Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE Character Development => Topic started by: Halete on 25 Mar 2013, 06:54
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So, Halete has been quite sheltered for a few months now I guess. If you're asking 'Who the fuck are you?' or wondering what's up, you may have noticed either in conversation or on the IGS Halete profess some sentiments that could rather be construed as Rogue Drone Sympathy. Indeed, her interest in the Rogue Drones bleeds nicely into her own somewhat eccentric sense of spirituality.
It's no secret that I'm interested in moving my RP in that direction (Rogue Drone stuff) and I have a few ground-level ideas that I can easily apply to my game-play within a few months of training, namely;
-visiting drone regions,
-harassing ratters in the area,
-flying cloakies and being menacing/cryptic IC in Local whilst dropping hints as to Halete's interest in the drone cultures in that space,
-training Industry (for Drone production) and
-carrying salvage drones in bay, as well as keeping hivemind materials and alloys in cargo
So overall I'm not fishing for ideas about what I can do on a 'micro' level to wet my feet in this area of RP, moreover I'm interested in the big picture.
Namely;
What avenues exist in terms of initiatives, player run story arcs, organizations etc. for an RPer interested in this area to explore?
Is the Rogue Drone scene dead? Certainly except for UNIT the majority of the "Rogue Drone RP" I've seen in the last two years has been 'non-RPers' RPing (oxymoron right? not my words) 'Rogue Drones' themselves complete with generous amounts of binary spam in channels.
Any pointers on lore scraps? A lot of this crap (namely anything that isn't to do with the Big Four, and sometimes even then) isn't very well archived especially since a lot of 'RP Canon' seems to come from literature written by established RPers that is considered canon even without the mighty :psyccp: seal of approval.
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So whilst I was writing this, UNIT reposted their thread! ... I'll be reading that of course.
(Help I am not good at computer how did this double post get here?)
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first thing i would suggest is checking out the now defunct Arek'Jaalan Rogue Drone division.
it has a lot of information collected in an IC manner, so it's viable Halete would know of it.
Apparently the Unit-named 'officer' drones in the Drone Regions are sentient. though it may be somewhat dangerous attempting to communicate with them, especially if CCP spot you doing so :P
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Just don't stick an AI in your head and you're fine. Or capture a rogue drone. That leads to madness.
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-visiting drone regions,
-harassing ratters in the area,
-flying cloakies and being menacing/cryptic IC in Local whilst dropping hints as to Halete's interest in the drone cultures in that space,
I hope you speak Russian, or it'll be you who's getting cryptic messages dropped at :lol:
More seriously on the topic. There was a brief rogue drone RP effort year or two back, most of them got laughed and hazed out of the scene after a few months. Few remain I guess, I'm not really in the loop what's going on in the deepest depths of the Wizard Hatting community these days.
I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying be prepared have shit poured on you.
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Indeed, the Arek'Jaalan project is what came to mind I asked if Rogue Drone RP was 'dead' - I know that in times of olde there were quite a few of these little things going on. I will definitely peruse the old data though.
I read through your thread and saw at the end how Unit believes that humans are the key to the advancement of dronekind; interestingly, conversely, Halete believes that dronekind is the key to the evolution of man. :P
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There was a brief rogue drone RP effort year or two back, most of them got laughed and hazed out of the scene after a few months. Few remain I guess, I'm not really in the loop what's going on in the deepest depths of the Wizard Hatting community these days. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying be prepared have shit poured on you.
Shit like this pisses me off. It prevents interesting RP from evolving because of fear of retribution and general exclusion from everything. But luckily, Yuni's been doing an amazing job so far. Aside from AJ, I strongly suggest you talk to Yuni and get something going on there. Some friendly Rogue's might make it easier for Halete to go and understand/study Rogue Drone kind.
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I hope you speak Russian, or it'll be you who's getting cryptic messages dropped at :lol:
I've fucked about in Ruskie space a fair bit and understand that 'mad' sounds the same in all languages.
Some of the shit that gets spammed in cyrillic just because you wanted to look at the pretty nebulae. :(
But I've also run into plenty english or broken english speakers - I know that it's going to be hit/miss, especially since I know that some of the people I run into who do understand me are going to disregard me as being a complete fucking moron, but that's okay. If I didn't have a hard skin I wouldn't be playing EVE. :)
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While i understand that it's a totally valid avenue to take when dealing with Rogue Drone RP, the major issue i've had with most of the drone RP i have seen since making Yuni, is that it generally ends up being along the lines of :
HerpDerp Drone-eat-human-face-now.
