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[Katrina Oniseki]

So after a nasty little incident in a certain channel, I realized it might be good to explain why it upset me that a player invented some randomly generated statistic about the failures of a Tube Child program. This post isn't about that. this post is about the time I've spent working with the Tube Child PF and to show you what I've come up with to add and interpret. Hopefully this will help others appreciate the fact that others who play the role regularly do care what's said about the ancestry.

Let's begin with the current PF:

Tube Child

"Acutely aware of the small population of the Caldari State versus the sprawling Gallente Federation a generation ago, the Deteis once utilized artificial procreation to increase their population. While this program is no longer sponsored by the State, the Tube Children of today were raised in inhospitable, government-run orphanages. Many are fiercely independent, strong individuals loyal to the Caldari State."

Tube Children are a Deteis ancestry, and Pf clearly states that it was originally designed to help grow the population unnaturally. After some time, the State stopped sponsoring the program. The orphanages of the day were inhospitable and government run. Yet despite these issues, the results are often fiercely independent and strong individuals.

Player Created Fiction Time!

When the State stopped sponsoring the program (presumably this use of the word 'State' refers to CEP or related central organizations), who's to say those Megacorps that actually benefited and had good experiences with the program did not continue to sponsor their own similar programs? I see no reason why a specific corporation wouldn't decide to continue using it if they liked it before. The Tube Child program ceased to be something funded and run by the entire State as whole, and began to be something smaller and more varied among many Megacorporations.

So now we'd have multiple likely different programs being used by some (maybe not all) Megacorps to create new Tube Children. These different programs can be handled in various ways. Not all Tube Children are grown in the EVE version of a bacta tank. So let's look at the different ways they could be created:

• Genetic material is gathered and used to create a fetus from scratch.
• Genetic material is gathered from various sources, artificial fertilization of modified eggs takes place in a tube, the fetus is grown in a tank.
• Genetic material is gathered from sources and used to modify an egg and sperm before implantation in a surrogate mother
• Genetic engineering is used to modify a naturally conceived baby within the womb
• Genetic engineering and extreme training is used to modify a child after birth.

There's all sorts of other unlisted ways to create a not-very-natural kid. The first option conjures up images of horrific  genetic failures and experimentation. Dark cloistered rooms with glowing bubbling tanks of fluid and half grown fetuses, zygotes, and tumor ridden failures. The products of these are probably the most horrific examples, and would likely populate Federation propaganda holos for entertainment.

The second option is likely by far the most common, giving name to the "Tube Child" program. They are conceived using harvested and modified eggs and sperm in tubes and grown in bigger tubes. Unlike the first option, they fare much better than 'made from scratch' attempts. This is also likely the choice the original program used, as it is more fitting for 'mass production' of children.

The third option uses an adult female to carry an implanted fetus to term. These programs are likely more risky and more expensive, possibly rooted in traditionalist belief that having a true mother would assist in the development of a child's psyche. This is something not many people conjure up when they think of the Tube Child program, as the presence of a mother figure in any way seems to be antithesis to the whole concept. Despite this, the surrogate mother is likely not present after the 'birth', and takes no part in the child's life. The child 'stock' from this option is also significantly smaller than Option 2, preventing it's reasonable use in re-population. It is however likely used for very specific training programs to create 'the ideal worker'.

Options four and five are, like 1, morally questionable. Unlike option 1, these two are not used to create mass numbers of workers, but to create the ideal worker. I can't imagine they are very popular or practical.

I wouldn't say that anyone but options 2 and 3 would be popular, effective, and/or anything less than classified. There is very little reason a Megacorp would make the existence of those programs public knowledge, but once you start down the path of creating humans in a lab... it's a slippery slope. There's bound to be some nasty programs out there.

Upbringing

The upbringing of a Tube Child can vary just as much as it's conception. Some Megacorps might set up foster care in specific cases, but I've imagined that most would simply run training camps. The word orphanage is a misnomer I prefer not to use, because it implies the children were abandoned by their parents or somehow lost their parents. Most Tube Children never had parents to speak of, and were created with the expectation not to. They aren't orphans.

