Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Victoria Stecker on 07 Sep 2011, 09:09
-
So this started in my head as a very simple, curious question to the people and corps in FW: If FW didn't exist, where would you and/or your corporation be, and what would they be doing?
Unfortunately, it then evolved into a different question, but I'll leave that aside until later.
So yeah. If FW weren't there, what would you and your corp be doing? I know the question is a little unfair for corps formed specifically for FW, but I'm sure you can be creative.
-
KOTMC is hard to answer for since it was one of those more-or-less purpose-formed FW corps, but it contains enough people dedicated to the Amarr faction that I'd argue it might have existed as a loyalist RP/PvP corp, possibly off claiming low/null sec space FOR THE EMPIAH or purging heathens from our territories. :P
I, personally? harder to say; the "consensual wardec" PvP component of FW was definitely one of the things that attracted me to KOTMC. Without it, I might have ended up off in null or lowsec, being NBSI or piratish (it'd also depend on how much PvP KOTMC was getting into without FW).
-
Can't really speak for Veto, but I'd guess we'd probably not be doing anything different. Might still be based in lowsec, if anything.
Me? I dunno. I might be less jaded and :fuckthatshit: about lowsec if FW didn't exist... though, to be fair, I probably also wouldn't have made Morwen, as that was what she was created for originally before I got sucked into regular missions.
-
Without FW, I think many of the non-CVA Amarr groups would have united in some form.
(Note: not many CVA Amarr groups left, are there?)
-
uhm, i think i would have created my own RP corp, based off High-sec and trying to extend influence into Syndicate....
Bring all those citizens into the light of Democracy :bear:
-
Same thing just less lowsec combat for I-RED anyways.
-
For KotMC ? I dunno.
For me, I would probably have stayed in CVA longer, but I doubt i would still be in it now. Probably back to anti pirate-ish stuff.
Late EDIT : actually if I want to be the most objective possible, without FW I would never have found KotMC (and thus, the global RP community), and would probably have stopped playing for long since I mainly remain on this game for RP.
-
Without FW...
1) I would never have RP'd
2) I would probably still be a Goon pet.
3) Or I'd be a pirate.
4) Or I might be in Rote Kapelle with a friend of mine.
5) Or I might be in Test with my brother.
Basically, I wouldn't be RP-ing. That's the big difference. I jumped into RP as a consequence of moving to FW, mostly to enrich my FW experience. Not to mention, although not strictly an RP corp, KOTMC does a lot of RP.
-
Without FW...
Hm, I probably would still be playing Raze in the Imperial Academy, running missions and RPing alone.
-
LDIS was formed before EA/FW hit and we always had a goal of T2 production (something we are doing). EA/FW introduced an entirely new region, Black Rise, which is where we have made our home. I suspect if EA/FW had not occurred, we might have found our way into 4TH and tried to be an industrial backbone, but I am not sure.
-
Once CCP fixes FW, we're all going to say 'worse off'.
And yes, while KotMC perhaps does not owe its existence to FW, it certainly does owe its success, size and power to it. The collection of PvP'ers and patriotic Amarrians found in the 24th IC has been a boon for us, not to mention given us purpose and direction.
-
When I think about where Vieve might be now if EA/FW had never happened, I get the beginnings of a headache.
If it were to disappear now? I don't think it'd have much effect on my characters' storylines. Maybe.
-
If not for FW I would likely not have delved as deeply into RP as I did - I was on my way into the deeper ends and rather active on the summit etc. before the expansion and during the build-up to it, when it hit and for a good long while after. If FW had never hit I'd likely still joined STRIX but that corp might not have burned itself up on FW and died off.
I allways suspected FW would kill STRIX, even from the damn start, and far down the road I hate having even been partially right.
On the flip-side of things it's nearly impossible to predict how non-FW high-sec/low-sec RP wars and pirate-hunting ops had fared with the corp, the storyline and everything, so the only thing I'm sure of is, I'd still be more 'into' the Fed-side of RP, though perhaps not as deeply as I were before I offed my oldest toon. Also my FW-only toon would obviously never have existed...