I suppose it's just not my style. Capsuleers are destructive enough. I find it more amusing to make a Drone that on the surface seems to have more humanity than most capsuleers.
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I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying be prepared have shit poured on you.
I think Hatele is used to having shit poured on him, but this is the advice I would give.
Rogue drones lie within the boundaries of the "gets a skeptical look from most people" zone. It can be done well, or it can be done poorly.
Personally I would go for a more subtle approach to it - don't ever explicitly state it, just drop vague hints through actions and words that aren't obvious on their own, but can over time can paint enough of a picture for people to figure out.
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... What makes you say that you think I'm used to it?!
Also that sounds like good advice, to be honest.
I'll probably avoid posting my 10 page itinerary on the IGS about how Rogue Drones are awesome followed by a brief but destructive parade of shit-posting preceding an eventual disappearance from the RP community.
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... What makes you say that you think I'm used to it?!
You're kinky like that. :cube:
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... Touche.
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AFAIK the biggest chunk of foundational rogue drone PF is still that CONCORD report PDF that came out way back when. A couple quick searches didn't pull it up, but it should be around somewhere. It gives a bit of info on some of the early Rogue Drone stuff. There were also a couple of good EON (so, sort of semi-PF?) chrons on rogue drones. I think Istvaan wrote at least one of them, so you could poke him about it.
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ARIA Report on Rogue Drones ->https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Code_Aria_Inquiry (https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Code_Aria_Inquiry)
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much of the CCP written information relating to rogue drones is scattered across a wide range of things.
Such as missions of all levels, and the rogue drone exploration sites.
This makes it difficult to grasp everything.
Things like, rogue drones being able to interact peacefully with people. This can be done, according to a specific exploration expedition.
Rogue drones being able to integrate technology they find into their own ecosystem, is another thing only mentioned in one place.
Much of it is of course, contradictory. Yaay.
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I've been poking at Rogue Drones RP for a while, and this is my thoughts as of now on it:
*Rping as a rogue drone is generally a bad idea, since we have no idea what anything about them is like, and anything you claim is complete hearsay and is totally up in the air to CCP.
*'Capturing' intact rogue drones is probably also a bad idea. I don't think I've so far seen an incidence of this not ending in the drone's inevitable escape/rampage.
The problem is there is very little in the way of being able to support/interact with the rogue drones IC. They don't have NPC agents, there's very little in the way of being able to do anything except shoot them. This problem is then compounded because if someone claims IC to have made some sort of contact with them, they're effectively godmodding the drones into doing so, and people tend to make frowny faces at this. I have a whole bunch of RP stuff basically sitting on standstill until there's anything I can do mechanically. Saede has been trying to contact rogue drones for months, and has been working on building illegal strong AIs, and there is a lot of places I'd like to go with Rogue Drone stuff that I can't do because CCP hasn't provided anything to do.
That's not to say RP involving drones can't be done, but its...a tricky place to try and roleplay.
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Um...there's a rogue drone mind in Deltole you can do a mission for :S you have to get its embryonic mind back from other alvus rogues.
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Um...there's a rogue drone mind in Deltole you can do a mission for :S you have to get its embryonic mind back from other alvus rogues.
the mission agent in question actually gives you ORE standings. And that agent is all there is, and there's nothing to the arc besides doing those two missions that one agent gives. I know about her though. I've gotten enough people to go fail her mission and collect embryos for me to know all about her.
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Um...there's a rogue drone mind in Deltole you can do a mission for :S you have to get its embryonic mind back from other alvus rogues.
the mission agent in question actually gives you ORE standings. And that agent is all there is, and there's nothing to the arc besides doing those two missions that one agent gives. I know about her though. I've gotten enough people to go fail her mission and collect embryos for me to know all about her.
hawt
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I am quite reluctant when it comes to rogue drone RP. As Saede said, not enough serious info PF wise. As soon as you "invent" something about them, it basically is like making stuff up concerning the capabilities of the drones in question. Even if you say it's very local and minor, just concerning a tiny hive, it actually tells what the drones are able to do in general. And since we do not have much (if not anything...) in PF to actually know how drones work and what safe boundaries in drone RP would be...
The only thing I know is that drone control is possible since SoCT ultra secret mysterious people seem to be able to do so at will, but that's completely godmody in itself, even if it exists in PF. People will just roll their eyes if someone ever claims to be able to do such a feat, the same way they would roll their eyes at someone playing an enheduaa... something.