Considering the cost that goes into creating the children, these training camps are likely very thorough and very brutal. These children are raised to high expectations or discarded if they fail. They are referred to as assets of the corp, not people with rights. Not yet at least. Despite this lack of compassion or freedom, these children are also exposed to some of the best training the Megacorp has to offer.

Those sorted into military roles are trained from childhood to fit the role, for example. These children, while afforded few liberties and room for error.. are trained to be the ultimate members of Caldari society.Of course, some facilities may be mismanaged, but most would be significant asset production centers of the sponsoring organization and treated to the appropriate levels of management respect.

Early childhood would likely be basic education and sorting to find each child's strength and weaknesses. Most eugenics elimination would occur at this stage if the facility does that. By the time the children reach the prepubescent stage, most genetic tampering and role sorting would be complete, and the children are pushed into specific training programs. Capsule candidates would have already been identified by this time. Those children who graduate their respective programs would likely have a green light and free ticket into one of the big three academies for further training.

The now adult tube-children who fail at this point would likely not be killed, but rather abandoned. They have no family, and no means of support after failing their corporation. This is perhaps the harshest example of State brutality to those who cannot cut it. There is literally no support for these people. Those who succeed likely find immediate work in a position long since reserved for them somewhere in the corporation or its subsidiaries.

---

What Tube Children ARE:

Tube Children are Deteis artificially created in the Caldari State.
Tube Children are always Deteis.
Tube Children are assets of the corporation that created them until they find employment -and thus, citizenship.
Tube Children are raised in grueling training and indoctrination camps from birth until 'graduation'.
Tube Children are almost always fiercely independent and loyal, a product of the extremely competitive environment.

What Tube Child are NOT:

Tube Children are NOT clones.
Tube Children are NOT always created in a tube, nor always grown in a tank.
Tube Children are NOT typically emotionally, socially, mentally, or physically impaired. Those who are, are considered failures or rejects.
Tube Children are NOT always accepted in Caldari society. There are many who reject the idea of a Caldari without a natural family.
Tube Children are NOT a thing of the past. Megacorps could very reasonably still sponsor their own programs.

How do Tube Children feel?

Like soft silky butter.

Seriously though, Tube Children likely feel very comfortable in their careers. Just because the Caldari force them into the position doesn't mean they are unhappy with it. Many Tube Children (like slaves) never knew anything but their intended role in life. They have no reason to want anything but where they are. It is only on exposure to the greater public that they begin to encounter problems fitting in.

Like all Caldari, Tube Children are crystal clear about what happens if they cause problems or make waves. While not all Tube Children enjoy their job, an overwhelming majority do it anyways and do it well. Social circles present the biggest issue to Tube Children when they are unable to use their merit and professional to advance, instead stymied by their lack of 'natural family'... something the deeply spiritual Caldari won't always look kindly on.

That said, Tube Children likely excel at their jobs far more frequently than natural born. For all the training and support given by their sponsors, they have had far longer to prepare and improve on their profession. This would be extremely difficult to overlook for any Tube Child employed in an actually meritocratic company. The more the company focuses on skill over nepotism, the more likely the Tube Child will advance far quicker than natural peers. This of course only worsens the social issues.

Capsuleer Tube Children are not just subject to the odd social upbringing they experienced, but also the stark culture shock of suddenly being exposed to the wider cluster. This explains why Tube Child capsuleers are often very different from one another, and very strange even to other Caldari.

---

In short, Tube Children should not be passed off as little more than a re-population experiment. They aren't a failed program, and they aren't something terrible. They are a necessary evil of the State, and more often than not... they weren't so bad.

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

Have all my likes.  All of them.

Edit:  We actually have similar ideas for how The Foundations function, and Nation in general (although we DO try to minimize how much we say Nation does something because we are very familiar with CCP suddenly up and changing something).  Its a very cool concept, with a slight tinge of horror and a slight bit of "Maybe this is better", as I tend to like my sci-fi.

