Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: kalaratiri on 15 Sep 2012, 12:31
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KneyUBMlQZw&feature=player_embedded
and just released now, although also unofficial.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M6n-YhIvno&feature=player_embedded
(If you think the last one was controversial, you ain't seen nothing yet)
This one isn't technically even a destroyer. But I'll slip it in here anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cHQq55DU74&feature=youtu.be
Starts off with what you've seen before.. then adds the Gallente destroyer (unskinned). And you should all recognise the fourth ship :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Eif63YEOA&feature=player_embedded
Stats released: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1979436#post1979436
Time has come to spam this forum section with another sticky - this time on the new destroyers coming out for winter.
The new destroyers keep the same role as existing hulls - anti-frigate platform. However they use alternate weapon systems to reach that goal, which means drones and missiles. Next to the existing destroyers, they have slightly less mobility, more signature radius, less capacitor but have a bit better EHP and increased damage projection due to the weapon types they use. Price will be the same than for existing destroyers.
AMARR DESTROYER:
The Amarr destroyer is designed to take down opposition through indirect means. On the downside, the damage is nothing to write home about, but the combination of energy disruption ability plus drone control makes it dangerous at shutting enemy frigates off, then finishing them properly when they're helpless. It also has quite a generous dronebay, for multiple drone replacements.
Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone damage and hitpoint per level
+20% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer range per level
Role bonus:
+25% to ship capacitor recharge rate
Slot layout: 6 H, 2 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 750 / 950 / 850
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 600 / 370s / 1.62s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235 / 2.75 / 1700000 / 4.71s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 39km / 525 / 6
Sensor strength: 10 radar
Signature radius: 66
Cargo capacity: 300
CALDARI DESTROYER:
Missiles, missiles, missiles, missiles, that's what this hull is all about. It spams missiles a quite a long range, and boasts improved explosion velocity to catch those pesky annoying little orbiting frigates.
Ship bonuses:
+5% to rocket and light missile kinetic damage per level
+10% to rocket and light missile explosion velocity per level
Role bonus:
+50% to rocket and light missile velocity
Slot layout: 8 H, 3 M, 2 L, 8 launchers
Fittings: 45 PWG, 210 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 950 / 750 / 750
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 500 / 320s / 1.56s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 250 / 2.5 / 1900000 / 4.89s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 475 / 7
Sensor strength: 12 gravimetric
Signature radius: 69
Cargo capacity: 450
GALLENTE DESTROYER:
Gallente are always about raw firepower, that's why this ship combines both turret and drone damage to achieve its goals. While the damage is lower than a Catalyst, remember that drone projection remains stable at much farther ranges (especially with drone damage amplifier changes below). On the downside, it has a limited dronebay next to the Amarr version, making it more difficult to replace lost drones.
Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone damage and HP per level
+5% to small hybrid turret damage per level
Role bonus:
+50% small hybrid turret optimal range
Slot layout: 6 H, 3 M, 3 L, 4 turrets
Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 / 850 / 950
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 550 / 350s / 1.57s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240 / 2.45 / 1800000 / 4.46s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42km / 500 / 7
Sensor strength: 11 magnetometric
Signature radius: 72
Cargo capacity: 350
MINMATAR DESTROYER:
This ship is unique among all Destroyers as it has a bonus that improves survivability - it is designed to zip around in the battlefield at high velocities while spewing missiles. As a downside however it's less efficient at hitting fast moving targets at greater ranges than the Caldari hull is.
Ship bonuses:
+5% to rocket and light missile explosion damage per level
15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty per level
Role bonus:
+50% to rocket and light missile velocity
Slot layout: 7 H, 3 M, 3 L, 7 launchers
Fittings: 48 PWG, 200 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 850 / 800 / 800
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 450 / 290s / 1.55s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 255 / 2.89 / 1600000 / 4.64s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 36km / 550 / 6
Sensor strength: 9 ladar
Signature radius: 60
Cargo capacity: 400
MODULE CHANGES:
Balancing these ships made us realize some further tweaks were needed on some modules to make these destroyers, and as an extend, some other ships / setups more useful.
* All light missile launcher fittings: CPU reduced by 4, PWG reduced by 2
* Drone Damage Amplifier I: CPU increased from 27 to 30, drone damage increased from 15 to 16%
* Drone Damage Amplifier II: CPU reduced from 32 to 30, drone damage increased from 19 to 23%
Please remember all of this still is working progress (especially on the fittings - we're aware that both the Amarr and Gallente variations have exact CPU / PWG ) and up to change.
