Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: GoGo Yubari on 19 Feb 2011, 18:45
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Why are we not talking about this? I guess it's big news.
I'm desperately trying not to be cynical about the whole ambulation thing. I love the idea that we can walk around the Eve universe and the level of immersion it can bring us, but despite all CCPs assurances that it will be awesome, I'm not buying it will be anything else than a tacked on gimmick barely held together by duct tape and bubblegum.
I can actually come up with a lot of cool stuff that could be done with this vis-a-vis planetary interaction, 0.0 alliances, etc. mostly in an amazing visualized UI kind of way, but also with solid game-play repercussions. I can see it, I could sketch it out. Add a whole new playing field for alliance strategists, fleet commanders, tacticians and so on. Resource management and leadership, baby. It could be glorious and even open up a way to play the game purely from the insides of stations (turning an old joke into an established part of the system).
But everything CCP is saying of staged launches (which in itself are a great new way of pushing content out) and what's actually coming out first.. it's not much. Actually it's a pittance, even tho' I've no doubt it will look and feel awesome. But no gameplay. No meat on the stick.
I really, really want to avoid being disappointed by this, but I'm really, really skeptical. Somehow I think a lot of players are in the same situation as me. That said, the introduction of a physical avatar - whether it will answer the concerns I outlined in this post - will pull a lot of new players to come in and take a look. No doubt that's something CCP is looking forward to.
But for those players, who've previously avoided the game because of what it is, the experience of just seeing the station through their avatar won't be enough. They'll need gameplay to match their expectations and I don't see Eve as is will cut it for the majority of them.
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I'm fairly cynical myself, and prone to pessimism. So I've set my expectations low on this one.
All I'm hoping for is that when ambulation arrives - if it does in my lifetime - it will offer some neat tricks. Negotiations between wardec parties will suddenly have a more personal feel to them. Meetings with friends will be more impressive (no offense to RP channels, I don't think this will be the death of them). And, without a doubt, more important than any other factor, I'd like to be able to buy Senn some nice clothes and dress him up like my outer-space doll, and giggle to myself girlishly.
Yes, it's most likely a gimmick, and yes, CCP will probably catch a lot of flak for adding new stuff instead of fixing old stuff.
We will be on the eve of experiencing all the same problems with WoW's RP community.
You will eventually witness a text depiction of a Brutor and his lithe Gallentean lover loosing the animalistic passions that a lonely life in space brings on.
However, what I've come to love about EVE is that it's viewed through a prism, not a looking glass. The dimensions of player interaction, if you think about it, are astonishingly complex at times. This will offer just one more lens through which you can view your character, those of other players, and interact in a realistic setting while you argue terms of shipping expense, discuss politics in heated debate, or catch up with an old friend.
Furthermore, I know CCP will probably add a "go to dock" button to avoid players bitching too much, but I do have this fantasy in my head about someone receiving notification of an attack on their home system and having to book it through a station at full speed to reach their ship in time.
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I'm... quite apprehensive about Incarna/Captain's Quarters as well.
However... I'm also tentatively hoping that the return of Aura will bring an revamped tutorial with it, possibly integrating Captain's Quarters as a sort of overly flashy tutorial while the rest of Incarna is developed.
Yeah, it won't be perfect. But it'll be better than just leaving it out there with no connection to the game as it currently exists.
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I think everyone who plays this game is always cynical and cold.
CCP wins.
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Incarna has the potential to be great.
The first feature, the Captains Quarters, doesn't add anything to the game, however. Seems like a fancy interface it open up menus that already exist on the right hand side of the screen. I dont think we can judge the whole of Incarna by this first feature.
Edit: The reason we haven't been talking about it is because there isnt anything to talk about, is there?
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Keep your expectations low and take what's given at face value.
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In some ways, I'm excited about Incarna, but I'm not expecting much. Yes, it'll pull in far more noobs and probably make station camping different, but would we be able to fight within the confines of the station, or will it still be on space only?
I'm going to remain skeptical about Captain's Quarters and Incarna and take a 'wait and see' approach.
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I'm very enthusiastic about my new screensaver that I will have on the background while I chat in the channels.
There will be a toon that will do a lot of /dancing and I can make her wear all kinds of doodads.
RRrrooWWrr!
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So, recently did a little RP which would have been a bit more interesting once Incarna becomes interactive.
