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Author Topic: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?  (Read 11485 times)

Vizage

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #30 on: 12 Sep 2014, 16:12 »

@Mizhara

See this is actually exactly what I'm talking about. But before I begin I just want to hedge the follow in a statement. That being, that this is in no way intended to be an individual critique of any specific player or group of players, but rather a critique of the mindset some members of this community may have. Of course I haven't met many of you and I'm sure you're awesome people.. OK! That being said, my point.


Mizhara touched on it in her post but I think this deserves some more attention.  Namely the bored vets.  Now maybe I've misread something along the way, but I don't think anyway has a problem with veterans who are simply "burnt out" on eve Rp. "Been there, Done that/him/her/all of the above."  Call it what you want, it happens to everyone it's unavoidable and just like the cycle of life it ebbs and flows.

Maybe their waiting for their next big inspiration, maybe they just need a muse, someone who gets them excited to Rp again, or maybe like Mzhara said, they are waiting for something big in the world to change. Either way I don't think anyone has a problem with you chilling in the backseat waiting to shake things up again.

Here's the problem though: Backseat Driving. No one likes it, it's particularly annoying for the driver, and unless the driver is particularly inept (a situation where a little guidance helps one find the road helps) it serves to help no one and only frustrate everyone involved.

Now in case you couldn't follow the metaphor I'm talking about the "Pooh-Pooh'ing" from the peanut gallery. If you want to scoff and laugh while someone steers wildly making mince meat of their Rp, go ahead, somewhere private. But I can honestly tell you from first hand experience the blistering level of YDIW coming from people who then turn and complain "lack of content" is not only painfully ironic but also terrible for fostering  an active and healthy community.

That is not to say there is no room for criticism but if don't even have a dog in the race, leave it to the people who actually Rp right now to decide what/who/where they wanna do it.

EDIT: @Lyn

You do realize the very first point in your linked post.  Point 1).  Makes it exclusive to returning players. Aka Veterans right?

« Last Edit: 12 Sep 2014, 17:04 by Vizage »
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Utsukushi Shi

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #31 on: 12 Sep 2014, 16:47 »

The short version is I agree with Vis. I already wrote the long version in another thread so go there if you care. I'm just stopping in to say something to Jace.

I have an idea I have been kicking around for awhile now and can see a place for you. What I would need from you is the following. Make a corp that is aligned/inspired by the NOH mega. Decide some things in game that you like doing. It seems your less interested in pvp so maybe explo/mission running type stuff. Recruit some people. Get in the game as an existant organization. Find some nice real estate near a highsec/lowsec border to set up shop. Do shit, whatever it is. If you can build an actual corp (not just some vanity corp) I can figure out some "hooks". This is not a short term project. I will need some time to put together connections and figure things out but I think you would like the results. If all that sounds like to much for you to handle than find someone else willing to do the mechanical work and just do the rp side of things.

If this sounds interesting at all feel free to mail me ingame man. Otherwise good luck out there.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #32 on: 12 Sep 2014, 16:52 »

Make a corp that is aligned/inspired by the NOH mega.

PAGING JUROU YUAN, WOULD JUROU YUAN PLEASE DRAG HIS ASS TO TRANQUILITY
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Jace

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #33 on: 12 Sep 2014, 22:17 »

Make a corp that is aligned/inspired by the NOH mega.

PAGING JUROU YUAN, WOULD JUROU YUAN PLEASE DRAG HIS ASS TO TRANQUILITY

Yeah, Jurou and I had discussed Practical bloc possibilities shortly before I left for the summer. There would be lovely irony of old Malcolm-era 'honorable' WHG people running a NOH/CBD thing.

And Utsu, I will think about it and get back to you. I'll be away from my computer for work and a seminar the next 48 hours or so barring five minutes here or there, but I will be back after that.
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Jikahr

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #34 on: 13 Sep 2014, 00:32 »

@Mizra

I'm not sure I agree that changing the game mechanics wouldn't help enhance RP, such as making Pirate factions be able to fight each other as they do in Faction war (although apparently CCP continually shoots the idea down).

