Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE Corporation and Alliance Development => Topic started by: Seriphyn on 28 Jul 2010, 16:17
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So, EL-G was formed in the wake of things looking dire for the Gallente. Then after 3-4 months of going at it forever, along comes 2010, a mass wave of FW victories and, as a result, a crapload of RP ejaculated everywhere, including Federal nationalists, Intaki
racial supremacists culturalists and Caldari loyalists.
It was a pretty awesome time, though unfortunately it was short-lived. With the dissolution of Strix, I've taken it upon myself to do what I did with EL-G, and take the onus, though this time, there is no specific 'objective'. EL-G, despite me styling it for various other things, was goaled towards the liberation of Federal space from Caldari occupation. It did its 9 month lifespan, completed its objectives, and faded into the history books. Now, with this one, I would seek to do something more general, there are various options, but before I list that, some preexisting variables.
1) I enjoy the "military" RP that comes along with being a Luminaire General...going the corporate or megacorporate route makes me fidget uneasily a bit, as being a Federal officer as well as a corporate tycoon seems a bit 'eh'
2) In order to appeal to a wide enough base and playergroup, being able to justify any and all in-game activities with an RP foundation would be necessary. EL-G was all paramilitary.
3) It will be in the FDU.
Some options...
PMC
Gallente RP has huge scope for 'Blackwater' style stuff, as demonstrated by Strix. If you think to more general sci-fi, particularly in a near-future, Earth-based one, you have a lot of mix of corporate-government relations and interactions. Senators hiring mercs for protection yadda yadda. A couple of issues that need to be addressed...
- Strix has already done it
- How would you justify doing industrial activities?
Conglemerate
A mini-alliance composed of nothing but Role/title groups of various subsidiaries depending on what you do in game. "Guardian Services" for combat pilots, "Speedy Extraction" for miners etc. The issue with this is that it's hard to 'focus' on something specific, and generic corporation might be a bit bleh. Also, again, the space general CEOing it seems out-of-place, and justifying over militaristic activities (which I am a fan of) gets a bit eh
Supremacist organization
Mass Effect's Cerberus and stuff, a front corporation and organization dedicated to spreading Gallente influence by any means necessary, including dealing with criminals where necessary. As such, operating colonies, mining and building ships is all justifiable, as long as it pertains to the 'primary goal'. I am a fan of this one myself, but not sure if it sounds redundant, and maybe cliche.
Sorry if this post is a bit shit. I've had a very, very strong beer (7.5%)...but I would love to hear your thoughts! :D
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I can see the PMC very easily. I would think a number of them exist, and you certainly couldn't say that one corp couldn't form because another one did something similar once upon a time. You'd need to put your own spin on it, but I think you're capable of that.
With that said, why would you want industrial stuff? Just for recruiting? If the new corp is in the militia, I'd think that you'd do best focusing on fighting.
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:) Well personally for the industry stuff, I'd like to get into PI for passive income, and caking that with as much RP as possible I would like to do...because PI has LOTS of scope for RP fluffiness
Of course a name is an issue...Federal Auxiliary [Services], Federal Protection Services, Advance Federal, AdvanceSec, Advance Securities........
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Too bad PI doesn't have a corp interface or any ties to FW, otherwise you could establish a system in Gallente lowsec as your base of operations for such things.
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Why not a megacorp? Even if you primarily consider Seriphyn a soldier rather than a capsuleer, there's nothing wrong with a "retired" military officer setting up shop. Helps if he has the connections to the military so he has an immediate market for the stuff the corp makes. Possibly even a lucrative deal for the corp's "security division" (due to mechanics, entire corp) to enter the militia. And isn't Seriphyn a politician already? How that goes down with being in active service - armed forces usually need, for obvious reasons, be outside of the regular party politics. (Of course, there are lots of contrary cases where frontier politicians have also been military leaders, but the Federation is supposed to be a developed nation.)
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What about Consulting services? consulting these days covers anything and everything really.....you just need to lie between your teeths and always say yes to the customer :lol:
Regardless though, if you are going to stay in FW, PMC should be the best option. However since you want some PI background, i think a sister corp that is funded by the PMC but to enable development and reconstruction in a non-profit scheme would probably be a good option. Like saying, hey we are capitalists here, but pro-bono over there and both corps have the same shareholders.
Add culturalism domination and you are set.
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Didn't you say Seri has significant ties to the FIO? Wouldn't they have significant need for.technology development by defense contractors?
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Didn't you say Seri has significant ties to the FIO? Wouldn't they have significant need for.technology development by defense contractors?
