Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: Alexander Rykis on 09 Aug 2010, 15:04
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Hey guys
So, a post by someone else gave me the idea to pop this up here.
Missioning sucks. Mining sucks. Plexing sucks. FW missions suck. PI is a pain in the ass for no isk. Wh's suck. Trading sucks.
So, Alex, what do you do for isk. Well I'll tell you what I do, good sir. I let other people do these things and then I talk them into giving it all to me.
Scamming is the best isk / hour income source in the game, hands down. The ONLY thing that might be able to touch it is running plex's in c4's or c5's but that takes more people and a decent amount of initial investment. Scamming, however, usually takes no initial investment and you can do it by yourself. Never underestimate the capacity for idiocy in this game. Ever.
Example: I recently scammed a guy out of 600m and the whole process took all of about an hour, in total. The guy had been spamming in recruitment chat for 2 hours saying he was looking to rent 0.0 space. Why you would ask there is beyond me, so this told me he was a perfect mark and a complete retard. I end up getting a buddy from TEST alliance to sit in the room and told him I was someone with connections. He ended up renting a system in Scalding Pass that wasn't owned by anyone and paid me 500m for rent along with a 100m thank you for setting it all up.
The key to scamming is charisma. knowledge of game mechanics and knowledge of politics. Knowing who is what with who and who lives near who and all this will help immensely. Sounding like you know what the fuck you're talking about and showing it goes a really long way.
Ok so, I was just wondering if there might be any interest in an actual guide? Like past chat logs and screenshots as examples along with advice and ideas. I'm willing to teach anyone who wants to learn. Actually the more people involved on one scam, the more comfortable the mark will feel.
Feedback?
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By the way, I wouldn't charge for this. Just saying... people think that because you'll rob one person means you'll rob everyone. Some people have lines they won't cross. Period.
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Sadly I'm just not quick-witted enough to pull off anything. Plus the whole feeling guilty thing.
I did know a few guys who would scam alliances that pissed them off though. It was wild to watch them work their magics. D:
Guide away, brah.
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Anyone can scam bro.
Like I said, if you're interested, post here or hit me up in-game. I'll teach you the ways
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Izzy's not a bro. ;)
Though I wouldn't mind a few tips, as scamming is something I've pondered in the past. I'm unscrupulous enough to do it, too, I just haven't been assed to get around to it yet. :D
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Well she called me brah so...
Sorry, love.
Anyway, Lillith hit me up in-game when you have about... 30 min - an hour of free time. We'll start going over things
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I admire scammers, in a way, but I personally find being completely trustworthy with people's assets far more gratifying.
That said, scam away! It makes people like me much more valuable, heh heh heh. :twisted:
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Well...
I'm not a thief, I'm a con-artist. Major major difference.
Scamming involves convincing people to give you their shit. This isn't stealing in any way. So honestly, the only way for a scam to work is for them to believe you are trustworthy.
And I am trustworthy by the way, as long as we're friends or you're in the RP community. If the isk/hour is shit, we're friends, or scamming you would hurt more than help I won't do it. Or if you're a noob... or if you don't have the means to make the isk back easily.
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I think a guide would be interesting.
But as you already said Alex, alot of it does come down to personal charisma and being able to make a hard sell. (Or usually, an easy one.)
Scamming however is just something I can't do for the sole reason in that I do want to keep some semblance of faith in humanity. (As in, having to see people being just that damn stupid and trusting causes dissonance with my worldview that humanity is in general intelligent and discerning.)
Then again, I did once buy a 200mil Kestrel.
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with my worldview that ...humanity is in general intelligent and discerning.
:| :eek: :o :) :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Yes, I know Vik. I find myself disappointed on a daily basis.
But I'm forever the optimist. :bash:
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So... how does this scam work?
*shifty eyes*
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I don't mean to derail this thread, but seeing your avatar and then posting about scamming some guy in EVE is hilarious.
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A guide to scamming would be... an interesting read. It'd be difficult to write a guide to something that, in itself, is a completely improvisational art. Both pulling off an elaborate heist and jacking a carrier with 14bil in BPOs, and convincing a random noob to fork over a million ISK for some "awesome module" you have, are scams.
Likewise, it'd be difficult to write a guide on being charismatic. The fact that you pulled off this 600 shows you have that inherent spark that leads to a natural con-man. Or politician. Or CEO, really.
That being said, if you could write such a guide, even to start potential scammers off, it might be a worthwhile investment. Much as I loath to say it, EVE isn't like other MMOs; if it can net you ISK, its a valuable endeavor, and that includes scams. It keeps other players on their toes, and in a way contributes to the "wild frontier" feeling of the game.
Besides, con artists spark their own economies. Plenty of people are willing to pay brash young mercs to hunt down offenders or hire security. And those security personnel can be paid off by the con artists in an endless cycle that leads to such events as TenTron's re-re-rescamming of a single corp.
Its beautiful, in its own way.
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I do have to agree. I love good schemes. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that if someone managed to hustle me out of a few hundred million or more through social engineering or something like that... I'd applaud. I'd bow my head and say 'yeah, you got me... you got me good.' I'd nod to myself, take note of everything I'd experienced, including any of the danger signs I maybe should have noticed, and considered it a lesson learned. Maybe a lesson worth the money I lost.
Then I'd sell six plex and throw the ISK to mercs in order to get the money back in ships destroyed.
