Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Synthia on 12 Dec 2014, 11:29
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In a time before CTCS, for better or for worse, the Sani Sabik RP community was largely dominated by the views of one particular player, and other views were squeezed out, or at least appeared to be. Those who know who that was, know who it was. Those that don't, don't really need to know. That player seems to have left, so let's not say anything harsh about them.
With the creation of CTCS, which from the beginning had a policy of not claiming exclusivity over interpretation of the Scriptures and the whole Sani Sabik religion, a number of different Sani Sabik groups have come, and gone, during that time.
The Sani Sabik community, such as it is, is now a plurality of views, with some groups and individuals having wildly different ideas. But is that a good thing ?
Within CTCS, there are three aspects of Sani Sabik rp that are particularly present:
1. Missionary work - converting the heathens and heretics.
2. Archaeotheology - searching for the ancient secrets of the Takmahl scriptures and devices.
3. Experimental theology - searching for theological revelations through examination of the universe.
But is any of this beneficial to Sani Sabik RP, and to the wider RP community ? Was it better when there was more of a single viewpoint ?
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The poll is a bit off putting.
But anyway, My opinion as a Sani Sabik roleplayer is that there are not many Sani Sabik roleplayers and half of what there is are "in the closet" hiding their religion. Which in my opinion is contradictory to the religion itself, being about self-empowerment and strength. I don't think all Sani Sabik roleplayers should be Blood Raiders either. But if we compare to other roleplaying groups in EVE, how many Caldari roleplayers hide their ancestry? Same with any other group. Most groups are proud of who they are yet in "Sani Sabik" half of the people there are in hiding.
I think CTCS is great for the Sani Sabik community. They do not hide who they are for one. They provide useful information for other roleplayers. And they actively seek out interaction.
The Sani Sabik plurality of views is in issue even alluded to in the prime fiction with Omir Sarikusa killing off rival sects, the Darkonnen being what they are, Gallentean pop star iterations of Sani Sabik, as well as those "in the closet" Amarrians. Without making this about real life religions, this happens with religions.
Morwen can spout recite better than anyone I know "the three tenants" for those who do not know. But they have been established. Now would it be beneficial for Sani Sabik to work together like Amarrians, yes. Anyanka will help any Sani Sabik anywhere if requested.
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Why am I being brought into this?
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Why am I being brought into this?
Because you know more about that lore than I do or anyone else I have talked to IC or OOC about it. This is not a snipe at you either.
Edit: I only used the word spout because I envision that when you speak, that you spout or spew your words. I was sincerely trying to be complimentary.
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The word "spout" implies otherwise.
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Sani rp? Non-existent, as far as I can see.
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I chose vampirism and sparkles.
Trying too hard to get attention from others was unavailable as a third option.
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The word "spout" implies otherwise.
Perhaps you are an important faucet of this community.... or was it facet? I don't know anymore, this whole thing is so draining and causing my post quality to sink even lower.
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The quantity of your punning overflows, however.
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To be brutally honest;
there aren't enough options, and half the ones that are there seem bitter.
I'm not entirely sure what my feelings on Blood Raiders are, but I think the sooner we get rid of the stupid "sparkly space lesbian vampires" and the airheaded "Blood Raider Barbie" stereotypes, the better.
Neither of them inspire my interest in the RP'ers of the faction.
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I voted Theology. It's the only one that's actually important.
Having more than one viewpoint is perfectly fine. It's implied at the very least that there are different views within the Sabik Faith. She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named wasn't as bad as everyone thought she was. I've RP'd with her on a few occasions and talked to her about the Sabik as well, and in all that I never had a problem with her. (Provided I have the right person in mind, and Im pretty sure I do)
The poll is a bit off putting.
But anyway, My opinion as a Sani Sabik roleplayer is that there are not many Sani Sabik roleplayers and half of what there is are "in the closet" hiding their religion. Which in my opinion is contradictory to the religion itself, being about self-empowerment and strength. I don't think all Sani Sabik roleplayers should be Blood Raiders either. But if we compare to other roleplaying groups in EVE, how many Caldari roleplayers hide their ancestry? Same with any other group. Most groups are proud of who they are yet in "Sani Sabik" half of the people there are in hiding.
There is something to be said for not showing ones hand. A lot of Sabik, and especially those still in Amarr space, would probably prefer to remain "in the closet" as you put it simply because of the negative connotations the sect has gotten from SWMNBN'd and others over the years. There are other reasons too like the whole espionage/spy angle or simply waiting for the right moment when it'll hurt someone the most or cause a big uproar. Silas...I'm looking at you, and that was awesome btw and I hate that I missed it.
