Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => The Speakeasy: OOG/Off-topic Discussion => Topic started by: Seriphyn on 17 Jul 2015, 21:49
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A good number of us have long abandoned EVE to instead move over to FFXIV. It's a very theme park MMO, sure, but is easily the best of its kind out there. While the 2.0 "A Realm Reborn" Main Story Quest is average at best (attributed to limited time and budget rebuilding the game from disastrous 1.0), the 2.1 to 2.55 patch series demonstrates increasing improvement in the quality of writing and worldbuilding, while 3.0 "Heavensward" (the game's first expansion) is absolutely exceptional in its quality. The Main Story Quest of 3.0 rivals and exceeds many single player games in its drama and impact; by far, Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward has the best story of any MMO on the market.
While the overall theme of the game is Good vs Evil, it does this in the backdrop of a very grey and well-realized world of nation-states trying to work together for the common good while simultaneously attempting to overcome their differences and disagreements; they often don't like each other. You have the Sultanate of Ul'dah, a constitutional monarchy de facto run by a group of six of that country's richest citizens, who are accused of trodding down on the numerous refugees who flock to the nation thinking they can build a better life. The thalassocracy of Limsa Lominsa is a pirate city administered by a military dictator who hopes to introduce a proper concept of statehood for the city's long history of piracy and barbarism. Finally, Gridania is a sylvan city-state existing at the whims of the Elementals in the Black Shroud, a great forest. Their blue-and-orange morality sours the opinion of outsiders. There is also the Holy See of Ishgard, a highly xenophobic theocracy run by an Archbishop and four High Houses, who are zealously waging a millenium-long war against the dragons. All of these states must face down the Garlean Empire, a technologically advanced state determined to conquer Eorzea and defeat the primals, who are powerful beings summoned to existence by the will of mortals...funnily enough, you too are seeking to defeat these primals.
The game is very attractive and offers a lot of tools for roleplaying. The game proscribes lore for the existence of player-characters (rather than not address it at all) and just about every other game activity you might do. Given this is a Final Fantasy game, lore and consistency is central to their game design alongside making a functional and enjoyable MMO. The wardrobe and costume selection is vast, and you are very much able to purchase plain city clothing to play as a regular citizen or some sort of artisan. You can even join one of the three standing armies of the main city-states and spin yourself as a soldier or officer of that army (a lot of the clothing that NPCs wear you can acquire yourself). With lip-syncing, click-looking, an idle pose and emote library, the tools for everyday roleplay are there. The music is great, too; composed by Nobuo Uematsu of course.
For those interested, Balmung is the main roleplay server (There's also Gilgamesh, but...realistically, Balmung is what you want). It can be a bitch to get onto, but if you're interested in playing, do look out for me in-game. My name is 'Kale Aideron', and I have been playing since September 2013 (you can also add me on Skype as 'seriphyn'). It is certainly nice to play an MMO with a big budget, administered by developers who care about lore. New content is added roughly every 3 months, as is the progression of the Main Story Quest...which can definitely a lot of ambience and narrative to your everyday roleplaying. Now, I understand it won't be everyone's cup of tea, since EVE really is a different beast, and FFXIV is quite far apart from it. Nonetheless, it's definitely worth a shot if you fancy something different, but I will say, due to the nature of what kind of MMO it is, it will take some time to properly invest yourself into it. Perhaps the same could be said of EVE!
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Tried it, didn't like it. Themepark MMOs just aren't my thing anymore.
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Tried it, didn't like it. Themepark MMOs just aren't my thing anymore.
Seriously. Like any other themepark MMO the game is fun for two months, then you realize you're no longer having fun and instead it's all about the grind. It's good, as themepark MMOs go, but it has not found the solution to the content ceiling problem nor the way it has to gate content behind grinding of some sort to eke out some more playtime.