-
I doubt I'd even be on EVE without FW. I came into the game straight into FW and RP. Personally I don't think I'd do piracy, I don't think I'd like null sec, and I'd bore of carebearing after a while. So I wouldn't have stuck it out this long without FW. With FW there's always something to shoot and something to RP about.
-
According to the Amarr militia KB, I'd be 5.6b richer.
-
According to the Amarr militia KB, I'd be 5.6b richer.
But the legend of the angry miner would not have existed. : (
-
What's FW?
-
Without FW and TEA?
I would still be playing EVE.
-
Without FW and TEA?
I would still be playing EVE.
I was looking forward to your anti-Jamyl corp, Lallara. Why didn't you end up pursuing that more?
-
Without FW I suspect EM would be spending less time chasing pirates and a bit more scrapping with PIE (and any other Imperial loyalist outfit that wanted to get in on the act).
-
Without FW I would probably still be PVPing somewhere like I am now in IRED. FW for Simca was more to explain her background in Mordu's Legion and the game mechanics that say she graduated from UoC. Personally I enjoy and like FW despite its current brokeness, and plan to return to it at some point.
-
I am a bit jaded over FW. CAIN was founded many years ago long before FW entered into the scene. We did our RP thing in the State, a lot of anti-piracy operations and some RP wars based of in game events.
FW changed the RP world drastically, I believe for the worse. There is very little of a RP community, and the former pirates who can now attack ships without security status penalties took over. They aren't there for the RP, they dont know it and do not care about it. But to be a RPer for a empire nation your almost forced into the FW area.
CAIN spent two years off and on in the militia, and they were some pretty low points as people just got bored. If there was not FW, then I believe we would have more creative RP instead of circling beacons.
-
That mirrors my thoughts and feelings exactly. Also it keeps new empire loyal alliances from forming since any five man Corp can just jump right into the fray and doesn't have to seek out like minded corps. How many AMs, EMs, or I-REDs have formed since FW?
-
I would not have lost my ability to afford human respect to a large number of EVE players.
-
I would not have lost my ability to afford human respect to a large number of EVE players.
Players, Andreus? Not characters?
-
Players, Andreus? Not characters?
Yep. Players. FW made me lose my ability to respect a large number of players, which is only one of its many egregious sins.
-
I can likely guess who some of these players migt be, but I digress.
For my part, beyond the whole 'FW is broken arrrrgh' thing (well covered, elsewhere) my biggest annoyance is, as stated, it sucks RP'ers out of EVE and dumps them into the FW sphere because it's apparently the only 'legit' struggle for nationals. Very, very sad, tbh. I'm personally convinced what little hope there was for a sustained pro-Fed RP alliance died with the coming of FW.
-
Honestly FW didn't do much for me, one way or the other, so enough said on that.
But ont eh topic as a whole, I'll agree that FW really killed off a lot of RP, and I've noticed that any time there is a "war" in a RPG, it does really kill off a lot of posibilities and really strains the RP theme. Think about this. Now that we are "at war" with each other, you have all said it, fighting for your nation is the only way to go. But that doesn't make sense, since we can never win the war, or lose it. Its totally meaning less. But back when the empires were at peace, you could either be nice and peaceful, or you could shoot at your neighbor, and either way the empire you support could pat you on the back while offically having nothing to do with your blowing up that ammo dump or whatever.
Just thinking about it, I think FW should have been "cold war." Where the militias would be mostly like they are today, but more underground, and truely third party warfare like the cold war was in real life. So the empires would be like the Americans and the Soviets, and the capsuleer corps would be like the North and South Korea's and such before the actual Korean war. That way, the fighters can fight, and other who don't want to fight don't have to and can still support their empires. And the Empires can give neat stuff the to the fighters, but its all on the sly.
Maybe I should pitch that to CCP for a temp fix to faction warfare, and give us more RP stuff to work with.
-
I am a bit jaded over FW. CAIN was founded many years ago long before FW entered into the scene. We did our RP thing in the State, a lot of anti-piracy operations and some RP wars based of in game events.
