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[Kazzzi]

And if U'K/D'K is all there is... well... the point is kind of made, isn't it?

Not really. Not all of our members RP, but I can't really think of any group with a more hardline stance on slavery than us.

We actually still have quite a few hardline immersive RPers. Ugleb, zoolkhan, Hadderach, Poreuomai, Wotlankor, Sebatian Starstrider, Yasca and Becq just to name a few. Sorry if we don't hang out much in RP bars and such. 

Would be nice for some sort of new 'coalition of unity' between anti-slavery groups, as long as we aren't alienated by condescension. Indeed a similar coalition years ago led to the founding of U'K and we currently actively seek out and try to set mutual blue with anti slaver groups.

[Mizhara]

My apologies for the apparent misunderstanding here. It wasn't meant as condescending or looking down on it. Let me clarify here. Ushra'Khan was kind of what I aspired to back when I first started this game and found the RP community. It sounded quite awesome. Of course, since I came late to the party, U'K was already far beyond the reaches of the nublet I was at the time.

But it's still a drop in the sea, compared to the other side, isn't it? I did not mean to come across as condescending there, and I hope you believe me. On the other hand, I don't think U'K/D'K is what I seek either, as most of what I hear involves U'K softening up to the point of taking in half the Provibloc when that fell, and basically making what is gameplay-wise good decisions but seemed to be quite... well, leaving behind some principles while doing so.

This may have changed in Damu'Khonde... but from the rumblings I keep hearing from the odd D'K member, RP happens on the sidelines, if at all in D'K.

Are there still corps there that make decisions based on an IC/RP stance first and is willing to face that handicap of not being able to do this or that simply because it'd be betraying the principles in question? In other words... hardliners?

[Borza]

Yep, KHAI, SARZ, and when/if they reform properly, NKB off the top of my head are fairly hardline. Most other corps also have RPers (I think a few of the newer ones have about zero) but probably at a lower 'concentration' and not controlling corp leadership to the same extent. The thing is different corps have different recruiting standards as to player's personality, character skills and involvement in RP. For example in RP terms some of the corps simply demand IC talk in local or shut up and follow alliance policies which may be RP-based even if you don't like them, others require more.
We didn't take in many Provibloc refugees at all, but there have been some other tensions within the alliance to do with RP and its place to be sure which I shan't go into in public.

[Mizhara]

Of course, the inner workings are internal. Not expecting that to be aired in public.

So here's the question then:

Is there interest for more hardliner RP? Something more cohesive that could conceivably be considered a community? Interacting with other hardliners? Hell, at some point perhaps even reaching the kind of level the Amarr operate on?

[Ember Vykos]

I've been considering rolling a matari anti-slavery hardliner. My idea was to float around in militia for a bit to learn the lay of the land(since the last time I went anywhere near Minmatar space was about a year ago), and then either stay in or leave but become a terrorits of sorts and go after soft targets behind enemy lines(miners and missionrunners mostly). I would probably still take the character into bars for the occasional drink. I doubt I would play all nice nice with any slavers there, but I wouldnt get in their faces either. At best I would treat them with disdain and in a worst case scenario I would yell at them a bit maybe threaten them and leave it at that if they pressed the issue(privided I know or find out IC that they are slavers of some sort pr support it). If i found a corp of like minded peoples I envision small to medium fast moving gangs just reaking havoc in slaver space killing everything we could.

[Kazzzi]

Is there interest for more hardliner RP? Something more cohesive that could conceivably be considered a community? Interacting with other hardliners? Hell, at some point perhaps even reaching the kind of level the Amarr operate on?

Yes there is interest in this, but there is a big difference between Imperialists and abolitionists that might make it difficult. Amarr loyalists are all unified by the Empress, Anti slavers are all a mixed bag often with opposing politics and little to unify them except a common foe.

I believe much has been blown out of proportion with D'K. We actually rejected a ton of applications from former Provi dwellers. I know cause I personally told many of them to piss off . We're a new alliance with all new leadership. Our new executor is an RPer and has actually just started a new formal RP campaign to help get us back to our roots, and like I said, we still have many hardliners, who I'm sure might be interested in your idea Mizhara.

What would you have in mind to bring everyone together?

[Mizhara]

Well, for starters some common stomping grounds, communication wise. Something to form a few tighter bonds In Character and Out of Character. The following are just ideas, I do not have the resources nor skills needed to actually realize any of the following:

* Some IC and OOC forum for Anti-slavery/Matari debates, talks, planning and events and so on. Or just IC and use Backstage for the OoC stuff. Make it a more public thing than it is right now, hidden in various internal chats and corp/alliance forums. Stir interest, get debates, get ideas and balls rolling.