Look at that, a tiny curse! :D
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Impressive. Loving the recent additions to the Caldari line up visually and hopnig that the other three new dessies are every bit as good!
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Nice. Appropriate music, too - the thing does look a bit like a u-boat. All it needs is a cov-ops cloak.
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Gotta say, not as much a fan. It doesn't have that hard edged utility that I've come to like out of the caldari. The Caracal, moa, ferox, blackbird...they have a very certain feel about them that is just very Caldari, and I'm not sure if the new ships have that. The Tengu did, the new scorpion sort of did, the new stealthbomber did, but the new naga didn't at all really, and neither does this new one. It feels more like a Gallente/Caldari or Caldari/Amarr cross project then a straight up Caldari boat.
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Would work if you amputate about the right third of the boat, maybe. I concur with Saede; newer Caldari designs have been way too light on the sharp angles and in-your-face asymetry.
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I don't like those little flippers it has. Two on one side, three on the other side?
Must agree... doesn't scream Caldari to me. Caldari ships should look like an accident at a box stacking warehouse.
Then again, my sense of aesthetics might be off, as I consider the Moa to be quite beautiful.
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It actually looks more like a Gallente hull than a Caldari one to me.
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I like it. But I like the Naga as well, so vOv?
And there is asymmetry, but tastefully dispensed.
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Looks good to me!
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All they need now is a T2 bomber variant so I can launch torpedoes from my space U-boat: Das Boot.
As for aesthetics, it looks like it does its job and is built to do it. Caldari designs to me we were always those utilitarian and functional ones. Doesn't matter if they're asymmetrical or not.
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I love the Naga and the Rokh, so I like this a lot. :D
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There are no tiers! Shame on you. :P
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I like the Naga, but not this. :(
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Well, it sure looks a little gallente on the global shape, but definitly caldari on the details.
I have noticed a new aesthetical trend anyway since Revelation and the tier 2 BCs and tier 3 BSes. We saw minmatar actually (almost) "finished" ships like the hurricane or the maelstrom, symmetrical and aesthetical ships like the Drake or the Rokh for the caldari. The Amarr and Gallente were however pretty loyal to the first racial designs, and the Caldari/Minmatar new ones were still completely fitting, just a bit... different, like a new breed of the next technological generation.
Then it got even deeper when tech 3 appeared.
Caldari lost a lot of its "blocky/brick" appearance and started to got little wings everywhere and a lot of details overall. Their fighters/bombers, as well as their new stealth bomber are very, very Stargate-like to me, elegant jet fighters coming directly from the future. They also have the naga, which is a little more loyal to the old designs (like the drake) but too straight to be similar to a moa or an osprey though.
Gallente started to see new shapes in their totalitarian organic design. I mean, straight shapes, straight wings and a lot of aesthetical bits. You can find them a bit in the propulsion subsystems of the Proteus, but the new Talos screams that litterally and some people almost were tempted to say it had caldari bits here and there when they released it. The core of the hull is too straight and rigid to be completely gallente as well as the left and right wings.
Minmatar remained maybe the closer to their original look, even if there was something definitly new in the Loki.
Amarr also changed a bit with the legion, which seems confused about its general shape, unlike amarr ships that are most often clear cut out of circular basic forms (most visible with their stations especially).
Overall their new design seems to add more and more little details everywhere, making the new shapes a lot more complex. Just get a look at the noctis if you are not convinced. They also seem more dependant/caring of the aesthetical look of their ships, which was less the case with the old designs that were not always designed for their beauty, but they artistic beauty (which is sometimes different).
Or well, that's my feeling.
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Well CCP is giving a new art direction to each. Gallente as per Talos/Velator, Minmatar as per Tornado/Reaper, Amarr as per Maller/Oracle/Impairor, Caldari as per Scorpion/Raven/Drake/Naga/Ibis.
The new Minmatar design is controversial for being less rustic, while I approve of the new Gallente design for being less space turd looking, and more functional
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And as usual, T'amber is already on the move with his cel-shaded version (http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/CPPC/teir2_caldari_destroyer_celshaded_c.png).
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Well CCP is giving a new art direction to each. Gallente as per Talos/Velator, Minmatar as per Tornado/Reaper, Amarr as per Maller/Oracle/Impairor, Caldari as per Scorpion/Raven/Drake/Naga/Ibis.
