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[Rodj Blake]

I guess I'll have to change my name to Eyeless McBlinderson

[kalaratiri]

 

I was wondering how you missed the entire second post.

[Merdaneth]

I guess I'll have to change my name to Eyeless McBlinderson

You'r too much into your role.

[Esna Pitoojee]

While the ideas laid out are welcome hugely welcome, I have this nagging feeling that they're underestimating the will of players to find some way to produce reward with as little risk as possible.

[hellgremlin]

So... still no real victories to achieve? Hmm

[Graelyn]

We still have the original goal that we haven't managed to fulfill. You know what it is.

[BloodBird]

It depends of a lot of things. It depends of the ships involved. Not long ago I killed a thorax in my vengeance without any effort while being also aggroed by a crow. It was easy, shoot the drones, then take care of the thorax at point blank range to get under the guns.

Against a rupture however, I would have had serious issues, mostly due to neuts.

A Thorax is an easy kill, generally (Poor wolf only has 2 mids, no web for me!) but a Rupture or Arbitrator is another story altogether... which are the 2 cruisers everyone flies.

If this holds true, then things really has changed. The last engagement I had with a Vengeance in a Thorax was an easy victory for me - get in range, point web guns drones, wait for a bit... pop. Loot. Onwards with life.

If the Rupture and Arbitrator are pretty much the only favor of the month ships left and the rest are obsolete, well... I don't know what to think of that, honestly.

[Milo Caman]

It depends of a lot of things. It depends of the ships involved. Not long ago I killed a thorax in my vengeance without any effort while being also aggroed by a crow. It was easy, shoot the drones, then take care of the thorax at point blank range to get under the guns.

Against a rupture however, I would have had serious issues, mostly due to neuts.

The advent of oversized ASB AFs and Frigates has actually resulted in a counter for decked out antifrigate cruisers that rely on Neuts.
Granted, they're not an easy win, but at least it's now possible to deal with Ruptures and such in small frigate swarms without taking horrendous losses.

[Lyn Farel]

It depends of a lot of things. It depends of the ships involved. Not long ago I killed a thorax in my vengeance without any effort while being also aggroed by a crow. It was easy, shoot the drones, then take care of the thorax at point blank range to get under the guns.

Against a rupture however, I would have had serious issues, mostly due to neuts.

A Thorax is an easy kill, generally (Poor wolf only has 2 mids, no web for me!) but a Rupture or Arbitrator is another story altogether... which are the 2 cruisers everyone flies.

If this holds true, then things really has changed. The last engagement I had with a Vengeance in a Thorax was an easy victory for me - get in range, point web guns drones, wait for a bit... pop. Loot. Onwards with life.

If the Rupture and Arbitrator are pretty much the only favor of the month ships left and the rest are obsolete, well... I don't know what to think of that, honestly.

They have always been to my knowledge since at least the nanonerf and NOS nerf. Thoraxes, as good as they are (I use them a lot too), are better against cruisers than frigates. Though of course it works against frigs, it is dangerous since you don't have neuts to help you shut down their tank, engines, or even their weapons for these that need cap...

An AB vengeance can tank a web hurricane without neuts if you orbit at 500m (I tried that, it worked, even if not for too long and ofc, only a single webbed hurricane). I noticed that I can still make the tank run even against 1 small neut, even if it becomes very, very painful (lol cap regen bonus...). Once I also killed an arbitrator that only had one small neut. It was painful but it worked. That's what the vengeance is good at, killing or tackling things bigger than it is. I wouldnt try to engage a thorax in a blarpy or another similar AF without an active tank, tbh. May work, but sounds dangerous.

It depends of a lot of things. It depends of the ships involved. Not long ago I killed a thorax in my vengeance without any effort while being also aggroed by a crow. It was easy, shoot the drones, then take care of the thorax at point blank range to get under the guns.

Against a rupture however, I would have had serious issues, mostly due to neuts.

The advent of oversized ASB AFs and Frigates has actually resulted in a counter for decked out antifrigate cruisers that rely on Neuts.
Granted, they're not an easy win, but at least it's now possible to deal with Ruptures and such in small frigate swarms without taking horrendous losses.

Yeah now, just take a hawk and go kill neut cruisers happily I guess. >.>

Or anything else for that matters anyway. They dont even have a counter now.  They are superior to almost everything of their size and T1 cruisers too.

[Milo Caman]

Or anything else for that matters anyway. They dont even have a counter now.  They are superior to almost everything of their size and T1 cruisers too.

Eh, catching them in-between reload cycles, or using anything that has high Alpha will generally result in the Death of said Hawk. I've actually had some extremely close fights with Incursus tag-teams against Hawks + ASB Merlins where we've (nearly) come out on top simply because we're not quite so reliant on cap boosters. They're not quite the overpowered auto-winning module that people tend to paint them as.

[Lyn Farel]

In very small grops / solo they seem to be...

[Shaalira]

I was gone all summer, which meant I had missed out on the announcement of new modules.  The day I returned, my corp picked me up again and had me travel to some remote region of Metropolis where the Minmatar were apparently being overrun by a nullsec horde.

So, I first ran into ASBs in space without knowing a thing about them.

My initial encounter was with a Merlin with an ASB.  I was thinking that this guy had an incredible tank, maybe drugs and boosters.  Fortunately, I myself was in a dual-rep Incursus.  We blasted each other for five minutes or so, and when he had to reload his ASB, he melted fast.

The next encounter was with an ASB cyclone which was tackled by a squad of us in t/d condors, with myself in a comet for DPS.  It was caught off the gate by a handful of frigates and ended up just tanking us until the ASB had to reload.  Then it died.

After that engagement, I finally learned what ASBs were.  I then watched as corpies in dual-sebo thrashers started alpha'ing ASB frigates one at a time.  Pop, pop pop.

ASBs can be extremely useful and potent.  But even in solo or small-gang situations, they're not wholly dominant.  I think they're still working themselves into the meta, and pilots will eventually learn how to plan for and deal with them.

[Gesakaarin]

I don't think single ASB fits are that bad to deal with. The real problem is when they have a second ASB to cover them while the first one is reloading.

[Ken]

I've used MASBs on frigs quite a bit and have toyed around with dual MASB fits on frigs and dessies as well.  They can be very useful, making them a viable tanking choice, but they are not by any means a win button.

[BloodBird]

I've used MASBs on frigs quite a bit and have toyed around with dual MASB fits on frigs and dessies as well.  They can be very useful, making them a viable tanking choice, but they are not by any means a win button.

Frigate 1v1 - how to stop dual-ASB fit?