However, I really do like the idea of regions being able to declare war on one another. Odelya seems to be starting (or involved in) a civil war between the Khanid Kingdom and the Amarr Empire. It would be nice to be able to add a 'Regional Loyalty' function to the game, so one region could wage war on another region.

As far as pew pew in spaceships being RP, I find the two don't really go together. You can't type and fire your weapons at the same time. You pretty much have to be docked and typing in local.

I once played a text based game called Achaea. One of the advantages of a text based game is that it is pretty much all roleplay. There are no pretty pictures to distract you.

One of the things I liked about that game was you got to choose a 'war cry' and a 'Death cry' for your character. It was a sentence or a paragraph that you wrote before hand, and it would be activated when you went into battle or got killed.

So instead of being a Pirate or a Loyalist and typing 'Yarr! The Black Rabbits we be!" or "Death to Amarr!" as your quarry darts off to a safe spot, you would just hit 'War cry', or perhaps it would be automatically activated in local as soon as you aggress. The Death cry would be the same thing. At the moment you are podded, the game would say something like "Incoming transmission: The last words of the enemy ship are..."Long live the Empress!" or something like that.

I find that EVE doesn't really promote roleplay for some reason. In fact, a lot of players seem to look down on it. I don't understand why. Is it a lot of fun pretending that you are moving around the computer animated simulation of a spaceship, making and losing pretend money?

I think there is another limitation in that a lot of people (myself included  :oops:) don't read up enough on the chronicles and the PF to engage in meaningful EVE RP. I had a Tavern channel once called 'Jita Cantina', and the only customer I had ended up blowing up part of the wall with his blaster pistol. I suppose it was fun and imaginative, but there was nothing else to go on really. No story line.

I wonder if something could be done with the 'walking in stations' animation which seems kind of useless ATM. Before the feature was added, I had imagined something like a boardroom where everyone could meet their corp-mates face to face. Apparently though, we are all alone and can't leave the room because of a contamination risk. If you were looking for a 'Sims' type of game, this would be the place for it.
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Mizhara

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #35 on: 13 Sep 2014, 02:15 »

You don't find your character enforcing their will upon others to be RP? Facing or dealing out consequences for words and actions? I think Eve may very well be the only MMO out there that actually promote RP by marrying PF and game mechanics so tightly together. Whether they identify themselves as roleplayers or not, pretty much everyone out there can be interacted with and taken as an IC interaction.

Every damn player in Eve doing their thing fits within the universe and setting, be it the jita scammer, the nullsec empire builder, the FW pilot orbiting buttons or just trawling for kills, through RvB staging battles for the shits and giggles. They're all IC actions of a capsuleer doing their thing.

I have exactly zero need to interact with someone in local if I'm hunting or being hunted by them. I have a war cry button and it's F1 through F4, depending on my ship and setup. I've got a death cry too, which is spamming my pod escape. Until I see a fighter pilot or ship captain in our times yell "HAVE AT THEE, CUR!" over comms in real life, I'll stick to mine.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #36 on: 13 Sep 2014, 03:09 »

I find that EVE doesn't really promote roleplay for some reason. In fact, a lot of players seem to look down on it. I don't understand why. Is it a lot of fun pretending that you are moving around the computer animated simulation of a spaceship, making and losing pretend money?

CCP and Eve have always had a weird stance on RP, quite opposed to other MMOs. Other MMOs usually try to include at least a bit of RP into their game, by making stuff like RP servers at a bare minimum, and some go as far as to make some animations a bit like dev actors in Eve. Not much mind you, but some include tools and RP props here and there.

And then you have Eve, which has never really claimed the RPG part of the MMORPG title, but at the same time created an incredibly deep lore that has no equal in the MMO milieu, except maybe for MMOs created out of famous licenses that already have a huge lore (Star Wars, Warhammer, etc). I think they never really tried to tie both their game with the universe, and considered their lore to be something besides, good stories illustrating their universe, but not really included in the life of their capsule players.

