Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE Character Development => Topic started by: Aria Jenneth on 20 May 2013, 14:24
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So, as many of you are now aware, I chose a month or so back to convert my long-running Eve character into a DUST 514 character. There are aspects of quasi-canon (the incompatible "genetic lottery") that have been put in place to argue that this isn't doable, and I'm curious what you guys think.
My reasoning is that there should be no real barrier to this sort of conversion if:
(1) The transition is one-way; it's not a revolving door. Capsuleer implants, practical skills, and (certainly for now) resources go out the airlock; you start from scratch as a DUST character and build your stats anew. This isn't a "hobby" in addition to a primary career; it's a new career, flat out, and one that's difficult if not impossible to return from.
(2) The transition is sufficiently RP-justified. I took my best crack at this (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=4561.0), though I don't really know whether it's any good past the first three chapters. (I did appreciate the couple of good reviews I got, but tend to take reviews from friends other than my ruthlessly frank former English teacher with a pinch of salt.)
(3) There's no concrete PF standing in the way. The genetic lottery thing would do that, partially, but I can think of at least two ways around it (clonejack, genetic tinkering) off the top of my head. (Why are we even considering genetics as an absolute bar to access in a society this advanced, anyway? If any piece or set of pieces of genetic code consistently produced capsuleers, the Caldari could just turn the tube child program into an egger factory, if they wanted.)
Of course, what's good for the goose is good for the gander-- if I can do this, so can anybody else: expend some influence to get into a program, possibly against regulations, fight through whatever barriers arrival in a ground-pounder training program after years as a capsuleer present.
I'm not at all sure I see a problem with that as a viable option.
As a note, I don't plan on Aria ever getting access to all three or four billion ISK of capsuleer resources she left behind (in fact, I kind of implied that she'd burned a lot of it on bribes to supplement the favors she called in and mothballed the rest), but others might very well just transfer their ISK straight across once the economies merge.
I'm interested in people's thoughts about this.
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I don't see any problem with it, myself, as long as it's one way.
There is no indication that DUSTies also require proper genetics, to my understanding. So even if someone is genetically compatible for capsule piloting it does not mean they are then incompatible with DUST implants.
What is incompatible are capsule implants and DUST implants in the same body. However, the former can be removed in order to make room for the latter, as to my knowledge there is no PF that indicates that capsuleer implants fundamentally alter the makeup of the brain in any way. This is in contrast to the DUST implants, which do fundamentally alter the brain (to my understanding). Therefore, going from Baseliner->DUSTie is possible, and going from Capsuleer->DUSTie is possible (if capsule implants are removed), because both baseliners and capsuleers share the same neural makeup. DUSTies however have their neural map irrevocably altered, and therefore it is not possible to go backwards. Once a DUSTie, you're stuck as one.
I could be wrong, but that's the way I see it, personally.
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No, it's not godmodding.
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Since both EVE and DUST characters use the both name list, you'd have to biomass your EVE toon to make it a DUST 514 one. I think that is pretty harsh, and justifies the RP shift.
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I believe I know which DUST character Aria plays and the two toons have different names.
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Thanks for the votes of confidence. :D
Since both EVE and DUST characters use the both name list, you'd have to biomass your EVE toon to make it a DUST 514 one. I think that is pretty harsh, and justifies the RP shift.
In this case, Aria had reason to take on an assumed name. The trick didn't work as well as she planned (dates and times can stand in for names when you're looking for an identity shift that left a paper trail), but the result is a lingering capsuleer profile never to be revisited and a DUST soldier living under an alias.
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On second thought, if it is important to you then it doesn't matter whatever anyone thinks.
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As long as role-playing is a group activity, what others think matters.
Well, consensual RP at least.
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As long as role-playing is a group activity, what others think matters.
Well, consensual RP at least.
This. Thank you, Makkal.
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Compatibility between DUST and capsule implants are mutually exclusive. If you are compatible for one it cuts you out of the other. This is the rationale why you can't simply be both.
I wish I could dig the source for you but I really need to run off to work.
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Compatibility between DUST and capsule implants are mutually exclusive. If you are compatible for one it cuts you out of the other. This is the rationale why you can't simply be both.
