Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE Corporation and Alliance Development => Topic started by: ArtOfLight on 11 Mar 2013, 06:21
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So, after giving it some thought, I may dissolve WTR before it gets going and simply sign on with DUTY. While, from a purely RP perspective, there are aspects of DUTY that would keep Mal at bay, from an OOC perspective, trying to divide the bloc is counter-productive, especially since most of the founding members of DUTY are former WHG.
Perhaps having Mal take issue with some of the aspects of DUTY (in time) would be a good internal RP source anyway.
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So, after giving it some thought, I may dissolve WTR before it gets going and simply sign on with DUTY. While, from a purely RP perspective, there are aspects of DUTY that would keep Mal at bay, from an OOC perspective, trying to divide the bloc is counter-productive, especially since most of the founding members of DUTY are former WHG.
Perhaps having Mal take issue with some of the aspects of DUTY (in time) would be a good internal RP source anyway.
Nuu, diversity of the blocs was once a richness not counter-productive. The thing that made EVE RP once so special, but that is a topic of it's own and not for cluttering up other peoples recruitment threads.
However, wanting a good group to fly with from an OOC perspective, especially with friends, I can sympathize your feelings and it's nice to see RP-PVP corps grow :3
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Nuu, diversity of the blocs was once a richness not counter-productive. The thing that made EVE RP once so special, but that is a topic of it's own and not for cluttering up other peoples recruitment threads.
Mm, good point. I hadn't thought of that when I posted originally. Can I get a moderator to move this post, Pryce's response and my original post out of this thread so as not to take away from the relevant discussion? I apologize for the trouble.
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So, after giving it some thought, I may dissolve WTR before it gets going and simply sign on with DUTY. While, from a purely RP perspective, there are aspects of DUTY that would keep Mal at bay, from an OOC perspective, trying to divide the bloc is counter-productive, especially since most of the founding members of DUTY are former WHG.
Perhaps having Mal take issue with some of the aspects of DUTY (in time) would be a good internal RP source anyway.
If I may bring my own advice...
1) Don't make unconsiderate decisions. You already posted an IGS announcement and since you already have done similar things in the past (opening something to quit shortly after) it could be a bad thing OOCly, I think.
2) It is true that two corps, if they share the same core gameplay or RP (or both) will step on each other feet when it comes to recruiting. It is also true that the Caldari RP scene is not especially lacking of caldari RPers these days, so... vOv
3) Vince said that diversity is good for RP and conflict. It's really true (and that's why RP went poorer with TEA when they removed the sub factionnal conflicts). Well, it is true when you can afford it as a faction and if you have the right pool of RPers.
4) I do not especially see having different opinions and mindset being an issue when joining a corp. Actually it can bring a lot of RP internal conflict (of course you will have to keep a certain balance to avoid drama going out of control ICly). Aldrith did it with PIE recently, I have done it several times also, from amarrian entities to gallente loyalists, so... It does not end well ICly each time though, be warned. :p
Well, that's from my own experience on the matter anyway.
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If I may bring my own advice...
1) Don't make unconsiderate decisions. You already posted an IGS announcement and since you already have done similar things in the past (opening something to quit shortly after) it could be a bad thing OOCly, I think.
All of your points are pretty solid advice, so I appreciate your input. I would touch on this one, however. I started two projects: Wiyrkomi Honor Guard and the Order of Light's Retribution. Order of Light's Retribution was cancelled for the same reason that I left Wiyrkomi Honor Guard, I was undergoing a situation in which my father unexpectedly committed suicide and I pretty much was unable to maintain emotional stability, let alone run anything in EVE.
While I understand this can give the perception that I started and quit, I would hope that anyone with any idea of what happened would be understanding.
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The only thing I would point out is that both groups will be recruiting from the pool of Eve Players / Roleplayers / Caldari / Loyalist / Faction War.
That's quite the sub-sub-subset.
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If I may bring my own advice...
1) Don't make unconsiderate decisions. You already posted an IGS announcement and since you already have done similar things in the past (opening something to quit shortly after) it could be a bad thing OOCly, I think.
All of your points are pretty solid advice, so I appreciate your input. I would touch on this one, however. I started two projects: Wiyrkomi Honor Guard and the Order of Light's Retribution. Order of Light's Retribution was cancelled for the same reason that I left Wiyrkomi Honor Guard, I was undergoing a situation in which my father unexpectedly committed suicide and I pretty much was unable to maintain emotional stability, let alone run anything in EVE.
While I understand this can give the perception that I started and quit, I would hope that anyone with any idea of what happened would be understanding.
Not saying the contrary and definitly understanding myself. It's mostly a matter of image, or how things are percieved, at least unconsciously.
I know what happened because I read these forums.