I think there is another limitation in that a lot of people (myself included  :oops:) don't read up enough on the chronicles and the PF to engage in meaningful EVE RP. I had a Tavern channel once called 'Jita Cantina', and the only customer I had ended up blowing up part of the wall with his blaster pistol. I suppose it was fun and imaginative, but there was nothing else to go on really. No story line.

I didn't read them all. Maybe half of them (the ones that I got interested in), which is already something I guess, but over 6 years of time it's not much per day as a ratio actually.

I don't think chronicles now are the primary lore material, and certainly not the most accessible as well. Half of them are chronicles like "the precious tableau" which do barely make sense or are so obscure in their meaning, or just so specific that they will never really make you learn something about the universe.

Even that Black Mountain series was extremely obscure and over its 10 chronicles, you actually learn 90% of the stuff you would like to learn on SoCT in the 9th chronicle which is a documentary that actually explains. As for Sanctuary, you learn barely a thing about them even if they are like half of the story protagonists. The rest is... well, obscure. It's a nice series, but it's not very instructive.

The chronicles that are actually the most informative are the oldest ones actually, that were presented as summaries about sub factions or entities (CONCORD, etc). Those are real infodumps, but were very short since they were among the first writings about the eve universe. Now you just have to open the eve wiki to find all of that writing down here. And much more.

Actually I think that all the core articles on evelopedia are actually where you want to look at when you want to know more about PF. Chronicles are either a good complement (chained to the sky, that kind of chronicle), or just artistic licence (the precious tableau, etc), or somewhere in between.

I wonder if something could be done with the 'walking in stations' animation which seems kind of useless ATM. Before the feature was added, I had imagined something like a boardroom where everyone could meet their corp-mates face to face. Apparently though, we are all alone and can't leave the room because of a contamination risk. If you were looking for a 'Sims' type of game, this would be the place for it.

I'm pretty sure they gave up on WiS especially because their tech is not able to handle several avatars at the same place at a time.


EDIT: @Lyn

You do realize the very first point in your linked post.  Point 1).  Makes it exclusive to returning players. Aka Veterans right?


Wasn't the point you were all making that veterans do nothing to improve the situation and spend their time complaining ? Wasn't point 1) about making them moving their asses to actually do something ?

You don't find your character enforcing their will upon others to be RP? Facing or dealing out consequences for words and actions? I think Eve may very well be the only MMO out there that actually promote RP by marrying PF and game mechanics so tightly together. Whether they identify themselves as roleplayers or not, pretty much everyone out there can be interacted with and taken as an IC interaction.

Every damn player in Eve doing their thing fits within the universe and setting, be it the jita scammer, the nullsec empire builder, the FW pilot orbiting buttons or just trawling for kills, through RvB staging battles for the shits and giggles. They're all IC actions of a capsuleer doing their thing.

I have exactly zero need to interact with someone in local if I'm hunting or being hunted by them. I have a war cry button and it's F1 through F4, depending on my ship and setup. I've got a death cry too, which is spamming my pod escape. Until I see a fighter pilot or ship captain in our times yell "HAVE AT THEE, CUR!" over comms in real life, I'll stick to mine.

You find that shooting down capsuleers in space prove something or enforce your will upon them ? I have always had a difficult time with that notion I have to admit. Especially since none of our actions have any meaning on the universe of New Eden itself since CCP carefully kept us separated from the NPC lore. We spend our time shooting the hell out of each other in an enclosed environment.

Well, maybe I got tainted by my character views, or maybe the contrary, or maybe both, but what if you shoot someone down ? He will just come back and the only thing you will have achieved is to make the character angrier.

I don't find the link between words and action in this game, unless you are playing the hormone usual boast "i'm stronger than you and you will end up on my killboard yarr". How does shooting someone down makes you right about a point you made on the IGS, or where ever else ? That concept is completely alien to me.