The new Minmatar design is controversial for being less rustic, while I approve of the new Gallente design for being less space turd looking, and more functional
Yea, I rather like the changes and variety these :different: hulls add to the lineups. Makes it seem like ship designers in each of the empires are applying lessons learned from the decade of capsuleer warfare in order to try and make better ships.
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And as usual, T'amber is already on the move with his cel-shaded version (http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/CPPC/teir2_caldari_destroyer_celshaded_c.png).
Man I love T'Amber. CCP should just hire him already, their art bottleneck would vanish in a matter of days. >.>
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while I approve of the new Gallente design for being less space turd looking, and more functional
The Dominix certainly needs to look more functional along the lines of the new Gallente design aesthetic. Such a solid ship, yet so damn ugly.
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while I approve of the new Gallente design for being less space turd looking, and more functional
The Dominix certainly needs to look more functional along the lines of the new Gallente design aesthetic. Such a solid ship, yet so damn ugly.
If the dominix was an attractive hull, I likely would have already trained Gallente.
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while I approve of the new Gallente design for being less space turd looking, and more functional
The Dominix certainly needs to look more functional along the lines of the new Gallente design aesthetic. Such a solid ship, yet so damn ugly.
If the dominix was an attractive hull, I likely would have already trained Gallente.
Do you have any idea how many people over the years I hear say "I love the domi, but dear gods it's ugly..."
Seems nearly anyone that flies it does so for it's function while silently praying it will one day suddenly spontaneously transform into something more nice-looking.
Speaking of Gallente hulls, Please excuse me while I go hunt down the Fed traitor that join the State and designed their new Destroyer hull. If they had given this a gun-metal/sapphire-blue coloring and smoothed some details a bit it might as well have been a Federation Navy vessel. Darn it I *like* the asymmetrical design quirks the Caldari use.
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Please excuse me while I go hunt down the Fed traitor that join the State and designed their new Destroyer hull.
In addition to those other Fed traitors that join the State, no doubt.
*flees*
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I don't think that CCP has a choice in the new direction of the design of the ships.
The old artists have left and the new ones are not competent enough to capture the feel of the old ships.
Simple as that.
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What a remarkably interesting comment. :ugh:
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Sweeping statements lacking content abound. Long story short, I feel that a design concept that seems to polarize the community as much as this, are much more interesting and dynamic than those on which we either all agree, or overlook.
I like the look and feel it retains the utilitarian look of Caldari ships, whilst updating and showing progress in their design philosophy.
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OP edited.
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wat is that.
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Man the harpoons, we're hunting spacewhales!
They better name that thing the Harpoon, srsly.
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I actually like it (and the Fallout 2 music.)
It'll look better with missile launchers, but it's like the Hound's daddy.
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I'm rather :eek:, :?: and :psyccp: about the Minmatar one.
The Gallente and Amarr destroyers better not be as out-outlandish, I still want a mini-Myrm and smaller brother for the Omen.
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Nice, I love the look of the new Minmatar one as well! Here's hoping for a vertical Gallente and Amarrian desty.
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I think the new minmatar destroyer is plain weird... But I actually rather like it. (Although, the comment on TheMitanni that it's a nose hair trimmer is going to haunt my dreams)
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It starts to grow on me, then I take another look at it, and hate it, then when I close the window, the design starts to grow on me again. Clearly it is a minmatar space fungus.
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Not quite the place for it, but whatever. CCP Fozzie went into some detail about the choice to make the Tristan the drone frigate, while the t2 drone frig, the Ishkur, is based on the Incursus body. Also gives a minor insight into the Nemesis redesign. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1932514&#post1932514
Well you see there's a funny story about all this.
Back in YC 105 when CreoDron was beginning the design process for their new Ishkur-class Assault Ship, they naturally looked first to the (retroactively) drone-centric Tristan as a base hull. The project lead Masalle Ambrette acquired a large number of Tristan hulls for prototyping and set her team to work.
However two major technical challenges quickly arose. Roni Darieux himself had given them their design targets, and he was adamant that the new ship had to be the pinnacle of drone carrier technology. The Ishkur must be able to field a 50m3 dronebay as well as top of the line armor plating for a Frigate.
These goals proved difficult to meet using the Tristan as a base hull. Although it had the largest dronebay of any existing Frigate at the time the Tristan's hull layout did not allow for easy expansion of the already significant bay. In particular, the port side bulkhead quickly lost structural integrity when the internal supports were scaled back in order to expand the bay. Attempts to meet the armor plating requirements also ran into difficulties as the Tristan thruster systems struggled to keep up under the heavier load. The classic thruster pod design of the Tristan hull did not provide easy expansion room to upgrade the thrusters either.
