overcome immense challenges and this really isn't looked at enough.
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I've never trolled on the IGS so I really wouldn't know what that's all about.
Are there some tips you could give me, maybe?
Veik troll detected.
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Started off as an observer with the occasional comment, then got sucked into a more active poster due to certain individuals.
I may end up going back to simply observing.
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I would just like for a change to see PF or whatever else focusing a little on the modern side of the amarr and minmatar. Kindof weary of the usual Amarr = spanish inquisition and Minmatar = nude drumcircles.
Pretty much this.
i want more focus on the immense stability and resilience of Amarrian culture and society. Also the way in which the Minmatar dealt with the economic shock of having hundreds of systems dropped into their laps post-rebellion, and learning to manage those systems in the short time they have been a 'unified' nation.
Both have overcome immense challenges and this really isn't looked at enough.
Yeah maybe but I was even more concerned about the modernity. I'm weary of Gallente and Caldari being more advanced or whatever. Caldari may have the tech geeks trait from PF for some of their megas, but people still seem to think that Amarr ship are powered by slaves and prayers and Minmatar ships by charcoal or something. That only the gallente have access to high tech entertainment implants, that the Amarr are somehow all of the same medieval catholic church with the exact same beliefs and doctrines, that they live in stone castles, and the Minmatar in the steppes hunting lions.
Etc etc.
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I think I laughed for a solid week when Anslo mistook Celeste for a Gallente purist/raving nationalist. Of course she didn't correct him: that error was as much a win for her as it was for me.
Don't be bringin' me up in dis bitch....who are you again? :S No seriously I forget this.
As for me, I don't remember. It all blurs together one rage post after another...I've seen some shit man. :eek:
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I think I laughed for a solid week when Anslo mistook Celeste for a Gallente purist/raving nationalist. Of course she didn't correct him: that error was as much a win for her as it was for me.
Don't be bringin' me up in dis bitch....who are you again? :S No seriously I forget this.
As for me, I don't remember. It all blurs together one rage post after another...I've seen some shit man. :eek:
Oh, it was some random rant about Caille's being a cesspool of consumerism that people stupidly, willingly dive into without realizing that they are being manipulated by the powers that lurk beneath the crystalline streets. Or some wildly paraphrased version of that.
Nothing important whatsoever.
Who am I? I'm a lot of different people, none of them important. :D
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Yeah maybe but I was even more concerned about the modernity. I'm weary of Gallente and Caldari being more advanced or whatever. Caldari may have the tech geeks trait from PF for some of their megas, but people still seem to think that Amarr ship are powered by slaves and prayers and Minmatar ships by charcoal or something. That only the gallente have access to high tech entertainment implants, that the Amarr are somehow all of the same medieval catholic church with the exact same beliefs and doctrines, that they live in stone castles, and the Minmatar in the steppes hunting lions.
Etc etc.
You make a lot of great points here except for the underlined one, which I'd like to question in a different thread (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=5160.0).
Mostly given up on the IGS as a place for anything of merit to occur. Nice to see everyone taking so readily to the minmatar bashing though.
I totally understand how you feel sometimes. I can get very upset with the Anti-Liberal slant, to the point where it negatively affects my desire to roleplay with the greater community. It's a problem of mine, where IC and OOC can blur for me and leads to frustrations when my own chosen faction is dogpiled.
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Mostly given up on the IGS as a place for anything of merit to occur. Nice to see everyone taking so readily to the minmatar bashing though.
I totally understand how you feel sometimes. I can get very upset with the Anti-Liberal slant, to the point where it negatively affects my desire to roleplay with the greater community. It's a problem of mine, where IC and OOC can blur for me and leads to frustrations when my own chosen faction is dogpiled.
/me hugs Katrina
Exactly =(
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Mostly given up on the IGS as a place for anything of merit to occur. Nice to see everyone taking so readily to the minmatar bashing though.
I totally understand how you feel sometimes. I can get very upset with the Anti-Liberal slant, to the point where it negatively affects my desire to roleplay with the greater community. It's a problem of mine, where IC and OOC can blur for me and leads to frustrations when my own chosen faction is dogpiled.
