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[kalaratiri]

To my eyes, the huge golden hulls firing lazors with their mighty presence have always been apocalypses. The apocalypse is the epitome of Amarr supremacy and golden fleets.

Seeing it turned into a drone/neuting platform... Too blood raider to my tastes.

Just as well it's the 'Geddon that's becoming the neut boat then 

[kalaratiri]

heh heh heh

[Lyn Farel]

To my eyes, the huge golden hulls firing lazors with their mighty presence have always been apocalypses. The apocalypse is the epitome of Amarr supremacy and golden fleets.

Seeing it turned into a drone/neuting platform... Too blood raider to my tastes.

Just as well it's the 'Geddon that's becoming the neut boat then 

We already have the Bhaalgorn, so... It sounds more natural. vOv

[Morwen Lagann]

Eh.

The changes to the Armageddon as listed are going to require buffs to the Bhaalgorn to make it worth flying.

A single Armageddon may have less neuting power than a single Bhaalgorn, but it will have more range to do its thing and be far cheaper - cheaper to the point that it will still be cheaper to field the number of Armageddons equivalent to a single Bhaalgorn (two or three, if I've done my math right).

The web range bonus that the Bhaalgorn has doesn't really outweigh the utility of a neut/nos range bonus.

[Silas Vitalia]

Bhaalgorn won't be worth spit now. 

Why pay billions when you can do the same thing for 1/5 the price?

[kalaratiri]

Bhaalgorn won't be worth spit now. 

Why pay billions when you can do the same thing for 1/5 the price?

You can't.

Bhaalgorn with BS 5 neuts as much as 12.5 neuts.

Geddon with BS 5 neuts as much as 7 neuts, at longer range. For killing triage/capitals you're considerably better off with the bhaalgorn. For putting the hurt on kiters and logi, the geddon will have a role.

Sure, you can blob geddons to neut out caps, but hell, you used to be able to do that with hurricanes.

[DeadRow]

Bhaalgorn won't be worth spit now. 

Why pay billions when you can do the same thing for 1/5 the price?

Because it doesn't do the same? Bhaal has 12.25 effective neuts compared to the geddon's 7. Geddon is great if you want a cheap neuting ship but it won't compare to the Bhaalgorn.

fakeedit: sniped by kala

[kalaratiri]

Have you guys seen the raven?

*drool*



Look how fast it is!

[Morwen Lagann]

Two Geddons is still less than half the price of a single Bhaalgorn, guys. That is the disparity Silas and I are talking about.

There's no reason to field a Bhaalgorn when you can just throw two Geddons at the problem for less than half the price.

[kalaratiri]

Oh, also: http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?11380-Odyssey-Changes-Rebalanced-Navy-Cruisers-T1-Cruisers-%28and-EFT-files%29&p=748288&viewfull=1#post748288

For those of you who like EFT as much as I do

[Silas Vitalia]

Neut range ridiculously more important than amount in 90% of pvp, unless you are sitting still on a capital trying to suck them dry.

Yes the Bhaal sucks more cap, but it doesn't suck 10x more cap. 

For what I currently pay for a decently fit bhaal I'll fit up 3 new geddons and an ashimmu and eat your lunch every day of the week.

[DeadRow]

For a similarly fit geddon (DB Neuts, faction tank, etc.) You'll be lucky to fit two geddons for the price of one bhaalgorn. Note that mineral requirements might be heading upwards for current tier 1 hulls.

[Silas Vitalia]

For a similarly fit geddon (DB Neuts, faction tank, etc.) You'll be lucky to fit two geddons for the price of one bhaalgorn. Note that mineral requirements might be heading upwards for current tier 1 hulls.

I think you are missing my point in that I don't need to similarly fit it.

I can fit many of them cheaply for less money in total and outperform the fancy ship.

As someone who currently uses the fancy ship in pvp it makes me sadface. It's not so special anymore.

[DeadRow]

For a similarly fit geddon (DB Neuts, faction tank, etc.) You'll be lucky to fit two geddons for the price of one bhaalgorn. Note that mineral requirements might be heading upwards for current tier 1 hulls.

I think you are missing my point in that I don't need to similarly fit it.

I can fit many of them cheaply for less money in total and outperform the fancy ship.

As someone who currently uses the fancy ship in pvp it makes me sadface. It's not so special anymore.

I'm not missing the point at all, I think you're just falling for the hyperbole. You don't gain that much range from the Bhaalgorn unless you do  faction fit it. 8km is rather trival considering you'll get an extra 5 neuts worth of cap warfare onto your target.

I also think that a range bonus really isn't that overpowered. Take Kala's two neut setup; no one really bats an eyelid at two neuts these days. And kiting gangs can operate well past that range. (lol rapier/huginn and Arazu/lachesis keeping you webbed/pointed from 60km).

It's a nice bonus to the Geddon, for real. But it isn't taking the Bhaalgorn's place as neut king.

[Silas Vitalia]

Not dethroning on a 1v1 comparison by any means but these ships for the price scale to laughable overpowered effectiveness. Whereas before you would see small numbers of a specialized / expensive ship for that kind of work now you are going to see cheap BS gangs flooded with extremely effective and long ranged neuting.

It's going to be horribad for people on the other side of these things.  If this goes through as currently planned I promise the tears will fill oceans.