FW changed the RP world drastically, I believe for the worse. There is very little of a RP community, and the former pirates who can now attack ships without security status penalties took over. They aren't there for the RP, they dont know it and do not care about it. But to be a RPer for a empire nation your almost forced into the FW area.
CAIN spent two years off and on in the militia, and they were some pretty low points as people just got bored. If there was not FW, then I believe we would have more creative RP instead of circling beacons.
I agree, and this is also what saddens me because i have always found the FW concept quite good (I mean, that kind of easy and enjoyable pvp, not the mechanisms themselves and how they are bad atm).
-
Now that KOTMC has folded and I've moved on to another FW corp, I can very definitely say that without FW, I'd be off derping around in 0.0. As was, it was a tough choice between joining some small, 0.0-roaming corp and coming back to FW again. Ultimately, the laid-back PvP environment drew me back in - we've got just about every trapping of 0.0 (specific mechanics aside) but without the CTAs, spies stealing our hard-earned stuff, etc...
That said, I don't doubt either that the community as a whole would be far more active without FW. In particular, FW erased the nuances of many factions - i.e., the Hawk-vs-Dove debate in the Federation or the acceptance-vs-terrorism debate in the Republic kind of became moot after the sides ended up at war.
-
In particular, FW erased the nuances of many factions - i.e., the Hawk-vs-Dove debate in the Federation or the acceptance-vs-terrorism debate in the Republic kind of became moot after the sides ended up at war.
^^ I agree with this a lot.
-
I agree with this a lot more.
-
From a story perspective, Empyrean Age was probably the worst blow to the credibility of a long-running PF I have ever seen in my life. The things they did do, the things they didn't do, the vast opportunities missed - even a fundamental fix to the mechanics of factional warfare will not undo the terrible damage to EVE's story that EA inflicted. There's so much wrong with the story elements that I don't have the stomach to go into it right now, and the way the story was implemented - with absolutely no player involvement, mitigation or input whatsoever - was a vile, pathetic disgrace.
What irritates me most, however, was the things CCP didn't do. This entire story had the potential to get rid of CONCORD permanently, remove limiting factors, let the war have some real consequences, but no, CONCORD came back stronger than ever somehow. By having Sarum show up at the very last moment with her magical bullshit device, they missed a golden (harr harr) opportunity to seriously throw the Empire for six and explore the actions of a demoralised Empire once again robbed of the illusion of invincibility - and the brutal, cut-throat struggle between the Heirs to become the new ruler of an Empire that desperately needed strong, unified leadership. This isn't just me hating on the Amarr - no-one should have saved them. The Elder Fleet - or, in a perfect world, whatever came for the Amarrians - should have fucked them up, and good, repelled only by a desperate and costly last-ditch effort by the remnants of the Amarrian Navy. Perhaps they could have had Admiral Saracen convince the Theology Council to let him redeem himself by leading the charge against the invaders. Having the Minmatar victory be phyrric was a terrible mistake.
Don't even get me started on the clusterfuck that was the Caldari-Gallente storyline.
-
Don't even get me started on the clusterfuck that was the Caldari-Gallente storyline.
No, please, go on.
-
No, no, trust me, you really don't want to go down this road with me. And to be quite frank neither do I.
-
Don't even get me started on the clusterfuck that was the Caldari-Gallente storyline.
No, please, go on.
You may want to go look at some old threads on Chatsubo (http://www.eve-chatsubo.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4122) - 34 pages of reacting to a developing story line...
-
Without FW, then PIE's Amarrian of the Year award would have a more diverse group of nominations, I think.
-
CONCORD is not the problem imo, the problem might be in your case CONCORD interference in non capsuleer affairs. It could have been a lot nicer to see CONCORD blown up by whatever unexpected (but not a fleet of Elders ffs, one would think that this kind of obvious shit is no match for CONCORD), and then have to refocus on their core business : capsuleers. As CONCORD is more or less still tied to the 4 (5) factions whims (but not totally, they now have a lot of independance), CONCORD could have withdrawed from the intergalactic conventional scene to concentrate on capsuleers.