A fellow Caldari RP wanted to buy a Wolf, but wanted it built to Caldari standards by Caldari. So one of my characters took on the job and we had a bit of a back & forth about what LDIS had done to make it a Lai Dai Wolf and not a Boundless Creation (things like Fernite-Titanium hybrid plating and a LD non-capsuleer C2 system). The show and tell would have been more interesting standing in front of the ship in question in a hangar (and could have been done with voice I suppose).
The real trick for Incarna (in my mind) will be getting people to actually speak using Eve-Voice Channels for their location. A room limited to say 32 people (damn those station fire marshals) with spacial audio volume system (the volume of any sound is adjusted based on their distance from you) would make things very interesting, but require lots of work. Chat channels become like a clubs twitter feed (which they already kind of are)!
It seems like Captain's Quarters are good way to test out the basic interaction mechanism without having characters interact yet. The next step in my mind is to expand it to Corporate Offices, where you can go meet the NPC agent you are working for or talk to a PC corps holo/android/staff about joining.
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In true proto-bittervet fashion, my expectations of (at least the first iteration of) Incarna aren't tremendously high, but hey, new stuff is new stuff and it might be improved.
Overriding my concerns about playability, bugginess, and so on, however, is the question as to what Incarna is for. There are a lot of little things that I could see being done with it, and a few fairly neat experiences like what Senn mentioned, having to run through a station to reach your ship in time for event x, but I find myself unconvinced that it will actually serve a purpose beyond pretty graphics.
That's not to say I've taken a stance of 'eh, Incarna is a lost cause, damn those CCP folks and their evil ways'; it's more something like 'it could be cool, I suppose; there are things I'd rather see done first, but this has potential too'. We'll see what happens as time goes by, anyway.
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Give people something that is purely fun and they will still find a way to strike it down :bash: I for one think the quarters are a nice little kiddypool start into what incarna can or might be. Yes, it does not fix anything, nor does it add anything of value, but since when is it a crime to add something to your game that is purely for the fun of having it? All this internet spaceships serious business is depressing sometimes. You haters go be cold and bitter, I'll stick to my having fun. :lol:
Besides, there's just been a whole patch dedicated to fixing small annoyances, and there is always going to be a million more things that could be better, but those things take time. The team that is behind this isn't going to do much about those things because it isn't even remotely close to their area of expertise. So the whole "they could do better things with their time" sounds like such a terrible argument to me.
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Give people something that is purely fun and they will still find a way to strike it down :bash: I for one think the quarters are a nice little kiddypool start into what incarna can or might be. Yes, it does not fix anything, nor does it add anything of value, but since when is it a crime to add something to your game that is purely for the fun of having it? All this internet spaceships serious business is depressing sometimes. You haters go be cold and bitter, I'll stick to my having fun. :lol:
Besides, there's just been a whole patch dedicated to fixing small annoyances, and there is always going to be a million more things that could be better, but those things take time. The team that is behind this isn't going to do much about those things because it isn't even remotely close to their area of expertise. So the whole "they could do better things with their time" sounds like such a terrible argument to me.
Exactly this.
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I suspect most people would be cold & bitter about an industrial update... :bash:
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Well, on the plus-side, it might make for some more interesting material for Site Artwork and such :)
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I'm looking forward to it.
Before the character generator was released, I was very unenthusiastic about Ambulation / Incarna. I expected I would likely be forced to walk around as a standard computer game female - a boobmonster with scoliosis and skimpy clothes. Now I am cautiously hopeful.
There are still ways to get Incarna wrong - like wasd movement (imagine typing while walking...) or having to be on voice to talk in a room (sucks to have kids or flatmates who are light sleepers!) but CCP having avoided some pitfalls makes me hope they can avoid most of the rest too. :)
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There are still ways to get Incarna wrong - like wasd movement (imagine typing while walking...) or having to be on voice to talk in a room (sucks to have kids or flatmates who are light sleepers!) but CCP having avoided some pitfalls makes me hope they can avoid most of the rest too. :)
I assume since they redid the hotkeys we will be able to configure the ones for walking. If mouse walking is not default I will put it on that. Keyboard turning is bad. Voice I believe has been confirmed to remain optional.
All I can recommend to those with worries is to follow the information closely as it is released and be active in the feedback threads.
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Am I the only one who thinks moving an avatar with a mouse is dumb? Just use WASD and the autorun key for chatting while moving, like every other MMO since 1998.
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Ogod...VOICE RP in bars? Ogod...any majors in drama, anyone?
Also, be interesting how interaction will be. I suspect things will be done with a mouse. For example....