The only situation were I can actually imagine that ingame actions can have meaning is when both parties of RPers are understanding each other with a clear cut storyline involved where people shoot down a tower or whatever, and make up stuff about what it implies for their crews, planets, factions, etc.
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Mizhara

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #37 on: 13 Sep 2014, 03:24 »

It's not about being right. It's about consequence. Same reason one hunts down Nappy or wardec a corp until it's broke or disbanded. Take away their ability to enforce -their- will you've just gone infinitely deeper than any other MMO is capable of doing, in terms of RP. You restrict their movement, their wallets, their options (or they do the same to you) and in the end you can enforce your will upon them. You can free or capture slaves, as with Nappy. You can do all manner of things, all encapsulated neatly in the one button named "undock".

There's little impact we can have on New Eden itself, but we can have a damn big impact on each other. Through gameplay I've been part of breaking apart corporations and had corporations get broken in turn. I've participated in the quite literal exchange of a thousand Amarrians for a million slaves, with the resulting fallout.

If there's ever been something to drive RP in Eve, it's been that undock button. The chat channels are tangential at best.

You'll never be "right" in New Eden. There'll -always- be competing viewpoints that have relevance to someone and this isn't a debate simulator anyway. A good war is the natural extension of all diplomacy and debate and in Eve we have everything we need to go from disagreements through discourse and to a violent resolution of conflicts.
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Jace

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #38 on: 13 Sep 2014, 07:35 »

Now in case you couldn't follow the metaphor I'm talking about the "Pooh-Pooh'ing" from the peanut gallery. If you want to scoff and laugh while someone steers wildly making mince meat of their Rp, go ahead, somewhere private. But I can honestly tell you from first hand experience the blistering level of YDIW coming from people who then turn and complain "lack of content" is not only painfully ironic but also terrible for fostering  an active and healthy community.

Despite my griping in the first half of this thread, I have to agree with this. Being frustrated is one thing, but YDIW'ing everyone else left and right is beyond unhelpful and heads straight into asshattery. Helping people become aware of lore is one thing, but trying to actively tear down the roleplaying habits of others is something else. I may not like how certain people decide to roleplay or handle their characters, but so frackin' what? If they are enjoying themselves and getting meaningful RP out of it, it is nobody else's business. I do have to admit that the YDIW has been my most significant annoyance when it comes to the roleplaying of my alts that are more 'fun' characters and less 'srs bsnss' than Jace & Co.

And at the risk of using this thread as "Jace's self-awareness moments," I also think trying to be 'so srs' all the time with Jace and my other Caldari characters may also be part of what has stilted me. The amount of times I have enjoyed RPing with Jace and my other Caldari characters in the last couple years is much less than my other characters where I am less concerned about taking everything extremely seriously. That does not mean being overtly stupid or uncharacteristic with the other characters, but actually allowing myself to have characters that are less grimdark.
« Last Edit: 13 Sep 2014, 07:38 by Jace »
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #39 on: 13 Sep 2014, 08:24 »

It's not about being right. It's about consequence. Same reason one hunts down Nappy or wardec a corp until it's broke or disbanded. Take away their ability to enforce -their- will you've just gone infinitely deeper than any other MMO is capable of doing, in terms of RP. You restrict their movement, their wallets, their options (or they do the same to you) and in the end you can enforce your will upon them. You can free or capture slaves, as with Nappy. You can do all manner of things, all encapsulated neatly in the one button named "undock".

There's little impact we can have on New Eden itself, but we can have a damn big impact on each other. Through gameplay I've been part of breaking apart corporations and had corporations get broken in turn. I've participated in the quite literal exchange of a thousand Amarrians for a million slaves, with the resulting fallout.

If there's ever been something to drive RP in Eve, it's been that undock button. The chat channels are tangential at best.

