Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE Character Development => Topic started by: Laria Raven on 22 Feb 2013, 09:11
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Hi,
This is one of those annoying "There is only Zuul" RPer-Type questions. How do you balance when you as a player want to do something that your character probably doesn't? When it's a big thing, particularly. How legitimate do you think it is to bend your character's actions towards your OOC wants, rather than allowing your play to follow your character's natural growth and development?
It's a fairly general RP question, but it seems to me to be exacerbated by the dichotomy of EVE as an RPer - EVE the game vs EVE the RP environment.
Anyone got any thoughts?
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I usually workshop it with a few people and we toss around ideas for explanations and possible ways back afterwards. Sometimes those ideas might require OOC co-operation from other players, which I know is frowned upon by some. For example if I wanted to go be a Blood Raider for a while, I might contact some players with Blooder characters and corps and say "hey, I want to come fly with you guys, but not permanently, and I want to leave a reasonable path back to normality for my character. How about if I have Camille kidnapped by some third-party not-really-existing Blood Raiders and say Cia pretends to join you because she's trying to get information through your networks. You have my OOC commitment that there will be no espionage, AWOXing or other dastardly deeds without pre-discussion and consent."
Yes, it takes away the surprise and the emergent nature of the interaction, but I have seen things go very very bad for players who tried radical transitions without such pre-planning.
*edit* And I didn't answer your direct question. Totally legitimate. I just would try to do what I enjoy now in a way that wouldn't make me not enjoy playing later.
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Personally, I tend to follow my own, pleyer's, desires and try to rationalize such actions ICly. At first it's a game, so you should do whatever you will enjoy the most. Of course, sometimes it requires really bending your character but I would rather do it, trying to justify such thing ICly than forcing myself to do and roleplay something I don't want to.
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"Are you the gatekeeper?"
My own personal opinion is that the player has the final say in everything. You can justify the rest later at your convenience, because ultimately you being entertained is the end goal. If you're restricting yourself in a way that detracts from your entertainment, it defeats the purpose of role-playing to begin with. However, you'll hear from hardcore roleplayers who say they have fun acting out a role, even if it goes against their personal player wishes; the choice is yours in what you find more rewarding.
The problem I have with 'natural growth and development' is that players often overlook the chaotic and contradictory nature of humanity, claiming that a character isn't believable because they didn't do X. Order is expected, and will always be critical of decisions that don't make sense to them. As long as they make sense to your character it's what matters.
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Whether intentionally or otherwise, everyone bends their character to their OOC desires to some degree, so the "legitimacy" of it is a bit of a non-issue, and your entertainment as a player supersedes any perceived obligation to a particular character or its story.
Alternatively (no pun intended), there's always alts.
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I have fun as long as my character remains believable and coherent, so I tend to rather follow the character's needs than my own.
Of course though, it is not to say that I will try to go in a nullsec alliance that I don't like myself if it suddenly makes sense to my character...
But yeah, sometimes it's complicated like that. That's also why I do not play a character that is completely opposed to me the player in terms of where we find "fun".
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OOC fun > IC actions
That's how I go with it. Most of the time those two things coincide for me. Yeah I've gotten into some shit sometimes but it's always smoothed out one way or the other and lead to more funtimes. :yar:
EDIT:
IC can be always bent to make sense. Sometimes it takes more work than not but I'd say talk directly with those involved in the coming changes and see if you can get their perspective on the matter.
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As EVE is more or less a full-time RP game, where all of your in-game actions are treated as IC, I personally refuse to participate in activities that would be out of character for the character, no matter how much I personally may want to. As Samira is a non-combatant, for example, I do not participate in combat, or if I do I do it in a way that is appropriate for the character... such as tagging along being PIE while in a salvage coercer.
I may eventually create alts who are able to participate in a wider range of activities (and intend to make a Caldari militant once I'm more comfortable with the lore), and I have plans for ways to evolve Samira's character if I wish to expand what she is willing to do. But unless the action can be rationalized ICly, I'll avoid it. I personally believe that IC Consistency > OOC Fun.