After numerous failures in the prototyping process the CreoDron team decided to change course and build the Ishkur using a completely different hull. They eventually settled on the Incursus hull as the next logical choice. Although the Incursus did not have the same base dronebay that the Tristan offered, it was more easily modified and the conversion from the Incursus' advanced armor repair systems to the Ishkur's superior resistance and plating systems proceeded relatively smoothly. As a bonus, the team was able to carry over the Incursus' superior hybrid weapon damage boosting technology and create another strong selling point for their new Assault Ship.
Although the Ishkur project resulted in what would prove to be an extremely successful ship (in both direct ship sales and additional profits from increased use of CreoDron's advanced drone portfolio), Masalle Ambrette was left afterwards with thousands of mangled Tristan hulls that had failed the prototyping process. In order to recoup some of the development costs, CreoDron sold the hulls cheap as scrap to the highest bidder.
They say one woman's trash is another woman's treasure, and when CreoDron put the 'scrap' onto the market one smart scientist saw a diamond in the rough. Ruborraude Eyghelet, a rising star at Duvolle Laboratories, had just been recently put in charge of a top secret development project on contract from the Federation Navy. Her team was designing what would eventually come to be known as the Nemesis stealth bomber, a dramatic departure from normal Gallente battle doctrines that would help keep them competitive in the battlefields of the future. Eyghelet knew that the Nemesis would need to be a radical departure from previous frigate designs, but building a new hull design completely from scratch would take a portion of her limited budget that she could not afford to lose. When the report of the mangled Tristan fire-sale crossed her desk she immediately saw an opportunity to cut her costs.
The damaged Tristan hulls were reformed into a barely recognizable state during the prototyping process to accommodate the battleship sized missile launchers and bomb deployment system, with only the iconic front plating remaining to visually connect it to the frigate it had once been. The dronebay was converted into a bomb and missile storage bay, and the Duvolle team also managed to ingeniously convert the advanced tracking computer on the Tristan into an efficient missile guidance system. In the end Duvolle and Eyghelet managed to create the Nemesis while keeping costs down to only 14% overbudget, easily beating the market predictions and sending Duvolle stock to the highest it had reached in years.
It just goes to prove that the world of spaceship construction is more complicated and fascinating than any of us would expect.
That end bit just added in as a "Well you try rebalancing the whole damn game :l" :D
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So, ship balancing is supposed to be considered retroactive? I always considered them to be regular design updates, not time-traveling ones. (I know, the question is why the already-built ones change. But that's easier to accept than Oceania always having been at war with Eastasia. [IP rights are -really- strong in EVE.])
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Huh, if the real ones end up being like this, I like the Caldari one, kinda sub like.
The Minmatar one reminds me of a American Civil War era Monitor or something. The pillbox on top and the ram like fins on the front really push that look to me.
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OP updated.
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I love the lore-expansion offered in the notes.
But yes, I'd played hull changes as some odd and all-encompassing kind of product recall and refit, not a retcon.
Edited to add that the Minmatar design has a definite "tick" thing going on.
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ORE frigate is actually really cute in a spaceshippy kind of way. I ♥ the design.
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_o_ hug?
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OP Updated.
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Caldari - I still say it looks more Gallente than Caldari. Shouldn't Caldari designs be getting more minimalistic and anti-aesthetic as the war drags on and resources become tight? :|
Minmatar: Notsureifwant.jpg. It looks like someone took an ORE barge, gave it a rust paintjob and stuck it behind a bunch of solar panels. I mean, yeah, the Mael and Tornado look more finished, but they don't look like bricks glued to random bits of shiny metal plate either.
ORE Frigate: Oh, I -love- this little thing. I may train ORE frigate just to hop in one and see what it feels like to fly. If the Caldari have been loosing their industrio-functional feel over the years, then it's apparently gone into the design of this little critter.
Gallente Destroyer: Okay, between the ORE Frigate and this, faith in the design team officially restored. It's some kind of wierd cross between the Battlestar Galactica and that Republic Cruiser (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080912035747/starwars/images/thumb/d/d3/Radiant7_negvv.jpg/1000px-Radiant7_negvv.jpg) that briefly appeared in The Phantom Menace, with a bit of organic flowing lines thrown in for flavor. And I love it.