A lot of people do not, however. Either by ignorance or just unconsciously, they will think "I do not want to engage myself in something that might collapse the day after". So, either close it now before it starts to grow rather than closing it a few weeks/months after, thus limiting the potential damage. Or either keep it up for more time if you think it is going to work.
Well, that's how I would think about it, and I know it is not always easy.
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[mod]Split. Let me know if you need a hand changing the title or anything.[/mod]
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Thank you Silver.
WTR is still a "go," I decided that RP would work well with keeping it around and I've been working on recruiting ads and eventually opening WTR up. I've had a few people voice interest in joining and apparently Malcolm maintains a bit more face than I suspected he held, so that's encouraging. :D
But yeah, WTR is still a go and I'm looking forward to seeing it grow even if it's slowly. I will always favor quality over quantity.
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You could bring WTR into the alliance. Both entities are patriotic in alignment they just (to me) seem to have different views on how to do things so no matter who wins recruits corp wise the whole is strengthened and you can have some internal struggles/debates about how to do things etc to boot.
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And even if you don't join the alliance, you can organize joined ops and fly together, thus reducing the limitation effects that recruitment of the same sub-set has. So go for it, you can always join Duty later on!
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You could bring WTR into the alliance. Both entities are patriotic in alignment they just (to me) seem to have different views on how to do things so no matter who wins recruits corp wise the whole is strengthened and you can have some internal struggles/debates about how to do things etc to boot.
Pyre Falcon is a Kaalakiota Loyalist organization and it was intended as a vehicle to explore the particular culture, philosophy and operational ethos of Kaalakiota as a whole. There remains, even sans Heth, noticeable if subtle differences between how Kaalakiota generally operates from Wiyrkomi -- in short, you don't get to be top dog in the State as KK without a willingness to play corporate realpolitik better than all your rivals.
The reason why Oiritsuu and Heth, I think, would have been backed to some degree by their peers in Kaalakiota is because they promised what the majority of KK citizens want -- strength and power -- in their own ways. It's not particularly for its own sake, but rather because of history and tradition behind the company: Kaalakiota is the biggest, the best, the most powerful, the holders of the legacy of Sobaseki, the true bearers of the Caldari vision, the guardians of the State. It's a combination of nationalism, patriotism, corporate pride, ruthlessness, pragmatism and cynicism that drives Kaalakiota in my mind perhaps with Heth indicative more of the former and Oiritsuu more of the latter.
What this means for Pyre Falcon is that if a plan can be framed in a patriotic context of, "Serving the interests of Kaalakiota Corporation and the Caldari State," then the question of, "How do we proceed with the plan?" Will be responded with: By whatever means necessary.
How I've viewed Wiyrkomi doing business tends to be far less ambitious perhaps, centered on more conservative and cautious business practices and the latent but strong cultural elements of being what continues to be traditional Caldari family owned enterprise - and everything that goes with that.
Besides the point of course that I think from an RP perspective, it's far more interesting to see the creation of identities along, "Kaalakiota Patriot," "Wiyrkomi Patriot," and, "Lai Dai Patriot" which leads to more attention being paid to the different culture, history and outlook of each Mega itself than just a homogenization as, "Patriots".
In this, I think the WTR is a good thing, because it has the potential to explore what it means to be loyal to Wiyrkomi first and foremost. Besides it's not like we're not going to be in the same neighbourhood if you want to fly together and shoot Feds, or just RP with the people in Pyre Falcon.
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Way to go Gesakaarin, you summed up rather adequately precisely why I didn't want Malcolm to join Pyre Falcon. I try to show Wiyrkomi through Malcolm: cautious, calculated and specialized with patriotism and national pride sprinkled in.
It's why I've chosen to keep Malcolm tied to Wiyrkomi clearly and tried to be a slightly different "patriot" than most other patriots, I'm not sure if it's working but I certainly hope it is.
I already fly with and RP with the Pyre Falcon guys pretty regularly so it's not like I'm missing out. :)
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I wonder what the relationship between Hyasyoda and Wiyrkomi is like, since they are the two most 'traditional' Megas, and also both run by mostly single families (even if they are in different 'blocs', but I feel like Patriot/Liberal/Practical might be given more weight than it should be when determining inter-corporate relationships.)
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From everything I've seen, Hyasyoda and Wiyrkomi likely have a pretty solid working relationship. They're very similar corporations in the way they are set up and run, the primary difference between them being foreign policy (Patriot vs Liberal) and perhaps some minor disagreement over internal policies which would be worked out through the CEP (ideally).
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There is a big difference in size and power between Hyasyoda and Wiyrkomi, iirc ?
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The Caldari have way too much bloc diversity for our small numbers. We always had this problem. Everybody wants to be the CEO of his five man corp and nobody wants to unite into a real powerhouse.
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I tend to agree on that point Hamish. Personally I think there's all the potential to develop all the megacorporations RP wise - we just lack the players to willfully sign up with that.