I wish I could dig the source for you but I really need to run off to work.
Edit (for a less grumpy response):
It's not too much of a surprise if there's something out there-- the devs plainly declared that they wouldn't be letting current capsuleers double as DUST soldiers. However, I don't think this runs afoul of that.
What I need to be persuaded: PF source stating plainly that the incompatibility is (1) genetic rather than hardware (otherwise you just lose the incompatible hardware, then get new stuff installed); (2) not readily circumvented by clonejacking; (3) is actually intended to prevent more than just having a DUST character named the same thing as your active capsuleer (they obviously and very understandably don't want people being both at once-- that's a little too much "I'm playing a vampire werewolf!").
That done, I'll be both astonished and highly dismayed. And have to weigh my options a good bit; retconning recent events and continuing Eve with Aria as a capsuleer is a non-starter.
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So far, the dev posts I've read said the technologies are not compatible : you can't be simultaneously a capsuleer and a dustie.
So, set a clone with dust implants, jump in it and voilà !
Advocatus diaboli : the genetic compatibility is just one step, you have to be psychologically compatible too. It is, to me, a way larger rift between the two : the mental strain the character has to endure is very different if she's a merc or an egger.
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This is the only source I could dig up on the matter.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2534763#post2534763
Nothing much about genetics, only that the two technologies can't exist side by side. I might be mistaken, but I'd presume the one-or-the-other-by-birth thing is only chinese whispered inference that's being taken as fact. Since I can't find it... Well, anywhere, really.
I want to say, though, and I'm sure I'll draw fire for this... I don't think there's anything wrong with a little bit of tiny lorebreaking for the sake of ones own enjoyment, so long as it doesn't come up much and one has the OOC wisdom to withdraw from a scenario where your interpretation of the reality of the setting is clashing with someone elses.
I mean, let's get blunt, for a moment. Eve is a very interesting and unique game with a very interesting unique world, but we're not working around a literary masterpiece, here. I might not have been about for very long, but from what I've seen the PF changes constantly, in ways that are often poorly thought out, and frequently contradicts itself. Two of the writers literally had a public disagreement on if softcloning - Something involved in tons of peoples roleplay - actually even exists on the offical forums.
Personally, since CCP Falcon addressed a complaint that all female Capsuleers have big boobs and butts and are all quite short - due to the limits of the character creator - by saying it is in lore because they all draw from the same pool of physical body templates with absolutely no variation, ever, I've been willing to occasionally tell PF to stuff it to avoid ruining what is mostly a very enjoyable game to roleplay in for myself.
I mean, come on. Not only does that mess with everyone in the universes characters, but it's skeevy, to boot.
Man, I kinda rambled a bit, there. Still, you get my point, I'm sure. Do what makes you happy and keeps you logging in.
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The basic gist of it is that the actual OMG-SAVE-ME-MY-BODY-IS-DYING tech for the two don't mesh. Please excuse my oversimplification:
The capsuleer uses a transneural burning scanner mounted in the capsule to take a snapshot of the brain in its current state and uses that info to rebuild the brain inside a blank clone (which contains only a brain stem) using super advanced brain-plastics. The TBC is linked to a fluid router, which allows it to be used anywhere.
The DUST clone uses a physical implant within the brain itself that stores the consciousness and transmits it on brain death, removing the need for any scanning process. However, this implant is extremely short range, requiring an on site or nearby CRU to pick up the signal.
If you mix the two, when the TBC takes a snapshot of the brain with that implant inside, you get a giant and useless DUST implant shaped plastic block copied into your new clone, resulting in a failed clone and permadeath. The reason you can't just use the DUST implant instead of the TBC is because it cannot be attached to a fluid router for long distance transmission. the DUST implant is too short of a range to work with the current clone network. Otherwise, you'd need CRU ships in space on grid with you during combat to survive a podkill.
omg... I just thought up a new ship type.
Anyways thats my theory and I'm sticking to it.
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Just to extend on my point.
The fact that you need convincing, especially after you have 'made it so'.
Is meaningless.
No matter what we say, no matter how much we try to influence your decision about this it is a moot point.
You have already made up your mind about it.
Because even before DUSTies became a reality we had this discussion handful of times.
