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[Korsavius]

Sorry Swagginmuffin, I'm gonna have to back Jace on this. NOH is all about the public eye. They rub their junk all up in the public eye and love it.

Swagginmuffin?! I...I don't know what to say...

Then if CCP is seriously trying to imply that Ishukone is politically liberal in the sense of actually embracing things like individualism, pluralism, cultural tolerance, etc., then what are they? Just Gallenteans with Caldari affectations?

I think this train of thought can be a topic of it's own. Ishukone are definitely Caldari. I think to answer this question would involve defining what it means to be Caldari (aka what is Caldari culture?).

For example:
I might think sacrificing my pride in the name of the greater good would be the best route to take. You may think defending your honor and continuing the fight is the best option. You might see me as a spineless coward and I might see you as a stubborn bastard. At the end of the day, however, we both look to Cold Wind for guidance.

[V. Gesakaarin]

Pretty much all Minmatar oriented news is about the Sebiestor or the Brutor, the other tribes always just seem to be treated like afterthoughts.

I think the difference here is that the Brutor and Sebiestor represent a significant portion of the Republic population and political force so it's justifiable to me if they make the news more often since they're powerful driving forces.

With the Caldari State it's described that Kaalakiota and SuVee are the two largest Megas and the Patriot/Practicals the largest political and economic blocs that combined together are the driving forces behind domestic Caldari affairs, yet, where it might be said the Patriot/Practicals together constitute 80-90% of the Caldari population it seems like it's Ishukone alone that is in 80-90% of State related news articles.

It's like being told the Democrats and Republicans are the major political parties in the US but then only getting op-ed about minority candidates and parties in the news. This is much the same situation with the State and the in-game news. Kaalakiota/SuVee/Wiyrkomi/CBD/Lai Dai/NOH altogether represent the Caldari majority and together form the actual political and economic quorum of the CEP -- Ishukone does not. As such it becomes inherently difficult to gauge the actual corporate-political agendas and the general worldview of the Caldari majority when CCP continues to only present what is in effect the minority of the State in terms of population, economic power, and political authority.

This becomes an issue, because the news articles do represent a resource for setting the outlooks and political agendas of ones own characters and organizations in RP and with the State if nothing is said about what the Patriot and Practical Megas are up to, then it can be said you have no idea what the State is up to and how its citizens view the world in the present.

[Samira Kernher]

[23:35:38] CCP Logibro > Oh you silly Capsuleers...
[23:36:28] CCP Logibro > You think the station in Malkalen is fixed already.
[23:36:33] CCP Logibro > They're just getting started...
[23:37:27] CCP Logibro > I mean, they're started fixing it, but it's by no means actually finished.
[23:37:57] CCP Logibro > Maybe not you specifically, but many others have been commenting on how it was fixed in a day >.>
[23:54:45] CCP Logibro > Anyway, if you see anyone else going on about the station being fully fixed, give them a jab in the ribs for me will you?
[23:55:58] CCP Logibro > It's being fixed.
[23:56:08] CCP Logibro > It's by no means finished.


So yeah. Apparently the news was not supposed to mean that the station was fixed in a day (and reading back over it, I can see that people did jump to conclusions. Though it is very vaguely written and so is easy to make assumptions). Plus the in-game model specifically shows that it is not finished yet.

[Katrina Oniseki]

So it looks like some of you can suck it up and continue to take TonyG's Ishukone hard-on.

[V. Gesakaarin]

So it looks like some of you can suck it up and continue to take TonyG's Ishukone hard-on.

Probably in the same way one did with Games Workshop and their Matt Ward hard-on: ignoring completely and enjoying the other aspects of their IP that were fun. 

[Katrina Oniseki]

So it looks like some of you can suck it up and continue to take TonyG's Ishukone hard-on.

Probably in the same way one did with Games Workshop and their Matt Ward hard-on: ignoring completely and enjoying the other aspects of their IP that were fun. 

Ohhhhhh burn!

I was reading a wikipedia or something for one of the "chans", and it was talking about Matt Ward and all the crazy weird stuff he did. I've never gotten into Warhammer outside the Relic video game, so it was interesting to note similarities.

Mostly that no matter what they do, the fans hate them. In fact, I think all fiction is like that. So it doesn't really matter what CCP does, there will always be people who don't like it and call it crap.

[V. Gesakaarin]

Mostly that no matter what they do, the fans hate them. In fact, I think all fiction is like that. So it doesn't really matter what CCP does, there will always be people who don't like it and call it crap.

Oh, I'd agree with you, we all have different tastes after all. However, I don't find Ishukone as player crap, as much as generic in regards to the State. By that I mean all the other Megacorporations to me have a sense of soul and character, a certain subculture to add to the Caldari State.

Kaalakiota, the powerful genuine patriots who combine a true love for the Caldari people with fierce pride who value military and economic strength.

Wiyrkomi, the staunch traditionalists that are still led by the Seituoda family in an almost modern feudal Raata corporate culture that values loyalty, courage, and determination.

Lai Dai, whose very name means, "Never Forget" the quiet and dignified academics, the nationalist-romantics motivated by a deep sense of respect for the past.