Because without CONCORD, you lose all the game limits for the players, basically.
-
I loved FW at the very beginning. But with little to no story development, and no mechanics changes after things settled into optimal and predictable patterns for all sides, it gets stale and boring.
FW brings us the RP illusion of war, but lacking in many of the real attributes of war.
But in all honesty, to engage in exciting PvP before FW often meant investing lots and lots of hours just for one engagement. At the start of FW, one could easily get three decent engagements in an hour.
-
I loved FW at the very beginning. But with little to no story development, and no mechanics changes after things settled into optimal and predictable patterns for all sides, it gets stale and boring.
FW brings us the RP illusion of war, but lacking in many of the real attributes of war.
But in all honesty, to engage in exciting PvP before FW often meant investing lots and lots of hours just for one engagement. At the start of FW, one could easily get three decent engagements in an hour.
You know something tells me, the day they might balance out faction frigs and you risk actaully finding something other than daredevils/dramiels in even the smallest plexes, people might risk flying the low-cost easy to replace T1 frigs again. My toon in FW flies T1 frigs and cruisers as a point of pride, and mostly I run from the aformentioned faction frigs or perhaps take my chances on attacking navy frigates in T1, because they are not so over-the-top that there is a chance to get a victory from such an engagement, if tactical situations favor you. In the start of FW it was a dream for newer players, because the number of T1 ships around meant your had alot of affordable T1 vs alot of other affordable T1 stuff. Now it's die to faction or ship spinn in station, barring the rare instances you get a more balanced engagement.
... damn it, I'm going on about FW again. I'll leave this here. Suffice to say, I think, FW *could* be alot of fun again, but several things need to change for that to happen.
-
Because without CONCORD, you lose all the game limits for the players, basically.
Not necessarily. I could see the various faction navies stepping up to the plate. Aggress someone in Amarr space? The Amarr Navy comes down on you hard, now that Concord is gone.
You might have problems with them making life excessively hard for FW participants in their enemies territories, but I could live with that (although, I'd want the autopilot to give me a warning)
-
Yes of course, you can always find new roles.
What annoys me is that people are always spitting on CONCORD. Fuck CONCORD, they are useless, they are corrupt, blablabla. What the hell ? I can understand that they are source of debate, but what I find just weird is seeing everyone saying that CONCORD are some kind of aberation that everyone should get rid of.
I, for one, find that faction very useful to the lore and the depth of the universe. Especially because you all have seen what happened with FW : oversimplification of the conflict (and all that has been stated above). If people want to get rid of the last remnants of what prevent the whole cluster to go on a full scale war with even less depth as today...
-
Yes of course, you can always find new roles.
What annoys me is that people are always spitting on CONCORD. Fuck CONCORD, they are useless, they are corrupt, blablabla. What the hell ? I can understand that they are source of debate, but what I find just weird is seeing everyone saying that CONCORD are some kind of aberation that everyone should get rid of.
I, for one, find that faction very useful to the lore and the depth of the universe. Especially because you all have seen what happened with FW : oversimplification of the conflict (and all that has been stated above). If people want to get rid of the last remnants of what prevent the whole cluster to go on a full scale war with even less depth as today...
The majority of these whine are IC - they stem from;
Star Fraction - 'CONCORD is a symptom of the corrupt nationalistic/imperialistic pig-dog governments etc etc etc'
Pirates - 'blatter blatter blatter TRANSLATION; "We want CONCORD gone so we can rape, pillage and burn i nhigh sec to, down with the police"
Specific Minmatar - 'CONCORD is biased towards Amarr whiner blatter whine whine whine'
Specific Amarr - 'CONCORD is the only reason the Republic still stands, herity derp' - you don't see this ofthen, but iirc there was 1-2 incidents.
Anyone else who for some reason think CONCORD are corrupt/useless/spineless/biased/inneffective/jerks/what-have-ya.
Basically, anyone who whine about CONCORD, far as I've seen, has some form of selfish desire they want satisfied with CONCORD's removal.
