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[Hamish Grayson]

Yes, all five thousand of them, out of many billions.

I don't think the Intaki population was so large as to require billions of heads of State or high ranking military officers.

Actually, this was all my own fiction-writing, and has no mention in PF ever.

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=29-06-09

"Look, you guys had your chance and blew it," the teacher said to him. "You may think the Caldari should go the same way and simply surrender to the unstoppable might of the Gallente Federation."

It was a vicious insult to Sheeran's ancestry [Jen-Mei], and he made to defend it, but Cromwell silenced him by saying, "Stop nattering about the ones who dared fight back."

[Seriphyn]

I wasn't referring to heads of state or military officers, but those exiled. Out of the greater Intaki population, those exiled was minute.

Also, I think Cromwell is simply being tactlessly sarcastic, figure-of-speech. It's very British to do that, and in fact, the character of Cromwell is very British in his mannerisms and whatnot, something I found endearing about the chronicle. The line is "voluntarily joined", and there is little to suggest any violent conquest. It's one extremely opinionated character versus the history.

It's not the big, bad Federation anymore, after all. Just in secret.

[Hamish Grayson]

Hak'len is technically fan-fic so I don't think there is anyway to do it wrong.   

I will say that Herko was fascinated by the tera forming of Caldari Prime and I suspect that his reasoning for the Civire and Deties being able to eat from the Kresh plant had to do with genetic modification of the colonist so they could survive on Caldari prime.   Moreover, the Civire and Deties only consume these things during ceremonies and customs that the average Achurians likely don't share. 

 Still it's reasonable to assume that somebody markets a pill, patch or injection that would neutralize whatever poison the Civire and Deteis naturally neutralize.     For example, if a Achurian married a Civire he or she might want to share in their spouse's religious traditions and I'm sure some corp would want to make money from that.

[Hamish Grayson]

I wasn't referring to heads of state or military officers, but those exiled. Out of the greater Intaki population, those exiled was minute.

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=aug01-01

The social uproar following the Caldari departure from the Federation touched the Intakis deeply and many of them sympathized and even supported the Caldari - the yoke of the cumbersome Federation bureaucracy lay as heavily on the Intakis as the Caldari. Understandably the Gallenteans were forced to deal harshly with these elements to prevent a complete fragmentation of the young Federation.

Apart from a few minor uprisings the Federation quickly subdued the Intakis. Those deemed the biggest threat to the stability of the regime were arrested and exiled.

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=oct01-01

When the Caldari broke from the Gallente Federation many Intakis that sympathized with their cause were exiled from the Federation. The most militant of those went over to the Caldari and asked to join them in their fight against the Federation. These were all experienced military personnel and thus very valuable in the early stages of the war when veterans were few and far between.

There was an actual threat of the Intaki leaving the Federation, the leaders of the movement were arrested and exiled and many of them wear in the military prior to their arrest and  had extensive combat experience.   Junior officers are not a threat - these were Admirals and Generals.  I think it is reasonable to assume that the civilian section of the exiles are equally as important such as members of the Intaki Assembly, captians of industry and perhaps the odd Idama or two.

[Seriphyn]

Yep, under the Ultra-Nationalist government, which has long been buried under history. Now, the Federation is more centrist/moderate. Funnily enough, the same way the Amarr learnt restraint with the Jove and Minmatar Rebellion, the Federation learnt it with the Caldari secession.

You're forgetting that "Gallente society is in a constant state of flux, vigorous, vibrant and progressive". The early Federation was dominated by the Gallente, and during the first war, the Intaki and Mannar were still weak. The Mannar and Intaki eventually flexed "their political and economic muscles" to become full members of the Federation.

What I mean to say is, is that the Federation of two-hundred years ago is not the same as it is now, the same way the modern United States is not the same United States when it was first formed.

This is an important point to remember, IMO. The Federation no longer oppresses its subjects, because these former objects of suppression are now major components of said Federation. There is a distinction of course with the Intaki solar system itself, but ethnic Intakis are going to all over the Federation, varying from traditional to Gallenteanized.

[Hamish Grayson]

That has nothing to do with how the Achurians viewed the Federation a hundred years ago.

[Alain Colcer]

The fact that the Federation was violently suppressing the Jen-Mei succession movement, arresting and exiling the Intaki heads of state and military for attempting to succeed and bombing Caldari Prime during that time frame...probably gave the Achurians the opinion that the Gallenteans just might be the cluster's most dangerous imperialistic conquerors.

Agreed, at that time, a rather extremist goverment was in power. So its entirely plausible Achuran society choose to side with those who where their neighbors at the time and were being "forced" to submit.

Their actual choice to go out into space and become an active part of the state is beyond me however.

[Kohiko Sun]

Why sit on a rock and wait for the stars and universe to tell you their secrets when you can go to them and ask?


Edit to add a bit more: All of the megas seem to like hiring Achur spiritual advisors and teachers to give seminars or teach formal classes to help employees be less stressed and more productive. I remember a news blurb about it, but I'm not good at finding those. How sneaky is that to use a fad among management as a way to spread Achur and their Way off Achura?

[Seriphyn]

That has nothing to do with how the Achurians viewed the Federation a hundred years ago.

Well, hold on dude, you were making points about the topic of the big bad Federation in general, as opposed to this specific subject, so you have to expect counterpoints.