[Malcolm Khross]

This is a fantastic write-up and basically what I had pictured anyway (with a litlte bit more fleshing out and embellishment, props to you for that). I really like that idea and how it's protrayed and I think anyone that tries to create fictional statistics about it should simply be called out in-character for doing exaclty that - making up statistics.

Obviously it's not as simple as that...but yeah, there's only so much you can do, and this is a really good step in the right direction.

/hug!

[Seriphyn]

Nice writeup.

Are we sure they are only Deteis, considering Civire/Deteis are mostly the same?

[Makkal]

Great write-up. It's mostly as I'd imagined it, though I'd never sat down and thought about the various methods one might make a child. Question: Do you think this program would mostly make all the children 'the same' in possible aptitude, and let social competition sort it out, or is it possible that some small percentage, say 10%, get 'the best' genes because the corporation knows it will have average positions and some highly demanding positions?

Could different creches have different genetic emphasis? One is more interesting in building soldiers and so selects for traits like aggression, strength, and endurance, while another is more interested in building scientists, and so tries to focus on intelligence?

"Tube Children are NOT typically emotionally, socially, mentally, or physically impaired. Those who are, are considered failures or rejects."

I don't know what you mean by emotionally and socially impaired, but I'll suggest that they may be impaired when acting with non-Caldari.

[Ken]

I like this! Here is relevant link: http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=968734

[Katrina Oniseki]

Great write-up. It's mostly as I'd imagined it, though I'd never sat down and thought about the various methods one might make a child. Question: Do you think this program would mostly make all the children 'the same' in possible aptitude, and let social competition sort it out, or is it possible that some small percentage, say 10%, get 'the best' genes because the corporation knows it will have average positions and some highly demanding positions?

Could different creches have different genetic emphasis? One is more interesting in building soldiers and so selects for traits like aggression, strength, and endurance, while another is more interested in building scientists, and so tries to focus on intelligence?

Those are all great and very possible ideas. I would suspect the later and more recent programs that focus on role-filling would do stuff like this. Those who concentrate on raw population building probably are less careful with gene selection and concentrate more on variation while simply trying to make as many children safely possible.

Keep in mind that flooding a population with identical copies of the same [genes/DNA/chromosomes] (not sure of the proper wording) is bad. Interbreeding between those of the exact same or too similar genes would likely bring up issues down the line. This is reminiscent of the dangers of incest. It makes sense that the scientists in charge would understand this risk, and introduce appropriate genetic variation in the program to ensure that the re-population is safe in the long run.

Because of this variation, the children would likely not be the same in aptitude. There are bound to be significant differences in aptitude, enough for that 10% to naturally manifest itself. The repopulation centers would not be focusing on filling certain roles. However, those centers that instead focus on smaller numbers and specific role training would probably save certain gene combinations for those career tracks that require it.

"Tube Children are NOT typically emotionally, socially, mentally, or physically impaired. Those who are, are considered failures or rejects."

I don't know what you mean by emotionally and socially impaired, but I'll suggest that they may be impaired when acting with non-Caldari.

Emotionally impaired meaning adults with emotional problems like anger issues, or depression, attachment/abandonment issues, etc. What I mean is that Tube Children don't come out of these places as emotional train wrecks. If they are having serious problems like that, they probably won't be doing well professionally and will not qualify for employment. Failure to find employment means the program is itself a failure. why bother making more workers if few of them are fit to work?

Socially impaired referred to much more serious issues related to emotional or mental deficiencies. Everyone natural born and tube born has issues fitting in eventually, unless you're the golden poster boy/girl. Even then, you're likely to have your social problems. What I meant to express is that these Tube Children don't have such serious problems that they literally cannot make any friends. Just like the paragraph above, these children need to be bred for employment, and an inability to properly socialize would make that VERY difficult. Tube Children are however a bit less well adjusted than natural born people, who spent most of their childhood socializing instead of training.

Let's use a terrible cross-fiction example like Master Chief from Halo. According to that lore, he spent most of his childhood in a brutal training camp. Is he a bit odd and less well adjusted for socialization? Yes. He doesn't talk much, and he's very very serious. Is he disabled by it? Hell no. He says what he needs to say perfectly, and doesn't waste time on pleasantries.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Nice writeup.