During those discussions the concensus was that you could not be a DUST soldier and a capsuleer because the exception to the norm that made both of them possible were different in each case.
Each and every discussion, same concensus.
Back to my original point, if it is important to you then it doesn't matter what anyone thinks.
That is the credo of the RP community, that is how things are working at the moment.
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If you go with the genetic tinkering route, keep in mind how that sort of thing has backfired on people like the Jove. Recurring negative side-effects from clone to clone can be awesome for character-building.
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Hmm I can't find the source I had in mind... It could be I mistook it for the one previous linked and mixed it up with something said at Fanfest. If that's the case, my bad.
Though as Lallara says, you seem to have already made up your mind about it so what I or anyone else says is irrelevant.
Personally I do think you are going against PF and bending it overtly to suit your desires. *shrugs*
There's one thing to do to get an actual clarity - Ask CCP Falcon, he seems to be very easy to get a hold of ingame. That should solve this debate.
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Vincent, here's the thing: I don't know what I'd do if my move turned out to be actually against PF.
I hate coming off as arrogant, partly because I'm in permanent danger of being arrogant. I also take a lot of pride in working within the confines of worldbuilding, so both my desire not to callously walk over others and my pride demand care for the setting. That being the case, much as I've "already decided," the discovery that having Aria semi-accidentally switch careers is contra-canon would cause me to revisit that decision.
Lallara is wrong about my mindset. If it didn't matter, I wouldn't ask. I'm not just looking for validation here; I'm confronting the issue, and any feelings that I have to one side or the other have to live side by side with what I hope qualifies as intellectual honesty.
Now, the suggestion re: CCP Falcon-- that's a good idea. If a chat window is likely to be needed, that's an issue; it's hard for DUST players to see logging ins and outs right now. If an Evemail will work, I'll use that. Otherwise, I'd appreciate it if someone would volunteer to put the question to him.
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Honestly, if two devs can outwardly disagree on the PF in a public manner, I personally wouldn't take anything that's not hard and on-paper as offical background material.
Regardless, though... I asked CCP Eterne a question over Evemail, and he got back to me. I'd assume the same would work for Falcon.
I hope you don't end up feeling a need to dump Aria. :(
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I am going to say it is godmoding... but we can all be quilty of that when trying to add to the Eve setting with out own fiction.
I am going to disagree with lallara; when trying to "godmod" the world it is very important how it is received by the rest of the RP community. "A special kind of frog lives on Oris in the Amarr system" and "The Jovians worship me like a goddess" will only ever be true if the statements recieve general acceptance in the community. I believe this holds true for any big or small piece for fiction or fact you want to introduce into Eve.
In this case, I would likely drop Falcon or Eterne a line.
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If it's IC one way, go for it. Could permanently move into a separate DUST clone and not be able to clone back to a capsuleer. That being said, OOCly, there's enough lore to justify doing it WITHOUT having to biomass Aria. You've had the character for a while, so I feel it's a waste to simply get rid of her. Just keep her out of Summit and IC channels, simple. Use her to keep playing now and then and touch base with people in OOC channels.
Maybe you have your own rather personal reasons for wanting to do it. If that is the case, then I have no room to judge. However, I feel that IC issues should not drive you to biomass an old and useful character you can still play with OOCly. Just my 2 isk.
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I am going to say it is godmoding... but we can all be quilty of that when trying to add to the Eve setting with out own fiction.
I am going to disagree with lallara; when trying to "godmod" the world it is very important how it is received by the rest of the RP community. "A special kind of frog lives on Oris in the Amarr system" and "The Jovians worship me like a goddess" will only ever be true if the statements recieve general acceptance in the community. I believe this holds true for any big or small piece for fiction or fact you want to introduce into Eve.
In this case, I would likely drop Falcon or Eterne a line.
Dropped a line to both (I think. DUST's Evemail is a little rudimentary).
What you're describing, Myyona, I prefer to call "worldbuilding," "extrapolating from available data" (which is how I usually approach it), or "quasi-canon." I think of "godmoding" as going in and messing with what's there, either by ignoring what's present or by introducing something out of place (such as magic, intelligent space aliens, etc.).