You'll never be "right" in New Eden. There'll -always- be competing viewpoints that have relevance to someone and this isn't a debate simulator anyway. A good war is the natural extension of all diplomacy and debate and in Eve we have everything we need to go from disagreements through discourse and to a violent resolution of conflicts.

Yes, you said it yourself : it is encapsulated in the undock button. For that your enemy will actually have to undock. And for what ? Pew pewing in space in the name of your ideals ? That's exactly my point. It makes absolutely zero sense to go battle outside with guns when words are ten times more powerful, if not thousand times more powerful when it's about immortal demi gods we are speaking about.

It makes sense to go shoot someone like Nappy, indeed, if there is something else involved (slaves, FW planets, etc). However that's precisely because Nappy is actually creating that RP opportunities, taking the time to acquire slaves, and undock to create artificially created RP conflict. Don't tell me it isn't artificial, because it is, the same way it is in other MMOs. I can agree on the fact that you will always have an easier time to provide consequences heavy gameplay in Eve than in other MMOs, but eventually the stories we tell around those things are precisely artificial.

There is no such thing as a gameplay mechanic behind slavery. If Nappy takes out his slaves and his in his own individual wardec-able corp, it's to offer his opponents opportunities to fight, not for any other reason, much like I can do the same thing in other MMOs, though with more awkward tools.

The same can be said about the conflict between CVA and UK. UK came to fight CVA in Providence just because CVA said "we are amarrian and want to reclaim that place for great justice !". They used the tools the game offers (which, again, are very good tools to provide consequences) to tell their stories, but otherwise it would just have been a classic conflict between 2 alliances for a bit of land in nullsec, which is barely RP, just RP in the sense that it's about capsuleers fighting against other capsuleers for a piece of land and resources.

What I mean, is that yes, that undock button, corporations, resources, can be a huge stake in wars between non RP players, or more generally, ICly, a story about capsuleers against other capsuleers for isk. But as soon as you as a RPer start to introduce other reasons that are tied to non game mechanics like the NPC lore, your allegiance to some faction or ideology, you just make up stuff that has no tangential basis ingame other than "this tower is the beacon of the fight against slavery".

Well don't get me wrong, it's good and all, it provides RP, and conflict, but that's about entity RP, not character RP, or at least not directly. The real stuff happening to your character will happen either through your own writings and stories, or either through the IGS or ingame channels. And I think both are complementary, but my emphasis has always been on character RP since I don't see the point in playing an RP conflict in space when there is no character behind.

Also, nobody said that you have to be right or wrong about things in Eve. But eventually, my point is that if you have an IC argument with someone, you will start to break his corporation, his wallet, and whatever else down. So what ? How does that makes your character right ? How does it even prove his point ? The only thing where it becomes interesting, as I said above, is when some specific RP resources are made up and involved, like slaves, etc. Well yes, they are completely made up, and that's okay.
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Mizhara

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #40 on: 13 Sep 2014, 08:36 »

There's nothing made up about several freighterloads of slaves. They're right there and an in-game asset. And again, it's not about making one side or the other "being right". It's about conflict between characters and groups of characters that are irreconcilable. Words are completely and utterly powerless when you have diametrically opposite ideologies clashing together. The RP comes to the inevitable conclusion when the two entities clash together and the issue is resolved when one bows before the might of the other, or one side becomes irrelevant through losing their space, their resources or will to fight on.

These are defining moments of victory and defeat that will affect your character, especially when your character invests this much time and effort into their cause, their motivations and goals. If you're nor fighting it yourself, you might be bankrolling an offensive or cranking out ships for a replacement program, effectively winning the war for your side. You might just be a scout or maybe an ambassador taking care of communication, whatever.

No matter how you swing it, it'll be a goal to strive for and either fail or succeed at and that's something that'll have a character impact. Just yammering on the IGS isn't exactly going to be a lifechanger or achieve anything.
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Vizage

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #41 on: 13 Sep 2014, 10:43 »




EDIT: @Lyn

You do realize the very first point in your linked post.  Point 1).  Makes it exclusive to returning players. Aka Veterans right?