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How do you balance when you as a player want to do something that your character probably doesn't? When it's a big thing, particularly.
I can't say I've really come across the problem. I tend to play characters that are more personality characters than concept characters, and options that fell on their paths tended to both be agreeable to me, and well within the range of the characters' flex.
How legitimate do you think it is to bend your character's actions towards your OOC wants, rather than allowing your play to follow your character's natural growth and development?
It's legit. In fact, I'm a bit worried for the people who loudly claim their character is in control of their actions, rather than the other way around. I'd stop and analyze how I'd gotten to the point I stopped enjoying what I'm doing. If I'm bored or frustrated with something, imagine how my characters, who actually have to deal with that stuff must feel, and what they're thinking.
I can see how it can be tough, though - aside from the constant nagging of the Consistency Police, the worst situation is where a bunch of your friends decide to run off and do X, where X is something that you'd want to do with them but doesn't mesh very well with your character's internal logic and development so far. There are no easy answers for that situation, although I like Ciarente's suggestions in that direction.
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the big example of this sort of thing happening lately, are the live events.
lots of people rush to the event, even if the reason for them being there is questionable at best.
Like, dropping whatever they were doing, to rush 20 jumps to say a couple lines and then disappear again.
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It's legit. In fact, I'm a bit worried for the people who loudly claim their character is in control of their actions, rather than the other way around. I'd stop and analyze how I'd gotten to the point I stopped enjoying what I'm doing.
Personal enjoyment can come as a byproduct from faithfully portraying the role you wish to play. Even if you might need to avoid engaging in immediate OOC desires in order to maintain IC consistency, the knowledge that you are being true to your character can itself lead to OOC enjoyment and pride.
That's how I find it, at least. While I might not be doing things I OOCly want to do, I still find myself enjoying the game because of the fact that I am being consistent in my RP.
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I have actually come across this problem before, and have yet to find a really satisfactory solution.
The issue for me is that I love mid- to large-scale PvP actions, especially using larger hulls. In fact, it's about the only kind of PvP I find fun lately.
Problem is, there really aren't any Amarr-aligned RP groups that do this, especially since Facwar still leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth.
Instead I invented a very convoluted reason for Esna to be in a non-RP, non-Amarr corp. And then a few weeks back, something else threw a big wrench into that. Still figuring out what to do about that.
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I'll echo the sentiments who have said OOC fun trumps character desires. More to the point, if you wouldn't have any fun doing something, why would you roleplay it? For an extreme example of this, if you think bestiality is creepy and disturbing (I hope you do), then it makes no sense for you to make your character do that. Why would you play a character that does things you as a player dislikes?
That's not to say the character design has no sway. I don't think I would have come out to WH space without my character pushing me in that direction (probably I'd be mission running in Curse and marketeering still) but I've had a lot of fun out here so I just sorta let things lead where they would. I definitely think it comes down to fun. EVE is a game. If you're not having fun, why are you playing it? That seems really counter-productive to me.
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I usually find a way to make the IC reasons work out and do what I want to do OOCly. If I'm not having fun in game, I won't be online to RP the character anyway. I've only had to "force" an OOC decision once and it was certainly for the better.
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I'll echo the sentiments who have said OOC fun trumps character desires. More to the point, if you wouldn't have any fun doing something, why would you roleplay it? For an extreme example of this, if you think bestiality is creepy and disturbing (I hope you do), then it makes no sense for you to make your character do that. Why would you play a character that does things you as a player dislikes?
You may want to be careful with that train of thought, because it suggests that players enjoy murder, blood rituals, racism, enslavement of 'inferior' cultures, kidnapping, torture, and probably lots of horrific things that characters in the EVE universe do. I am fairly certain that players do enjoy getting into character and exploring other personalities than their own. I think some of the thrill in this is acting out in manner that the player wouldn't consider ever doing in the real world.