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I think the limitations to becoming a DUST soldier really come down to genetics and their implant.
Genetics is easy. We know pilot implant compatibility is a genetic crapshoot. So is (supposedly) DUST compatibility. Doesn't mean the same individual can't be compatible with both. It may be far less likely, or it may require cutting a deal with someone who can do some serious black medical genetic therapy, but I've never seen anything stating for a fact that the two compatibilities are mutually exclusive. After all, we ICly don't fully understand what makes someone compatible with pilots interfaces.
The DUST implant is a little tougher. It's a brain implant, so that suggests that it's just surgically implanted. However, we don't know for sure (or at least I haven't run across anything stating one way or another) that DUST clones use the same gel matrix brains as capsuleer clones. If our gel matrix brains are specific to capsuleers, then there may be an issue. If all clones use gel matrixes - and I can think of no reason why they wouldn't - then this isn't an issue, either.
Either way, considering how little definitive PF exists on the subject of soft cloning and how reluctant CCP is to make a definitive statement about it (based partially it seems, and this is encouraging, on it's prevalence in our own stories), I'd say you're probably safe to proceed. Especially if, as you've mentioned, it is a one-way door. Capsuleers able to jump clone into DUST soldiers and back does seem to be too much of a stretch.
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Right, "worldbuilding". *makes note*
Btw. I read somewhere that the 1st gen clone soldiers getting killed was actually a IC way to describe a DUST character wipe. It also stated that a few 1st gen clones were still around. Sadly, I forgot where I read it. :|
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Godmoding? Eh. No worse than mine, and certainly better written.
My DUST character is a DUSTified version of a baseliner who'd been running around kitted up with a Duvolle killswitch (riffed from Cromeaux/Duvolle's "Final Soldier" project) in her skull. If she got killed or needed to self-terminate, a signal would go back to base to wake up one of her clones. Since she didn't have a neural burner in her skull, her memories at the time of death didn't get transferred. She and others like her have had to rely on being able to plug in a cable every now and then so they could do an upload of experiences and memories accumulated since their last incremental backup.
Current circumstances have encouraged her to leave her employer and go lose herself among regular DUSTies (unexpected bonus: regaining some continuity in her mental life!). It's kind of awesome how Intara Direct Action will take just about any wet cat who crawls in the door.
Now, to get around to playing her. (Not that I'm convinced that I'll actually RP with her, but hey, the background's in place, just in case.)
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Personally, since CCP Falcon addressed a complaint that all female Capsuleers have big boobs and butts and are all quite short - due to the limits of the character creator creator - by saying it is in lore because they all draw from the same pool of physical body templates with absolutely no variation, ever, I've been willing to occasionally tell PF to stuff it to avoid ruining what is mostly a very enjoyable game to roleplay in for myself.
what ?
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I am going to say it is godmoding... but we can all be quilty of that when trying to add to the Eve setting with out own fiction.
Can someone illuminate what they mean by godmodding?
In my experience, it's forcing another person's character to perform an action or react in a specific way.
/me lashes out with her fist, hitting Kat square in the gut and sending her stumbling back from the force of the blow.
/me walks into the room. All eyes turn to her as she makes her way down the stairs.
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I am going to say it is godmoding... but we can all be quilty of that when trying to add to the Eve setting with out own fiction.
Can someone illuminate what they mean by godmodding?
In my experience, it's forcing another person's character to perform an action or react in a specific way.
/me lashes out with her fist, hitting Kat square in the gut and sending her stumbling back from the force of the blow.
/me walks into the room. All eyes turn to her as she makes her way down the stairs.
It can also be blatantly ignoring accepted RP setting norms.
For example, say you pod-killed me earlier, but I'll tell you that my pod didn't REALLY explode because I have super Jove tech installed and I insta-warped out of your scram and that corpse in your locker is really just a clever decoy. DOHOHO! HOW CUNNING I AM.
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Then my character laughs and says that your character is an idiot. You can make all sorts of outrageous claims IC; that doesn't make it godmodding.
Makkal believes she hears whale songs in space. And if you ask her, she'll tell you about the whales that she thinks lives there. In space. That's not godmodding SPACE WHALES into the setting. It's one character telling another what they believe.