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That Tempest model makes me want to fly Minmatar.
Seriously!
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That Tempest model makes me want to fly Minmatar.
Seriously!
It is rather gorgeous :3 It actually looks finished and totally makes up for the new dessie. Return of the nano-tempest gangs maybe..? Or even armour RR...
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mild caldarification of the tempest to make up for non-caldari-looking cal dessie and turd-looking minnie dessie?
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https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1952851#post1952851
Hello folks,
This topic is about the ORE frigate coming out this winter. While its concept art can be seen in the Ship Balancing Summer Update blog and some speculation has already started, time has come to talk about it in details.
Designed as an entry mining ship, it will replace the old 4 mining frigates in the Industry Career Path (the Tormentor, Bantam, Navitas and Burst). Compared to them, it has a much improved mining output, capacitor reliance and mobility, while having a decent 5000m3 ore hold. Its purpose is to be a fast hull capable of mining in hostile space (even if the current value of high-sec ores defeats this quite a bit, but that's another problem). It also serves as a gas harvester, a profession that was lacking love until now. With its +2 warp core strength bonus, it should stand a fair chance of doing its job in low-security space without being instantly tackled and killed.
It also comes with a brand new skill, mining frigate, rank 2. Further down the drain we will change mining barge skill requirements to need mining frigate at 4, but not for winter - we'll most likely do that at the same time as the Destroyer and Battlecruiser skill changes to minimize training issues and complications. Again, since its the entry ship for mining, expect the market price to be low.
Mining frigate skill bonuses:
+5% to mining yield per level
+5% to gas harvesting yield per level
Role bonuses:
+100% to mining yield
+100% to gas harvesting yield
+ 2 warp core stabilizer bonus
Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 1 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 45 PWG, 240 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 225 / 175 / 200
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 250 / 125s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 335 / 3.6 / 1200000 / 4.04s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 15km / 750 / 5
Sensor strength: 4 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 40
Cargo capacity: 50
Ore hold: 5000
Constructive comments are welcome :yar:
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Wat ? 5000 m3 ? Isnt that twice what a T1 barge can haul ? :eek:
Also, 2 turrets points, I wonder where they are going to put them since there is 6 obvious spots on the forehead of the ship.
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It's offset by having no skill bonus to cargo space and only 1 T1 lowslot to work with - which, I imagine, most people will be doing something else with than a cargo expander.
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I hope quite desperately that myko- and cytoserocin will fit in the ore hold. If so - a fast frigate that can gas mine better than most cruisers? Very cool. I may stop ignoring the non-combat LADAR sites. Yay, dividends from the Serpentis takeover of ORE!
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The -serocins are 10m3 per unit, meaning you can fit 500 units into each run with the ORE frigate. That's anywhere from 1/2 to 1/6 of a Ladar site, so multiple runs will be necessary; the real deciding factor will be how many Gas Harvesters you can fit on that little frigate.
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maybe they'll be a T2 variant made specifically for gas cloud harvesting.
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https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1953350#post1953350
And yes, folks, despite its name, gas is automatically harvested into the Ore hold. Wanted to file a bug report to CCP Tuxford in case it didn't, but he was quite clever and implemented that ahead of time during the mining barge changes.
Clever girl.
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The -serocins are 10m3 per unit, meaning you can fit 500 units into each run with the ORE frigate. That's anywhere from 1/2 to 1/6 of a Ladar site, so multiple runs will be necessary; the real deciding factor will be how many Gas Harvesters you can fit on that little frigate.
That would be 2, since they use turret slots. Not very fast.
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Hm, just noticed that. Bonused at 100%, that's still equivalent to four; not bad for a frigate hull.
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Hm, just noticed that. Bonused at 100%, that's still equivalent to four; not bad for a frigate hull.
It's confirmed to be equivalent to 5 if you have the frigate skill to 5, actually. :D
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Hm, just noticed that. Bonused at 100%, that's still equivalent to four; not bad for a frigate hull.
It's confirmed to be equivalent to 5 if you have the frigate skill to 5, actually. :D
Indeed.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1953072#post1953072
The bonuses multiply, thus its 2*1.25 = 2.5 boost at level 5. Thus the 2 bonused gas harvesters become 5.
The ship was play tested in low-security gas sites - it's not necessarily made to tank null-security sites as it is an entry level hull.
As said in the OP, industry tutorials should be changed to give this frigate instead of the old ones.
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I can't remember, are remainders summed across harvesters or discarded? Because T1 harvesters (I know, who uses those?) would end up at 25 m3 each...