Edit : I think the best card to play in that matter may be more the naive/innocent sympathizer kind of character, that actually has no more knowledge than any of our characters about drones, except maybe a bit more fancy and obscure lore since the character would be some kind of rogue drone nerd. That can provide a lot of RP ideas without going into highly volatile RP territory.
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I am quite reluctant when it comes to rogue drone RP. As Saede said, not enough serious info PF wise. As soon as you "invent" something about them, it basically is like making stuff up concerning the capabilities of the drones in question. Even if you say it's very local and minor, just concerning a tiny hive, it actually tells what the drones are able to do in general. And since we do not have much (if not anything...) in PF to actually know how drones work and what safe boundaries in drone RP would be...
The only thing I know is that drone control is possible since SoCT ultra secret mysterious people seem to be able to do so at will, but that's completely godmody in itself, even if it exists in PF. People will just roll their eyes if someone ever claims to be able to do such a feat, the same way they would roll their eyes at someone playing an enheduaa... something.
Edit : I think the best card to play in that matter may be more the naive/innocent sympathizer kind of character, that actually has no more knowledge than any of our characters about drones, except maybe a bit more fancy and obscure lore since the character would be some kind of rogue drone nerd. That can provide a lot of RP ideas without going into highly volatile RP territory.
This basically completely mirrors my thoughts on it, and the 'rogue drone nerd' is basically how I RP Saede.
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I don't think I agree with Lyn. I'm of the mind that Eve is indeed a sandbox in all aspects, even in RP. Yes you should avoid godmody things like saying you control a fleet of Rogue Drones and autowin or something....odd like that.
HOWEVER. If you base some of your RP in hard scientific fact with what we know about artificial intelligence theory today combined with the bioengineering and biomechanical processes evident in drones (see the Postnatal Chronicle for reference http://community.eveonline.com/backstory/chronicles/postnatal/ (http://community.eveonline.com/backstory/chronicles/postnatal/) ), you could pull something off. You may not be able to RP as a hybrid rogue drone or something sure, that'd get some eye rolls. But there's plenty of ways to use what we DO know in Eve about Rogue Drones with the science we have in the real world to create something neat as long as it isn't too far fetched.
Eve is very much player content driven. If the content does not exist in great amounts, that does not mean it simply cannot be mentioned. Even something like the Enheduanni mentioned earlier could pop up indirectly ("I'm trying to get a scan on this Sleeper Conclave, but I'm getting weird heat signatures here and there. They're moving too. I think something's busted in the scanner...).
Bottom line is, as long as you don't go too far out there, you can definitely do this. If you want OOC help in developing more scientifically sound backgrounds to create a pseudo proof-of-concept, I'd be happy to assist.
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I never said that I was disapproving or opposed to such things.
As long as it does not remain too far fetched is a good rule usually, but with rogue drones we have nothing in PF to even create something that is not too far fetched... Unless you keep your RP to "I play a capsuleer human, and I try to learn things about alien drones that have been observed to be doing this or that (ingame or through chronicles)".
As soon as you start to introduce precise details about how they work, how their society works, or anything as such, it starts to get very speculative. And speculation can unconsciously lead to godmoding something that is not part of PF into someone else's RP.
Which is why I am reluctant in some cases.
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Is the Rogue Drone scene dead? Certainly except for UNIT the majority of the "Rogue Drone RP" I've seen in the last two years has been 'non-RPers' RPing (oxymoron right? not my words) 'Rogue Drones' themselves complete with generous amounts of binary spam in channels.
Yeah, essentially that's what it was.
There was a brief rogue drone RP effort year or two back, most of them got laughed and hazed out of the scene after a few months. Few remain I guess, I'm not really in the loop what's going on in the deepest depths of the Wizard Hatting community these days. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying be prepared have shit poured on you.
Shit like this pisses me off. It prevents interesting RP from evolving because of fear of retribution and general exclusion from everything. But luckily, Yuni's been doing an amazing job so far. Aside from AJ, I strongly suggest you talk to Yuni and get something going on there. Some friendly Rogue's might make it easier for Halete to go and understand/study Rogue Drone kind.