I also suspect a lot of people will have the same problems I did with the extreme changes in tone when the game goes from serious storyline to utterly stupid anime bullshit and back to serious but wait here's silly manderville men and then Ul'dah is suddenly short one shortie etc etc. It could have been a world to immerse oneself in, but the whiplash from taking certain desert dwelling nasties seriously and suddenly finding zombie gentlemen dancing to Thriller by Michael Jackson kills that. At least for me.
And honestly, poaching players? That's just not cool whether it's between corps or between games, man.
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I played the original for a while, then was in the tests for ARR launch. I am possibly still the head of a small FC for RP alts on a non-RP World.
Agreed that the story is pretty outstanding and there's a bit of lore to chew on. My problem with the game is that I cannot play casually and get a respectable amount of participation along with the rest of the community. It would take weeks perhaps months of daily grinds to slowly erode how far behind I am on the content curve. Squenix do address the gear disparity a bit with the introduction and adjustment of tomes, but it really seems to me to be designed to be the only game you can play, and woe be to those who cannot play for a couple hours every day.
It's a shame because I really liked the time I did get to play.
Oh God but the fucking crafting. Never again.
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I just can't get into MMOs like that anymore. Eve Online ruined them for me!
(Though frankly, I haven't been logging in much either. Fricking Dark Souls II!)
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Could you talk a bit more about the gameplay itself, what you can do, what you can't do, etc ?
I have watched a few reviews so I don't think i'm going to invest in it but, I would also like to get your view on it...
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Standard fantasy themepark gameplay. World divided into zones, capitals and hubs with different themes and level requirements. Occasionally a zone will be sufficiently large to contain different level areas. Fairly well designed in this regard, but it's the same as usual mechanics wise.
Ordinary trinity gameplay, really. Tank, DPS and Healer. Pretty good mix of WoW-like cooldown based gameplay and reasonably fast "action" movement, especially in group fights.
Where it shines are the bossfights, particularly the Primals. Basically, you can queue up for a single bossfight and be back in fifteen minutes to half an hour barring a horrible group. Quite good boss designs mechanic wise and on higher difficulty tiers they do become challenging. There's a reason "we beat Titan!" is an enormously satisfying cheer.
Bit grindy when you hit the level cap, because you really do want to grind some other classes as well (you multiclass on one character rather than make multiples) and as you've already gone through the storyline you basically only get to grind the rest. Not a particularly good mechanic I feel, but that might just be me really getting fucking tired of grind based gameplay.
You also need to grind hunts or other things to improve gear, etc. It's grindy as fuck.
Quests usually fall into the usual MMO "kill x number of y" things, or fetch quests etc etc.
There's a lot of mechanics in place to promote group play, however. Events will pop up in the zone where you can join in and fight as groups, and there's an absolutely fantastic level sync mechanic in place where any character can "sync" to an event or dungeon's level and play... let's say a fifty paladin doing a level twenty dungeon along with their mates without just steamrolling the place. It's even encouraged on a daily basis by rewarding you for doing a random dungeon and then you'll be matched with a group that needs a tank, healer, dps or whatever you play as well as trying to mix experienced with new players.
FFXIV is also a fairly friendly MMO. In general, people tend to be more patient with new players and willing to let them learn instead of just complaining and bitching if something is suboptimal. This obviously gets much less apparent at level cap and higher difficulty bosses and such, but while leveling it certainly seems to be a much nicer community than most MMOs.
There's a hate it or love it part of the game, though. Crafting.
To craft anything, it requires a whole new class to level 1-50 (or whatever the cap is now). Armorer, blacksmith, woodworker etc (I don't remember the actual names) and they're supplied by fishermen, miners and herbalists etc. Your performance as a crafter will depend on your level, your gear and tools and luck. Working on a single item will be a bit of a minigame where you balance the amount of crafting you can do, with the quality of the item and the quality of the materials you work with and so on.
It's a serious fucking grind. Massive grind.
