Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Saede Riordan on 01 Aug 2010, 00:35
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Something that CCP seems to be trying to drive into our heads is the whole thing about how capsuleers (http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=15-06-10) are (http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=12-07-10) demigods (http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=26-07-10), we lord over the 'little people' of New Eden like a kid with a hose lords over an ant colony. Our names are spoken in hushed voices and we're seen as something greater then human, something so powerful and beyond understanding that we're practically worshiped. This is a really interesting angle to RP, and one I'm hoping to explore with Nikita and with Arci to a different extent, but I'm curious why this RP angle isn't looked at more, so some questions to look at, these are just starting questions to spur a discussion, but it seemed like they'd be a good place to start:
1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?
2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.
3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?
Disclaimer: I am well aware that many people do not RP like this, and I am in no way attacking them, or their choices of how they RP their character, these are merely discussion points to get a conversation going.
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1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?
I don't.
2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.
Simple: capsuleers still possess much of human psychology, and aside from the very real differences in ideology and morals, humans love "teams". It's the way we are. There's no reason for a capsuleer to compromise - he can't be killed by his opponents, so really, all he needs to do is outlast them
3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?
I can't speak for others, but the reason Vikarion doesn't indulge is because it would be "unsightly". Over-indulgence is a "Gallente thing", and, besides, what more does he need?
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I like to think I go past this character wise. I adhere to the fact that stripped of the barriers of protection (technology, wealth, lies and general chicanery) Goshien is very much flesh and blood. Laziness and not seeing a need for it, he would never have learned to fight. Nor even to really use a gun. If one were to get to him, on the ground, RP wise, he'd be a sitting duck for anyone who knew what they were about.
But inside that pod, that demigod status comes into play, and you're dealing with someone who can't die, and really has no consequences beyond finances. And he acts like it. Hence the asshole part. A part reflection of the basic internet asshole personality, Goshien very much knows their are almost no consequences to any of his actions, so does whatever he wants.
This is the part of the backstory I like. Not saying I disagree with any character choices, but I often wonder why there aren't more like him.
Granted, if we are just counting declared roleplayers, that last thought stands. If not, a large portion of the eve playerbase waving e-peens around can stand in for the rock star demi-god giant ego mentality.
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1. Because my character is human.
There is no point or time in her life that has caused such psychological change that would make her buy into the 'immortal demigod' thing.
Partly because in the Amarrian culture (as the way I see it) there are a few pretty good stop measures for it. There has to be, because Holders themselves (whom live for centuries) would be prone to such hubris.
Basically the religion, innate hierarchy of the Empire, concept of godflesh, pretty much keep a religious non-rebellious capsuleer from getting a bloated enough ego to consider herself a demigod.
The concept of all mighty God that has a manifestation as great as the Empire in this world kind of dwarfs the individual 'demigoddery'.
The hierarchy of the Empire (as in most the Empires) has thousands if not hundreds of thousands of individuals that daily lord over much more lives or resources that a capsuleer could even dream of that are way higher in the societys ladder that a capsuleer cannot really climb up.
Because capsuleers immortality comes with a price, their flesh becomes tainted in the cloning process (one of the reasons Takhmahl were driven out of the Empire) therefore cutting the lineage between themselves, their ancestors, basically their whole link to God gets severed in it to an extent. How an individual deals with it is up to themselves, Lall has done what she does best, follow her sense of duty.
2. There is only one God, only one Empire built in His image, only one way to serve Him.
Simple as that.
The Amarrian religion and culture pretty much plays on the concept that all the other cultures are inferior to the Amarrian one, so why waste time with them. They are filthy heathens anyway that will burn in the fires of Hell for all eternity.
3.ISK is an illusion created just for the capsuleers to have something to play with while the Empires give them the funny money for the resources that they give to their economies. All 'wealth' generated through them is just an illusion to generate the illusion of false 'elite' so that they can be more easily controlled by the factions that have trained them.
True wealth is spiritual.
True power is planetbound.
Capsuleers have neither.
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I can't speak for others, but Casiella certainly doesn't. She's a bit of a loner with her own (evolving) goals, and in fact while she tries to maintain some friendliness with the Cartel, she also has considerable connections inside the RSS. As a capsuleer, she's not bound to any nation and takes a much longer view to a time when all humans enjoy benefits on the scale of those our characters now enjoy.
