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That there was a total information blockade during the Caldari occupation of Placid, only lifted when the Caldari Navy in the area was destroyed or driven out?

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Author Topic: Civilian/military distinctions (it's interesting I swear)  (Read 4172 times)

Gottii

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Re: Civilian/military distinctions (it's interesting I swear)
« Reply #15 on: 24 Oct 2010, 14:11 »

Well, that's kind of what I meant. With the Caldari, I would expect it might depend on corp, too. KK might have a requirement that everyone who is able spend a couple years with their military arm.

I think I would disagree that it is beyond the realm of possibility that an entity like the Republic would have a compulsory requirement. It may be a relic of more tumultuous times, but I don't think it is entirely unlikely to exist - even in a direct form (rather than via tribes). It wasn't so long the Republic was fighting for its existence, and I think it's still the mentality in a lot of quarters.

Actually, I could see the Caldari not have compulsory military service.  I could see them focusing on a smaller but efficient group of professional, volunteer soldiers, since that group would be better served to effectively use the Caldari's advanced technology, and above all its more cost-effective in the long run.
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Casiella

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Re: Civilian/military distinctions (it's interesting I swear)
« Reply #16 on: 24 Oct 2010, 15:26 »

In fact I don't think capsuleers are technically citizens of anything, aside from relation and association.

{citation needed}
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Chell Charon

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Re: Civilian/military distinctions (it's interesting I swear)
« Reply #17 on: 24 Oct 2010, 15:45 »

Both State and Federation could very easily have corporate structures that view military leadership, officer training, as a significant bonus when looking to fill manager positions?

Perhaps even to the level that a military service of a year or two is something to be planned/considered when parents do the Kindergarten -> university curriculum for their (to be) toddlers?  ;)

Amarr might well have it's subjects enlisting in order to improve their social standing. For example a wealthy merchant family having an heir who manages to distinguish themselves in service to the throne, just might eke out enough clout to marry into nobility afterwards?

Republic I don't know. Republic military (or parts thereof) might even prefer non-warriors for training. Not all warriors make for good soldiers. Warriors might comprise a larger share of planet side militias than of actual military?
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Mithfindel

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Re: Civilian/military distinctions (it's interesting I swear)
« Reply #18 on: 29 Oct 2010, 06:26 »

It is worth of note that who to salute isn't likely the same everywhere. Locally, there's a few people and things in specific that servicemen need to "honour" (when alone, snap into attention and salute/when in formation, command attention or parade: heads of state, national flags and funeral processions to name the most obvious), but when in uniform, a salute is the default greeting of a soldier. Similarly on speaking, locally we don't have the ridiculous "sir yes sir" culture, the superior officer is addressed by his title once in the beginning of the conversation and that's it.

For Amarr, the military would hold a strict system of ranks due to obvious reasons, but Holders and high-ranking clergy would likely be the object of the Amarr equivalent of a salute. It is noteworthy that they do have a class society, as hinted by some Ammatar news: A dirt-poor Holder is still strictly above a commoner who's rich enough to buy a few planets. Several Imperial bureaucrats might be saluted, as well, though most would be already clergy or Holders by their own right.

For Caldari, I assume that there's the default corporate structure, so people above you in the chain of command would be saluted, plus possibly superior officers of the corporate security in general (would have to check the fiction on this). For some more martial-oriented corporations (KK, Minedrill etc.), this might be extended to the entire corporation. If this is the matter, there's likely a cutoff at some point, however, so a rank-and-file security guard wouldn't salute a production line supervisor from another colony (except possibly when in that colony) but would salute the general manager of that colony visiting the guard's colony. We do, however, need to take account the identification of these people. Military (when not in combat) carries usually visible markings of their rank, but unless a similar rank system is implemented for civilians (work dress), enforcing salutes is not possible. Of course, it is highly possible that several corporations do have corporate-issue work clothes, so seeing someone dressed like a Hyasyoda personnel manager a Corporate Police Force officer would immediately know that saluting was in order.

For Gallente, I'd expect things to depend a lot on culture, as well. Culturally important figures might get saluted, even if the Federal Military Code directly wouldn't enforce it. Some members might have their own (para)military ground forces, but like the Amarr. The Intaki system, however, is the only attested case of a member-state having their "own" navy, in this case the Mordus' Legion Command. The paramilitaries and state militaries do not necessarily follow Federal code. However, I'd assume that the President as well as high leaders of the democratic instutions are saluted. (Can't remember off the bat, but there are likely countries where the Speaker of the Parliament is the Head of State - as a historical example, I think the USA was one before establishing the office of the President. In my native country, the Speaker comes before the Prime Minister in official protocol.)

Minmatar tribes might have their own customs. A lot depends on the old Minmatar culture and its current reconstruction. They might have a Gallente-style military, and on top of that special salutes used in tribal events, such as meeting your chief. To compare with the Amarr, certain high clergy in Amarr might receive a special salute or blessing from everyone below him (or her) in status, and for Minmatar the tribal chiefs and shamans might get a special greeting from the members of their tribe. Some of this might be used everyday, whereas some of it might be only preserved in ceremonies.
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Z.Sinraali

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Re: Civilian/military distinctions (it's interesting I swear)
« Reply #19 on: 29 Oct 2010, 10:52 »

Regardless of who is to be saluted, this is how it's done throughout the EVE cluster. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQDZOFhvabY
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Niko Varnok

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Re: Civilian/military distinctions (it's interesting I swear)
« Reply #20 on: 29 Oct 2010, 20:06 »

There is mention in one of the chronicles, about the Imperial Navy. "Kiss of the Soul"

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=03-apr-01

“This will not do.” The emperor said, his voice still strong despite his frail body. “I will not permit any military forces in space to be built or operated by anyone but the imperial navy. Allowing provincial governors to establish their own armed forces sets a very dangerous precedence that can only lead to future troubles.”

“The governors can have their ground forces, but I will not let them into space. The Amarr Navy will deal with this matter in due time. Need I remind you that the good of the whole empire comes before the individual lives of its inhabitants? Maybe I should make an example of one of you to refresh your memory.”

That was Emperor Heideran in YC105.


The House Navies, may be a loophole, or may be something else, depending on how strong the Imperial Law is, or the definition of military ships.

The news item from YC110 about the punishment of Kador after the invasion of Solitude,

http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2541&tid=4

,  mentions Heideran's decree and how it had not been enforced for several years.  It looks like there's no ambiguity in the law against the House Navies:  there's no political will to enforce it.
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