Combine this with some materials only being available at certain times of the gameworld's day/night cycle and so on and it can become nightmarish or extremely satisfying depending entirely on you and your tastes in gameplay.
Source for the above: End-game Paladin tank, White Mage healer and Scholar heal/dps hybrid, maxed armorer, miner and blacksmith and at the time the only female Roegadyn on the damn server. This is a while back though and does not take the current expansion or subsequent patches into account.
As for roleplay, it's obviously as limited as themepark mmo's go, but have some fairly decent emotive tools and FC Headquarters for gathering points etc etc.
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I like FFXIV a whole lot, though it's basically the polar opposite of Eve in every way. I can't imagine there's much overall crossover in the sorta people who would enjoy them.
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Long-term at any rate. Short-term it's a breath of fresh air and a lovely community. Then the fuckin' grind and themepark hits you and that brief crush turns into "omfg what was I drinking last night?!".
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I'm not so unequivocal on the black and white themepark versus sandbox. Of course I have my sweet spot for sandboxes, but ultimately, it's a lot more complicated than that. I mean, I have lost all interest in the game of Eve Online for like 3-4 years, and am still there solely because of the community and the players I know, and the few bits of RP I can get out of a setting I still like, even with all the issues of the lore. At least, the lore tries something (looking at you, Star Citizen...). I feel like a good combination of gameplay, lore and community is what makes it work for me, no matter the format.
I sure as hell loathe farming and grind. I never got into that and it started a few weeks after I started my first MMO, which was SWG, and grindy as only old MMOs had the secret to.
I can, however, enjoy a good story, if there is a good story. I can enjoy it ever more if I can run it with friends, or in a community. Especially in a community.
Yes, I lack time because I work, and I do not have all the free time I used to have, but I can still manage to free evenings and week ends to devote to something i'm hooked to. For example, I very much got into TSW when it got released because I had friends playing it too, and doing it together was fun, and the story was excellent (best MMO storytelling so far, hands down, looking at you, stupid SWTOR). So yes, I even enjoyed a few bits spent on SWTOR, even if I don't hold its storytelling and clunky cinematics in high regard. I had the same friends playing it, and enjoyed it for.. maybe a month. Way more that it deserves.
I am not closed to give FF XIV a try, but not alone. I fear that I would just stall past a few days otherwise.
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Honestly, I don't see how EVE is so much different from the usual MMO(RP)G to merit making up a sharp distinction between 'themepark' and 'sandbox'. It's in my opinion more about how you approach a game.
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Story is good and worth the playthrough. The dungeons and such are good and worth the playthrough. Tanking is fun and worth leveling it.
... but you run out of all those things eventually.
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Honestly, I don't see how EVE is so much different from the usual MMO(RP)G to merit making up a sharp distinction between 'themepark' and 'sandbox'. It's in my opinion more about how you approach a game.
It's quite simple really. Eve Online relies almost entirely on players to generate content. Themepark MMOs relies on devs constantly adding more setpieces to generate content. Eve Online getting boring? Well, you have the option to go and start shite and piss off a coalition or two and there, you got content. World of Warcraft getting boring? Well, you best hope your friendly devs will add yet another dungeon to raid then.
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Story is good and worth the playthrough. The dungeons and such are good and worth the playthrough. Tanking is fun and worth leveling it.
... but you run out of all those things eventually.
Well, it's kind of similar for Eve. Once you have tried out most of the content (and I agree there is a lot), you run out of all those things eventually. Granted, it took me years instead of months for that.
Also, nothing bars players from themepark MMOs to create their own content... That is actually a necessity for most RP communities.
I think there is a just certain will in the mentality of eve online to feel a bit like the special snowflake MMO, but actually, the only difference is that sandboxes offer more tools and props to play in the sand than most themeparks (that offer parks instead), but I have also seen some themepark MMOs that offer a similar amount of community tools and gameplay tools to their players (SWG, or WoW, to speak of the most successful, and WoW keeps its success precisely because of that, something that SWTOR never understood).