Everyone has an idea of what Sabik RP should be or could be but honestly it doesn't really matter. Just like most modern religions theres a lot of interpretations to be had. If Silas/SWMNBN's take on Sabik was all hellfire and brimstone like a Southern Baptist church then CTCS may be a bit more mellow and Presbyterian.
I'm not entirely sure what my feelings on Blood Raiders are, but I think the sooner we get rid of the stupid "sparkly space lesbian vampires" and the airheaded "Blood Raider Barbie" stereotypes, the better.
Attention whores be attention whores. In some way or another everyone does it.
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It's a big cluster, it's a wide umbrella, do what you like. *shrug*
There's as many sects as you can imagine doing as many different varieties of the religion as you can imagine.
People having an issue with Revan's take on it seems silly to me for those reasons. That she was IC popular and occasionally sucked all the oxygen out of the room is exactly the point of the character, and frankly it worked, like it or lump it. Dislike her or not she put a ridiculous amount of work into lore building, public events, and content generation for the community. Occasional IGS shittery aside she contributed a lot to the game.
If you think she was doing it wrong then you've got to work that much harder to make your case IC.
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My character's worked with the Sabik, including CTCS, on a few occasions, providing "stock" for whatever they do with them. I enjoy the challenge of the dilema it presents to her - Karynn is not evil or sadistic, but her vanity and ego compels her to prove herself as a woman who gets things done.
To that end, she doesn't question what the Sabik do with their stock - she just does business and nothing more. It's a tricky situation, because in order to do my own RP justice, I've got to shut down any potential RP for the blooder by not being interested... :ugh:
Karynn's most recent job for the Sabik was utterly heinous, and has lead to a fundamental shift in her character. I don't want to go into that here, it'll have more impact if discovered IC, but I'll say that the blooder involved played the character brilliantly and left me chilled and horrified at what I'd got my character into, and indeed, how I'd played out her response!
So, that's my opinion. I voted "Theology". The other options are a bit silly, tbh.
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*reports Kat for puns*
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I think Sabik philosophy being what it is, leads to individuals being more likely to dominate the Sabik RP scene as opposed to groups. (this may not have been the case before I got involved in RP, I've heard Blood Inquisition was a pretty big deal in their time. CTCS is a group but it certainly seems like one or two members produce most of their content.) This trend towards individuals influences the different flavors of Sabik RP. I don't think that's a problem. Sani Sabik is not unified in any sense. Members of the Sabik faith are scattered throughout the cluster. As Anyanka mentioned they don't even agree about who is Sani Sabik and sometimes kill each other off. I don't think there is a wrong way to play Sabik, but the characters are probably going to strongly disagree with each other's philosophies, theology, methods, and legitimacy as Sabik.
For what it's worth I chose Theology and Being a space jerk to everyone.
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Most important part of Sani Sabik RP?
Imho:
1. Usage of blood in the majority of their rituals. Followers view blood as the essence of life and spirituality and believe that it has mystical powers.
2. The belief in 'savants'. (Usually anyone strong enough to enforce the view that they are 'savants'.)
3.The belief that that immortality is attainable through adherence to the Sani Sabik rituals.
In general I'd argue that Sani Sabik follow a 'Might makes Right' philosophy.
I'd deny that theology, that is the systematic and rational study of concepts of God and of the nature of religious truths, is of any major importance to the Sani Sabik at large: Just like most Amarr aren't theologians.
What is in my opinion important - in contrast to theology - to Sani Sabik RP is religion, in the sense of an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence (in this case, I'd argue, the rule of the strong over the weak and the imperative of acquiring strength).
I personally think that Sani Sabikism is in fact a 'theology-averse' religion, in the sense that the leaders wouldn't see any need to justify their teachings on grounds of rationality: They simply have the power to enforce their teachings, or their teachings are kind'a worthless by Sani Sabik standards anyway. The only reason Sani Sabik might have for 'theology' is in acquiring new followers for their cult, but there they seem to usually prefer the guise of foreign theology and the simple temptation that consist in acquiring and then unlimited use of power.
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Mithra gives a great analysis here.
In general though I'd equate the Sabik to the 'sith' and the 'dark side' in Star Wars.
Basically a useful outline for various levels of RP mustache twirling, but let's not kid ourselves as to any real, in depth philosophical underpinnings of the group that stand up to rigorous examination and debate.