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So, in line with the 5-harvester Moa, then? Mmm... not bad. Essentially a trade of increased cargo space for having all the HP of an origami frigate.
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Right then, training mining frigate to V
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https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1962805#post1962805
Hey folks,
We're going to look into changing the gas harvesting yield bonus into a cycle time, mainly for the reasons you suggested - good catch.
Regarding the ore bay, it does not allow gas to be moved into it, but harvested gas is automatically moved when you do use the ship. It means that if you take the gas out after harvesting it you won't be able to put it back in. We're considering changing ore bays to allow you to carry gas around back and forth to make it more consistent.
Also, we estimate the +2 warp stabilizer bonus to be fine for now - the ship almost has no defense on its own, and desperately needs it to compete in the areas it's supposed to operate.
Regarding the gas yield performance itself, keep in mind this remains an entry level ship, not supposed to outclass the competition in every single area. This ship is highly mobile, has a good storage capacity, it should not be the best at everything regarding gas or we would be falling back into the old Hulk case all over again ;)
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OP Updated.
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Caldari: Awesome, long range missile projection and frigate killing. Will be a pvp monster.
Amarr: Awwww! a Mini-Curse! Thats so cute! And pretty awesome too!
Minmatar: Awesome! Speed and missiles! Zip around and murder things!
Gallente: Shafted.
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https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1980051#post1980051
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Gallente - kill the hybrid damage bonus. Give it a hybrid tracking bonus instead. Give it a fifth turret slot (4 * 1.25 = 5 anyways). It's CPU is too weak to consider drone upgrades in those two spare highs anyways.
Hmmm interesting, that's one way of putting it - it negates tracking issues with rails and give the boat some love. We'll have another math run at this after the week-end. Keep the constructive comments coming people.
Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaainz
Gallente may possibly be slightly less shafted if that goes through. Good post from Zarnak!
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The Amarr destroyer is totally for me. :eek:
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Kinetic missile damage bonus, we meet again. :s
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Caldari: Awesome, long range missile projection and frigate killing. Will be a pvp monster.
Amarr: Awwww! a Mini-Curse! Thats so cute! And pretty awesome too!
Minmatar: Awesome! Speed and missiles! Zip around and murder things!
Gallente: Shafted.
I was just thinking that. Honestly, if this goes through the way it is now the Gallente destroyer will be entirely worthless compared to ALL OTHER DESTROYERS. Less damage than the catalyst, and a set of weapons that can easily be shot down, and have only 2 full light sets? As opposed to a 8-launcher long-range easy-to-hit-small-stuff Caldari destroyer that everyone and their mother will fly, nano, and kite people to death with?
Thanks CCP. Thank you so much. :bash:
Fix this bullshit or take the eternal flame-fest.
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On that note, lol, poor flycatcher. Now you will be forever relegated to double bubble setups.
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I must admit I am somewhat hesitant to declare a drone-based destroyer to be "instant awesome", particularly for the Amarr one which lacks other DPS.
The reason is this: Against a traditional 7-small-gun-destroyer setup, light drones simply evaporate; against the old-style super-Dramiels, I found that one of the best ways to fight them to a standstill was to shoot down their drones. This could be quickly accomplished with my weapon groups split 4/3, and the 10% hull HP bonus on the Amarr hull may only give that a few seconds longer life. The Arbitrator is a lot more durable in this matter, since those TDs mean you can force a target's tracking down to nothing; the destroyer does not have that, though.
So, I suspect a lot of it will come down to tactics.
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Not sure why the Gal one got a 50% Optimal bonus when without a tracking bonus it makes a rail fit a bit average and it looks more viable as an injected blaster/neut boat or something. :psyccp:
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Not really relevant to the dessies, but still: http://themittani.com/news/eve-online-retribution-london-meet-leaks
Our extremely drunk correspondent at the London Eve Meetup has the following details for us about the upcoming Winter Expansion.
It will be called 'Retribution'
It is scheduled for a December 4th Release
Our extremely drunk correspondent cornered CCP Soundwave and got the following from him about what to expect this expansion:
Own3d Tournament promotion
CCP Fozzie's balancing of ships
UI changes
Redoing bounties: Instead of the current system, put a bounty on anyone, corp or alliance. On ships as well as pods. A percentage calculation is involved.
Sell or rent out kill rights.
Aggression mechanics change with three states: Nothing, yellow skull, Red skull.