Are we sure they are only Deteis, considering Civire/Deteis are mostly the same?

Until PF states the Civire participate in this, I am hesitant to ever say they do. As something part of the Deteis ancestry choices, I'm going to leave it as something strictly Deteis. Perhaps there might be a social taboo among Civire against it. Perhaps they feel kids made with science instead of bumping uglies are weaker or less worthy. Maybe the natural aggression of the Civire translates to a preference for 'natural selection', a sort of sexual Darwinism. Survival and procreation of the fittest, none of that 'pick what you want in a tube' nonsense.

That said, there's no real reason a True Amarr can't be trained as a Cyber Knight, or an Intaki can't be a Political Activist, just like there's no reason a Civire can't be created the same way. But is it something common enough to include the Civire explicitly in this?.. I don't think so. I think it would be a remarkable anomaly among the Civire to be a Civire Tube Child. I think it's something fairly constrained to the Deteis and their strange ways.

TL;DR: No, the process can be done with any race or bloodline; but it's probably very very rare for anybody not Deteis to be a Tube Child.

EDIT: The Civire would then likely be some of the most vocal detractors of the whole program, perhaps calling it anything from "creating weak Caldari" to "an insult to the Winds and Ancestors"

[Ember Vykos]

Gonna echo everyone's statements and say this is a very good write up. 100% what I had in mind when I flirted with the idea of doing my own tube child. It's also really close to what I had Simca going through in her childhood since her parents were both deployed the majority of the time along with some of the other children born into Mordu's Legion. I might try writing something up about that just to flesh her out a bit more and also give people something to read.

[Ember Vykos]

Nice writeup.

Are we sure they are only Deteis, considering Civire/Deteis are mostly the same?

Until PF states the Civire participate in this, I am hesitant to ever say they do. As something part of the Deteis ancestry choices, I'm going to leave it as something strictly Deteis. Perhaps there might be a social taboo among Civire against it. Perhaps they feel kids made with science instead of bumping uglies are weaker or less worthy. Maybe the natural aggression of the Civire translates to a preference for 'natural selection', a sort of sexual Darwinism. Survival and procreation of the fittest, none of that 'pick what you want in a tube' nonsense.

That said, there's no real reason a True Amarr can't be trained as a Cyber Knight, or an Intaki can't be a Political Activist, just like there's no reason a Civire can't be created the same way. But is it something common enough to include the Civire explicitly in this?.. I don't think so. I think it would be a remarkable anomaly among the Civire to be a Civire Tube Child. I think it's something fairly constrained to the Deteis and their strange ways.

TL;DR: No, the process can be done with any race or bloodline; but it's probably very very rare for anybody not Deteis to be a Tube Child.

I would agree, but I wouldn't say a Civire couldn't be born our of the tube child program. It could be used for a couple where one of the parents cant reproduce naturally for some reason maybe. I agree that it's unlikely Civire would use this instead of 'bumping uglies' but there is room for special circumstances.

[Syylara/Yaansu]

I don't know what you mean by emotionally and socially impaired, but I'll suggest that they may be impaired when acting with non-Caldari.

I think it was referring to social impairment like Asperger Syndrome.

If you meant because of a prejudicial tendency in others towards tube children, that's a social impairment on the part of those holding that position (xenophobia/intolerance), not the tube children themselves.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I don't know what you mean by emotionally and socially impaired, but I'll suggest that they may be impaired when acting with non-Caldari.

I think it was referring to social impairment like Asperger Syndrome.

If you meant because of a prejudicial tendency in others towards tube children, that's a social impairment on the part of those holding that position (xenophobia/intolerance), not the tube children themselves.

Yes. This. I meant a social impairment, disorder, or disability on the part of the Tube Child. Social challenges against Tube Children, like the aforementioned intolerance, are however quite common

[Silver Night]

I've got a couple of characters (including Silver) who are products of the Tube Child program, and it is an important part of their backstory. My concept of it is that it was probably always largely split among the megacorps. It might have been coordinated through the CEP at some point, but I always imagined that, for example, there were Ishukone creches and NOH creches and so-on.