I decided to use the Black Eagles infodump to set his status up as an SDII capsuleer, though this is secret to pretty much everyone unless they have close FIO ties. His public buffoonery is a lovely cover to making anyone think he is one xD
I think a mix of PMC and supremacist is what's on the cards...FALANX is the name I'm thinking, which is going from the Greek/Latin name schemes of Gallente NPCs (Federation Praktor Legionarius etc.)...the question is what it stands for...the anti-Nation channel exclusive to the Federation is...
Federal Alliance Against Nation Attacks
I quite like it, but need to alter the acronym for this context.
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You really have lots of options and room.
Quafe
You could play up the Quafe angle, especially since you have already established this connection.
Since losing State corporate status, Quafe could be looking for a way to increase its "patriotic" Federal corporation branding a bit.
There are plenty of other corporations that are Quafe subsidiaries.
Seriphyn really makes a good candidate for leading Quafe's sponsored nationalist-PMC.
Nation
The Nation story arc may not be around forever; you will want to have other motivations as the story of New Eden moves along. Tying your corporation's existence to an event has the disadvantage of "What happens now?" when the event ends.
PI
You can setup a corp to produce PI products (ie POS modules) for profit, but you need to be sure that production of the end-product is worth having 10+ players all contributing their PI time (say 30 min/day) to the corporation's efforts.
You will have to sell the corp outside the traditional RP community.
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Re: selling the corp to folks outside the traditional RP community, that's really something that can benefit a corp tremendously on multiple levels.
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Re: selling the corp to folks outside the traditional RP community, that's really something that can benefit a corp tremendously on multiple levels.
Agreed. Veto did this, and by doing so they established a reputation for themselves that everyone knows about.
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Okay, the marketing to outside of RP community is a big thing, but I would need to brush up on my FC and CEO skills...instead of just pure RP fluff leadership
I have been wondering if resurrecting EL-G with a new spin would be something. Instead of a direct Federal paramilitary unit, it would be a "paramilitary organization" and be independent of the Fed (at leasty overtly).
Activities such as mining and colonial operations would be less about the more corporate endeavour of generating ISK, but acquiring resources to contribute to EL-G's goal...
But yeah, biggest difference is that it's no longer directly Fed. it's hard to leverage that anyway.
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Activities such as mining and colonial operations would be less about the more corporate endeavour of generating ISK, but acquiring resources to contribute to EL-G's goal...
So, you are saying that members need to be entirely self-sufficient and donate to the corporation's cause. Sounds like how most corporation's work.
Being a freelance paramilitary does not seem unique enough to join up versus signing up for a more well established corp that does the same.
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Okay, the marketing to outside of RP community is a big thing, but I would need to brush up on my FC and CEO skills...instead of just pure RP fluff leadership
I have been wondering if resurrecting EL-G with a new spin would be something. Instead of a direct Federal paramilitary unit, it would be a "paramilitary organization" and be independent of the Fed (at leasty overtly).
Activities such as mining and colonial operations would be less about the more corporate endeavour of generating ISK, but acquiring resources to contribute to EL-G's goal...
But yeah, biggest difference is that it's no longer directly Fed. it's hard to leverage that anyway.
Ooo. Come do all the work for me in the Estate. You can be my general guy, and I'll sit there looking pretty, it'll be amazing. :s
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I was sorry to hear you had left from RK, but overall I think that in Eve the more focused your initial recruitment into a specific class of gameplay the better off you become in the long run.
If you decide you wish to become involved in PvP in the short term then focus on picking up people to join you who are into the same thing in the short term, but not hardcore pirate or anti-miner elitists. Then once you have established a bit of a base of people and have built up a slight reputation then announce operation of a industrial wing for instance and recruit players into that at a slower rate.
For the direction of your corp in a RP sense I think your best bet would be to go as PMC with ties to either Quafe or another gall based corp that spans a rather wide area. This will give you freedom of movement as you see fit with a fluid base of keeping people interested and sharp in a variety of situations. Working with FW is something I am not at all familiar with so basing out of lowsec on the borders of the fight might be a good idea on paper, but basing in High sec might work out better in practice.
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I have some ideas about this based on some thigns I've been thinking for a while.
It seems like every one of the empires has a big role-playing alliance dedicated to pursuing the ideals of that empire.
For example, the Matar have Electus Matari, Ushra Khan (or whatever they're going by now), Annwn Matari among others probably.
The Amarr have CVA. The Caldari have I-RED.
But what about the Gallente?
It seems like all the big Gallente rp'ers went into Faction Warfare instead of creating a big Gallente alliance.
