Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Saede Riordan]

So I've been looking at languages, matari languages in particular, because my character actually speaks them.

Currently, there is no fictional language made up for Matari or its many distinct groups, and there are probably several, a lot of people seem to be using various real world languages to represent the languages of these groups.

What I've seen as the most widespread/common usage is this:

Thukker/Brutor=Icelandic/Hungarian
Sebiestor/Krusal/Standard Matari=Irish Gaelic
Vherokior/Starkmanir=Welsh Gaelic

What are thoughts on this? I know some people are against using real life languages as stand ins at all. I know a Matari language project was started but it's focused on a smaller group. Do we want to start a language project for the Minmatar? Cause I'd be willing to contribute to that if we did.

[lallara zhuul]

There was a lot of african languages thrown into the mix by the U'K folk.

Interesting thing, the languages that you have listed have nothing to do with the apparent ethnicities displayed by the bloodlines.

[Seriphyn]

I'm not confident using Gaelic is representative of those chosen bloodlines. It's a language for pasty, white-skinned Britons, whereas Starkmanir have been described as "having the face of a Gallente, and the skin of a Brutor". We already have an extremely biased leaning towards Western influences in the factions, with Amarr having Latin even if there are more Arabian/Persian references (surname generator in chargen, system names etc.). It would be better to use a non-European language base altogether. Originality and all.



That is visible on some Matari objects, as I brought up on the other thread. Immediately, that indicates a non-Latin writing script, whereas Gaelic is Latin-based.

Your best bet is to open up the chargen, and use the Randomize name button to get a better reference point for any potential languages. System names is another point of reference.

[Saede Riordan]

Well, those scripts are vaguely picographic, but I can't see the Matari language as being symbol=word based like that, because languages like that are difficult to learn, and are learned by immersion largely, meaning it would be lost during the years of captivity. There has to be something though.

What it could be is something like Tengwar, which heavily uses Diacritical marks.

I rather like the symbols though, they're interesting, however they're not anything like what we have on earth, the one on the right looks vaguely like Klingon. The one on the left, tbh, looks a bit like Napaanii. We can work with that though.

As for the way it sounds I'd always imagined it to be fairly smooth and pretty sounding, but sort of rough around the edges, like Gaelic, elvish, or maybe Italian, and I know, yes, yes Seri, western influences, blah blah blah, but I'm just giving examples for the way it should sound to speak based on languages I know. If we design it right, it should be its own thing entirely.

Now, thukker and possibly Brutor, I always imagined as being very harsh and vaguely violent sounding. Russian, German, Hungarian, and maybe Icelandic come to mind as examples...oh, and Klingon. Very guttural.

A couple things that would need to be kept in mind when designing either of these languages: These languages were kept alive through 700 years of slavery and culture erasing, so they need to be easily transcribed, and they need to be phonetic. You need to be able to look at a letter and go "this is the sound that this letter makes" no caveats, no exceptions, it needs to be as simple as possible.

[Casiella]

I'll throw in the question I always ask in these situations: How do you interpret your project in light of the language translators?

[Saede Riordan]

Well, based on the chronicle, I'd interpret it like this:

you are plugged into a capsule, you aren't actually talking, you're thinking. But thoughts don't work like words, words are representations of concepts. Thoughts are those concepts. The computer reads those concepts, and directs them to the mind of the other person you're talking to. The language barrier is thus circumvented because you're communicating at a more root level then language. Beyond language.

Now, outside the pod, this is not the case. I'd posit that there is a "standard" language that capsuleers speak that communicates at some core level based on this concept sharing, that something about it imprints a base language in the character's mind, allowing them to speak to other capsuleers in this same language. This would be real world English. Now, this doesn't mean the character cannot still speak in their native tongue. That's likely to happen fairly often. Nikita mumbles it under her breath when talking, and swears in her native language most of the time.

