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Author Topic: Why ?  (Read 5537 times)

Ava Starfire

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #15 on: 16 Aug 2012, 09:11 »

Why is it a bad thing for people to be IC 'stomped' for opinions they express IC?

Frankly we don't see enough hostility as it is, and the IGS resembles more of a group hug these days than people actually getting angry and constantly fighting and trying to destroy each other like they should be.

I want to destroy all of you. Just sayin.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #16 on: 16 Aug 2012, 09:12 »

Why is it a bad thing for people to be IC 'stomped' for opinions they express IC?

Frankly we don't see enough hostility as it is, and the IGS resembles more of a group hug these days than people actually getting angry and constantly fighting and trying to destroy each other like they should be.

Au contraire, that is a wonderful thing. I was probably unclear but my point is actually about the predominance of what is OOCly expected on the IGS. And me too, would have liked to see more clean-cut, honest and "popularity unbiased" fighting between parties with people caring much more for their ideals like real partisans than for their IC/OOC social group.


I think the majority of people that get lambasted on IGS has to do more with what they say than whom they are.

Kim and Valoron, for example, constantly say things that are very politically (if not racially) charged and they do it on purpose. I love the characters from an OOC perspective, but from an IC perspective they are saying things in order to get people to respond the way they do.

I would argue that both are true, imo they get flak for :

1) what they say (which is fine)
2) how far from western culture/morality the viewpoint is (which is not so fine)
3) their IC popularity (which is fine)
4) their OOC popularity (which is not so fine)

But apparently it would seem that we are not a lot to see it that way.



To the OP though. I feel like this thread is not actually about those other characters being disliked IC - but is in fact another thread about you having issues with roleplay. Because of this I am hesitant to take this seriously.

Of course, Lyn is not to be taken seriously. :roll:

No, the difference lies in the fact that I don't have any issues with roleplay (that's quite insulting btw), but with some (very human) trends in the roleplay in question.

Your supporting point is that Minmatar extremists don't get any flak, which is patently untrue. I've seen several threads with several pages of heated argument between extremists and moderates on the Minmatar side.

Aside, I'd be willing to wager that most of the players you've mentioned play their characters this way on purpose, and intend for these sorts of responses. That's my guess though.

Well our experiences must be quite different, then. Usually from mine, speaking about (insorum) genocides, killing holders, or just launching a full war just to get a piece of rock back is somehow considered "ok" due to :rotten casus belli: (insert slavery or cultural traditions here). Where things like slavery for example, are completely less forgiving. That is the discrepancies I am not very fond of.

I am sorry that somehow you decided that "my version" is patently untrue. I am not going to play to cheap shots contests and start bitching about how older than you I am in the game and dismiss your opinion as irrelevant, because that would just be utterly stupid. I just expect the same amount of decency from everyone else. :/

Also, I 100% agree with your last part. Thank you everyone for your answers since it helped me see better and get different perspectives on the matter. I understand better what pushes people to do so in some of these few examples. Sorry for opening such a thread, apparently it was not very wise.
« Last Edit: 16 Aug 2012, 09:15 by Lyn Farel »
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Rodj Blake

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #17 on: 16 Aug 2012, 09:19 »

The IGS hasn't been the same since Gaius Kador left  :cry:
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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #18 on: 16 Aug 2012, 09:25 »

lallara zhuul

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #19 on: 16 Aug 2012, 09:32 »

The Grand Inquisitor left because of TEA.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #20 on: 16 Aug 2012, 11:10 »

Ok, so I have thought a lot about this and I think I am going in the wrong direction. I may have looked unstable to you recently and it may well be the case. It does not change my feelings on the matter nor my opinions, but I also think that I have come to a point where I started to become very misanthropic about everything and everyone, focusing on their flaws to an insane degree while I have been guilty of starting to behave like a bitter ass, no matter how I feel or what I think, online or RL either.

I am often unable to understand the way people think (or the contrary, dunno, may be mutual too) and this is probably no surprise to you. I just tend to find it irrational as hell, and it often is, but also often not always, due to :misunderstandings: and the worst of it, I always confuse both cases. And I bet it leaked out in Lyn's RP since the beginning, considering that Lyn is on some points a gross hyperbole of some of my personnal traits (but not only fortunately, she has her own positive and negative sides). Maybe somehow it is not actually me that bled over ICly through the character, like it can be often expected, but the contrary, the character itself bleeding over OOCly on me.