* An RP bar. (Yes, I can hear you groaning, but some people like them. I'm sure there's hardliners that enjoy it as well.) Name it... the Khumaak or something like that. Somewhere that hardliners when it comes to anti-slavery can RP and enjoy themselves and know they won't have to keep RPing as hostile or have to ignore half the channel list for being slavers or slavery supporters. Make it as inclusive as it can be, by making it VR or something like La Maison used to be, letting people who are immersionists that never leave the pod still join in.

* A discussion/debate channel similar to the Summit or similar venues, for these people. Not needing to dodge/face Sansha/Blood Raider/Empire Loyalists/Slavers at every turn and letting debates either turn hostile or just be the same old tit for tat that never goes anywhere. Discussing which lines can't be crossed, who is doing what, getting your own organization or people promoted and so on.

I am not proposing a new corp, or new alliance. There's already too much fragmentation going on, and starting even more from scratch at this point is almost entirely pointless without even having some kind of cohesion or common interest to begin with.

[Dame Death]

there is a bar that has some hardcore anti slavers in it poke me when im on dme or ja'li and remind me to tell u the name as drunk and cba to log back on

[Ember Vykos]

Using Backstage for the OOC stuff sounds like a good idea. Having an IC forum or even forum space set up on a different forum or even maybe putting in an IC section to this one would be super cool.

A harliner/matari loyalis bar would be good as well. I say /matari loyalists cause it would be good not to exclude them and just make it exclusive to the hardliners. For starters you might be able to get some of the "fence sitters"to join the cause, and it couldnt hurt to strenghten ties either.

A discussion/debate channel would be good to get everyone on the same page and strenghten ties in the community. I would also suggest having public debates or presentations in the New Eden Assembly or maybe even try to get the hardliners a seat on the council. It would be good for publicity and also might sway a few people to the cause.

I dont see a huge problem with making a new corp or having new corps spawn from this idea. I dont really keep up with the latest alliance news, but iirc D'K is mainly a 0.0 corp(correct me if im wrong on that) which isnt for everyone.

[Kazzzi]

Just a word of warning that I can't stress enough, there is a great deal of political differences between abolitionists. Often all abolitionists are lumped together as Minmatar Republic loyalists, but the fact is that many of us despise the Republic. Also some of us value the freedom of Minmatar slaves over those of other races. There will be many disagreements on methods, priorities and levels of violence. Getting all of us into a group may very well be a powder keg waiting to happen. 

[Mizhara]

Just a word of warning that I can't stress enough, there is a great deal of political differences between abolitionists. Often all abolitionists are lumped together as Minmatar Republic loyalists, but the fact is that many of us despise the Republic. Also some of us value the freedom of Minmatar slaves over those of other races. There will be many disagreements on methods, priorities and levels of violence. Getting all of us into a group may very well be a powder keg waiting to happen. 

And places like the Summit and so on aren't? Bars filled with slavers and anti-slavers alike? Hell yes there'd be differences in opinions, priorities and so on, but if there wasn't it'd be ridiculously dull.

[orange]

even the Caldari are Empire supporters, even if they personally outlaw slavery in the State.

The Caldari like to have trading partners.  They generally don't care what the trading partner does in the trading partner's space.

[Ember Vykos]

Just a word of warning that I can't stress enough, there is a great deal of political differences between abolitionists. Often all abolitionists are lumped together as Minmatar Republic loyalists, but the fact is that many of us despise the Republic. Also some of us value the freedom of Minmatar slaves over those of other races. There will be many disagreements on methods, priorities and levels of violence. Getting all of us into a group may very well be a powder keg waiting to happen. 

As Miz already stated, if there werent differences it would be kinda dull. What I'm saying is that even the most hardcore of hardcore abolitionists would be open to at least working with the others if it serves their own agenda as well. The character Im thining up atm is mostly gonna be concerned with Matari slaves than other races, but at the same time if she helps to free other races from slavery as well its still hurting the Amarr which makes it at least worth it in her book.

[BloodBird]

There are some things I find hillarious with some anti-slavery characters, and that is how they hold themselves to groups like the Blood Raiders or Angel Cartel. Mizh is right in the idea that being a hard-core anti-slaver you get villified by many, mostly because it seems convenient to many of the 'anti-slavery' players (who are effectively only anti-Imperial or anti-Amarrian, for the racist goodies that brings) to forget that those two factions are also very hard-liner slavers. I've seen many anti-slavery players being buddies with their friendly next-door Cartel operative because both dislike the Empire, conveniently forgetting that the Cartel is a hard-core slaver operation as well.

If your going to work on re-vitalizing hard-liner anti-slavers (and I'll wish you the best of luck in this, honestly) then your standards will have to be pretty tight. How tight is likely also to be a hot topic.

[Kazzzi]

I've seen many anti-slavery players being buddies with their friendly next-door Cartel operative because both dislike the Empire, conveniently forgetting that the Cartel is a hard-core slaver operation as well.

The Republic Security Services makes backroom deals with the Cartel all the time, it's perfectly in character  
Like I was saying about political differences. Everyone has their own motivations.