Right-click bar
- Lean both arms on
- Lean one hand on
Right-cleak seat
- Sit down straight
- Sit down in slouch
etc
Right-click self, set expression or posture
I mean we've seen photos of avatars just standing around leaning on railings so...
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Seems we all are thinking along the same lines of being sceptical but still looking forward to what they come up with in the long term.
The captains quarters is the obvious starting point and I'm sure most people will think "meh" after the initial "ooh thats pretty". It will be cool to play around with, but after a while it will just be a place to walk your character around in circles instead of spinning your ship round when you have nothing to do :lol: I really don't think there will be anything positivly immersive untill you can interact with each other in the stations. I for one play Eve for the social aspect and often log on and don't undock if I am pressed for time and just chat to people. Being able to do that in someones quarters or at a bar, etc would be pretty cool and most defiently add to the imersion. It seems it's STILL early days though :roll:
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I'm looking forward to this.
I can certainly daydream of a time when playing Eve outside the pod will involve entirely free form interaction supported by an endless variety of locales sitting solidly atop an infinite stream of customizable content. That's roughly what I hoped for when I was 16 and trying to get into the Eve beta.
Against that ideal, whatever CCP came out with would be a disappointment. Happily I've managed to retain the enthusiasm while gaining a thread of reality. I think the fact that CCP is investing resources in Incarna at all is pretty awesome. The ability to dock and look up at the bulk of your ship. The ability to have any kind of customizable room - being able to get out of the pod at all.
I'm content to wait and see how else they might develop it. I think the fact that they've the stated goal of making a full featured Sci-Fi world is as close to that hope of 16-year-old me as any MMO company is likely to come, and it makes me that much happier that I've backed the right horse for all these years. :D
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Until we have gameplay or at least shared social spaces, this is a big "meh" to me.
Exotic dancers count as gameplay.
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Ogod...VOICE RP in bars? Ogod...any majors in drama, anyone?
I'll get more people staring at my pixellated tits and some people would be barely understandable. Most likely get, "you're a female playing internet spaceships? I call shenanigans," from 99% of channels except those with people that realise women do play internet spaceships.
I'd love to say I'm excited about this, but I tend not to get my hopes up on new updates. Incarna will make station camping more unbearable than it already is.
Captain's Quarters will be fun to play with for a few minutes; then it'll just be another way to sit idle and be lazy, but avatar spinning instead of docking with all your big, shiney things and spinning them. Maybe you can edit your avatar's clothing in the Captain's Quarter... I can see it now, loads of scantily clad, buxom females running around with little boys drolling over the pixel breasts and thighs of their latest fap alt whilst speaking in barely understandable dribble.
Okay, I'll stop ranting.
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I'll have a very tangible use for this when it comes about. :D
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Visually and technology wise its ground breaking. I hope CCP doesn't get to carried away with it though but the Beta verision should be hitting Sisi soon here so i make my final call then.
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Captain's Quarters = Fun at first, but then forever alone ;_;
Captain's Quarters + Invite friend to quarter button = First step towards victory(?)
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Ogod...VOICE RP in bars? Ogod...any majors in drama, anyone?
Also, be interesting how interaction will be. I suspect things will be done with a mouse. For example....
Right-click bar
- Lean both arms on
- Lean one hand on
Right-cleak seat
- Sit down straight
- Sit down in slouch
etc
Right-click self, set expression or posture
I mean we've seen photos of avatars just standing around leaning on railings so...
Before spending all of my time in EVE I spent it on SecondLife and if the methods of moving around and interacting with the space around you are similar you might be pretty close here.
While you use the keyboard to move around this is backed up with mouseclicks that offer a small "ring menu" that gives appropriate options such as sit, stand, lean, etc.
Rather than then selecting from a range of options in terms of how to sit (up straight, legs crossed, etc) the chair item includes a range of poses which then animate the character offering more realism.
Because of my time in SL I'm actually really looking forward to this.
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*St00f.*
... SecondLife ...
... "ring menu"...
...
Because of my time in SL I'm actually really looking forward to this.
I call shenanigans. That and I'll run screaming if Incarna turns into SL.
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Am I the only one who thinks moving an avatar with a mouse is dumb? Just use WASD and the autorun key for chatting while moving, like every other MMO since 1998.
this
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Am I the only one who thinks moving an avatar with a mouse is dumb? Just use WASD and the autorun key for chatting while moving, like every other MMO since 1998.
this
Click-to-move is also acceptable IMO, done with a click once and your character walks to location method. Tried and true since the computer mouse first made sweet love to graphic adventure games, circa I dunno like 1989 or something? (And now I need to play through Full Throttle again)
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I call shenanigans. That and I'll run screaming if Incarna turns into SL.