That said, she's not trying to build bridges between anybody. That's not interesting to her. Why should it be? :P
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A sort of ironic topic, given how much of a hard time I'm given OOC for playing a character who is NOT an average Joe, in reference to question 1, and I do RP Seriphyn as a celebrity, commanding the fates of thousands under his employ, possessing many luxury residences and owning floors of stations that are less visited (such as in Placid), in reference to question 3
Capsuleers are big egomaniacs; womanizing is likely very common. A lot of us RP humble starship captains fine, but it just gets a bit irritating I'm consistently rapped for playing a celebrity capsuleer to the hilt :P But I am oversensitive in that regard.
Speaking of womanizing, sleeping with 10 women at once is far, far worse than popping a Battleship of 6000, right? :P
In reference to question 2, that is explained in another thread (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=708.0) for Seriphyn. A large part I bet is because I don't narrate my character's emotions, feelings and motivations in my RP posts, that people 'don't take the time to understand him'. But hey, I like him as he is.
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I think they are trying to drive home the point that capsuleers are vital to the interstellar economy, and wield alot of freedom and power. They are certainly elite, and their ability to clone not only bodies but memories certainly gives that immortal feeling, even if not entirely true.
1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?
Even demigods need to start their day with a balanced breakfast, sleep, and personal space away from their job. I'd never portray my character doing menial tasks though. That's what an armada of support personnel are for.
2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.
In the roleplay community, a majority of pilots are bound to factions. It's a good reference point to build allies and define your enemies quickly. Depending on the character's initial inclinations, I think it takes a certain amount of time in the interstellar community to develop a capsuleer mindset, but until then they still carry with them all the values they had with them prior to being one.
3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?
I think there's a certain element of reactionary behavior to new roleplayers who don't quite understand that being 'elite' doesn't mean you're important in capsuleer society. People step into RP being great generals or Kings of planets, killing millions and being asked by Empress Jamyl herself to take to the skies and defend the mighty Empire from the slave race! Our response is "ugh, the meglomania is sickening. I just want a down-to-earth person who isn't full of themselves.", and I think its natural to want to make that, but at the same time, there needs to be a balance somewhere.
Are capsule pilots '(in)famous', important, and influential? To a planet bound population that depends on them for jobs, or a spacebound society that relies on servicing or crewing their ships on stations, yeah, I bet they are real important. To empire corporations that employ them for the dirty-work jobs they can't hire anyone else for? You betcha! To fellow capsuleers? Well that depends really on how well you interact with us. Newbies with no record and are a day out of training school aren't going to be regarded for, well, anything.
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Anybody else feel that the whole "capsuleers as demigods" sounds a lot like White Wolf influence? WW games (which I love btw) are big on placing characters as mythic demigods (see Exalted, Aberrant, Werewolf, Mage, Vampire, etc) and play out how that power changes the person, erodes humanity, effects the world, etc.
The game didnt start with Capsuleers as demigods. Im kinda thinking WW might have something to do with that evolution.
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Anybody else feel that the whole "capsuleers as demigods" sounds a lot like White Wolf influence? WW games (which I love btw) are big on placing characters as mythic demigods (see Exalted, Aberrant, Werewolf, Mage, Vampire, etc) and play out how that power changes the person, erodes humanity, effects the world, etc.
The game didnt start with Capsuleers as demigods. Im kinda thinking WW might have something to do with that evolution.
Maybe.
I know I used to enjoy the hell out of playing clueless mortals on WoD MUSHes.
More of them really should have gotten eaten (or stomped) by those so-called demigods. Seriously. ;)
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1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?
Because, the way I've played him, Esna's actually afraid of becoming a demigod - not because he's afraid of the actual actions he would commit, but because he's afraid of becoming so far detached from his human side he would stop acting for the good of humanity and instead start playing as if he were a literal god, solely for his own amusement, and as such loose his chance to go to the Amarrian heaven.
2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.
Esna's interesting in this regard - rather than being loyal to a single faction, he's absolutely loyal to his vision of acting for the good of humanity as a whole; however, his view is influenced and presented through the lens of the Amarrian religion - he sees the age where the Empire could spread beneficial infulence by bapping the locals over the head with heavy sticks as long gone, and favors a more delicate touch now. Hence, he's perfectly willing to work for the Republic or the Federation (albeit not directly against the Empire or any of its allies) as he reasons that the spread of awareness of (still Empire-loyal) Amarrians who do something else than whack people and yell "Heathens!" will eventually lead to a situation where the Empire and its religion will be accepted throughout the cluster.