Wasn't the point you were all making that veterans do nothing to improve the situation and spend their time complaining ? Wasn't point 1) about making them moving their asses to actually do something ?


Yeah, and seeing how you go no replies, promotes my point that they are not as active, not your point, that your single request somehow makes Veterans active.

For those still continuing to say that vets do not do anything, or try not to do anything, this is just one of many examples that got no answers. Well I was not playing when I wrote that, and was really ready to try something again. How silly and naive of me.

This more or less..
« Last Edit: 13 Sep 2014, 10:49 by Vizage »
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #42 on: 13 Sep 2014, 11:34 »

There's nothing made up about several freighterloads of slaves. They're right there and an in-game asset. And again, it's not about making one side or the other "being right". It's about conflict between characters and groups of characters that are irreconcilable. Words are completely and utterly powerless when you have diametrically opposite ideologies clashing together. The RP comes to the inevitable conclusion when the two entities clash together and the issue is resolved when one bows before the might of the other, or one side becomes irrelevant through losing their space, their resources or will to fight on.

These are defining moments of victory and defeat that will affect your character, especially when your character invests this much time and effort into their cause, their motivations and goals. If you're nor fighting it yourself, you might be bankrolling an offensive or cranking out ships for a replacement program, effectively winning the war for your side. You might just be a scout or maybe an ambassador taking care of communication, whatever.

No matter how you swing it, it'll be a goal to strive for and either fail or succeed at and that's something that'll have a character impact. Just yammering on the IGS isn't exactly going to be a lifechanger or achieve anything.

The freighters and slaves are not made up. Their usefulness, their purpose, and their source at times is completely made up. It's the same than in any other MMO, where you can buy props and valuable things and put them at stake for pure RP purposes, albeit more or less awkwardly since eve mechanics are of course a lot more oriented toward a gameplay providing meaningful consequences.

And again, I never said that it's about making one side or the other right. For a character however, proving that one is right is generally what the character will do. Well usually I think that when people believe in something that clashes with someone else's beliefs, that guy might uh... think he is right and the other one is wrong no ? That's what half of every conflict is about ingame.

You keep talking about entities with a lot of in space things at stake, but that's far from the only kind of conflict that happen in Eve.

Well you see, that's where I do not necessarily disagree with your resource centric view, but I think that there are other means to win a conflict than just crushing your opponent. That's one of the possible outcomes only. But some people just don't want to accept that. They do not want to accept that there are things that do not require anything to be at stake ingame ICly.

And yes, I have achieved fat least as much as on the IGS or on social venues than in space.


EDIT : I would even dare to add that actually doing things like Nappy ingame, or promoting in space conflict by bringing valuable things at stake with made up RP over them is actually a good way to keep your enemy fed and interested. Even if you beat him down, as long as the players behind will have fun, that will actually bring the opposite outcome and strengthen his will to continue, even by changing his tactics to limit his losses. That's actually great since it proves to be a virtuous circle where the more players participate in something and generate fun for both parties, the more they will be interested to keep it going ! But ICly it's soon to become a catastrophe. A bit like the eternal neverending FW or Sansha incursions. A total fail for all parties involved. ICly of course.

So, that's actually the good way to go OOCly (and the way I would always favor over any other one), but ICly, that's all but efficient and fighting head on is not always the best solution, unless you are sure to crush them so bad that you will disgust them to continue, break them down, strip them out of everything and maybe even make them unsub. Now then, ICly, you will have won against someone by achieving that. But is that really healthy OOCly on the long run ? Probably not.




EDIT: @Lyn

You do realize the very first point in your linked post.  Point 1).  Makes it exclusive to returning players. Aka Veterans right?


Wasn't the point you were all making that veterans do nothing to improve the situation and spend their time complaining ? Wasn't point 1) about making them moving their asses to actually do something ?