The Sabik are primarily there to pew your boats, to kidnap ur children, to be the bad guys, and to be a foil for the more upright denizens in New Eden.
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CTCS is a group but it certainly seems like one or two members produce most of their content.
Valerie does the theology and being a huge jerk to people, as well as Takmahl archaeology.
I do some of the scientific research, of questionable ethicality.
Ritual Sacrifice hands out vague statements of doooom to anyone who is listening.
Evelyn does the meeting new people and talking to them about 'stuff'.
And some other people do some other things.
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And how many of those are played by different players?
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all of them
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Once again Nico says much of what was on my mind that I failed to express earlier in the thread. Good job!
Synthia: I wasn't trying to call out CTCS, just stating that I notice Valerie and Yourself more than other members.
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It's a big cluster, it's a wide umbrella, do what you like. *shrug*
There's as many sects as you can imagine doing as many different varieties of the religion as you can imagine.
People having an issue with Revan's take on it seems silly to me for those reasons. That she was IC popular and occasionally sucked all the oxygen out of the room is exactly the point of the character, and frankly it worked, like it or lump it. Dislike her or not she put a ridiculous amount of work into lore building, public events, and content generation for the community. Occasional IGS shittery aside she contributed a lot to the game.
If you think she was doing it wrong then you've got to work that much harder to make your case IC.
+1 to all of this.
Revan to me, represented the epitome of what it was to be sani sabik. She wasn't a good person, she didn't even try to be, she was unapologetically malicious, twisted, and cruel. She waved her giant money dick around and dominated anything sani sabik related. She was a terrible character, but she was supposed to be terrible. She was really fun to hate. To his credit, Nauplius seems to me like a very solid addition to the Sani Sabik community, he's so absolutely self assured of his absolute moral correctness in all things, its brilliantly facepalm inducing.
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The difficulty with Sabik is the same as it is with the other factions that are not extensively laid out: people have to create their own content and 'feel'. There is plenty of Raider PF, but little Sabik other than TBL. The constant theme running through the PF, in my opinion, is that of blood rituals and the general 'cult' atmosphere. Other than specifically Raider PF, a significant amount of other Sabik elements have been community created. The primary part I have always found odd is that the community leans more towards a 'weird archaic religion' feel than a 'cult' feel.
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The difficulty with Sabik is the same as it is with the other factions that are not extensively laid out: people have to create their own content and 'feel'. There is plenty of Raider PF, but little Sabik other than TBL. The constant theme running through the PF, in my opinion, is that of blood rituals and the general 'cult' atmosphere. Other than specifically Raider PF, a significant amount of other Sabik elements have been community created. The primary part I have always found odd is that the community leans more towards a 'weird archaic religion' feel than a 'cult' feel.
Elaborate! I mean the archaic religion vs cult feel. Are those mutually exclusive? Can you give examples?
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My personal two cents:
I feel like Sabik RPers such as Revan and Silas represented what is, to me, the most notable/important feature of the Sani Sabik - power. Others have already stated what I think, in a much more elegant manner. I believe, ultimately, the culture and rituals behind the Sani Sabik are just a manifestation of power, and the desire to obtain it through any available means. Power, wealth, influence, with maybe a dash of hedonism. These things are what Sani Sabik represent, to me.
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I'm probably going to end up making a point here. I don't know I'm only good at shit posting.
Sani Sabik, to me, is about doing what ever the hell you want. Just as much as it is about forcing the world to endure you for all eternity and about ritual use of blood.
It's a might makes right religion. Rationale and reasoning, don't particularly matter as much as 'I can kill you. Convert or I will' sort of deal in which huge swathes of people have absolutely no worth. . . Except as blood banks, playthings and slaves.
Sani Sabik aren't meant to be the good guy. They're meant to be a chaotic thing, following the laws of nature viewed through crimson tinted, superstitious glasses. So fragmented and different that, the three tenants and a shared appreciation for being a giant bag of spacepire dicks is what they have in common.
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My personal two cents:
I feel like Sabik RPers such as Revan and Silas represented what is, to me, the most notable/important feature of the Sani Sabik - power. Others have already stated what I think, in a much more elegant manner. I believe, ultimately, the culture and rituals behind the Sani Sabik are just a manifestation of power, and the desire to obtain it through any available means. Power, wealth, influence, with maybe a dash of hedonism. These things are what Sani Sabik represent, to me.
This, I really do wish I had a Sani Sabik character; they seem like a very fun group to play "WHY DID YOU DO THAT?!" "Because I want--- I mean because the red god deems it right."