3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?
On one hand, Esna doesn't. He has taken over at least three abandoned deadspace mining colonies and refurbished them for his own purposes, he regularly makes use of his vast funds to pay for large security contingents, he's at least once bribed and threatened an agent into giving him some critical information, and (most importantly, in my opinion) he has used his near-unassailable status as a capsuleer to make reforms in his slave population that, were he a 'normal' Holder, would have had other Holders constantly attempting to take over his holdings, as he'd be thought to be weak and/or heretical.
On the other hand, for reasons discussed above, he's unwilling to descend to the level of using non-capsuleers as mere playthings. Hes very much still dedicated to the idea of working for the benefit of humanity as a whole.
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A sort of ironic topic, given how much of a hard time I'm given OOC for playing a character who is NOT an average Joe, in reference to question 1, and I do RP Seriphyn as a celebrity, commanding the fates of thousands under his employ, possessing many luxury residences and owning floors of stations that are less visited (such as in Placid), in reference to question 3
Capsuleers are big egomaniacs; womanizing is likely very common. A lot of us RP humble starship captains fine, but it just gets a bit irritating I'm consistently rapped for playing a celebrity capsuleer to the hilt :P But I am oversensitive in that regard.
You are consistently "rapped" because Seriphyn's celebrity is invented and forced. From the perspective of other capsuleers, he is a "Paris Hilton". He has not done anything that hundreds of other capsuleers have done and can do. He is not SirMolle, Karttoon, Darius JOHNSON, CYVOK, etc or Istvaan, Jade, or Verone. These are characters who have gained real notoriety and celebrity.
1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?
Dex does not hang out in bars, but he does enjoy normal food and sleeps. Normal food on station is expensive, eating a real steak on a station in deep space is far from cheap. These are indulgences on his part, he isn't eating a protein cake with vitamin enriched shake. Sleep, letting the body rest, does not mean the mind is not connected and working.
2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.
Actually, we can't go where we want. Dex can't go to Caldari Prime without getting shot at by Fed Navy for example.
Some of our characters see themselves as tools of their empire/corporation. They became capsuleers to better serve their empire/corporation.
3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?
Because there are 200,000+ other capsuleers and those are who we interact with in places like IGS, etc. A capsuleer may have as much wealth as a minor corporation to call upon and have thousands/millions of people in their employee, but every other capsuleer has the same if not more wealth and definitely the same potential.
Saying you are famous within Federal Freight for making the Placid Run 200 times and never losing a hull is very different than being famous for leading hundreds other capsuleers in assaults on on other capsuleer fiefdoms.
So, while each capsuleer may be a demi-god in comparison to the average base-line human, there are different tiers of demi-gods.
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1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?
Food: You know what tastes better than being IV fed for 24 hours? Anything. Jakiin will take an hour out of his day to enjoy a fabulous five course meal over "Protein supplement 28817" any day.
Sleep: Once again: Beds are comfy, pod gel is not.
Has an apartment: Actually the Torash family (No relation to that other Torash I found out about only after cribbing the name from a random Kingdom NPC) owns several continents and has multi-billion ISK assets in half a dozen systems. Why? Because he's a Holder. He expected to live for at least 200 years anyway, so the fact he can clone is no issue.
On an additional note, where did this "The Amarr consider cloning sacrilegious" stuff come from? I know we've been told they consider the Emperor and his Heirs to have 'holy flesh', but never once heard PF mention anything about souls.
Bars: Doesn't really go. Not his thing.
2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.
The Amarr are different from everyone else because they worship God, the Caldari are different from everyone else because they work for the greater whole, the Matari are different from everyone else because they're so focused on hating the Amarr, and the Gallente are different from everyone else because they believe in freedom and liberty for all. After being brought up to believe these things they're entire lives, the hell do you think that being given big ships is going to change this?
3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?
Because you're talking to someone else with the same power. You're talking to dozens of people with that exact same power. Ever hear of a thing called the 'monkeysphere'? Basically our brains are only made to consider up to about 150 beings as people. Everyone else is just lumped together into little bit-players. So when you interact daily with men and women who can control the fate of millions outside of that sphere, you don't judge yourself by how many bit players you can control. You judge yourself by how many people you can control.