Anyway, I'd be really interested in seeing a 'Guide to Scamming' written. The thing is, though, that any such 'public' guide would quickly turn into 'Guide to how not to be scammed'.
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I completely agree...
However, simple scams don't take charisma as much as sheer persistence.
Example:
Convincing someone who has been trying to join Goonswarm for more than a year that it's a good idea to talk his RL best friend and his best friends roommate into joining too and subsequently contract over three years worth of assets and a 1.5b security deposit takes quite a bit of charisma, confidence and imagination.
Running trade window window scams in Jita don't take any of those things at all. Well... save for possibly imagination. It just takes sheer persistence.
The point is, is that if you're persistent enough and committed enough, you can make scamming a viable and reliable isk machine. Be it recruitment scams, renting scams or trade hub scams or even elaborate wh corp theft scams... there's really something for every ability level.
Here's the problem most people run into when scamming:
Most of the time, if you're looking to scamming as your means of income, it's quite possible that it's because you find the rest of isk making mechanics to be incredibly excruciatingly boring or because you hear scamming is easy. That's why I got into scamming... I hate everything else and I heard it's easy. Here's where people have an issue... If you turn to scamming and you don't have any success, you quit and go back to what it is that you were doing before. If you don't have any success at first, it's probably because you lack the natural charisma and mental capacity to stay one step ahead of the mark and you fell flat on your face. However, instead of being clever and coming up with something within your ability and knowledge, you quit. This is where I'd like to step in.
I think I'm gonna do this, I'll make a guide. What I'll do is, is I'll put together a basic guide. The general do's and don'ts and some simple things to get you started. Anyone who is interested may feel free to contact me at any time if they want to learn more. I'll basically evaluate whoever comes to me for help and if I feel like you can handle advanced shit, I'll offer to teach you that one on one. This latter bit is what I'll be charging isk for.
HOLY SHIT DID HE SAY HE WAS GONNA CHARGE TO TEACH ME TO SCAM!?!?!?!!!11 IT'S A TARP!!!
Yes, I did. No, it's not. If I'm going to sit down and teach you to do it right, that means I'm taking time away from my new corp AND away from my own scamming. I don't mind doing it... but to quote the Joker, "If you're good at something, never do it for free." I probably made as much as 300b in scamming during the time I was in Goons and I have the chat logs and screenshots to prove it. I'm good at scamming and there's a good chance you'll make it back within your first few days. Will I have a set fee? No, I'm doing this as a favor to the community. I like teaching and helping people, so I'll only ask in compensation what you feel like the information is worth.
So... give me a few days and I'll put some shit together.
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Oh and...
I'll be putting this together under the presumption that it stays on this forum.
I personally don't use any of the shit I'll be putting in the basic guide, as it's a bit below my ability level and not worth my time. So, you dudes plastering it everywhere is only gonna help you fuck yourselves. If you want to make isk off it and you want your friends to make isk off it, keep it here on these forums, k?
We had a saying in Goons. DON'T FUCKING TALK IN RECRUITMENT CHAT. You post a recruitment ad in rec chat for Goonswarm and you are almost guaranteed to have one person start crying scam and it spreads like fucking wildfire. It kills the crop for a few days and fucks over everyone. The analogy we used was like throwing dynamite into a pond when you and your friends are trying to fish.
The point of this is to keep it in house. It will only help you.
I'll make a separate thread asking what you guys need the most help on and what you would like to see in a basic guide. Thanks for the feedback guys
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I mean this in absolutely no offense, and not directed at the OP, its just something that came to mind over the course of this thread.
Every time I see a "how to make money" self-help book, I have a brief fantasy in which someone purchases said book, takes it home and eagerly cracks open the covers, and finds the words "I hope you learned something today" sprawling the pages.
The most prevalent and easily pulled scams are ones in which the target is essentially paying to be scammed. Case in point, the "I'll train you to x if you give me x money." That's not just an EVE-based idea, thats all over the MMO world. Which I suppose ties into your idea of persistence v. charisma idea...
really, if you posted that line a billion times over the course of a week, eventually, someone would doubtlessly be dim enough to bite that lure.
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Awesome bro...
Even though I said I'll offer the advanced stuff for whatever you want to give me. If you want to give me 5m for my effort, I don't give a fuck... just something to compensate for my time.
Yes, what you said does happen alot. But those people also charge like $40 for the book. I'm not charging anything, I'm working off tips.
Please pay attention to what I say and don't shit all over what I'm trying to do. That didn't really help in any way.
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I don't mean to derail this thread, but seeing your avatar and then posting about scamming some guy in EVE is hilarious.
That must be lesson one. Use an avatar with something cute in it, like a kitten, puppy or child, to lure the victim into a false sense of security :D
Would love to read your scamming guidelines and thoughts, even if I would never use them in games, I think it would be really interesting.
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Well I'll start one then
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My next favorite "scam" was when Havo paid a noob in a corp we had decked 10 mil for the list of all 100 plus pilots in the corp. We had much fun with locator agents after that and made much more then the 10 mil back plus many fun killmails.
Good times. Good luck setting up shop.
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Perhaps the EVE Scam Guide (http://eve-scam.com/guide/) might be of interest here. (I didn't write it, but I'm a fan.)
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I don't even need to read it.
Riethe is a giant (word that Silver will delete) that has since quit the game. Read it... tell me if that helps you in any way. The most useful is his description of a ponzi scheme, but that's it.
This is also why, before, I said that if you want to actually be shown how to do the things I'm saying, I'm going to actually physically show you.