I may be just disgusted of a lot of things in eve RP but I also tended to make it blow out of proportion and created storms in kettles since I decided to leave. Moreover, I have no right to continue to argue on things I am not even part anymore since then. I also have held the philosophy that everything that happens IC can be explained in a way or another and that every character, be his/her actions be stretched or not, are perfectly credible and explainable, which means that I've always made a very clear separation between IC and OOC and never really argued about anything that happened IC on OOC medias/threads. To be fair, to a point where I always considered debating on controversial things rather unproductive, and that all of this OOC should be argued ICly instead, because if the lore is vague, it is maybe also for a purpose, to allow discussion and debate.

Until recently. I guess something broke irreparably and made me do things I normally never do (like here).

I considered that since Graelyn decided to lock the last thread down - leaving it all but finished, unresolved - I had to open another one with a different approach. Which was dumb and proved to be so, even if I learned some new things and views out of it.

So yes, I tried to be reasonably honest with myself and want to apologize for whatever I may have caused. Not that I changed my mind on a lot of things, but I happen to think that I started to lose my principles and everything related. Maybe I just lost myself on the way the last month. I know that I have always been more or less distant from a lot of bad blood that happened over the years, just being happy to RP here and there, never really willing to cause drama, and I am starting to hate myself for stopping doing so and actually causing it. And at the same time destroying all the relations I have with the backstage community.

I think my greatest mistake was assuming recently that everything had to be perfect, which is obviously stupid and can only cause bad blood and accumulated frustration and bitterness.

It is time for me to fix that.

You can lock the thread if you want.
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Seriphyn

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #21 on: 16 Aug 2012, 11:18 »

Lyn, yeah. I sort of gave up on the assumption that things about the RP community had to be perfect as well.
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Jev North

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #22 on: 16 Aug 2012, 11:25 »

Everybody wants a better (imaginary) world. Everybody's definition of "better" is different.
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Ulphus

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #23 on: 16 Aug 2012, 13:45 »


I extracted a WW2 quote for use when writing the Hitchhiker's Guide ...

Douglas? Is that you?
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Ken

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #24 on: 16 Aug 2012, 13:50 »


I extracted a WW2 quote for use when writing the Hitchhiker's Guide ...

Douglas? Is that you?

Would that I was this world might be a funnier place.
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Hamish Grayson

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #25 on: 16 Aug 2012, 13:50 »

Why are characters like Seriphyn, Bastian Valoron, or Diana Kim, Rodj Blake almost universally despised, except maybe by their side ?

Nobody likes Diana Kim.
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Tiberious Thessalonia

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #26 on: 16 Aug 2012, 13:55 »

Also I dont think anyone OOC hates Seriphyn or Rodj, for instance.  IC, certaintly.
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Gottii

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #27 on: 16 Aug 2012, 14:38 »

The IGS hasn't been the same since Gaius Kador left  :cry:


Man so this.  I miss being accused of doing nothing but banging on my bongo drums.

Also, I love Diana, et al.  IGS needs more demagogues and rabble-rousers.  An MMO game about peace, love, compromise and humanity living in harmony would be boring. Not to mention unrealistic.   

Also, Rodj is literally my EVE RP All-Star.  Nothing but love for that guy OOC.

The answer to "why does everyone hate these characters" is most likely "because they want to adhere to the values their PF says they would and that often means they will be hated IC, and they dont care".
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Jade Constantine

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #28 on: 16 Aug 2012, 14:41 »

This is a question now that I have asked myself for a long time and I decided to share it when I read today the thread on the IGS where Bastian got stomped by the whole mob once again for being a politician.

Why are characters like Seriphyn, Bastian Valoron, or Diana Kim, Rodj Blake almost universally despised, except maybe by their side ? Is that too much factionnalism or bias ? I thought it could be, but they are nothing compared to a lot of other characters. Is that because they are out of the loop OOCly ? Is that about IC/OOC bleedovers ? I mean, why more than anyone else speaking on the IGS ? I mean, why all the bloodthirsty minmatar barely get any flak everytime they open their mouths ?

I have my own ideas on the subject, but I would be interested to hear your thoughts about it, because to be honest, it almost makes no sense to me.


I guess its because at some level the Minmatar are the "heroes" of Eve Online. The plucky underdogs fighting against a corrupt space empire that institutionalized slavery and theocratic dictatorship. Its like saying in the context of Star Wars - why is everyone so down on the empire and why does the rebellion get all the breaks?

Would take some pretty imaginative play to make an Amarrian-sided RP voice that sounded sympathetic really. Some players have managed it (in my experience) but its difficult.

 
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Khloe

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Re: Why ?
« Reply #29 on: 16 Aug 2012, 15:53 »

I think Lyn unlocked the [bittervet] achievement!
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