I also think that the quality of the creches probably varied pretty widely - along with everything else (quality of care, program goals, etc.) I'm sure they had creches that were models and flagships that were wonderful (or at least had consistently high quality) to grow up in - if nothing else, they would want a place for executives to have the occasional photo-op with smiling corporate-reared children. Similarly I'm sure they have some that are hellholes where program rejects end up auctioned off the pirates. I suspect most fell (or fall) in between those extremes.

I don't think there is likely to be much genetic manipulation involved, because that (along with purposefully messing about with AIs) seems to be one of the taboos that even the Megas don't lightly cross (since screwing around with genetics is thought by many to be the ultimate cause for the downfall of the Jovian empire.) Of course, that doesn't mean they wouldn't select parents with advantageous traits.

I would be pretty surprised if Civire weren't also sometimes tube-kids. It seems like it would be a pretty arbitrary line to draw, having Deteis but not Civire tubeys.

Also, on the subject of using it instead of 'bumping uglies' - there are many situations where a pregnancy isn't ideal. Let's say you are a female Caldari officer, and you want kids, but you also want to be able to work aboard a warship. Having your kid grown in tube would probably be pretty ideal - whether they are initially conceived the 'traditional' way or not. Particularly in a society which seems like there might be a lot of pressure to do your part to keep up the population, being able to grow kids without having a whole pregnancy to go through seems like it'd be a pretty big equalizer.

[Gottii]

Great stuff Kat.  Seriously, very well done.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I've got a couple of characters (including Silver) who are products of the Tube Child program, and it is an important part of their backstory. My concept of it is that it was probably always largely split among the megacorps. It might have been coordinated through the CEP at some point, but I always imagined that, for example, there were Ishukone creches and NOH creches and so-on.

Yes, very true. This is only a minor difference from what I had suggested. I think they might both work, actually. At the very very beginning, the facilities were likely all the same, all built off a single 'plan' that was agreed upon by the CEP. Over time, they were likely modified and began to be a bit different among the various megacorps. When the CEP sponsoring stopped, many closed and many stayed open. Those that stayed open likely were further modified.

I also think that the quality of the creches probably varied pretty widely - along with everything else (quality of care, program goals, etc.) I'm sure they had creches that were models and flagships that were wonderful (or at least had consistently high quality) to grow up in - if nothing else, they would want a place for executives to have the occasional photo-op with smiling corporate-reared children. Similarly I'm sure they have some that are hellholes where program rejects end up auctioned off the pirates. I suspect most fell (or fall) in between those extremes.

I don't think there is likely to be much genetic manipulation involved, because that (along with purposefully messing about with AIs) seems to be one of the taboos that even the Megas don't lightly cross (since screwing around with genetics is thought by many to be the ultimate cause for the downfall of the Jovian empire.) Of course, that doesn't mean they wouldn't select parents with advantageous traits.

True on the genetic manipulation part. I guess that's a poor term to use on my part, as I think of all sorts of things besides screwing with the genes. What I mean is basically selecting what you want and excluding what you don't. Not necessarily genetic engineering, but more... genetic selection.

I would be pretty surprised if Civire weren't also sometimes tube-kids. It seems like it would be a pretty arbitrary line to draw, having Deteis but not Civire tubeys.

Also, on the subject of using it instead of 'bumping uglies' - there are many situations where a pregnancy isn't ideal. Let's say you are a female Caldari officer, and you want kids, but you also want to be able to work aboard a warship. Having your kid grown in tube would probably be pretty ideal - whether they are initially conceived the 'traditional' way or not. Particularly in a society which seems like there might be a lot of pressure to do your part to keep up the population, being able to grow kids without having a whole pregnancy to go through seems like it'd be a pretty big equalizer.

I see the logic in that, but until PF states the Civire took part in it, I'm still hesitant to say it was a regular or normal thing for a non Deteis to take part on it. I wouldn't mind if players say they are a Civire Tube Child (who also happens to be Merc/Dissenter/Entrepreneur ancestry), but I would by default treat it as something unusual.