I don't think there's much risk of that. The SL shenanigans are only possible because 100% of the content is user created, and so if someone wants said shenanigans they can create and code the stuff to make it possible.
Incarna is likely to be a very different animal even with the potential to use similar mechanics to interact with the universe around you (including other people ;))
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I call shenanigans. That and I'll run screaming if Incarna turns into SL.
I don't think there's much risk of that. The SL shenanigans are only possible because 100% of the content is user created, and so if someone wants said shenanigans they can create and code the stuff to make it possible.
Incarna is likely to be a very different animal even with the potential to use similar mechanics to interact with the universe around you (including other people ;))
Oh yes, other people. Last time I was in SL I 'accidently' wandered onto a gorean land in full furry regalia then started to troll them in text and voice in Chinese. Some idiot tried to respond to me in Japanese so I laughed loudly then said, "koto kozuo yoroshiku. Baka." Then wandered off.
But that said, coding in a test environment to be able to use a tentacle bed would be fun for a few minutes then I'd get bored of luring n00bs to a squiggley death.
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I don't approve of a WASD movement scheme.
Mouse-clicking will be far more "fluid" and realistic I think. WASD will have you running up to the stool, continuing to jog into it, pausing for several seconds as you open up the mouse menu, and sit.
Mouse-click will have you enter the bar, click on the stool from the other end of the room, and go to sit on it. Your character will walk from one end, and immediately go to sit in one motion.
WASD...people running around in bars and clipping off pillars, bleh.
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I quite like the WASD walking motion movement thingy, mouse moving just irritates me unless it's just for X/Y axis movement.
I can understand click to interface, but I'm getting old and WASD movement is the oldest form of pixellated running into objects.
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I can understand click to interface, but I'm getting old and WASD movement is the oldest form of pixellated running into objects.
I remember "click to move" long before WASD became the newfangled thing.
/me is teh auld
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I can understand click to interface, but I'm getting old and WASD movement is the oldest form of pixellated running into objects.
I remember "click to move" long before WASD became the newfangled thing.
/me is teh auld
Click to move =/= the sound your walking sticks make. Although I'm awesome and us a jet-propelled zimmer.
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I can understand click to interface, but I'm getting old and WASD movement is the oldest form of pixellated running into objects.
I remember "click to move" long before WASD became the newfangled thing.
/me is teh auld
heh, I remember that too, Ragnarok online lol
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You Miss Alterana, have lost 100 internets for mentioning another of those which shall not be named.
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Up-down-left-right arrows before WASD, dudes. I remember when Oni was first released, reading a review of it out of a major gaming magazine that complained about the WASD control scheme.
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Folks, unless you were gaming on BBS door games in the Reagan area with me (or similar), then all that shit is NEW.
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Folks, unless you were gaming on BBS door games in the Reagan area with me (or similar), then all that shit is NEW.
Really? Dang, never thought I'd be a bittervet gamer grrl...
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heh, I remember that too, Ragnarok online lol
I remember... lots of hats. Still, I'd rather play that than the other MMO which shall not be named. You know the one, it's the one that uses both control schemes including that horrid holding of the two buttons to walk forward type deal.
Up-down-left-right arrows before WASD, dudes. I remember when Oni was first released, reading a review of it out of a major gaming magazine that complained about the WASD control scheme.
Haha, I can remember buying that game and being confused that it didn't use the arrow keys. I was playing Half-Life like it was Doom at that point.
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Ackshulleh, Wolfenstien was released as arrow key movement then Wolfenstien 3D was released with optional WASD control setting.
Keymapping came quite a bit later.
Anyway, I still think all Captain's Cabins will do is give a new meaning to station spinning.
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Am I the only one who thinks moving an avatar with a mouse is dumb? Just use WASD and the autorun key for chatting while moving, like every other MMO since 1998.
this
Click-to-move is also acceptable IMO, done with a click once and your character walks to location method. Tried and true since the computer mouse first made sweet love to graphic adventure games, circa I dunno like 1989 or something? (And now I need to play through Full Throttle again)
I should have stated it is my personnal appreciation of the thing. I definitly know both can be appreciated by different players and have to be possible in a game in terms of ergonomics.
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It's entirely possible that both options will be available. My personal preference is for WASD, but I could live with either one.
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Lol at you guys missing the 90s.
But seriously, you're old.
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I don't miss the 90's one bit.