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I'll echo the sentiments who have said OOC fun trumps character desires. More to the point, if you wouldn't have any fun doing something, why would you roleplay it? For an extreme example of this, if you think bestiality is creepy and disturbing (I hope you do), then it makes no sense for you to make your character do that. Why would you play a character that does things you as a player dislikes?
You may want to be careful with that train of thought, because it suggests that players enjoy murder, blood rituals, racism, enslavement of 'inferior' cultures, kidnapping, torture, and probably lots of horrific things that characters in the EVE universe do. I am fairly certain that players do enjoy getting into character and exploring other personalities than their own. I think some of the thrill in this is acting out in manner that the player wouldn't consider ever doing in the real world.
Plenty of people watch horror movies without having any desire to be a murderer or a murderee. Its all fantasy at the end of the day. Some people enjoy stories with those things, some don't. But RPing something you don't enjoy...thats like reading a book you don't like for the sake of the characters in the book. It seems kind of backward to me.
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What Mercy said. It's entirely possible a dislikable element loans itself to a fuller character that one does enjoy playing. To play an Amarrian hardliner, for example. Understandably if an aspect of your character is rather ugly you don't have to go into great detail with it, but some things should remain so the broader picture has context, no?
Still, I come across this balancing act often. I've got a healthy respect for players who are able to maintain a strong IC presence without showing any, let alone a lot, of OOC personality. Off the top of my head, players such as Rodj or John or Crow, even Mitara's snooty (but realistic so!) attitude in the Summit, and I'll admit to taking a bit of inspiration from such. I wonder how much of a balancing act they do?
But I am not my character, and I damn sure don't let my character lead in front so-to-speak, so I still find myself doing a bit of give and take here. Strive for an entirely pure character presence, but making concessions so you don't stop enjoying the game makes perfect sense too.
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Rather, yes; I think that's an element most people understand, but don't express very precisely. You don't have to personally enjoy the things your character does, you just have to enjoy acting out your character doing them. (Lest by logical extension, your characters spend all day playing space MMORPGs. EVEception.)
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Yeah, well put!
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I generally let my character lead, until it starts to threaten the OOC RP.
For example, let's take a private relationship RP. Her significant other does something that upsets Katrina. I allow Kat to get upset and RP it accordingly. Due to continued organic RP, the situation begins to escalate just like in real life, turning into a fight with hurt feelings. If this were real life, the two would be in danger of breaking up because of this sort of escalation.
I do not enjoy that sort of RP, so I agree with the other person OOC to calm our characters down. By interfering with them, the two are 'magically' open to negotiation and apology now, and they resolve the issue. Divine intervention, so to speak.
So... in the end, I let Kat lead until I feel it threatens my OOC enjoyment.
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Anslo's a nutter. He does what he wants, he has his reasons. I just let him roll with it and munch popcorn.
I don't know why, but I'm good at detaching my personal feelings from his situations.
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I'll echo the sentiments who have said OOC fun trumps character desires. More to the point, if you wouldn't have any fun doing something, why would you roleplay it? For an extreme example of this, if you think bestiality is creepy and disturbing (I hope you do), then it makes no sense for you to make your character do that. Why would you play a character that does things you as a player dislikes?
You may want to be careful with that train of thought, because it suggests that players enjoy murder, blood rituals, racism, enslavement of 'inferior' cultures, kidnapping, torture, and probably lots of horrific things that characters in the EVE universe do. I am fairly certain that players do enjoy getting into character and exploring other personalities than their own. I think some of the thrill in this is acting out in manner that the player wouldn't consider ever doing in the real world.
Plenty of people watch horror movies without having any desire to be a murderer or a murderee. Its all fantasy at the end of the day. Some people enjoy stories with those things, some don't. But RPing something you don't enjoy...thats like reading a book you don't like for the sake of the characters in the book. It seems kind of backward to me.
A lot of actors leap at the opportunity to play the bad guy, remember! And a lot of authors enjoy writing them. RPing your character doing something you don't like and wouldn't do in RL can be the same.
