EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources > EVE OOC Summit
Khanid Kingdom and Blooders and controversy, oh my!
Mizhara:
Honestly, still not fond of it. I originally just moved some freedom fighters, viral weapons and armaments to Chakaid's home system with the intent of mostly just having it vague and private. Just an in-game representation of Miz occasionally having some influence on the Network, providing them with some funding, logistics etc. This grew a bit out of control when certain CCP folk were told and subsequently news articled that apparently Miz, Samira and freedom fighters in general find it a lovely trade to throw dozens of lives away to successfully sneeze on a clone vat.
This changed the rules. For the worse. They're no longer clear and they've opened up for significant abuse and unequal treatment by CCP/ISD etc. Now we can apparently do things that frankly open up some serious cans of worms, because we have no clear limitations on it nor a way to measure the effect reliably compared to effort/isk put into it, etc etc.
So x amount of Freedom Fighters and y amount of armaments and viral bombs got z result. Now, what happens if I empty a few freighters' worth of the same? It's well within my financial and in-game capabilities to do this. What happens if I do it in Amarr? What happens if someone does it in Pator? Etc etc. The rules have gone out the window and it's now all in the very subjective hands of a particular CCP employee, and there's absolutely no fucking way he is capable of responding equally to different such player initiatives. It'll get biased, it'll get unbalanced, and it'll be massive plotholin' going on.
... but he did change the rules the first time he did it. The precedent has been set. You can't really go back from that, and as I said before when the subject of dumping marines or whatever in cargobays came up: If it was possible, Miz would be dumping millions in Amarr etc. Fortunately, the news articles have kept certain things vague, thank fuck. The numbers, the effects, the actual mechanics of what's going on are somewhat obscure and this allows for limitations to be in place.
--- Quote ---Several Minmatar capsuleers, including Mizhara Del'thul and Teinyhr, have publicly claimed responsibility for deploying operatives to the system.
It is unclear just how many ships have made it through. Imperial news outlets are denying that any unauthorized craft have survived, but reports from the surface have suggested several ships of Minmatar and SOE design were successfully able to penetrate aerial defenses.
--- End quote ---
Here for instance, there's even the deniability built-in. There's not even confirmation that it ever worked in the first place. Just indications. There's even some denying it worked at all. Fantastic. This keeps things where it can be limited or even removed. It still lives in that actually viable headspace of "this is primarily baseliner organizations doing things, and getting some capsuleer support in the limited ways capsuleers CAN support them." rather than "capsuleers can now wage entire baseliner wars with their private ISK Market Armies."
If it wasn't, you'd now have to take for instance Vlad's ridiculous edgelord over the top bullshit post seriously.
I wish they hadn't changed the rules on this. It's too vague, too unclear, too open for abuse and it severely changes things In Character to the point where you have to be doing these things because it'd make no sense at all NOT to since it's apparently entirely possible. I just hope that particular dev pulls back a bit and sets some very conservative rules in place about just how much of an effect capsuleers can have there, because otherwise there's really not much stopping a few wealthy of us from just dumping huge freighterloads of armies around the place.
I'm sure the problems inherent with that should be readily apparent to anyone.
... for now though, as he did change the rules, we just have to play under the ruleset as it now is, or we'll not be 'competitive' as it were. The Queen now has a machinegun in chess. Gotta adapt and hope either that rule gets reversed, or balanced.
Edited to add: Not that I want to shit on his willingness to respond to player activities. This is a step in the right direction and it massively adds to Eve as a whole. It's a great initiative etc. It's just... that step was a REALLY BIG step and it kind of landed in a mire, and now we need to figure out a way to get that boot out of there before it's swallowed up and everything goes horribly wrong.
Samira Kernher:
I dunno if it's a change to the rules, just a thing that 'only works when a DM (CCP) is in charge'. I mean, there was that bit about 'sending a camera drone through a sansha wormhole', or loading up a freighter with explosives and self-destructing it next to Catiz's Avatar and that being reported in the news articles as having done real damage to the vessel.
It's just, like I said, CCP are the DMs. Only they really get to decide when something is and isn't successful. The rest of us can do a bit between ourselves when there's some consent involved, but there's no way we can really expect anyone else to accept it.
Mizhara:
Well, there's issues with that, though. This isn't a tabletop session between friends. It's not cooperative. This is competitive storytelling, with invested enemies on different sides. Consider that PIE are currently siding with the Khanid, as loyalists are wont to do as long as the Kingdom is of the Empire. When the rules suddenly allow for doing things that aren't mechanically balanced through gameplay mechanics, it shifts the playing field. Suddenly things can become uphill for one side or the other, through no fault of their own.
A DM is a fantastic tool/mechanism to use when you're in a cooperative story, because they can then balance out everything for both the story and player satisfaction to go smoothly ahead. Now imagine two parties (or more!) going up against each other and not relying on set rules but DM judgment? That goes sideways fast, because said DM is going to have biases, no two ways around that, and even if they weren't they're prone to fucking up and making mistakes and one side or the other will be given unfair treatment.
Equal rules and level playing fields are VITAL in any competitive play, even if it's just in RP. Vague rules or some players getting different judgment calls than others... well, that's just a recipe for disaster.
Silas Vitalia:
I haven't been able to 'keep up' so I'm just seeing some of the baseliner references from the DM, it read well and was left ambiguous, I really liked how that was handled.
I think as Samira said, a lot of this "baseliner/rp" stuff works quite well, in small does, with a DM in charge, and no one going over-the-top, and things staying relatively 'small scale.' One planet, one arc, not major NPCs, etc
We indeed used to argue endlessly about 'mutual' RP when it came to unverifiable baseliner stuff, and basically as long as everyone was involved was ok with what was going on and it wasn't too cringe or IP-breaking, sure!
So I'm not up on the play by play but from what I've seen it's been a surprisingly active ISD doing this one.
I mean, shit, we would have -killed- for this level of interaction and news posts with the NPCs for fucking years we spent screaming into the void with little coming back :P
Enjoy it, the spotlight doesn't shine on you or your factions that often, have fun with your time in the sun before it moves on to the other side of the cluster and factions.
But anyway looks like a fun arc, well done to everyone involved spending time and energy on this one.
Incidentally does anyone know who is on Mercury/ISD these days? If they are still doing the NDA 'we don't talk about fight club' and they are reading this, hit me up PM please, wanted to talk about some thangs :P
Silas Vitalia:
--- Quote from: Louella Dougans on 27 Oct 2018, 03:05 ---It's interesting to compare the responses to this, with the things that happened during incursions:
http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=1454.0
https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1425167
Back then, the reaction by several of the RP community was a "you are doing it wrong". They did not believe capsuleers had access to "legions of ground troops".
Zoom, nearly 8 years later, and some of those critics are now going whole hog on the idea of deploying ground troops to planets.
So, what, if anything, has changed ? Is it just the level of responsiveness to such assertions by CCP ?
Where, if anywhere, is the limit of plausibility now ?
--- End quote ---
Wow that was a trip down memory lane, yay Kingdom loyal Silas. Reading that thread I think I was trying to nudge nudge wink wink people to walk the walk if they were talking the talk. If they were claiming all sorts of ground troops and weapons, then do your best to show this -in game- with commodities and items that can be used towards that point, within reason.
This way you don't get a week old capsuleer saying they landed 10,000 troops, and if a corporation is spending real ISK on 'troops' you can show the receipts as a representation of dedication of in game assets toward the RP. More chances for SHIPS IN SPACE to be moving items, shot at, money changing hands, in game things.
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