Needless to say I'd prefer to try and get at least all the patriots into one camp, but I can not force people to do that. Rumours about Jackboot-allowances having been cut short are greatly exaggerated, however. 8)
However, I wish Malcolm best of luck with building his own thing - we'll spend the time flying alongside most of the time anyways, I think.
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Regarding the RPs, Des ist still a Wiyrkomi citizen and that will never change ( I know, never say never ). I can mirror Gesakaarin's POV that developing the nuances of the patriot varieities will be interesting to see but as stated above I doubt the capability of the community to provide the necessary numbers, especially if going only for roleplayers. I'd like to point out that [DUTY] is a State PMC and neither a military unit nor chained strictly to a singular megacorporation. Current contracts in this department are with Kaalakiota, but the funding is from technically independant capsuleers, as opposed to WHG (or what we claimed in RP, at least ;))'s strong ties with Wiyrkomi Corporation. While [DUTY] would never sell out against the State it's going to stay a PMC in its core.
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I'm an outsider in this discussion so I may have a few details incorrect. Feel free to correct me if I say something incorrect.
To me it seems that maybe joining into an alliance would be better. Teaming up with Pyre seems like it could be a good thing. A Patriot-bloc alliance would be awesome. You both are already flying and RPing together. And keeping the corporations separate lets WTR keep their Wiyrkomi flavor and Pyre can keep their Kaalakiota. This gives you a lot of the benefits of merging while keeping a bit of your RP separate.
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+1 to sticking with WTR and joining onto an alliance. I hear I-RED is cool.
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I hear I-RED is Ishukone and therefore not an appropriate place for a Wiyrkomi Corp...
*fades back into shadows as one of the Lai Dai corps CEOs*
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Maybe creating a neutral alliance RP wise "The Sons of the Winds" or something like that can allow you to coordinate and, at the same time, remain different RP-wise.
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Maybe creating a neutral alliance RP wise "The Sons of the Winds" or something like that can allow you to coordinate and, at the same time, remain different RP-wise.
That would be cool. A united Caldari front in the warzone (going on the assumption that Mal's corp is in FW) would be really cool. I gotta agree with what Hamish says. Everyone wants to do their won thing instead of getting together a united front for the good of the Caldari. It would be pretty cool to see that and I'd imagine with all the different people and personalities it would be pretty great RP as well. Before it crashes and burns because of all the different people and personalities :ugh:
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I think now is the time to point out that if you look at the current structure of the Pyre Falcon Defence Combine it was never intended to, currently is not, nor will it ever follow the current Alliance structure paradigm of, "Let's just grab whatever corps we can into this."
DUTY operates with a single Executive leadership that controls its subsidiary Cadres through total share ownership. The Executor corp (currently myself and Des) sets the agenda of the alliance and dictates its goals with Cadre CEO's and Directors (Commander and Operative). There is only one vision, one purpose, behind the Combine. The intent is not to deliver divisive RP, because the focus is to ensure a well-led, well-organized and cohesive unit able to realize the goal of its State PMC focus by being good at its job of shooting the enemies of the State in space.
That isn't going to change, because the entire purpose of the organization behind DUTY is to eliminate extraneous bullshit by making it clear where the lines of authority exist and that there is only one identity to adhere to. Pyre Falcon Defence Combine was never founded with the intent of being the only patriot organization, but rather a patriot organization with its own separate and distinct identity that it dictates and controls itself.
In short, no I'm not really much a fan of causing RP drama if it doesn't deliver something substantial, nor am I willing to compromise fundamental aspects of the structure and vision behind Pyre Falcon for it. The only corporations that will exist in DUTY are its Executor and the subsidiary Cadres it directly controls because that's how the alliance is set up to provide the organization and leadership to get killmails and is a non-negotiable aspect of its RP identity.
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Having a set vision and sticking to it is good, Gesa. I wasn't actually planning on this becoming a "let's reshape DUTY" thread, so I apologize for that.
WTR has no intention of joining DUTY.
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Ultimately, the only organizational structure that counts for realsies is known as the "Fleet."
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Having a set vision and sticking to it is good, Gesa. I wasn't actually planning on this becoming a "let's reshape DUTY" thread, so I apologize for that.
Not at all :)
Just given some comments in this thread, I thought I'd clear up some perceived misconceptions.
That aside, I think the topic should focus on WTR, so my own apology for any potential derail here.
I think the future looks interesting and promising for Caldari Patriot RP with WTR also in the mix though. Should be fun.
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Technically an alliance is only necessary for simple sharing of standings and relations or everything Sov-related.
That means: There's no reason to not just go ahead and cooperate on a patriot bloc-level without being in the same corporation/alliance.
This makes it also easier for any groups not overly interested in joining up in FW, for example certain patriot Lai Dai corporations. ( You know you want to open up your Black Rise branch again ) :D