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Oh I agree Cia definitely. Its very much along the same vein. At the same time, if you're someone who DOESN'T enjoy playing the bad guy, you shouldn't try to force yourself in that direction. The inverse is also true.
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Oh I agree Cia definitely. Its very much along the same vein. At the same time, if you're someone who DOESN'T enjoy playing the bad guy, you shouldn't try to force yourself in that direction. The inverse is also true.
Absofragginlutely!
I prefer playing characters that are ordinary for the setting I am in, or outsiders who are learning about a culture, or outright heroic types. But in a game like this I need folks to be the antagonist and wouldn't dream of trying to discourage them if it floats their boat to do so. What I find personally alarming is people who seem to have so immersed themselves in their chosen role that they can't bring themselves to believe they are playing a bad person at all.
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Oh I agree Cia definitely. Its very much along the same vein. At the same time, if you're someone who DOESN'T enjoy playing the bad guy, you shouldn't try to force yourself in that direction. The inverse is also true.
Absofragginlutely!
I prefer playing characters that are ordinary for the setting I am in, or outsiders who are learning about a culture, or outright heroic types. But in a game like this I need folks to be the antagonist and wouldn't dream of trying to discourage them if it floats their boat to do so. What I find personally alarming is people who seem to have so immersed themselves in their chosen role that they can't bring themselves to believe they are playing a bad person at all.
Or think that the bad guys must be bad people IRL and should be locked up in prison because they bumped someone's mining ship.
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I'm a big fan of letting your character lead and staying true to whatever they would do.
This has caused me to miss plenty of fun things, chats, events, etc, and have some bad blood with people, but I like having having that bit of purity whenever I can and let it go where it takes me.
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What I find personally alarming is people who seem to have so immersed themselves in their chosen role that they can't bring themselves to believe they are playing a bad person at all.
I don't find that alarming at all. Bad is a subjective term, dictated by our own morality or one generally accepted by a society. Part of roleplaying is immersing ourselves in characters in vastly different circumstances, cultural identity, and value system. The best villains, in my book, are those who we, the viewer/reader, can identify with and understand their reasoning for what they do, even if by real world standards is considered barbaric. Some people who do terrible things for (in their minds) a greater good and have suppressed a conflicting emotion realizing what they might be doing is wrong, while others may simply see their behavior as a positive act, even if others disagree.
Personally, I don't like the term good or bad, as it denotes a two-dimensional thought process to complex issues.
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QFT, but there's also a distinction between your character's viewpoint and your own as a player. It may be more or less prevalent for different players, but it ties into the topic and is worth identifying.
Safai could never admit to being evil, not ever, but I often find myself stepping back and saying "wow, she is really wretched" and that's alright.
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Character comes first, the character dictates the actions.
For the player to stay sane there is the need for IC/OOC divide.
There are plenty of places in EVE where you can go as the player and stay fully OOC and never mix the IC life with the OOC one.
Yes, it is a handicap. But handicaps just make all the small victories that much sweeter.
There is a big downside to it as well, it may drive you out of EVE.
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Very tough question.
The best answer I can give is that it's a constant battle between "what would I do?" and "what would ____ Nihil do?". I almost always defer to how they would behave in a given situation, unless I don't have a good feeling for how they would react, or unless there's a very good reason. Thankfully, a lot of their character traits tend to be compatible with mine, so we would think alike (for instance, Sakura's strategic outlook on the wars of the cluster) in a fair number of instances.
I understand that this is "RP on easy mode" to some degree, in that it doesn't push me too hard to understand how they think. However, I live for combat in this game, that's what I joined for, RPing only came as an add-on when Sak joined Star Fraction a long time ago, and I found it was a nice addition to help distinguish my characters from one another.
I try my best to stay away from staged or planned events, preferring not to delve super-deep into the plot and setting, but rather focusing on person-to-person interaction for my enjoyment. I try and be spontaneous and reactionary as possible, figuring out opinions on current events and conversations as I go without a pre-planned, high-level script for how I want the character to develop.
