Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Seriphyn on 25 Apr 2013, 06:50
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https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2928246&#post2928246
Somebody bite, otherwise I'll be red with embarrassment if nobody does. There is no super sekrit plan or omgrimdark ulterior motive. Elusenia is based off of those Mary Sue countries IRL, like Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden etc.
HOWEVER, even if there is no super sekrit plan yet, who knows what might develop from it?
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Elusenia is based off of those Mary Sue countries IRL, like Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden etc.
I think you need to explain yourself unless you want people to get a very offensive reaction to your statement.
EDIT: Also you can start feeling embarrassed if no-one take up your offer in a week's time, let people get time to actually see your post first and consider the option for themselves.
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He was giving those countries a complement. Basically that they are so great that they must be viewed as Mary Sue since it's outside of reality for places with those high values, cultures, and high standard of living to exist in our reality.
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What's the TL;DR on that post so I know what you're talking about?
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What's the TL;DR on that post so I know what you're talking about?
Pony Planet is a tax haven, so corporations should set up shop here.
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Tell us more about how Switzerland is an idyllic land of near-utopia. You have my rapt attention.
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Tell us more about how Switzerland is an idyllic land of near-utopia. You have my rapt attention.
Cheese with holes, and everyone goes skiing all the time.
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He was giving those countries a complement. Basically that they are so great that they must be viewed as Mary Sue since it's outside of reality for places with those high values, cultures, and high standard of living to exist in our reality.
Yes.
What's the TL;DR on that post so I know what you're talking about?
Pony Planet is a tax haven, so corporations should set up shop here.
Yes.
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He was giving those countries a complement. Basically that they are so great that they must be viewed as Mary Sue since it's outside of reality for places with those high values, cultures, and high standard of living to exist in our reality.
Yes.
What's the TL;DR on that post so I know what you're talking about?
Pony Planet is a tax haven, so corporations should set up shop here.
Yes.
What a touristy way to look at Switzerland.
Here's an experiment: Step 1: Be African/Eastern European/Indian. Step 2: Be lower middle class or poor. Step 3: Go to Switzerland. Step 4: Learn to hate the Swiss very quickly.
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Scandinavian countries are indeed tax havens. Any kind of tax is welcome in Scandinavia. :D
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Scandinavian countries are indeed tax havens. Any kind of tax is welcome in Scandinavia. :D
lol
But, in all seriousness, I think Seriphyn is more referring to the ease of doing business as compared to elsewhere.
Nordic Model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model)
Now, given the above as reference, perhaps Scandinavia is not the actual model desired for Elusenian. Perhaps pre-PRC Hong Kong is a more appropriate model.
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My annoyance is the use of the term "mary sue" - it has a negative meaning to me as something being portrayed as "perfect" to the point where this supposed perfection in viewed as (and is) a flaw all in itself. As it was written I read it as "these countries think themselves far better than they actually are and appear in a negative way for it".
I did not and still don't like the implications of that.
Regardless, post noted. A bit sad I don't have anyone able to dump some assets on your nice little tax-haven Seri. ;)
I would have liked to get involved, but I mechanically can't do it. :(
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I must really account for the fact that "subtle satire" or facetiousness is not a cultural universal amongst English speakers, or maybe I shouldn't post things like that and expect everyone to get it :P I did not mean offense by referring to those countries as Mary Sue; but as Silas pointed out, yes, it was a compliment. And then as Creep alluded too, despite me referring to those nations as "Mary Sue", they still have problems. I'm sure Elusenia will have problems once things get going.
The Nordic model is a good reference point. Overall, it takes influence from Italian merchant republics, Dubai, and Scandinavian countries.
Incidentally, I've got one offer from a Caldari group. And yes, mechanically one cannot get involved. It is all fluff. I don't know whether this is a good or bad thing; three years ago I did mechanistically-tied RP.
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Someone PM me a crash course in wtf this planet stuff is all about. Shitphone's web browser is shit. Thx!
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And then as Creep alluded too, despite me referring to those nations as "Mary Sue", they still have problems. I'm sure Elusenia will have problems once things get going.
I imagine so, particularly since you're modelling a brand-new society on three nations which have taken many, many centuries of evolving cultural and economic norms to get where they are today. The Scandinavian 'liberal paradises' and the Helvetic Confederation both have very deep cultural roots which kept them more socially liberal than their neighbors throughout the centuries. Norway/Sweden, during the conversion to Christianity, got very conservative socially, but the older traditions (which, for example, were a lot more gender-equal than the Christian doctrine was comfortable with) won out in the end. Switzerland was the liberal center of Europe many centuries before Paris got republican, largely because the Swiss had a socio-political disconnect from the more 'feudaly'-traditional HRE (as well as containing the cultural remnants of the mountain-tribes which had never really been totally Romanized). These things might not be obvious in the 12th or the 15th century, but as the European social norms progressed, the Nords and the Swiss led the charge because of these factors.
Their societies had a much stronger tradition of idealizing the concept of an egalitarian, anti-classist society. Political and social realities kept these ideals from being considered achievable or even a good idea. Over time, they wore down the hierarchical systems.
What you're proposing to do is set up a city with people from all over the Federation(the whole cluster, even?), tell everyone they're egalitarian and socially liberated, and nobody is better than anyone else. I give your population a year to work out amongst themselves who the elites and the least are.
...I've just realized that everytime I post, there's a history lesson included. Sorry about that, it's force of habit.