Sukuuvestaa, the ruthless and the proud who were sharpened and forged in the harshness of countless frontier colonial projects where truly only the strong could survive.

Nugoeihuvei, the shady "legitimate businessmen" who exist and thrive in the dubious grey and black markets just like the Caldari smugglers and organized crime lords did before them.

CBD, the merchants and rogue traders that built a commercial empire in their common interest and who expand the frontiers of State trade with a savvy smile and an open mind.

Hyasyoda, whose history extends deep into the past and whose success lies in caution, in planning, secrets and information brokering.

For me, all the Megas but Ishukone have this sense of soul and culture to them. Ishukone is like the Caldari version of Quafe -- it's all about slick advertising and effective marketing to the point it might as well just be the shell for an advertising company. All style and no substance. It gets all the news, the Ishukone uniforms, the Ishukone Scorpions and all the air time that it's almost like a modern RL corporation - you just buy into the brand and image. Yet that brand and image just doesn't impress that same sense of purpose and conviction the other Megacorps. possess in the PF and in the game. It's like the Apple version of the Caldari, you get a lot of awesome advertising and products that are stylish, modern, and sleek but in the end you just paid a premium for not much at all over the competition.

If that's what people seem to enjoy then certainly they are by all means welcome to buy Ishukone, it's just I as a player choose not to. 

[Shiori]

Oblig. XKCD Perry Bible Fellowship strip: http://pbfcomics.com/20/

[Jace]

Mostly that no matter what they do, the fans hate them. In fact, I think all fiction is like that. So it doesn't really matter what CCP does, there will always be people who don't like it and call it crap.

This. People forget three important things when it comes to the fiction, especially novels:

 1) PF is PF, no matter how much you dislike it. It has to be a literal contradiction for the community to have an argument for dismissing something that CCP authorized. 2) There are huge amounts of people that find it interesting, despite the loud detractors. Yes, those who hated the novels have done a very good job shouting down anyone who uses them as sources - but again, canon is canon. 3) We are not building this world, it is not our world. It is is CCP's. Players over estimate their importance by massive amounts.

[Makoto Priano]

Mostly that no matter what they do, the fans hate them. In fact, I think all fiction is like that. So it doesn't really matter what CCP does, there will always be people who don't like it and call it crap.

... However, I don't find Ishukone as player crap, as much as generic in regards to the State. By that I mean all the other Megacorporations to me have a sense of soul and character, a certain subculture to add to the Caldari State. ...

Actually, the element I find most engaging about Ishu is that it's one of the dirtier Megas; between Crieliere, TCMCs, and Gariushi's origin within the Guristas, it's perfectly willing to do the unpalatable. I get a tone of 'anything for the corp, anything for the worker' from it that is often dressed up in populist talk, but is also at some level anti- or perhaps better said as non-State. By this, I don't mean that Ishu seeks the dissolution of the State -- rather, that it's a somewhat practically-minded liberal corp, but its practical focus isn't at the state/corp level so much as the corp/worker level.

To be honest, Veik, I suspect a lot of your Ishuhate is because you conflate Ishukone with a lot of modern memes that you dislike -- for instance, that comment you made New Age Caldari for Ishu. wat. I don't even.

[Lyn Farel]

Ishukone was said to have started (and remained) a caldari company focused on high tech and high end research. I always imagined it very tech savvy, and Crielere, Insorum mass tests in live, were no exception to the rule.

[V. Gesakaarin]

To be honest, Veik, I suspect a lot of your Ishuhate is because you conflate Ishukone with a lot of modern memes that you dislike -- for instance, that comment you made New Age Caldari for Ishu. wat. I don't even.

It's less hate and more an ambivalence. Ishukone to me is the CCP marketing darling, because it has the easy sell of being, "Nice guys". It's reached the point where anything to do with it now engenders a response of, "Meh. Another typical Ishukone piece where the completely expected occurs. Cool story, I guess." There was a time when I started RP and you had groups like Omerta Syndicate that were Ishukone aligned but also willing to build on the darker, more pragmatic aspects of Caldari corporatism but to me that's well in the past.

At this point in time, simply due to the fact that Ishukone gets so much exposure by CCP to the point that it's become one of the stereotypical aspects of the Caldari if you don't know much about them. It's become in my mind the almost Mary-Sue Megacorp. The one chosen if you don't know much about the State or want to be the cliche, "Nice guy Caldari" like CCP and Tony G have presented Ishukone over the past 5-6 years.

Now that's my perception, and while it certainly doesn't apply as a hard and fast rule but generally all things being equal if I see two Caldari characters and one says they're Ishukone and the other not, I'll tend to focus on the character that didn't choose Ishukone because they have not raised the red flag of, "Probably a special and unique snowflake" in my mind. It's the same rule for deploying the pole of do-not-want when a character says they were in the, "Super elite special forces graduating top of the class" of the Caldari Navy.

[Shiori]

In other words, you jelly.

[V. Gesakaarin]

In other words, you jelly.

Totes jelly.

I love it when CCP marketing makes fiction guidelines. Like the Sansha incursions of forever invading forever.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I would say something about this, but I am pretty sure there are at least two full threads of this discussion already in this forum.

It should be sufficient to say that I agree with some things you said, and don't agree with other things you said.