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Personally, since CCP Falcon addressed a complaint that all female Capsuleers have big boobs and butts and are all quite short - due to the limits of the character creator creator - by saying it is in lore because they all draw from the same pool of physical body templates with absolutely no variation, ever, I've been willing to occasionally tell PF to stuff it to avoid ruining what is mostly a very enjoyable game to roleplay in for myself.
wat
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I'm sure it sounded realistic or clever to him at the time.
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Or he wasn't serious and was just being a smartass, as Falcon is well-known for being at times. :P
The limits are less the character creator itself and more the art pipeline according to the official response on the forums when it first came up a long time ago. Basically, they'd need to do lots of additional animation work to handle a range of avatar heights for some reason, so they didn't, and made everyone the same height to save time.
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Personally, since CCP Falcon addressed a complaint that all female Capsuleers have big boobs and butts and are all quite short - due to the limits of the character creator creator - by saying it is in lore because they all draw from the same pool of physical body templates with absolutely no variation, ever, I've been willing to occasionally tell PF to stuff it to avoid ruining what is mostly a very enjoyable game to roleplay in for myself.
This is also true for males. Here, let me show you— *pulls down trousers*
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Personally, since CCP Falcon addressed a complaint that all female Capsuleers have big boobs and butts and are all quite short - due to the limits of the character creator creator - by saying it is in lore because they all draw from the same pool of physical body templates with absolutely no variation, ever, I've been willing to occasionally tell PF to stuff it to avoid ruining what is mostly a very enjoyable game to roleplay in for myself.
This is also true for males. Here, let me show you— *pulls down trousers*
Does that mean Rule 6 no longer stands?
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Personally, since CCP Falcon addressed a complaint that all female Capsuleers have big boobs and butts and are all quite short - due to the limits of the character creator creator - by saying it is in lore because they all draw from the same pool of physical body templates with absolutely no variation, ever, I've been willing to occasionally tell PF to stuff it to avoid ruining what is mostly a very enjoyable game to roleplay in for myself.
This is also true for males. Here, let me show you— *pulls down trousers*
Does that mean Rule 6 no longer stands?
*prods genital-less crotch*
Probably not. We all look like the angels from Dogma down here.
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Or he wasn't serious and was just being a smartass, as Falcon is well-known for being at times. :P
The limits are less the character creator itself and more the art pipeline according to the official response on the forums when it first came up a long time ago. Basically, they'd need to do lots of additional animation work to handle a range of avatar heights for some reason, so they didn't, and made everyone the same height to save time.
I dunno - At the time, he seemed pretty adamantly serious about it, even when people asked "What, really?" I remember being weirded out that he didn't break off and say "Just kidding", or do anything to suggest that.
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All right. The question is in, and my household router is on the blink. I'll be giving neo-Aria a rest until I can stay logged in a little more reliably, and we'll see whether the verdict is in by then.
I will freely admit to pushing a margin on this one. The motive is very simple.
* Aria is a creature of this world; Tarquin is not (though he might become one with time).
* Aria is thoughtful in ways that Tarquin is not on his best day. Although, again, perhaps he could be.
* Aria as capsuleer has reached a dead end; there's nothing further I can do with her there. However, I am very fond of the character and it would be neat to get to play her in another role. Additionally, there is no longer enough time in my life for Eve. DUST is a bit easier to be involved with on a casual level.
If CCP Falcon and Eterne nix my character conversion, I'll probably treat the resources I've put into Aria as a donation to CCP and switch my RP fully back to Tarquin. Aria may continue from the periphery as an occasional essayist. It'll be a pity, but there it is: I knew I was pushing margins when I made the move in the first place. I have no cause for complaint if my decision to check my canonical validity returns a negative result.
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* Aria is a creature of this world; Tarquin is not (though he might become one with time).
Okay. Gonna go weep gently in the corner now.
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I think its minor Godmodding. Perhaps shrug inducing but you've put your time in and have worked for years so I think leeway is due!
That you wish it to be one way, and this implies a serious commitment with consequences for you, makes it just fine in my book.