/me hugs Katrina
Exactly =(
You're both in awkward places, really - Colelie was not something the Gallente would side with you about, of -course- the Amarr are going to snipe, and Caldari... well, they've got their own dogmas. Meanwhile, I-RED is kind of a lone star of friendliness and liberalism amidst a sea of xenophobes and suspicious people.
I can remember when we were the target of choice for everyone and their dog. Didn't really bother me, as I was quite content as playing the bad guy, but that was just my character and my position, which I admit doesn't apply to you guys.
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Truth be told, I primarily use IGS as a place for the political agenda setting relevant to the organization my characters are a part of. I don't really partake in RP for the vicarious feels as much as the enjoyment of pursuing fictional political agendas and the creation of worldviews and ideology. My own characters thrive in adversarial scenarios and if others try to "dogpile" them, then that's a challenge I and they are more than willing to accept.
Hell, I even make it easy for others by often providing the very ammunition they can use to fire at them whenever they want. Although I find it strange that others would readily try and dismiss what they often say as merely, "Anti-Liberal bashing," or "Dogpiling the Minnies." When in fact they are deliberate acts congruent with their fictional agendas:
Of course they're going to bash Ishukone and the Liberals because they are loyal to Kaalakiota and thus direct competitors in a variety of markets.
Of course they're going to do everything in their power to weaken and isolate the Republic if given the opportunity because that puts Kaalakiota and by extension the State in a stronger negotiating position against them.
What do people want? That we all hold in-character hands in the spirit of friendship and brotherhood lest someone gets their precious feelings hurt in fictitious verbal and written exchanges?
Seriously.
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I imagine that some people want something in between your example of friendship and brotherhood, and the current situation where every damn IGS thread or summit conversation involving a member of EM becomes derailed into another Colelie mudslinging free-for-all.
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I don't think I'm patting myself on the back too much by saying that I've done a lot to keep the issue of Colelie alive. I've been enjoying the new grey areas that are developing in Fed-Republic RP, and I think it's an interesting development.
That said, I'm not particularly interested in beating that drum if all it does is make people miserable.
I've created a poll where you can chime in on whether or not I should just drop it and let you all get back to business as usual (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?board=2.0). I promise, I'll consider the results of it binding, no matter what.
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The problem with events like Colelie is that they lean on - not saying that they do, but they heavily lean on - a serious unbalance leading to pretty much everyone except the faction on the wrong side of said balance to take free potshots at them.
And you know the mutual love between the IGS and The Low Hanging Fruit.
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Watch it, K-Ry. That's my Virtua-wife you're talkin' about there. D:<
Vincent, I am in lowsec again (going to learn me some Gunboat Diplomicy (non-pirate tyep))
I am thinking about posting in a topic about "what you do outside of pod?" that I think of Karmilla, and how to woo her to become my #1 Slave..... If I do post that, I am hoping to properly derail that thread.
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To the original question, I became an IGS warrior almost since the beggining, as it was an interesting and fun part of RP. Old-Seph probably has hundreds of posts in his account and was a well known character in IGS in his time. Problem came when, as Orange put it, conversations didn't change.
New Seph suffers that even more, as his personality is more mainstream and more rigid, he gets stuck and bored more often with repeating conversations. So he isn't as active a poster as he was when I first returned to EVE and now usually only posts when something catches his eye (well, not this month as I've cancelled my subscription due to vacations). As for trolling, I wouldn't consider myself a troll, nor Catillah. But he has trolled on a couple occasions, he's usually relatively serious about what he says.
Amarr = spanish inquisition
Actually, you just fell into the common stereotype there. Spanish wasn't the worst inquisition, nor the one that killed the most, a "position" that corresponds to those countries where there were actual wars of religion.
Now, not trying to say "you're doing it wrong" or "now you suck, you spanish hater" or anything like it. Just trying to point out how sometimes it's hard to break the stereotypes, even when you're conscious of their existance. So, it's logical (even if harmful) that most players view amarr as little more than the Warhammer 40k Empire + slavery together.
And I wholeheartedly agree that the way to break this is for prime fiction to focus on other complementary sides of those two cultures.
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Amarr = spanish inquisition
Actually, you just fell into the common stereotype there. Spanish wasn't the worst inquisition, nor the one that killed the most, a "position" that corresponds to those countries where there were actual wars of religion.