There are probably a number of reasons for this. I mentioned this elsewhere and people suggested that the Matar-Amarr conflict is more ripe for role play and attracts more people, but I'm not sure about that.
It seems like the Federation needs a Federation-centric alliance. I get excited on a Role Play level, about the idea of the EL-G, Moria. Mixed Metaphor, etc teaming up, even though I know that's practically impossible. I feel like the Federation needs more than what it's got.
I've been wondering what this organisation would do, on a practical level.
Ideas:
Killing Pirates and bringing law to Placid and Syndicate.
Continue fighting Caldari in Black Rise.
Get some sort of Industrial wing going.
I dunno. I probably haven't thought it all through.
Thoughts?
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The Gallente have a rich RP community, though it is either fractured or heavily involved in FW.. which I like, though a Gallente Alliance could have benefits (maybe a tangible trade partner in eve... gah they are hard to find nowadays =( ), but I can see some difficulties mainly someone to lead it (and not give up) with combat/pvp in mind not pure industry or it will be targeted and crushed by some.
Any support to get such a thing going would have my full OOC/Backroom support =P
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I have some ideas about this based on some thigns I've been thinking for a while.
It seems like every one of the empires has a big role-playing alliance dedicated to pursuing the ideals of that empire.
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The Caldari have I-RED.
But what about the Gallente?
It seems like all the big Gallente rp'ers went into Faction Warfare instead of creating a big Gallente alliance.
There are probably a number of reasons for this. I mentioned this elsewhere and people suggested that the Matar-Amarr conflict is more ripe for role play and attracts more people, but I'm not sure about that.
a Gallente Alliance could have benefits (maybe a tangible trade partner in eve... gah they are hard to find nowadays =( )
Ishukone has I-RED, and there in lies an important difference between Federation-State RP conflict vs Matari-Amarr conflict. It is much easier for State-affiliated/Federal-affiliated organizations to step out and say "I don't like you, but right now there are bigger fish to fry" vs the Amarr/Matari.
As an example, if I-RED and say LDIS went to war (against each other), neither would cease to be State-affiliated.
I've been wondering what this organisation would do, on a practical level.
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Thoughts?
Here is my 2 cents: alliances are 0.0 organisms. Having an alliance of Motsu mission runners is pointless, join a single corporation. People talk about having unlimited standings, etc; but who cares if you hated enemy is no where near your operating area?
Unless the players have 0.0 goals, likely involving sov, an alliance is a "status" symbol of look we can waste isk.
Better to form and maintain the pseudo-alliance structures that FW has seen established.
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Here is my 2 cents: alliances are 0.0 organisms. Having an alliance of Motsu mission runners is pointless, join a single corporation. People talk about having unlimited standings, etc; but who cares if you hated enemy is no where near your operating area?
Unless the players have 0.0 goals, likely involving sov, an alliance is a "status" symbol of look we can waste isk.
Better to form and maintain the pseudo-alliance structures that FW has seen established.
I disagree.
An alliance is a way for a bunch of corporations who might be different in character, leadership and motivations, but who share over-all goals, to work together.
Electus Matari (the alliance) has people in it that I couldn't share a corp with for IC or OOC reasons, but who contribute in useful ways to the Alliance.
We have a reasonable collection of reds, most of whom are people we encounter from day to day inside the republic, and we do regularly run over the corporation standings limits.
One corp in the alliance is made up of French speakers. Their leadership speaks English, and most of their members know enough English to work in fleets, but they want somewhere they can hang out and relax without the stress of translating on the fly.
One corp accepts no Amarr trained characters, another accepts more dodgy characters. Having separate corps allows the RP to work, as well as the organisation. The stricter corp can go "Well, they're all a bunch of ex-criminals, but they can be relied upon to shoot at the right people, so we can work with them without having to have them in our corp" which means that people don't have to compromise their RP just to have more people in their cause.
Some players, and their characters, prefer more organisation and rigor. some prefer to be the mavericks and hot-dogs. Having an alliance of different corps allows those people to work towards a common goal (supporting and defending the republic) without having to "get on with" IC, or OOC, everyone else in the alliance.
It also allows us to attract new corps into the alliance without them having to give up everything that they've built up to that point. If it doesn't work out they can go back to being an independent corp without having to start again. This can be quite useful if you are trying to convince people currently in a corp to work with you to go in the same direction.
Thus, I think there are quite a lot reasons why an alliance can make sense without having to have nullsec goals.
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In terms of RP, we often do things that aren't 'best practice' in game terms, for RP reasons.
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Plenty of groups do things in-game that are far from best practice based on mechanics (non-RP pirate alliances fx).