You know how hard it is to grow up in a decade where no one can figure out what to do with their clothes/music/television/movies/lingo.
Suuucked.
Okay-ish games though. To be honest, I'm not sure if I'd prefer WASD or mouse schemes for movement in Incarna. I think because there's not going to be a necessity to move quickly - no combat, no real action other than player interaction, etc - I'd rather have an accurate-looking movement from bar entrance to bartop seat, than a quick-move layout like a typical WASD MMO
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It'll be good if they use both.
I prefer the WASD movement type over mouse moving, but that's because I used play a lot of games when I was in Singapore. They were a lot cheaper than they are here, PS2 was only $150SG on release and the games were $20+, PC games being around the same price.
But I'm old, so meh.
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To be honest, I'm not sure if I'd prefer WASD or mouse schemes for movement in Incarna. I think because there's not going to be a necessity to move quickly - no combat, no real action other than player interaction, etc - I'd rather have an accurate-looking movement from bar entrance to bartop seat, than a quick-move layout like a typical WASD MMO
WASD has another problem too. It reserves the keyboard and player attention. I'd much rather point and click the place I want my character to go to, and then be able to chat / alt-tab / whatever while she walks there. The way I can chat while my ship is warping from one gate to another in space.
Having to actively walk-walk-walk-walk my character to the bar, to the meeting room, to the hangar and back to the bar might be interesting on the first time and the second. How about the 50th? One big reason everybody runs around in MMOs is that the process of moving between places is boring and running gets you there faster.
I guess WASD movement in Incarna just seems like busywork to me. Why require continuous player attention to it?
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WASD has another problem too. It reserves the keyboard and player attention. I'd much rather point and click the place I want my character to go to, and then be able to chat / alt-tab / whatever while she walks there. The way I can chat while my ship is warping from one gate to another in space.
This. One thing I've noticed in WASD movement games is how much less chat there is than in eve and how much harder it is to chat while doing anything else.
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Why are we not talking about this?
Because capsuleers have capsules, not quarters and after this expansion CCP will put it in the same priority category as COSMOS, FW, and the burning station.
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Because capsuleers have capsules, not quarters and after this expansion CCP will put it in the same priority category as COSMOS, FW, and the burning station.
Maybe, but the captain's quarters have the potential to directly generate revenue through microtransactions. That might keep this expansion going for a while.
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The difference between games that has had WASD movement before is the fact that movement is not the most essential thing of Incarna.
You won't be exploring the fields for some quest items.
You will be in a location A, have your social interaction there, then go to B and have a social interaction there.
If something interesting happens while going from A to B.
You will stop and interact, not run around the interesting event while trying to have a conversation.
The pace of Incarna will be something completely different than any other MMO, especially if you can't even run, or jump.
If we would have the ability to chat efficiently while moving (which we will if you can do your interactions through voice) and the regular movement options, then the capsuleers will be running around jumping going 'LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!'
Besides if we are going for immersion here, then usually you only talk with people you are actually going from A to B with. You won't be doing channel RP while going to a bar to have similar interactions with.
You won't be playing EVE, while in Incarna, you will be playing Incarna.
Yes, there will be communication between those two games, you will probably gain information about what is going on in EVE through channels, but your primary interactions will not be there, because you will be in Incarna.
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Yes, what Lall said, please no no WASD, for all the sprinting around bars and into chairs/walls it would bring.
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Its the same with a typical mouse movement with an input saying "while the mouse button 1 is pressed, character keeps moving". Same thing.
Or you need a more strict/limited mouse movement liberty implying you need to click where your character has to go, like any RTS. But still, you can click here and there and make it move randomly all around like a retard, no matter what you do to avoid it.
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Click-to-move is also acceptable IMO, done with a click once and your character walks to location method. Tried and true since the computer mouse first made sweet love to graphic adventure games, circa I dunno like 1989 or something? (And now I need to play through Full Throttle again)
Ahhh Full Throttle, I miss Ben and the Polecats. 8)
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Honestly I think that the Captains Quarters will be a good thing.
It will Provide Obvious In your face info to the New players - Not the Current Look for a small Button and Hope it's the Right one.
It will also really add to the social Aspect of the game. Because Eventually there is a fair chance that there will be real player Run Bars.
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Eventually there is a fair chance that there will be real player Run Bars.
This.
I plan to own one.
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Eventually there is a fair chance that there will be real player Run Bars.
This.
I plan to own one.
I plan to make a fool of myself in it.
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I would happily run my own bar into the ground by putting a crazy person in charge.