[Casiella]

A standard language among capsuleers directly contradicts that entire article, though:

All the major races in EVE speak their own language and all attempts to make one the lingua franca have failed because of stubbornness over accepting any one language as the dominant one...

With the steady increase in cyber-implants these translators have begun appearing outside the capsule as well and many predict that within a few years translators will make the debate over which language should prevail in inter-racial communication a futile one.

[Saede Riordan]

A standard language among capsuleers directly contradicts that entire article, though:

All the major races in EVE speak their own language and all attempts to make one the lingua franca have failed because of stubbornness over accepting any one language as the dominant one...

With the steady increase in cyber-implants these translators have begun appearing outside the capsule as well and many predict that within a few years translators will make the debate over which language should prevail in inter-racial communication a futile one.

Not really, it just means that implants allow this "under language" to exist outside the capsule too.

[Casiella]

Do what you like, of course, but the PF states pretty clearly that (in a general sense) there's no core language that's developed.

That's not to say that among some small group, they might not have such a thing. But it just wouldn't be cluster-wide.

[Saede Riordan]

Do what you like, of course, but the PF states pretty clearly that (in a general sense) there's no core language that's developed.

That's not to say that among some small group, they might not have such a thing. But it just wouldn't be cluster-wide.

So you don't like my idea of mental communication beyond language being how the translators work?

[Ember Vykos]

I've always viewed the translators as like the Babel Fish from Hitchhickers or more fitting to EVE the translator nanites used in Farscape. It's something pretty much everyone has that gets rid of the need of a language like 'basic.'

Each race having their own unique language I thought about even before I got into EVE RP. Matari languages, to me, have always been very primitive, and I usually thought of them as being more of an ancient tribal dialect with a heavy dose of influence from the language of their Amarrian captors. Kinda like the Native Americans of today. They keep their own language but it has also been supplemented with English. Going on that principle I would think that the Matari languages would probably be a mix of their native tongue and Amarrian.

[Seriphyn]

Eh, fairly smooth and pretty-sounding is definitely not how I personally picture any of the Matari languages. Italian's a Romance language too, probably in the vein of Gallente (Villore is an Italian town).

Just take a look at the actual names. Heavy consonant base, words without vowels at all, like Pator IX (Syld). Perhaps the symbols on the fighter is Brutor (Brutor is the language of the Fleet?) and the symbols on the service station is Vherokior (shop owners etc.)

We know there is "seven distinct civilizations" that appeared on Matar, so they'll all have their own separate language, though thoroughly consumed by the Amarr in somae places, yeah. I just think Europe is a bad mark of reference to go with; there's only one "white" Matari bloodline out of seven. The rest are "foreigners".

@Ember

Hindi speakers tend to interject words in English that don't translate into Hindi. This is called "Hinglish". The Matari may have a very similar thing, but supplement Amarr words instead.

[Casiella]

We know there is "seven distinct civilizations" that appeared on Matar, so they'll all have their own separate language, though thoroughly consumed by the Amarr in somae places, yeah. I just think Europe is a bad mark of reference to go with; there's only one "white" Matari bloodline out of seven. The rest are "foreigners".

What? This doesn't parse, can you please restate?

Hindi speakers tend to interject words in English that don't translate into Hindi. This is called "Hinglish". The Matari may have a very similar thing, but supplement Amarr words instead.

This is far from limited to Hindi/English.

[Seriphyn]

What? This doesn't parse, can you please restate?

Well, 6 of the 7 Matari bloodlines are non-white, I was just saying that if you are going to use RL as some sort of foundation or mark of reference, then Europe would be a bad place to start.

[Saede Riordan]

What? This doesn't parse, can you please restate?

Well, 6 of the 7 Matari bloodlines are non-white, I was just saying that if you are going to use RL as some sort of foundation or mark of reference, then Europe would be a bad place to start.

Yes, however, its easier to start at all when you have a baselines. I am familiar with European languages, I know how they sound, and how they are written and spoken therefore, I will start there, because you need a baseline. You have to start somewhere.