Having an alliance of different corps allows those people to work towards a common goal (supporting and defending the republic) without having to "get on with" IC, or OOC, everyone else in the alliance.
I do not think anything you described requires a formal Alliance with its associated investment (an easy billion isk). Many of the points you provided can be done without the need for a formal Alliance (and may provide corporations with additional flexibility), by establishing shared channels (replicating Alliance chat) and mailing list (replicating Alliance mail).
The mechanical benefits (from my understanding) of a non-sov alliance are largely shared standings, wardec consolidation (likely w/o a cost savings)*, and no wardec limit.
*Alliance, say CVA, decides to wardec all EM - total cost 50m isk. Say instead EM was a loose association of corporations and CVA wardeced all those corporations - total cost 350m (7 x 50m/corp).
In terms of RP, we often do things that aren't 'best practice' in game terms, for RP reasons.
You asked on a practical level.
On a practical level, full participation in FW excludes formal Alliances. On a practical level, 1b isk investment buys you a clear mutual defense pact, 1 wardec captures all the formal Alliance's members (not necessarily a good thing), alliance maintenance fees (noise I know), shared standings, no wardec limit, and wardec consolidation.
I am presenting a different view point. It doesn't make either of us wrong, merely different.
If a group of Federation-aligned corps want to pursue an alliance, it is likely better that they first attempt a pseudo-alliance with a set of defined goals either in regards to FW or some other shared goal.
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I didn't mean to suggest that you were wrong; I appreciate the feedback.
I was just responding to the 'no point to non-0.0 alliances point.' I'm not sure I agree.
The whole point of the post was to say, from a Role Playing point of view, I'd like to see a Federation loyalist Alliance.
Name suggestions for entirely imaginary alliances:
La Fraternité
Les Aigles (The Eagles - that bird on the Gallente crest is an eagle, right?)
Fils de Liberté
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Sure I'll join ya.
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I do not think anything you described requires a formal Alliance with its associated investment (an easy billion isk). Many of the points you provided can be done without the need for a formal Alliance (and may provide corporations with additional flexibility), by establishing shared channels (replicating Alliance chat) and mailing list (replicating Alliance mail).
The mechanical benefits (from my understanding) of a non-sov alliance are largely shared standings, wardec consolidation (likely w/o a cost savings)*, and no wardec limit.
Another advantage is that there's no wait to war-dec someone. My understanding is that you need to have a corp vote for a corp to war-dec someone, but an alliance can do it without the vote. This is enough of an annoyance (and extra 24 hour delay) that some singleton corps create alliances just to avoid this.
*Alliance, say CVA, decides to wardec all EM - total cost 50m isk. Say instead EM was a loose association of corporations and CVA wardeced all those corporations - total cost 350m (7 x 50m/corp).
Actually, it's worse, since I think war-dec fees stack, so 7 wars would be 50+100+150+200+250+300+350 = 1.4B (I think - not in game to check, and have never personally had to calculate it).
However, I'd expect that what a hypothetical enemy would do is they'd war-dec one corp of the loose association, and not the rest. Stomp the singleton, and then war-dec the next. The only way for the other corps in this "federation of corps" to get involved is to counter-war-dec, and wear the increased costs. For Corps who end up in high-sec wars, Alliances really do help defend against aggressors.
And for all that, EM war-dec's pirates about as often as people war-dec us.
Late last year, several EM corps did leave the alliance and join the Matari Militia. We tried the "shared channel" and "shared mailing list". The lack of shared standings was actually a significant pain, since EM has an NRDS engagement policy, and frequent standings changes, which is a job that is amenable to economies of scale (There's no more work to set standings for an alliance than a corporation, yet all the corps in an alliance can share the standings).
After a month in the militia, most of the members were very happy to get back into the alliance, and reluctant to leave again without good reason.
I think that you underestimate the value of the psychological effects of being part of an alliance. I think that EM finds that psychological effect of great value, and once the alliance is formed, well worth the monthly price.
If a group of Federation-aligned corps want to pursue an alliance, it is likely better that they first attempt a pseudo-alliance with a set of defined goals either in regards to FW or some other shared goal.
I think this is a reasonable piece of advice, but I wouldn't do it for too long.
If you're looking for something similar to EM, I probably would try to tie your reason for existance to something other than FW. It's a bit broken to RP around.
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Yeah, I agree with all that.
Just a note, I'm not forming this alliance, it's purely hypothetical. I just wished there were one.
The reason I posted it on this board was to suggest a possible direction for the new EL-G, which Seriphyn was seemingly asking for.