In short, whatever happens, happens. Sakura went from essentially a mining corporation's security guard in a Ferox to pirate due to being backstabbed by "friends", and over time she's gone down that path further and further. Her sisters are still somewhat blank slates, but only really due to lack of RL time on my end, or circumstances shaping their growth as individuals. I don't know what's in store for any of them - case in point, the one up in Caldari space, Akusa, was put in an interesting position when all the ground attacks started happening in the State, and the Guristas raid occurred. But because it didn't affect her personally, and she was too busy, it didn't give her a reason to change.
Had this occured during the time she (and I) would have been logged into the game, and she would have heard about this, she would have participated in the live event. Whether she would have assisted the State, tried to prevent or stop a fight, or backstabbed the other Caldari there and gone rogue for the Guristas, I don't know.
Whatever happens, happens.
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So, the question still remains:
What do you do when what your character would do, you find to be intensely boring and not worth paying $15/mo. for?
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Different characters for different things is my approach.
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So, the question still remains:
What do you do when what your character would do, you find to be intensely boring and not worth paying $15/mo. for?
If the RP is good, the $15/mo is worth it.
Especially if you can just buy a PLEX.
Mining isn't exactly a very fun activity for me OOC, but I'm enjoying the RP.
The above post is sound, too.
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I think what works best is to find a point in between. And this depends a lot on the character design, even as it may evolve over time it is a rough template of what you can do with him. From then on, balancing RP with OOC is what keeps things going. Usually, I focus on the IC side of things, let Seph evolve and move. But sometimes, a little pushing has to be done, in order to keep things working and moving into what I like.
Oh, and fucking old-habits and old-Seph continue to introduce elements in Catillah that I hadn't thought about and make him evolve in strange ways... :S
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So, the question still remains:
What do you do when what your character would do, you find to be intensely boring and not worth paying $15/mo. for?
For "boring" you could substitute a number of alternative words that also mean "not fun".
It's a good question, and many of us grapple with it. It's complicated, too, because it's not a simple inverse correlation of immersion vs fun, but a complex interaction of gameplay, storytelling, community (positive and negative, and as a setting for gameplay and storytelling), consistency, consequences and player satisfaction.
I'll throw in an extra point that varies from player to player: consider how you respond longer term to IC choices made for OOC reasons. For some people and in some cases it's all fine and you incorporate that into your story. Other times you end up with a character who's doing something for no discernible reason, which can get hard to play.
Always remember that you don't have to play EVE. There is life outside the pod.
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So, the question still remains:
What do you do when what your character would do, you find to be intensely boring and not worth paying $15/mo. for?
Quit playing, or spin my ship while doing something else.
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If the RP is good, the $15/mo is worth it.
Especially if you can just buy a PLEX.
That's very subjective. I was very much enjoying the RP, but the last time I was in-game, the precise reason I left is that the RP was the only thing I found fun. I didn't like feeling obligated to log in to continue accumulating ISK just so I could RP, and the idea of spending real currency on glorified IRC wasn't justifiable for me. Seconding Matariki's sentiments on that front.
My approach to Laria's problem is a bit brute force, but it has worked for me on the occasions I've encountered it myself: "Is the RP making the game more or less fun?" is the main question I asked myself. My logic is that roleplaying is meant to enrich playing the game rather than be a chore; if you'd much rather be doing something that your character isn't, then it's often possible to find a reasonably plausible way to drive them into that.
Issues arise if someone does this a lot and ends up bouncing between factions frequently, of course, but then that's another matter.
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That's very subjective. I was very much enjoying the RP, but the last time I was in-game, the precise reason I left is that the RP was the only thing I found fun. I didn't like feeling obligated to log in to continue accumulating ISK just so I could RP, and the idea of spending real currency on glorified IRC wasn't justifiable for me. Seconding Matariki's sentiments on that front.
Yup, same happened to me three years ago, and I too ended up leaving EVE for the same reasons.