If we see Aria back as a capsuleer though it will induce much eye roll. :)
That being said have fun, enjoy yourself and your new role :)
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Here's hoping for best. I'll say again - At the end of the day, for whatever it's worth, it seems better to skirt the (often fickle) fluff a tiny bit on occasion, then to lose a lot personal enjoyment. I mean, consciousness and identity in Eve are generally portrayed as pretty fluid, with uploads, downloads, all sorts of colourful alterations... I'm sure one could contrive a way to circumvent whatever barriers are in place, and maybe even make a bit of interesting roleplay that might come as a result of the cost for doing so.
I'll be genuinely super bummed if you do end up deleting her. She's one of my favourite characters to interact with, for reasons that are probably obvious.
...I'm also not sure what I'll do with some of my roleplay if you decide to retcon, since her being about has kind of changed Gwen's relationship with two or three other characters somewhat. But if her returning never happened, and indeed, couldn't have happened, well...
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Gwen:
I, too, will be bummed. Possibly extremely bummed, and I'm sorry if it ends up putting you to in-game difficulties. Perhaps we can come up with an approach that doesn't mean having to retcon the whole shebang. (Aria's always been a touch reckless for someone so paranoid, and may have risked contacting old associates to basically say, "Hey, there. Not dead yet.")
A tricky-to-master aspect of strategy is to arrange things so that no matter what happens, you win. In this case, if Aria has to get radically modified/retconned, I'll have a new-ish character whose spiritual and philosophical development I can see to (I've recently realized that's what I've been missing in Tarquin's roleplay, which is why I ported Aria over to begin with). If Aria gets to continue, I get to proceed with the Children of Naught writings as applied to DUSTers.
Either way is good, though Aria is the sentimental favorite.
If I can get to the point where I can do this with my legal career, I'll be pretty well set. :P
Makkal:
* Aria is a creature of this world; Tarquin is not (though he might become one with time).
Okay. Gonna go weep gently in the corner now.
Is this a comment on Aria, Tarquin, my commentary on "this world," or ... some combination?
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If we see Aria back as a capsuleer though it will induce much eye roll. :)
Yeah-- shuffling one way seems forgivable if the devs don't explicitly disallow it. Shuffling both ways?
Er.
If they ever introduce a "Sims" variant for New Eden, however (and stranger things have happened), they MUST introduce a mode allowing you to either retire your Eve character or just allow that same character to have a home life. We sort of have that now, but your Eve character can't currently die in the smoldering ruins of what was supposed to be a nice dinner.
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Gwen:
I, too, will be bummed. Possibly extremely bummed, and I'm sorry if it ends up putting you to in-game difficulties. Perhaps we can come up with an approach that doesn't mean having to retcon the whole shebang. (Aria's always been a touch reckless for someone so paranoid, and may have risked contacting old associates to basically say, "Hey, there. Not dead yet.")
A tricky-to-master aspect of strategy is to arrange things so that no matter what happens, you win. In this case, if Aria has to get radically modified/retconned, I'll have a new-ish character whose spiritual and philosophical development I can see to (I've recently realized that's what I've been missing in Tarquin's roleplay, which is why I ported Aria over to begin with). If Aria gets to continue, I get to proceed with the Children of Naught writings as applied to DUSTers.
Either way is good, though Aria is the sentimental favorite.
If I can get to the point where I can do this with my legal career, I'll be pretty well set. :P
:) That's very kind of you to offer, and would certainly help. Hopefully it won't need to come to that, though.
It'll be a bit of a pity if you change Tarquin around to fill the void - I've actually quite enjoyed his relative bluntness and somewhat black and white thinking in their own way. It's a pretty far cry from Aria, to the point that I didn't realize you were playing him until about about the third time I saw him on the Summit. Though I'd certainly miss the achurish abstract philosophical discussions greatly, too.
I should mention that, in case you're not aware, there are several other Dust players I've encountered who are pushing the former Capsuleer angle, as well, who seemed more or less accepted. ...So the whole affair seems unlikely to go away, regardless of what CCPs ultimate decision is.
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Hah. Here's to hoping your legal career can transition more easily.
I'm not going to say this is much ado about nothing, but the specific concern does seem a little extreme. I realize you are attached to Aria (hell, I'm attached to Aria), but there's already been some good replies in the "but it's a game" category. Here's why that's relevant...