Second run of Faction Warfare iterations; no more speed tanking plexes.
New destroyers and mining frigates.
Our extremely drunk correspondent then bothered CCP Unifex:
Revamping websites: Corporate and other channels available through browsers.
A bunch of 'stuff' about DUST, which we'll get when our intrepid correspondent finishes nursing his hangover.
I'm curious to see what the balance of "Eve Stuff" versus "Dust Stuff" is featured in the expansion; so far the tweaks offered seem somewhat minor. Perhaps more will be revealed in the official press announcements.
Anyone in London who can corroborate?
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Art time!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/222092_10151178213189394_936546299_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/564114_10151178213949394_1605195340_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/561845_10151178214004394_209270229_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/396449_10151159503709394_416496394_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/417279_10151178213879394_852408876_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/317683_10151178214054394_377081808_n.jpg)
(Salvage Drone)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/598706_10151178213549394_1499465031_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/304486_10151178213729394_1600602824_n.jpg)
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Hereby corroborated. It seems like it'll be a slightly lean expansion, although the new ships and aggro/bounty/kill rights mechanics might impact my game quite a bit. Or not. Still too wrecked to think clearly.
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TBH, with all the heavily game changing stuff they're adding, I wouldn't want it to be any fatter. There's gonna be enough of an impact as is. Lets see where all this stuff settles out.
I'm awaiting the details on these new systems.
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What precisely are 'UI Changes'? Fingers cross it's the corp interface that's getting love?
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That amarr destroyer is a little too much identical to the coercer to my taste. They could have done better imo.
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http://www.eveonline.com/retribution/
And we're up! Very little info currently, but there should be more on the way soon :D
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I agree with Lyn. The Amarr dessie looks like a retrofitted Coercer. Mind, speaking purely IC it makes sense that the lumbering Empire with an already-existing huge fleet would simply modify their existing ships. But really? Meh.
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Oh well as long as they come with a reasonable "retrofitting" explanation I am fine with it. It is just that we are mostly used to see retrofitting designs with tech 2 versions mostly.
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I dunno, I like, the homogenization of the Amarr lineup, it feels like their ships really should be similar. I mean, if you took off the Side sections of the Abaddon, you're practically left with the Apoc. The Amarr look good with similarly shaped hulls.
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http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/29/ccp-unveils-eve-online-retribution-coming-this-winter/
Soundwave and Unifex talk about Retribution :)
Coming features discussion starts after the third picture down. Before that is just some introduction/game history stuff.
Point of particular interest, right at the bottom:
Additionally, there will be a strong push to bring EVE back toward its original backstory of broken wormholes and stranded civilizations.
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Destroyer stats update from Ytterbium: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1999506#post1999506
Update!
Amarr:
Cap recharge bonus moved into the hull itself - thus capacitor recharge rate reduced from 370 to 275s
Role bonus changed to 25% MWD speed to drones
Caldari:
Removed one high slot and launcher slot, gained one mid slot - thus layout now is 7 / 4 / 2, 7 launchers
Gallente:
Drone bandwidth increased to 35m3
Drone bay increased to 60m3
Turret number increased from 4 to 5
5% hybrid turret damage bonus per level changed for 10% hybrid turret tracking bonus per level
Role bonus changed from 50% hybrid turret optimal range to 25% MWD speed to drones
Minmatar hull unchanged.
To answer some questions that have been asked before:
Why having a fixed damage bonus on the Caldari and Minmatar hulls, didn't you want to move away from this philosophy?
Yes we definitely do, when it makes sense. For instance, we kept a kinetic damage bonus on the Condor, while the Kestrel has a generic one. In this particular case however, having general damage bonuses on these two hulls would bring them too close of each other.
Don't you think the Caldari hull is going to have an insane alpha with light missiles, or just too good in general?
The layout change will help mitigate that somewhat. If it still too much of an issue we can always revert the light missile damage change and increase the ROF on light and rapid light missile launchers instead.
Why is the Amarr hull better at drone management than the Gallente one?
That was a good point that should now be fixed. The drone bay will however stay larger on the Amarr hull as it is a trait currently encountered in Amarr versus Gallente drone ships.
Doesn't a 25% MWD drone bonus break drones trying to catch static targets?
CCP Fozzie made me run some tests at gunpoint, 25% seems to be okay.
What's the point of the Catalyst next to the new Gallente hull?
We're planning some changes for it - keep an eye for them in the next days on this thread ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=142102&find=unread )
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Ugh. Asymmetry.