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You are consistently "rapped" because Seriphyn's celebrity is invented and forced. From the perspective of other capsuleers, he is a "Paris Hilton". He has not done anything that hundreds of other capsuleers have done and can do. He is not SirMolle, Karttoon, Darius JOHNSON, CYVOK, etc or Istvaan, Jade, or Verone. These are characters who have gained real notoriety and celebrity.
The original topic is about how capsuleers are seen as celebrities amongst the general public. I would see little reason why Seriphyn would not be seen as such by the Gallente public, especially with his participation in the FDU counteroffensives. That is the dichotomy, being controversial amongst capsuleers, but celebrated amongst non-capsuleers.
It's right there in PF...The prestige enjoyed by the capsuleer is enormous. Apart from the celebrity status many of them enjoy they receive a number of other privileges (http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=jul03).
It's not invented at all, it has been created from the result of in-game actions. The "other capsuleers" who aren't RPers choose to remain detached from society a la Burning Life
EDIT: also, you have any idea how hard making ground in FW occupancy is? lol
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1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?
I suppose it's perspective. I largely consider him, as a Sansha, pretty run of the mill. That is, if I had a better idea of what the Sansha controlled Capsuleers operate as, he'd be more refined to fit in their ranks.
2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.
Mechanically speaking, the 7 year old standings system I believe plays a hand in this. It is cut into very distinct blocs and red vs blue logic. It is virtually impossible to have positive faction standings with two opposing entities due to how their omniscient logic works.
As to why Ghost is loyal to the Sansha above all else, ehh it's his home, basically. Rather crude to sum it up, but gets the point across.
3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?
Culture shock?
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Some examples of what Seriphyn gets up to that garners his celebrity status amongst the public...which is a result of his regularly participation in the war effort, and participation in the counteroffensives
- FDU spokesman, speaking to the press and public regarding current developments in the warzone
- Used as a face to promote the war effort planetside; this is a war being fought by capsuleers, so they are worshipped in this regard
- Visiting FedNav installations as a morale boost to the servicemen and women there, as they are at the mercy of the capsuleers after all, relying on eggers to defend them from hostile capsuleer attack.
- Being invited to interviews with media hosts, as a way of keeping FDU capsuleers 'in touch' with the society they defend
While there are others who are also leaders in the FW occupancy war, such as Val Erian, Hussain et al, Seriphyn (due to my status as a regular RPer) has stepped up to the plate as a representative. It's not a way to assert OOC ego, but a way to define my character. Which, IC wise, is massively about ego
Legend/hero status amongst capsuleers is a different story, and a different game, one I don't have the energy for lol
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The original topic is about how capsuleers are seen as celebrities amongst the general public. I would see little reason why Seriphyn would not be seen as such by the Gallente public, especially with his participation in the FDU counteroffensives. That is the dichotomy, being controversial amongst capsuleers, but celebrated amongst non-capsuleers.
It's right there in PF...The prestige enjoyed by the capsuleer is enormous. Apart from the celebrity status many of them enjoy they receive a number of other privileges (http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=jul03).
It's not invented at all, it has been created from the result of in-game actions. The "other capsuleers" who aren't RPers choose to remain detached from society a la Burning Life
You are right Seri, to the FDU grunt, baseline crewman, Seriphyn Inhonores is a celebrity.
But saying "I am celebrity amongst the FDU" or "I am a rising star in the Lai Dai Corporate community" is meaningless to the capsuleer community. Anyone can say that, have the in-game actions to back it up, and be accurate.
Our interactions are not with baselines to a large extent, they are with other capsuleers. It all happens in the background, whether our characters attempt to remain attached to their origins or enjoy their status. Real celebrities appear along the same spectrum from embracing their celebrity status and abusing it to wanting to not be known and treated as if they are "average joe."
It is acting as if our celebrity status amongst the masses matters with our peers. When each of the demigods has hundreds of thousands of worships, do said worshipers matter?
EDIT: also, you have any idea how hard making ground in FW occupancy is? lol
Seri, I realize it was only for a while, but I tried to play a Gallente Factional Warfare character, in your corporation. I was playing to try and capture FW plexes in occupied Gallente space when it was all occupied and when there seemed to be about 6 players doing it. So I have some idea.