I don't at all believe that either developer you question will reply with an answer in the negative, because that's not what this game or even the IP as a product-concept is about. The IP has been very much built with the players since its creation, as the developer had, from 2000 through about 2006, less time to focus on any world-building that wasn't front-facing for their client. Some people complain that there had been little attention on story and world-building post-ISD shakeup, but there was next to nothing in 2000-2003. (http://web.archive.org/web/20000815213544/http://www.eve-online.com/) Part of that was the game not existing yet, but the old farts like myself remember a very vibrant community that wanted to fill in every gaping hole they possibly could. And they received the Company's blessing. That seems to be part of ISD's job right now, according to the official descriptions, with the difference being that they are not writing so much for breadth any longer, but for depth.
The world that exists now is as much the world of the players' choices as it is CCP's world. That's not marketing rhetoric. If you go back and read the Hamish saga, or any of the similar material of the time: those and similar stories shaped what EVE is as a science fiction setting today. CCP has always said, since the time of Beta -- or at least from the moment Hilmar realized jetcan mining was a thing -- that they intended to simply play the role of GM.
So does it make sense that you ask? Yes, sure. It's like a P&P game: you should go ahead and ask the GM when in doubt. But, I've frankly read about crazier events in the official EVE novels than what you yourself have attempted.
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Is this a comment on Aria, Tarquin, my commentary on "this world," or ... some combination?
I didn't know Tarquin was your alt.
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Kyoko:
I agree, for the most part, and will be kind of surprised if it goes the other way. But, yeah-- good thing to ask the GM about.
Makkal:
Aw, he's not that bad. ^_^ Tarquin's just an IC literal bittervet with some lingering baseliner attitudes. The main reason he isn't exactly a "creature of this world" is because he's not yet well-adjusted to being kinda-sorta immortal. He's a grizzled old war dog who's seen way more than his share of death and is having difficulty wrapping his brain around the fact that his work now routinely involves both allies and enemies who employ tactics that are so damned reckless with their own lives.
Sudden elevation to demigodhood takes some getting used to.
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I'll be giving neo-Aria a rest until I can stay logged in a little more reliably[..]
:lol: This seems to happen sometimes when Ché feels like talking to her.Perhaps we can come up with an approach that doesn't mean having to retcon the whole shebang.
If it comes to this...perhaps neo-aria isn't Aria after all. :twisted: Don't know if this is possible, but I thought I'd throw it out here. Feel free to brainstorm about possible solutions with me, I can be creative.
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If it comes to this...perhaps neo-aria isn't Aria after all. :twisted: Don't know if this is possible, but I thought I'd throw it out here. Feel free to brainstorm about possible solutions with me, I can be creative.
Possibly; I'd considered the option. There's a variety of possibilities.
In any case, the query's in, and I don't have an answer yet. I'll give it a week from time of sending and see. If I have no answer back by then, I'll presume validation until proven otherwise.
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Make Aria a very nasty, baaad criminal in the eyes of CONCORD by somehow cloning her when the old body is actually not dead. Of course the new Aria doesn't want to die.
And voila.
Not sure if it solves the main issue though.
Mhh.
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Actually, screw it. I've got a better idea.
le*ga*cy cha*rac*ter, n.: a fictional character based on or inspired by a previous, usually departed, character, often an apprentice or direct descendant of the original.
Easy to pull off, in this case.
/emote reaches for a copy of "Cyrano de Bergerac."
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The Dread Pirate Jenneth?
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Actually, screw it. I've got a better idea.
le*ga*cy cha*rac*ter, n.: a fictional character based on or inspired by a previous, usually departed, character, often an apprentice or direct descendant of the original.
Easy to pull off, in this case.
/emote reaches for a copy of "Cyrano de Bergerac."
I would hope you only apply this *if* they say that what you've done isn't legit.
Morwen (and I) missed chatting with Aria quite a bit. :P
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The Dread Pirate Jenneth?
I would hope you only apply this *if* they say that what you've done isn't legit.
Morwen (and I) missed chatting with Aria quite a bit. :P
Oh, Aria's not likely to go "poof" entirely, but conversations with Aria are likely to involve talking less to the pirate and more to the parrot. I've wanted for a while to try somebody a little less self-indulgent-- and if I get a positive reaction back, I can take that as a go-ahead for future shenanigans.