To be honest, I've been utterly fucking tired of asymmetrical designs for years, but especially ones like the new Caldari destroyer, where it isn't even big asymmetry. At least ships like the Moa and the Thanatos, hideous as they are, go whole-hog on their asymmetry and don't even look remotely similar on both sides. This new Caldari Destroyer? It's just this one little dinky bit on one side that isn't the same as the bit on the other side. That actually makes it worse than the fully asymmetrical ships, because at least you know the Moa's never going to look remotely presentable. Ships like this new Caldari destroyer would look so much better if they just got rid of the tiny little bit of asymmetry.
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Ugh. Asymmetry.
To be honest, I've been utterly fucking tired of asymmetrical designs for years, but especially ones like the new Caldari destroyer, where it isn't even big asymmetry. At least ships like the Moa and the Thanatos, hideous as they are, go whole-hog on their asymmetry and don't even look remotely similar on both sides. This new Caldari Destroyer? It's just this one little dinky bit on one side that isn't the same as the bit on the other side. That actually makes it worse than the fully asymmetrical ships, because at least you know the Moa's never going to look remotely presentable. Ships like this new Caldari destroyer would look so much better if they just got rid of the tiny little bit of asymmetry.
The opposite of my thoughts exactly. :)
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Ugh. Asymmetry.
To be honest, I've been utterly fucking tired of asymmetrical designs for years, but especially ones like the new Caldari destroyer, where it isn't even big asymmetry. At least ships like the Moa and the Thanatos, hideous as they are, go whole-hog on their asymmetry and don't even look remotely similar on both sides. This new Caldari Destroyer? It's just this one little dinky bit on one side that isn't the same as the bit on the other side. That actually makes it worse than the fully asymmetrical ships, because at least you know the Moa's never going to look remotely presentable. Ships like this new Caldari destroyer would look so much better if they just got rid of the tiny little bit of asymmetry.
The opposite of my thoughts exactly. :)
Same here. Differing opinions and all that.
I kind of like symmetry, but a little bit of asymmetric design isn't bad. The Moa is ugly, the Thorax is great, and so on. At least, Andreus, the new Fed destroyer seems to be symmetrical, ne?
I'm also glad to note that the Fed destroyer's layout don't make for a complete fail-boat that can be dominated by a 10-year-old, and the Caldari one get a slight 'nerf', in removing one launcher and adding a mid. While I'm sure the hordes of Caldari players are crying right now (I will have to admit an 8-launcher hull that's not a super-rare tournament prize is a very tempting idea) it's helping on my faith that CCP seem to want a balance between the ships instead of making one or two of them completely over-powering towards the others.
Because that's how they started. 50m3 drone-bay 25m3 control and 4 turrets VS 8 launchers and likely far greater speed. 3 guesses who would win that engagement when the Caldari one could stick 5 launchers on the ship and 3 on drones and still have more weapons on the enemy than it's opponent. Now things are a tad more balanced. Not quite there yet, but it's better than nothing. I've no idea what they are thinking with the new drone bandwith change, but we will see how it goes.
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I'm also glad to note that the Fed destroyer's layout don't make for a complete fail-boat that can be dominated by a 10-year-old, and the Caldari one get a slight 'nerf', in removing one launcher and adding a mid.
Actually I'm glad that it has 4 med slots, too, because that seems to make it much more flexible.
Regarding crying, btw, you might want to check, seems like you've got some sand in your eye yourself.
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I'm also glad to note that the Fed destroyer's layout don't make for a complete fail-boat that can be dominated by a 10-year-old, and the Caldari one get a slight 'nerf', in removing one launcher and adding a mid.
Actually I'm glad that it has 4 med slots, too, because that seems to make it much more flexible.
Regarding crying, btw, you might want to check, seems like you've got some sand in your eye yourself.
Oooh, burn. "Right back at you." :lol:
Having said that, I did expect load of bitching, but it would appear not to be the case - I expected it as I actually looked forward to the 8-launcher setup, but then that was changed, and yeah, I actually like the 4-mid setup as well, better tank or utility, and so on - but most people went 'yeah okay, this works' instead.
It still remains to be seen how this develops however - Amarr destroyer still look somewhat under-capable, Fed one too, Minmatar is okay, but gods, it's ugly, and the Caldari one still looks like the natural king-of-the-hill among destroyers. Nevertheless, as stated I'm carefully optimistic about these, and being works in progress things can easily change.