I had to make a decision as to where to invest my game time, as Jonny predicted. I decided to use it on LDIS and industry.
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1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?
How exactly would an immortal demigod's behaviour differ with regards to sleeping, eating socialising and so forth? Especially when the person concerned has only been in that state for a handfull of years at best?
Now if you're asking why does my character interact with, say, his crew and the baseline folks in his corp. Well it's just good management technique to be seen to take an interest. Not only does it encourage the good employees but potential fraudsters are aware that their actions are under scrutiny by an immortal demigod. Also it means that he can better rely on them for protection in vulnerable situations like unpodding.
Why does he interact with the baseline people in his mother's clan and his father's circle in the marines? It helps him keep his status in perspective and gives him a sense of responsibility. I've also started playing up his concern and annoyance at people in those groups treating him with fear or envy.
2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.
If you don't pick a side in a conflict and stick with it everyone will consider you an enemy. However this doesn't stop a capsuleer from talking to people from other factions so, yes, it is possible that we are less ignorant of outsider cultures than is the norm amongst core faction baselines.
As for the outlaws. If you are a core nation type then you can interact with some in a limited way by way of bargaining and by way of trying to turn them on your enemies.
However, the Sansha, Blood Raiders and EoM are so far outside the mainstream that I can't see anyone else dealing with them in any other way apart from weapons fire and interrogation. If you play a maniac then, unfortunately, your socialising will most likely be with other maniacs.
I mean, do you like to pass the time with psychopaths in real-life?
Yes, I know some Sansha players had been making very creative efforts at giving a sympathetic angle to the Nation. However it would seem that this is not the way that CCP want to go. As of The Burning Life it's official. You are the Borg. Just as the Amarr got the cartoon evil overlord treatment in The Empyrean Age. No, I don't think this was a good idea.
And, yes, I know some of you will disgree but in my view those three groups are so extremely outside the mainstream as to be almost unplayable except within their own circles.
3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?
How would you portray this in roleplay? I'm not sure real rich people (who are the best contemprary analog for capsuleers) really pay much attention to the people who are serving them in their day to day lives. So how would you mention them?
I'd have to agree that the recent emphasis on this view of capsuleers may be the influence of White Wolf. This worries me as my experience of them (in the old World of Darkness setting) is that they came up with some good ideas, a lot of stinkers and can't seem to tell the difference.
Also, maybe they are better now but, they used to really, really suck at world building. I also never saw a scenario of theirs that didn't need to be overhauled completely in order to not having gaping plot holes that you could fly a titan through.
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I think developing any subcommunity of capsuleers can be challenging, and while they might be extremely foreign to us as players, with strong leadership and consistency they can grow.
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Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?
Because I think the line between normal human and immortal demigod is a pretty blurry one. Why wouldn't super-Joe want a steak or a bed to sleep in? Why doesn't Zeus want to fuck everything that moves? Right, right, he does. I prefer to think of my character as a human who has greater scope to enact his humanity within than I do to think of him as inhuman. I want a character I can relate to.
2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others?
Well, I personally don't. Simon likes the Federation alright, but our corporate interests have given us a pretty eclectic set of blues, with more on the way (hopefully). I think that the us vs them argument is one of making teams. Someone to support you, and others to oppose you. It's instant plot, which is not a bad thing.
3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do?
I'm playing Simon as pretty explicitly wanting the jet-set lifestyle that being a capsuleer provides. His sad-making angst is that he's realizing he's the smallest fish in a very large pond, and is trying to change that. Of course, I'd also exchange your enthusiastic 'so much more' for the slightly negative 'something other', but different strokes for different folks, eh?
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1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human?
Like others, I feel that Nicole and Deadie spending more than 12+ hour in the pod would be rare, though it can/has happened. All other times they would be doing other stuff that would keep them occupied otherwise I have no doubt they'd get bored D:
2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others?
Deadie's longest loyalty has been with the Sansha. Though before that she considered herself a Mercenary and after it she is a pirate with no loyalty to a faction in particular. She is loyal to Vince Pyrce, due to relationship, and respects the rules of Veto, but holds no love or hate for the Guristas as a whole.
Nicole on the other hand is loyal to a faction, the State.