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What you're proposing to do is set up a city with people from all over the Federation(the whole cluster, even?), tell everyone they're egalitarian and socially liberated, and nobody is better than anyone else. I give your population a year to work out amongst themselves who the elites and the least are.
Now that would be a good story. Proper grimdark. Paradise becomes hell.
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I like the lax legislational environment and zero tax. I think we can do something here...
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If I was still in game, I'd jump on this so hard.
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That sounded wrong, but I'll go with it.
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Now it gave me an idea. Fits so well with a RP of mine that I am surprised I haven't thought of it sooner.
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Ché has a lot on his mind, but he is following Elusia rather closely. He is still planning to have a drink with Seri and chat about it.
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Ok random idea I had while reading this. Just throwing it out there.
You should sell your world building service here. I picture it like I tell you what I want, you create a sub-channel with description and the like, I pay you to buy the land. If I want to modify it I send you descriptions, you send me a bill and then modify the chan. Maybe in time you put together a map of the city with the offices you have sold or something.
As an example I am thinking your little world sounds like a nice place for a corporate retreat, relaxation for my baseliner employees and a nice quiet safe place to invite other capsuleers for high level meetings.
Why pay you for what I could just make myself? More interaction, I have enough stuff of my own to create and maybe it would give you incentive to flesh it all out more.
Again just an idea man.
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Souchek, that sounds like a grand idea. I'd love to write up little worlds for ISK or some other...I can't do maps though! If you are interested, just convo me up.
Also, regarding interaction with Elusenia. If people want to interact with it, for charity or for ill, then there is nothing stopping you from convoing me or mailing me in-game. Being ganged up on in a public channel and being told "This is EVE, give us interaction or you're not doing it right" will not make me, or anyone, receptive to interacting with you. That is the law of human engagement, after all. I have had one person talk to me on Steam about future interaction with Elusenia, and I was naturally receptive.
The impression I got from the conversation in OOC that took place approx. 10 minutes ago at time of posting appeared that people are less interested in Elusenia itself, and more the opportunity to kick over my/Seriphyn's sandcastle, either because of IC or OOC motivations (there was a strong suggestion that the latter was the case). None of the people that complained about the lack of the ability to interact with Elusenia do not appear to actually interact with myself over the worldbuilding.
So, is this about creating meaningful RP interaction, or more being told that this is a case of "doin it rong"?
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Given what your doing, and my own bitter and biased viewpoint, I'd honestly say it's likely from an OOC desire to ruin your stuff for the hell of it. People are assholes and we can never be allowed nice things.
I think I should state that I would love to be proven wrong in this case.
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Ok random idea I had while reading this. Just throwing it out there.
You should sell your world building service here. I picture it like I tell you what I want, you create a sub-channel with description and the like, I pay you to buy the land. If I want to modify it I send you descriptions, you send me a bill and then modify the chan. Maybe in time you put together a map of the city with the offices you have sold or something.
As an example I am thinking your little world sounds like a nice place for a corporate retreat, relaxation for my baseliner employees and a nice quiet safe place to invite other capsuleers for high level meetings.
Why pay you for what I could just make myself? More interaction, I have enough stuff of my own to create and maybe it would give you incentive to flesh it all out more.
Again just an idea man.
I'd totally be onboard for this.
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I am the person who Seriphyn is referring to. I was the one who suggested that it would be a good idea to introduce some conflict over Euthanasia. I was the one who clearly stated (not suggested) that I dislike the player himself OOCly and that was likely the reason my approach to the topic was highly aggressive, after being poked by the moderators politely to calm myself.
That being said, my points still stand valid, despite the obvious bias. It would be more interesting to introduce some conflict in space or on the ground over it. I also didn't say you were doing anything wrong, nor did I mean that. I said the RP would be more interesting if there was ingame PvP conflict, instead of it existing solely as a touchstone for IGS debate. That is my opinion. It doesn't mean you're doing it wrong, so don't put words in my mouth that I never said.
I did however mock your response that you only want conflict over the colony if you approve of it.
EDIT: I do realize that my aggressive attack on you in-game was out of line. I'm not going to bother trying to excuse it, but I do owe you an apology for it. My problems with you could have been handled better and in private.
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I did however mock your response that you only want conflict over the colony if you approve of it.
Well of course he does, that's his RP project, not yours. He is the sole GM in that case. If he had not at least a bit of control over what kind of hostile events that can occur over the project, he would soon be crawling under a ton of "/me orbital strikes Elusenia, wrecking for 298329874373 damage, that is all".
What would be assholish, though, would be to have the bad taste to just accept events that always put his characters and his project in a good light, which I assume he does not do. Knowing Seri I highly doubt that he care that much for his IC reputation.
EDIT : also, I have already been injecting controversial things in the project myself, actually taking up his IC offer on the IGS, and as much as I am not bringing direct conflict in it, maybe it could in the future. It's not because people do not talk about it that it does not actually happen.
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I was the one who suggested that it would be a good idea to introduce some conflict over Euthanasia.
I see what you did there...
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I was the one who suggested that it would be a good idea to introduce some conflict over Euthanasia.
I see what you did there...
To be fair, the first time I read the name of his city, I thought this was the name.
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Hey Seri. sorry dude I have not forgotten about this just mad busy with the whole CEO thing. I will try to get in touch IC sometime this weekend or next.