All of that said, though, the extreme right-wing government that controlled the Federation at the time would be more than enough reason for the Achur to secede as well, and given that they were surrounded by the Caldari, it would be easier to fall under their aegis when war broke out.

From this, the Achur remaining with the State is just a result of this legacy. Still think CCP should have chosen the other two mentioned ethnicities from Caldari Prime, instead of randomly creating the Achur but 

[Casiella]

So help me understand. Is this about possible inconsistencies in the background of a third bloodline CCP created for business reasons, or is this about defending one's viewpoint on a separate, personally-preferred faction?

Because I think the first discussion sounds valuable and interesting, but the second should stay in the many, many threads the OP has already created on that topic.

[Z.Sinraali]

I'm with Casi. Go fight the Fed-State PR battle elsewhere.

That said, there seem to be two separate issues here. One is the historical happenstance surrounding the Achuran presence in the State, the other the thematic continuity or lack thereof between the Achura and the rest of the Caldari peoples.

On the first point, I'm leaning for the fact that it really was just random chance that Caldari explorers stumbled across them, and then the issues within the Federation at the time that led them to take off with their buddies.

As for why they're buddies at all, well, I'm thinking the fact that both peoples have an isolationist or at least privacy-preferring streak would lead them to get along fairly well.

[Esna Pitoojee]

On a related note, is there any documentation of the sacrilege-of-the-homeworld/theft-of-the-rod incident that led up to the formation of the NPC Celestial Imperative? I remember an offhand reference to pirates being responsible as well, though not who or how.

[Kohiko Sun]

It's a mission arc you can do with the graduation certificates. The wiki page for Achura mentions it at the bottom a little bit.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

Great retirement benefits

[Cmdr Baxter]

To answer the OP's post …

PF on the subject of the Caldari and Achurans states that SuVee settled on Saisio shortly after the evacuation of Caldari Prime [1]. The Achura/SuVee relationship has thus existed for a little short of two centuries, but in all likelihood it may have existed well before that. Additionally, the EVElopedia entry for the Achura says they've been a member of the Caldari State for another century before that [2].

That's a lot of time to build good relations on all sides, and I think that shows in what we see of their present-day relationship. SuVee traded higher-ranking corporate positions (not to mention adopting some elements of Achuran culture), in exchange for the right to call Saisio their HQ. They brought with them their economic influence and quite probably a lot of employment opportunities in their subsidiary corporations. Remember that the megacorps provide for their own workers (although whether it's truly beneficial in the end is up for debate along the typical Caldari v. Gallente lines).

In exchange the Achurans brought their scientific tendencies to the table. They may have also been willing to allow SuVee to settle (and remain over the years) because of one other thing: the megacorporations have this tendency to dig in and ruthlessly defend their interests. The Ingalles Incident was an excellent example of this [3]. Each megacorp operates its own little fiefdom and doesn’t allow people to "rock the boat" within that. By remaining a part of the Caldari State, and allowing SuVee to retain Saisio as their headquarters, the Achurans (described as an introverted and reclusive society) are reasonably protected against the rest of the galaxy by SuVee.

You wouldn't find that sort of shield within the Gallente Federation.

The other thing I see as influencing the relationship is what they see "across the border" in the Federation. Under most circumstances the Gallente are normally middle-of-the-road centrists, but PF shows that they have a nasty habit of extreme political swings in times of crisis. The rise of the ultra-nationalist government in the early days of the Caldari War of Secession was one example [4]. More recently, I think we saw the rise of another ultra-nationalist government during the Foiritan administration and likely continuing into the current administration.

Ultra-nationalist governments do have a tendency to rock the boat in ways that disturb civil society, especially under times of extreme crisis. Sometimes a government like this, in my opinion, is good but sometimes it's not-so-good. A good example might be (in some people's interpretation, myself included) the present-day Russian Federation. A decade of economic/military/political decline hit the country hard, and it especially hit the average man on the street badly. By the time that Vladimir Putin came along Russia was having a serious identity crisis. But the fact that he greatly overhauled the country (and is continuing to do so, albeit behind the scenes) means that the people will likely continue to remain permissive of the ultra-nationalist government that's leading them.

A "bad" example of an ultra-nationalist government, in my opinion, is what we see playing out in PF for the Gallente Federation. That being said, I understand the reasons why the government came to be. The Gallente in the course of a year first were mauled by the Caldari. Next they were invaded by Uriam Kador's fleet, and then came Sansha's Nation. Their enemies are, literally, all around them to the point where civil society is probably perceived as being under threat. In response the political sphere within the Federation did a hard-right turn, which culminated in the formation of the Black Eagles [5]. Remember that this is coming from a society which has in the past enjoyed an unparalleled and vibrant democracy. The Federation has never had the same sort of "citizen-warrior" mindset that the Caldari have, hence another reason why the people are probably looking for the sort of strong leadership that a temporary ultra-nationalist government might provide.

Of course, if PF is any judge to go off of, the ultra-nationalist government will probably go away once these crisis have passed. Only to return the next time there's a series of crisis.

So, bottom line, I think the Achurans probably stayed with the Caldari State because of (1) the fact that siding with a megacorporation would protect and insulate their introverted society against the greater galaxy, (2) the economic benefits of having a megacorp using their world as its headquarters, and (3) the political volatility of the Gallente Federation.