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Aww :( I'll miss having another spiritual Achura sort about.
Do what you think best, though.
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Actually, I'm still on the fence a little on this subject. The temptation might just be my impatience with waiting-- and having my RP on hold in the meanwhile.
... And actually, that's the last thing you'd need to worry about losing, Gwen, for reasons that should become apparent if I decide to go the legacy character route.
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I'll just gently remind you that Aria promised to have a glass of wine with Nata.
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I'll just gently remind you that Aria promised to have a glass of wine with Nata.
Consider me reminded.
It may have to be a virtual glass of cyber-wine. We'll see how the check plays out.
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Actually, I'm still on the fence a little on this subject. The temptation might just be my impatience with waiting-- and having my RP on hold in the meanwhile.
... And actually, that's the last thing you'd need to worry about losing, Gwen, for reasons that should become apparent if I decide to go the legacy character route.
Well, don't rush into anything. I know the feeing of having a character which you have a great passion for that you can't play, and who's fate seems uncertain (though usually due to in game reasons rather then meta ones) and the desire to just sweep that unpleasant limbo-esque anxiety aside and make a fresh start at once.
But at the end of the day, it's better to think about if it's just a half measure you're trying to convince yourself will solve things that you might feel trapped by later and have to retcon, or if you really do think a do-over might be genuinely more fun.
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Sage advice, Gwen-- and it's true, the hardest part of this has been holding off on proceeding with a character who's frankly quite important to me. Impatience can really cause problems.
Happily, I've hit on a solution that should turn out fine regardless of outcome. I hope you'll excuse me if I don't spill the details.
(CCP Falcon and Eterne, if you're listening, I still very badly want that answer. Schrodinger's cat is not a happy animal.)
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The only real problem with this idea would be the supposed 'waste' of an asset as considered by the Empire(s) involved in the process. Remember that the "genetic lottery" that allows Capsuleers to be Capsuleers don't ACTUALLY allow them to fly a capsule - it just let them DISCONNECT AND GET OUT without turning into a vegetable locked up inside their own numb bodies.
There would be no problem at all for any Empire cruel enough to pull any random Joe and Joeline off the streets, kit them out with the proper implants and theoretical training then put them in a pod and let them STAY there forever. Sure, they would be little more than organic batteries running the pods and would die for good when someone pods them, (puts them out of their misery) but that's when you grab a few more random dudes and enslave them to a pod for the rest of their time as well.
Far as the Capuleer to Duster transision goes, AFAIK there is nothing special about the Dusties that makes it a niche thing, like the Capsuleers. Anyone can be trained and modded to become a Dustie - even Capsuleers, I'd think - you just can't reverse the process and losing someone that has the rather hard-to-come-by ability to enter and leave a pod at will without mind-lock would be considered a HUGE waste, because as stated, anyone can be a dustie, but not everyone can be a "true" Capsuleer.
If I'm wrong about this then the *edit* whorewhole *edit* thing goes out the window ofc, but if I'm right nothing says "Aria can't convert to a dustie" but lots say "Aria converting to a dustie would be a huge waste of skills and abilities" - provided ofc that Aria herself give a shit, and I'm assuming here she don't :)
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That matches my understanding pretty closely, Bloodbird, one caveat being whether an erratic demented capsuleer long past the point of feeling much genuine loyalty to any given group is worth trying to stop from taking herself out of upper-division play (so to speak). But yeah, that's likely to be one of the obstacles in most cases.
Not an insurmountable one, necessarily, however. Aria (as an example) had extremely strong ties to certain State entities, including both the navy and the CPF. This, to my mind, along with a goodly pile of loyalty points, translates into a fair few favors owed.
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Not sure if you ever got your result, but I based on a conversation I had earlier today it sounds as though both Falcon and Eterne have gone completely silent on the question-anwsering front for over a month, for some reason. So you might be out of luck.
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No result, but community response (and lack of contravening canon) is satisfactory.
I'll be proceeding on the assumption that the yarn I spun is character background rather than uncanonical "side story" for the time being.