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FF needed a sub, right? I think that's why I quit playing it. I'm unemployed and can't afford anything that requires subs right now. It would be nice to find something to play with people I know, though. Been a surreal period of time since leaving EVE and not having anyone to play things with.
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Alright, no matter what, I think I decided to make the leap and am going to try it and see where it goes.. I feel alone by doing so, but i'll try to add people if I manage to..
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Well, lemme know what World yer on, if you want. Happy to go through beginner steps with ye.
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I will try to get into Balmung where everything seems to be, but I'm not holding my breath... I don't feel like starting anything elsewhere since it's doomed to just be... me.
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No matter where you get in, you're likely to meet people. FFXIV has many flaws, but at least when I played it the community was fantastic and welcoming for newbies. Finding yourself a Free Company should be fairly easy and the game is very well constructed around promoting group play and having fun with people.
And honestly, instancing/dungeoning/whatever you call it is fun in FFXIV, especially with the level sync mechanic being what it is. The dungeon finder tends to try and group experienced people with newbies so there'll always be someone to teach you what to do and the community being what it is (was? I haven't played in a while) that tends to be enjoyable.
For all my gripes with the game (too much tone change between srsfaes end of the world stuff and retardedly silly/goofy stuff, endless grinds at level cap etc etc) I have to admit that as far as themepark MMOs go, FFXIV is possibly the most enjoyable one out there for the first month or two, before you hit the content cap.
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Yeah well i'm not really concerned that much for the first levels and weeks, it's more after that if I want to do it in a RP/immersive environment, it's Balmung.
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I have embraced my inner weeaboo.
(It's immensely amusing to me that some FFXIV players seem to be using "weeb" as a derogatory term.)
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You made a miqo'te, didn't you? ;)
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I swear I was the only female Roegadyn I ever saw in that entire damn game, except for NPCs.
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What's the issue with Miqo'te? They are the khaajit version of the game, albeit less cheesy I find (not fond of the anthropomorphized animals of the Elder Scrolls, they feel just awkward). They fit perfectly well in the fairytale tone that the FF license has often had...
I saw quite a bit of diversity in the game actually. Lots of miqo'te yeah, but equally if not more lalafells. Au'ras are starting to get more and more spread also, even with them being a 3.0 race... Rogaedyn, true, are a bit lacking but I saw several males (they are so nice when tanks play them, easy to spot and select...). I saw a female one yersterday.
Honestly, I would tend to say that the only race that is a bit lacking in numbers on that server is Rogaedyn... Especially females, but I have seen some. For the other races I have seen more or less equally both genders. I'm pleasantly surprised, I was expecting a huge lack of balance..
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Catgirls and lolis do tend to be the most popular, yeah.
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I was just teasing Jev about the weeb comment, catgirls being the trope and such. There's definitely diversity, but my impression is that there is a heavy slant toward female Miqo'te and Au Ra right now.
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And those... err... I forgot their names. Not charms. Mystics. Transformations. Glories? GLAMOURS! That was it! That took me five minutes, I swear. Anyway, the amount of epic heroes wearing underwear to battle? Especially if they're catgirls? A tad too many. No sweetie, a metal bikini does not count as armor.
Granted, I suppose that's a problem in almost any MMO, but still. I'll grant you going helmet-less for the rule of cool, but it's combat, not beach volleyball ladies.
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Ahh, maybe it varies heavily between servers too, I wouldn't know...
I have seen very few of those on Hyperion for now. Once or twice an underwear guy (not even girl) riding in the wilderness, not much more...
EDIT: Oh also, I don't know if again it's a server specific thing or not, but people have been extremely helpful so far. First MMO I find where people are being so nice, maybe along TSW. 2 people in two days spontaneously asking me if I need help or have questions, and the second one offered me a full set of stuff he crafted for me as well as half of another one for upper levels...