My approach to Laria's problem is a bit brute force, but it has worked for me on the occasions I've encountered it myself: "Is the RP making the game more or less fun?" is the main question I asked myself. My logic is that roleplaying is meant to enrich playing the game rather than be a chore; if you'd much rather be doing something that your character isn't, then it's often possible to find a reasonably plausible way to drive them into that.
Issues arise if someone does this a lot and ends up bouncing between factions frequently, of course, but then that's another matter.
Agreed completely no this too, there's a limit to how many deep changes a character can undergo in a given period of time without being seen as totally unreliable, unfocused, and probably even mad.
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I get nervous when Im playing with a character who obviously is making IC choices for OOC whims. Makes the story hard to play, and makes it difficult to try OOC/IC distinctions. There is a line, obviously, but wildly divergent, hard to justify choices for OOC reasons makes the game less fun, in my view at least, and makes me less likely to want to invest my IC time and narrative in that player or character.
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Well, if it is done right, people shouldn't be aware of the OOC influence in the shaping of the personality ICly and how the character understands what happens. Of course, I agree that playing with someone who lets that show, breaks the inmersion, so it has to be done right.
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Hi,
This is one of those annoying "There is only Zuul" RPer-Type questions. How do you balance when you as a player want to do something that your character probably doesn't? When it's a big thing, particularly. How legitimate do you think it is to bend your character's actions towards your OOC wants, rather than allowing your play to follow your character's natural growth and development?
This one is a might struggle at the moment. :ugh:
I designed Makkal to like what I like and her personality type is one that's easy to play with. The problem is that it's been a year since I created her and I'm a dilettante. I know that if I relax and give it a month or so, several of my 'issues' will work themselves out, but in the mean time, I'm constantly having to slap my hand away from my own PC.
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This happens to me all the freaking time.
Usually, it's Aria wanting to do something I just don't have time in my life for, but sometimes I just get bored doing what I'm doing. Most often I come up with some circumstance or excuse that plausibly explains the shift and go my merry way, then elaborate and expand as necessary. Over time, these incidents have become key parts of Aria's character-- her unpredictability, her contrariness, the "imp of the perverse" that drives her to abandon or sabotage so much of what she begins.
I've come to believe that a truly long-term character, especially one played semi-continuously over a period of years, should function as a sort of drop-cloth over the player's own character and inclinations. The character's motivations and beliefs may differ radically from the player's, but they must cover the same basic structure-- it is difficult to play a deeply wise character if you yourself lack common sense; it is difficult to play a steadfast one if you yourself are mercurial; it is difficult to play a deeply treacherous one if the very thought of betrayal fills you with shame.
Some of these are harder to overcome than others. I presently play an embittered Dresden Files character for a few hours every two weeks who has a gift for treachery. This is an experiment, though; sustained play is harder to pull off. No matter how much I admire Hellgremlin's maneuverings, I cannot quite bring myself to betray the people I play with constantly for months.
Aria's contrary streak stops at the level of my own somewhat changeable, but never treacherous, whimsy. And, for me to continue enjoying the character, that's probably how it should be. It is tiring to play someone whose desires do not, and cannot, align with your own.
(Important note: please bear in mind that these are the desires of a player in a game. Leslewellyn (player), IRL, is nothing like as ruthless as Aria (character), but does play games ruthlessly as long as this can be done without feeling like a jerk (so I still end up on the "Paragon" side of the Mass Effect alignment scale).)
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My solution, take with a grain of salt.
Don't give into apathy. Don't play it safe. Stay uncomfortable as much as you possibly can.
I design characters that I can't relate to, and personally feel that the less I truly understand a character and their motives, the more fun they are to play. Writing is about having fun, capturing (or defying) realism, but most importantly, its about exploring the human condition, in all its many facets. Your number one duty from an academic perspective is to follow your consciousness wherever it may lead you, even if that might not necessarily be places you want to go. We all have darkness inside of us. Learning to diminish and control it comes from understanding, not ignorance. Of course, you also have duties to yourself and your others, and all these variables must be weighed equally during character development and RP.