Now, not trying to say "you're doing it wrong" or "now you suck, you spanish hater" or anything like it. Just trying to point out how sometimes it's hard to break the stereotypes, even when you're conscious of their existance. So, it's logical (even if harmful) that most players view amarr as little more than the Warhammer 40k Empire + slavery together.
And I wholeheartedly agree that the way to break this is for prime fiction to focus on other complementary sides of those two cultures.
Yeah, I could have just said medieval inquisition, but I mostly played on the trope because the Spanish Inq is well known by most.
My main pet peeve is that while I can understand that some quite conservative positions can be expected from families like Ardishapur with their crude rituals of hand mutilations and the likes, who also seem to put the emphasis on some very old and outdated punishments, and while I acknowledge that the Amarr are definitely not western culture, I also happen to believe that the Amarr Empire are still eons ahead of what we know now, and like all others nations, they are a modern one and not a medieval one. They do not think like medieval kings and inquisitors.
So yes, while I actually expect to see hardliner judgement calls and cries of heresy, burning at the stake, or whatever, I also expect them to be a minority, where the actual game happens behind politics and schemes at play. I expect them to happen behind the heavy amarrian bureaucracy, etc. I do not see the TC like the medieval inquisition, but rather like the Académie Française with teeth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_fran%C3%A7aise) (you know, like CONCORD are like the UN with balls... kindof) who are here to normalize the orthodox view and provide general guidelines to make sure that scriptures remain coherent (and also according to the will of the current emperor/empress).
I just find regrettable that we never hear of the liberal, more modern side of the Empire. Amarrians proponents of the free discourse of theological matters, or a more modern view of the concept of God itself. With all the hints in the lore about the Scriptures and the Amarr religion, it's quite easy to see that it's not a repressive religion against science, at the contrary. It's not a religion that tries to explain the origin of the universe. I have yet to find a single scripture copycat of the christian Book of Genesis, for example. And yet I see continually very christian/western references to the Amarr religion ICly, where God is a supernatural all loving father, where you have to pray for his love or whatever - where in the Amarr religion is actually like the Old Testament, God is neither a Good or Bad entity, just a ruthless force akin to the universe. The Amarr are extremely devout not because they want to be loved by their God, but because they are told to kneel in humility before what the Universe and God actually represent.
Eventually I still expect to see more amarrian modernists like Ashar was in the past, with an innovative view on theological beliefs with the very modern and scientific background of the Amarr. Things like the sanctity of flesh are perfect matter for that to develop, but unfortunately, they also seem to directly ring the bell in most players to the current RL conflicts between religion and science.
Maybe i'm completely interpretating it wrong, and again, I fully expect and actually want to continue to witness the more common trope of the devout amarrian out there, but I just miss the true liberal amarrian modernists. And the main issue is that as much as I am perfectly confident to be able to make my character defend herself perfectly well ICly against call for heresy or whatever, the simple fact that she is completely alone and isolated in such a fashion, and also considering the reaction of most people ICly or OOCly to it who are often just unable to understand why I actually play it that way, well, it just seems to everyone that i'm actually playing some kind of apostate or heretic, which is completely and blatantly false.
Sorry for the rant, but it's mostly the whole story of my struggle since the very beginning.
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:lol: Kazuma.
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I lurked in silence for quite a while trying to figure out who was who and what was what before actually getting up the nerve to post anything. I wanted to make sure not to cause waves or make myself look foolish. I don't recall what it was that prompted my first posts on the IGS but, I imagine that it was in response to some especially outlandish statement that would have infuriated Ana so much that she simply couldn't contain herself. ;)
As to when I felt that I was a forum warrior? I dunno. Can't really say that I feel I am one. Enfant terrible and part-time provocateur maybe but, not really a warrior.
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I would like to think that most of my posts have been along the lines of trying to be a voice of reason...except for some of the posts I've made addressing DK directly; the last ones, I kind of let go of thinking it through and just went with gut feeling. As fun as it was at the moment, grew tired of it quickly, in part due to the repetitive dismissal and knowledge that nothing was going to come of it.
At the end of the day, I find that most of the things I post are more out of a way to either a). display the character's loyalties/politics/beliefs/ideologies b). engage in a form of play-by-post RP or c). attempt to provoke a response from characters to see where they stand on the subject.
I also get a kick out of reading some of the posts, but those rarely influence whether I will post or not on IGS.