As a former member of that group and a player who was almost hazed out of the scene because of (yes, that was my intro to EVE RP), I can confirm it wasn't as nice of an intro to the RP community as it should have been. (Though I think this is around when Backstage began to really crack down on 'urdoingitwrongs' too)
FWIW, I still think that corp's idea of all members being tied into a single hive mind calling itself Entity is totally rad, regardless of how it ties into the already existing Rogue Drone PF. However, in retrospect, other than the eyeball rolling caused by a capsuleer calling itself a drone, perhaps the biggest issue was in how the corp presented itself as an extension of Rogue Drones and thus the PF in general? As opposed to a closed network of drones and/or messed up capsuleers of its own kind. Maybe a better route would be to leave it as implied rather than explicitly stated, and let other players reach their own conclusions?
At the end of the day though that corp did worldbuilding for itself, which is totally respectable and is more than could be said for many other corps.
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Rogue Drone Systems was one of the most fun things I've seen from eve RPers. Unexploded Ordinance, the sentient torpedo, was my favorite!
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Rogue Drone Systems was one of the most fun things I've seen from eve RPers. Unexploded Ordinance, the sentient torpedo, was my favorite!
LOL, yes, that guy's bio is awesome (https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Unexploded%20Ordinance).
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FWIW, I still think that corp's idea of all members being tied into a single hive mind calling itself Entity is totally rad, regardless of how it ties into the already existing Rogue Drone PF. However, in retrospect, other than the eyeball rolling caused by a capsuleer calling itself a drone, perhaps the biggest issue was in how the corp presented itself as an extension of Rogue Drones and thus the PF in general? As opposed to a closed network of drones and/or messed up capsuleers of its own kind. Maybe a better route would be to leave it as implied rather than explicitly stated, and let other players reach their own conclusions?
Thats basically how I roll with things. Hiveminds are fun, and you can honestly go pretty far with things, without having to go too far out on a branch to have content.
I'm also going to be extremely in the minority here and say I honestly rather dislike the way Yuni is presented, because Yuni has casually made a lot of IC claims about the nature of Rogue Drones that I don't think match the canon. Its not my character, but I tend to just not interact with her. Too much of a potential headache. No offence meant to the player or anything. I'm just...not a fan.
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RDS sure was hilarious. Brings back a lot of memories.
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RDS sure was hilarious. Brings back a lot of memories.
I find it more hilarious that people reminisce them now with fondness when they first hazed these guys out of the RP scene due to the Rogue Drone element. EVE RP Community is fucked up :lol:
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Rogue Drone Systems was one of the most fun things I've seen from eve RPers. Unexploded Ordinance, the sentient torpedo, was my favorite!
LOL, yes, that guy's bio is awesome (https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Unexploded%20Ordinance).
This...is awesome.
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Um...there's a rogue drone mind in Deltole you can do a mission for :S you have to get its embryonic mind back from other alvus rogues.
the mission agent in question actually gives you ORE standings. And that agent is all there is, and there's nothing to the arc besides doing those two missions that one agent gives. I know about her though. I've gotten enough people to go fail her mission and collect embryos for me to know all about her.
Well... except those missions provided by the Thukker agent Wrtuk Formur (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Algintal_Reports_1_-_Wrtuk_Formur).
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I'm just going to throw it out there that whilst the AI crowd like to weigh in heavily on the subject, I don't necessarily think it's the best way to go. Considering we're basically in some cases dealing with true sentience and that the field has advanced tens of thousands of years.
So, heh. I think the best assumption to make about how much you know about rogue drones despite all of your well-founded reasoning and logic, is that you know nothing.
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Just thought i should mention something...
Yuni's IC references to 'hive alvus' and their damaged core AI is from her own IC perspective...
Even Yuni doesn't know how the internal workings of the other hives are intended to work, after she and the other Units were attached to their AI they were left alone.
She has drawn conclusions based on the AI she was implanted with, but that does not mean that her AI is the same as the original Alvus AI, or the same as any other drone AI for that matter.
The fact that she sees the 'degradation' of their AI as a fault that should be repaired is very much her AI talking... her human side accepts that she and the rest of Unit are aberrations compared to the majority of drones.
in various rogue drone exploration sites and missions, you can meet 'sentient' drones... a lot of drones also drop 'elite drone AI'.... through her investigations into various drone sites and items, she has simply reasoned that the drones have deviated from their original purpose and become aggressive as a result...
considering that the majority of them were (apparently) originally construction drones... it is true that this has happened... though the reason is still... well.. :psyccp:
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I still think you can move this kind of thing forward with some well grounded science basics, lore knowledge, and some creativity. Like I said, Postnatal gives you a good something something to work with. What's to stop Halete from say...finding a small abandoned worker drone only to find its hardware integrated with nano-memetic wetware which, upon analysis, seems to have human DNA.
Ooh my...