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[Esna Pitoojee]

Forcing a slave to sleep with someone is one of the things Esna has long ago decided must be done away with in slavery. He views slavery as a corrective, not permanent, measure; forcing someone to sleep with someone else - let alone carry their child - isn't very likely to produce a reformed person who may be released to take up a role in society again. To him, forced sexual favors is just another symptom of the prevailing view that slaves are not people to be helped or saved, but objects to be used.
Amusingly, he recently ran into an a former breeder slave in The Broken Piano, who was rather spiteful towards all Amarr. As soon as she told him what happened to her, he promptly apologized to her for her experiences, which took her completely off guard.

Slaves who actively choose to sleep with / seek a relationship with their owners is something Esna has rather more mixed feelings about - it's a fine line between being close to someone for your own reasons, and because they literally own and control you.

[Casiella]

I never really have been sure if PF lends any support to the theory that Amarrian religion requires chastity outside of marriage. That always seemed to me like something players bring with them based on current Christian teachings. More directly, though, Esna's viewpoint seems more in line with orthodox Amarrian teachings: if the purpose of slavery is enlightenment, then rape does not have a place in the arrangement. The Speaker of Truths chronicle seems to lend credence to this cultural view, at any rate.

(Side note: also one of my favorites because it appears to make reference to what most people today call the Old Testament. Based on the familiarity there, I'd assume that religious scholars, at least, would be familiar with other holy books related to the Catholic canon and possibly others as well. But that's probably best suited for another thread.)

[Louella Dougans]

also, in addition to what i said earlier, there is position of women in society.

arranged marriage + produced heirs to secure property may occur, but after that, the man + woman need not see each other again.

which means the existence of Mancubines. Because the alternative of chastity for teh next few decades doesn't make sense, since Amarr women have status. Or lesbians.

And a consequence of that, will be significant numbers of half-amarr children, because some women would want to have a child by their mancubine. 1% of a billion is still a large number.

And, what then would those children do? if the mancubine is a slave, then the child would not have any status at all, which I think the women would have a problem with. A noble woman's children with her husband would be her heirs, the ones with her mancubine must have some status, cannot be mere property for her heirs to dispose of if they feel like it.

So, the children have to be commoners, at least. Which would mean I think the mancubines also have to be commoners?

[Gottii]

Im rewriting Gottii's backstory so that he is an escaped Mancubine from the Empire...

[Gottii]

also, in addition to what i said earlier, there is position of women in society.

arranged marriage + produced heirs to secure property may occur, but after that, the man + woman need not see each other again.

which means the existence of Mancubines. Because the alternative of chastity for teh next few decades doesn't make sense, since Amarr women have status. Or lesbians.

And a consequence of that, will be significant numbers of half-amarr children, because some women would want to have a child by their mancubine. 1% of a billion is still a large number.

And, what then would those children do? if the mancubine is a slave, then the child would not have any status at all, which I think the women would have a problem with. A noble woman's children with her husband would be her heirs, the ones with her mancubine must have some status, cannot be mere property for her heirs to dispose of if they feel like it.

So, the children have to be commoners, at least. Which would mean I think the mancubines also have to be commoners?

Actually, in most racial slavery systems, you take the status of your least socially prominent ancestry.  If you were 3/4ths of the dominant race, and only a 1/4th of the slave race (and it was discernible at a glance), you were considered a member of the slave race.  Its one reason why women were much less likely to take slave lovers (at least in their years of highest fertility).

[Shalee Lianne]

Mancubine. lols.  I love it.

[Mitara Newelle]

I envision the Amarrian "sex with slaves" to be more of a "You, slave, come hither and service me" situation, and the Gallente "sexual slavery"  to more of the "person chained in a room whose sole purpose is to have sex with whoever".

In the Amarr scenario it seems more 'casual', and I would think be directed at the more subservient/willing slaves.  I mean, said Amarr just wants to get their rocks off, not have some huge confrontation or 'work' at it, ie forced sex/rape

EDIT: among the complacent/really brainwashed( ) slaves, it may even be considered a badge of honor of sorts. Just speculating

In the Gallente scenario, I'd imagine all kinds of not nice things happening to a very unwilling person.


My random 0.02ISK.

[Casiella]

What we need now is a holoseries, "Stacmon Vice".

[Inara Subaka]

I envision the Amarrian "sex with slaves" to be more of a "You, slave, come hither and service me" situation, and the Gallente "sexual slavery"  to more of the "person chained in a room whose sole purpose is to have sex with whoever".

In the Amarr scenario it seems more 'casual', and I would think be directed at the more subservient/willing slaves.  I mean, said Amarr just wants to get their rocks off, not have some huge confrontation or 'work' at it, ie forced sex/rape

EDIT: among the complacent/really brainwashed( ) slaves, it may even be considered a badge of honor of sorts. Just speculating

In the Gallente scenario, I'd imagine all kinds of not nice things happening to a very unwilling person.


My random 0.02ISK.

I'm going to agree with the "sex with slaves" description here, I don't think it's meant to be done out of malice or disdain for the slave, simply lacking the effort at the time to woo someone by their own efforts into bed (also, sleeping around in 'proper society' gets you a bad name in your social circles). Another thing to consider, the slaves are seen as part of the household, and if the owner is doing things correctly there's no worries about any medical problems (STDs being the most common) coming from "being serviced" by them that could come from outside the house and unknown people.

As for the brainwashing... well, for some castes of slaves, it is very likely considered an honor or privilege. Without going into details, this is used to a degree on Inara's estates. Which leads to another common misconception that all slaves have an undying hatred towards their owners; many, infact, care strongly for their owners, and a chance to be that intimate may be something they desire.

"Sexual slavery" is... it's a very different topic, and something that I highly doubt applies to the Empire as a whole (I'm sure there's a few people in the Empire that have 'sexual slaves', but I don't see it as prevalent).  If there's something in PF or historically that leads you to think that I'm mislead on this, please feel free to share.

[Mitara Newelle]

We are definitely on the same page, Inara.