The few OOC complaints are people unhappy about the machanics or in favor of a newer system. I personally don't really care either way, so long as the game-mechanics that keep capsuleers in check are maintained, or trimmed to be more effective - the last thing I want to see, is the end of high-sec, or a need to keep an armed ship and a gang handy at all times, because the moment those mechanics stop working, an all-out killing-spree will start as everyone fights everyone and all the can't-fight-worh-a-damn stay docked forever or die on the undock.
Bottom line? Fuck the whiners. New Eden needs CONCORD, or simmilar organ doing the exact same job. Might as well keep the devil you know...
-
While they're a useful game mechanic, there's really no reason why someone should applaud CONCORD in terms of lore. At all.
-
Yes of course, you can always find new roles.
What annoys me is that people are always spitting on CONCORD. Fuck CONCORD, they are useless, they are corrupt, blablabla. What the hell ? I can understand that they are source of debate, but what I find just weird is seeing everyone saying that CONCORD are some kind of aberation that everyone should get rid of.
I, for one, find that faction very useful to the lore and the depth of the universe. Especially because you all have seen what happened with FW : oversimplification of the conflict (and all that has been stated above). If people want to get rid of the last remnants of what prevent the whole cluster to go on a full scale war with even less depth as today...
I think you have to look at CONCORD from the perspective of a capsuleer to understand the general distaste for it. By and large, they are the last great chain that holds capsuleers from having free reign to do anything they want, and are largely perceived as a bureaucratic tax collecting monster that blows up your ship in high sec when you accidentally fire off a smartbomb to close to your buddy, yet often fail to protect your hauler as you travel afk through high sec. They don't protect innocents from bloodthirsty wars, they keep the empires from killing each other for good (what nationalist likes that?), they let murderers repent by killing pirates, and make you pay insane amounts of fees for holding sovereignty in the outer regions. The only good they do is deter random violence in high-sec and give bounties for killing people they don't like; if this is New Eden's idea of a police force, I think we're screwed.
-
It's New Eden, Doyle. We *are* screwed by definition.
-
And that just became my new favorite tag line. And agreed.
-
Here's the thing.
If one of the factions triumphed over it's opponent then where would PC's from the defeated race spawn from and who would train them? I suppose they could wind up being trained by their allied faction.
Also. If one of the core nations goes how would people see relations amongst the survivors developing?
-
The fact that they implemented FW, and disbanded the RP Aurora group pretty much doomed FW to be limited instanced PVP, and that was pretty much it. Add to that the fact that low security is a pretty unprofitable place for the most part, with the moons still in the hands of the large 0.0 alliances, and the doldrum that comes to FW after about six months there isn't enough there to support a RP group for the most part. FW can very easily turn a RP group into just another vanilla PVP group very quickly, very quietly, and very effectively.
-
It's New Eden, Doyle. We *are* screwed by definition.
"This is New Eden, gentlemen. The Gods will not save you." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNLKG_XIqMk)
-
Add to that the fact that low security is a pretty unprofitable place for the most part, with the moons still in the hands of the large 0.0 alliances,
We seem to be doing alright making a profit in low-sec and besides high-end moons large 0.0 alliances are not excessively presence, but maybe that is just in my corner of New Eden.
-
Add to that the fact that low security is a pretty unprofitable place for the most part, with the moons still in the hands of the large 0.0 alliances,
We seem to be doing alright making a profit in low-sec and besides high-end moons large 0.0 alliances are not excessively presence, but maybe that is just in my corner of New Eden.
The corner of low-sec space, close to Cloud Ring/Pure Blind is quite active with the big nullsec guys. Also Rook & Kings always come pay a visit.
-
Add to that the fact that low security is a pretty unprofitable place for the most part, with the moons still in the hands of the large 0.0 alliances,
We seem to be doing alright making a profit in low-sec and besides high-end moons large 0.0 alliances are not excessively presence, but maybe that is just in my corner of New Eden.
The corner of low-sec space, close to Cloud Ring/Pure Blind is quite active with the big nullsec guys. Also Rook & Kings always come pay a visit.
*looks at his corner of low-sec and Bruno's description* Maybe we have different corners with very similar descriptions.