I designed Z-ARK to be an oddity, confusing, annoying, infinitely wise and unimaginably naive. I have no idea what its like to be Z-ARK, I can only guess through metaphor and allegory. But he is relatable to me in very real ways. He is curious, he is non-partisan, he has faith in something more but not blind faith, and most importantly he fundamentally believes that being human is something to aspire to, not hate. Yes, he is a total Data ripoff. But cliches become cliches for a reason.
Felix, on the other hand, I can relate to in more ways but in so many circumstances I find his motivations to be utterly alien to me. Although I believe in a higher power, I am not religious. Felix, however, is fervent in his faith to the point of fanatical. And even though he is a heretic, a conscious choice to help me better understand his motivations and play him well, he does not second guess himself or question his resolve. He has many things I lack that I envy. He is brave, moral, fierce, and flawed. He is also a prisoner in a culture that is fundamentally at odds with his principles, and he is too much of a coward to fight back or reassess his values. This is perhaps the most relatable and alien part of his character, either and both because of the other.
Is boredom a risk? Always. Writing is all about taking risks. Not all of them pan out. Maybe Makkal will come to better appreciate her character in time, maybe she will scrap the concept. I hope, for all our sakes, for the former outcome. But her problem is a very real one and not uncommon in writers' circles. At what point is it appropriate, if ever, to violate the integrity of your character dedication for the sake of fun or personal gain?
There's no right or wrong answer, obviously, but here is what has worked for me. Fuck complacency. Is your character boring you? Write a RP or short story about something extremely important occuring in their life that becomes integral to their storyline. This can be traumatic or miraculous, subtle or grandiose. Whatever it takes to get you back in a place where you feel as if you can do your character the best service possible.
This might be a semantic difference of opinion, but your capacity for writing a well-rounded, human character is always a priority, even over fun. That may seem counter-intuitive or just plain wrong, but here's a thought experiment. You are RPing a character that you love and everyone else despises. And not just their personality, everything about them and the way that you RP them. Is that fun for the community? Is that what is best? How long do you think you'll have fun before everyone just ignores you, or kicks you from the channel?
Here's a particularly relevant example. When I first debuted Z-ARK in Summit, the response was overwhelmingly critical. Many experienced RPers warned me that Z-ARK's uniquely mechanical way of interaction could be intimidating for many people to interact with on a level that was true to their characters. Some people flat out told me he was annoying and that their character would just ignore him. That's okay, I can take the heat.
So I had a choice: scrap Z-ARK completely, or tweak his personality in subtle enough ways to make him both enjoyable to write and enjoyable to interact with. Obviously I'm not quite there yet, but I have a specific flashpoint in mind to make that problem go away for the most part, just waiting for the right time. Whatever that is.
Writing is art. I think we're all in agreement here, so maybe I'm preaching to the choir, but throughout the history of literature it has been relegated to pulp fair and written off as a basic comfort of the proletariat. If you disagree, ask yourself why there are no creative writing programs in most Fine Art colleges.
Even the term "novel", though it has grown to mean something so much more both culturally and artistically, at first meant how it sounds. It was a derogatory term, meant to belittle the art form. Good for some cheap laughs and maybe a nice cry, but otherwise an utterly novel experience. These are the same people who believed the poetic epic was the highest form of writing and could never be supplanted. How many epics do you see getting published these days?
Above all else, hold no fear of change. Stability is a writer's worst enemy. I know the popular opinion is that writers live in abject poverty and are forced to struggle through a society that cares nothing for them, and that is true, but do not mistake that for the only reason.
The best artists have a high probability of being the tortured ones. There are always outliers, but the fact is that poverty and failure lead to a rapidly changing life, from circumstances to wealth to friends to beliefs. It is in this state that some of the best art in the history of the world has been crafted, it is in this chaos that we thrive as prosaic composers.
This is true, both for us, and for our characters. But remember, everything in moderation. Even tears. Especially tears.
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Z-ARK:
Without entirely disagreeing, I'd analogize a long-term RPG character more to a set of tools than to a work of art itself.