Yeah, and seeing how you go no replies, promotes my point that they are not as active, not your point, that your single request somehow makes Veterans active.

For those still continuing to say that vets do not do anything, or try not to do anything, this is just one of many examples that got no answers. Well I was not playing when I wrote that, and was really ready to try something again. How silly and naive of me.

This more or less..

And since they are not active, do they complain that much about the state of RP ? Even here ? I maybe count one or two like that, but then ? You can add me to the lot if you really want to, but if you all say that there are so many RPers ingame to be found, aren't those one or two vets a bit like a drop in the ocean ?

I seriously don't understand you guys. On one hand you complain that veterans spend their time "whining about the state of RP ingame while doing nothing and that's because RP is at a lull", and then tell that there are plenty of RPers left to continue having a good source of RP material.

Make up your mind ?
« Last Edit: 13 Sep 2014, 11:42 by Lyn Farel »
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Arista Shahni

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #43 on: 13 Sep 2014, 11:52 »

All RP is made up now, we have no GMs.

... nothing to add to that, really.


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Charles Cambridge Schmidt

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Re: Why Did I Come Back To EVE?
« Reply #44 on: 13 Sep 2014, 11:56 »

A lot of really good posts in this thread. A ton of my grievances have been addressed by a lot of people already, though I'll quote out the points I really do enjoy first. My own points will come later, blah blah.

If you want to scoff and laugh while someone steers wildly making mince meat of their Rp, go ahead, somewhere private. But I can honestly tell you from first hand experience the blistering level of YDIW coming from people who then turn and complain "lack of content" is not only painfully ironic but also terrible for fostering  an active and healthy community.

That is not to say there is no room for criticism but if don't even have a dog in the race, leave it to the people who actually Rp right now to decide what/who/where they wanna do it.

This, first but not foremost. I've seen time and time again older and more veteran members of this community (and in other MMO communities) picking apart some of the newer RPers in Summit for either something they simply got incorrectly or something that wasn't just feasible. I don't believe that it's our job as roleplayers to police everyone and tell them how awfully they have their own character incorrect. One example that sticks out to me: when Farsiris first attempted to speak in the Summit, he mentioned that he wasn't very wealthy as his parents were miners who were opposing ORE in the area. This, to me, sounded pleasant. Someone probed into how they were mining, and Farsiris mentioned something about Ventures.

Now, immediately, people started accusing him of either lying or being wrong about his own experiences without attempting to work with him to create any sort of welcoming atmosphere. He didn't say that his parents owned Ventures or even piloted them. It could have been a lend-lease program, they could have been crew... the list goes on and on. My point about all of this is that if we're to experience new roleplay and embrace new opportunities and assist new players further into the already massive community, for fucks sake give them a little wiggle room. I'm still in shambles from the time a small group of people systematically picked me apart for claiming I'd spent the little ISK I started with (5k) on expensive wiring for Charles' house. Now, with proper RP knowledge, I could have easily just said it was "expensive designer shit," because Quafe costs ISK. You know, the thing that Baseliners can work years and years for only to just get 10?

Morwen also hit the nail on the head.
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People are bored but they also are looking for things to do. If you build it they will fucking come. (Buckets)
and
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If you want to kickstart something, say in the Summit or OOC (or both) that you're going to go to X channel for drinks or whatever and ask if people are interested in tagging along. Usually people will respond positively and show up. Hell, the people who IDLE in those channels will probably participate once they see activity.


Nothing much to add to these aside from the fact I idle in several channels and, if someone happens to start something, I hop in. Most of the time I'm not actively looking for RP (due to in-game nonsense or otherwise).

I know I can't say much, given the fact I'd just fall into the category of "I WANT IT NOW BUT NOT NOW ENOUGH TO MAKE IT ON MY OWN." I am planning something, though. It probably won't be too successful, but I'm planning something none-the-less.
Logged
Drones are pretty cool, I guess.
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