The character's story, the character's life-path, is more the "art." Understanding the character allows us to chart that path with that much more precision. Being comfortable with the character allows us the energy to continue the path that much longer.
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I largely ignore what lasa does ooc unless directly asked ic. Two different things IMO.
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Z-ARK:
Without entirely disagreeing, I'd analogize a long-term RPG character more to a set of tools than to a work of art itself.
The character's story, the character's life-path, is more the "art." Understanding the character allows us to chart that path with that much more precision. Being comfortable with the character allows us the energy to continue the path that much longer.
Perhaps it would have been better for me to say that you should accept comfort and discomfort as equal forces for good in character development.
As to the other thing, I'm pretty sure thats a rabbit hole we don't want to go down in terms of arguing, as it would probably lead to us needing to define "art" and set its parameters, which always leads to bloodbath.
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Interestingly, it's never really been a problem for me. As a writer, I've made and explored a lot of characters, many of them deeply unpleasant individuals. The Robespierre-quoting cockney terrorist wanting everything to burn and the sadistic torturer alien particularly stick in my mind.
Repentence is not someone I'd get on with. Her pro-slavery outlook, total selfishness and a host of other traits are ones that we do not share, but I find her fascinating to play. I'm also aware that she's come a very long way from the naive cuddleslut she used to be, but that's just been natural evolution. That said, it's come in large part because I'm a total sadist who puts their characters through hell just because it amuses my twisted mind.
Joining Veto is probably the one real example where IC and OOC interests conflicted - PRETA more or less shut down, but Mortis had no interest in working with Guristas and, had it been up to him, would probably have just buggered off to Curse to continue working with the Cartel. The player wanted to keep up with the old gang and do more of the same, though, so I concocted 'orders from above'.
For the most part, though, I've been content to just let things shift as they may. Part of that may be my historically massive swarm of alts (I was running three accounts for a while), so I really could have my cake and eat it.
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There have been just a couple of instances I've had to trump Mitty and beat her with the "be nice" stick. I can likely justify it ICly, but if I as a player had no concern for other fellow players, things would have played out differently. It's a tough line sometimes.
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There have been just a couple of instances I've had to trump Mitty and beat her with the "be nice" stick. I can likely justify it ICly, but if I as a player had no concern for other fellow players, things would have played out differently. It's a tough line sometimes.
I used to regularly have Morwen beating me round the head and demanding that I stop making life 'more interesting'.
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My real life was more than "interesting" enough back then, what with struggling to stay in school at the time, not to mention all the OTHER non-stop drama I had to deal with from everyone else. Can you blame me for smacking you, knowing how you used to enjoy putting all those other drama-noobs to shame? :P
I didn't have the time to deal with it at the time - literally - but on the other hand I was going to be required to deal with it because of my proximity to the epicenter. :P
Becoming a pirate was more of an OOC decision than an IC one, in my case. I needed something new, the corp I was in at the time was falling apart due to drama, and I had friends in a PVP corp who wanted to teach me. So, I went there. Luckily most of them were friends IC as well, so it sort of worked out even if the decision to go pirate is still something Morwen struggles to justify IC.
My switch from Ghost Festival to Veto was similar to Mort's. Friends/family were going there, it just made sense to follow along.
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I think, at the moment, my desires and that of my character are pretty much in sync, mostly because everything is fluid at the moment. I am still learning the ropes, figuring out what I like to do, and such. Also, the fact that I've based Steff loosely around some of my own ideals, personality quirks, and passions makes it easier. That said, perhaps once she has grown up a bit more and I have a more concrete idea of what I want to be doing, this may change. Which, as a writer and having interests in social sciences and human interaction, I look forward to seeing.
For someone who has a hard time expressing themselves (both character and myself), this forum and the IGS forum have helped shape Steff's beliefs and personality a great deal more than I thought they would. I also thought it would be much longer before I stepped out of the safe shadows of obscurity and lurking and got into the RP in EVE...though I think I did lurk in Summit and OOC for about a week before saying anything.