As Ghost said the reason why people choose one faction is probably because of the dated Standings system.
3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do?
I personally don't see it downplayed at all. Almost all the private rooms of Capsuleers that my character's have been in would be way beyond the hopes and dreams of many of said Capsuleer's Crews or dirtside citizen's. The reason Deadie doesn't have some vast estate on some planet somewhere is it would be bloody inconvenient shuttling back to it after each outting of blowing shit up. So she brought an appartment on station and filled it with all the luxuries she wants at the time.
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Reply etc.
I think the primary problem is people mistake me for trying to RP a bigshot-amongst-capsuleer character, which I might come across as doing that. The issue with becoming a bigshot-amongst-capsuleer thingy is that it requires far far more effort, competing with fellow egoes etc. In addition, RPers are reluctant to accept FW as a meaningful outlet for achieving RP significance, for understandable reasons, such as :tonyg: and :brokenmechanics:* etc.
So even if I said that, Seri is the 27th top plexer out of over 20k, RPers won't care, cause FW sux etc. But FW is the primary way to be official defenders of a faction (at least game mechanically speaking). I have taken this and used it in Seri's RP, from a defining character point of view, because I realize that non-FW RPers will acknowledge FW as "the most important thing from an empire RP point of view", or whatever.
Except that pirate RPers are begging for pirate faction RP, even if they hate FW lol
* in CCP's defence, they have added ninja fixes to FW. In Dominion they reduced the required plexes to take a system from 32 to 24. In Tyrannis, they made defensively plexing in original sov space to more good than offensive plexing there. It basically means that it's easier to defend your own systems if you have at least SOME defensive player base
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* in CCP's defence, they have added ninja fixes to FW. In Dominion they reduced the required plexes to take a system from 32 to 24. In Tyrannis, they made defensively plexing in original sov space to more good than offensive plexing there. It basically means that it's easier to defend your own systems if you have at least SOME defensive player base
Side comment: very glad to hear this. Too bad I moved on. :(
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I think the primary problem is people mistake me for trying to RP a bigshot-amongst-capsuleer character, which I might come across as doing that.
It does come across this way in many respects, but part of this is the fact the "real" audience is capsuleers.
I am not attempting to nitpick you or your character Seriphyn, but rather use your character, one who claims his celebrity status within the Federal populous, as an example and a starting point for a wider question to everyone else.
When each of the demigods has hundreds of thousands of worships, do said worshipers matter?
CCP may be portraying capsuleers as demigods, but I do not think it matters in the way our characters interact with each other.
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TL;DR version: We're demigods to NPCs. Not necessarily each other.
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I roleplay Jonathan as a Capsuleer who while rather wealthy, prefers to tread his own path and make himself known that way. He doesn't flaunt his 'immortality' around his employees/crew and is relatively laid back, but staunchly follows a code of conduct that helps him, his crew, and his wallet.
All of his fancy stuff that a capsuleer might flaunt in a station or on a planet residence was installed or created in the holds of his freighter 'The Herald'; he does own a small estate on his birth world and maintains a small staff there when he decides to vacation.
As for interacting with people, capsuleer or otherwise, it is mostly from within the capsule as he stays in it unless docked and taking on new courier contracts for people or vacationing at his estate. He treats people how he would like to be treated, with respect to include his crew as working for capsuleers tends to be rather hazardous in most cases.
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1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?
I don't at all.
He doesn't have an Apartment, he has a horrendously luxurious penthouse on one of the top decks that overlooks the biodomes and stars. He sleeps in silk sheets every night, hones his skills on a translucent solid crystal grand piano, and eats the finest foods in the cluster.
He has a 100m pool on hand as part of his personal living quarters as well as a spa, gym, sauna, sparring ring and pretty much everything else he needs.
He has a number of personal assistants, his own executive security squad separate from his corporate security force, as well as his own personal physician, consultant and accountant.
Why live in a shithole when the cluster is at your feet?
2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.
He doesn't. He's subcontracted to the Guristas, but Veto Corp serve basically as a corporate army and navy. They work for the highest bidder, but are independent and politically and morally neutral unless paid to be otherwise.
Capsuleers are effectively a faction in their own right, so why limit your ability to cut a profit?
3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?
I wouldn't consider my character normal.
He's an extravagant bastard who throws billions around as pocket change, he owns a bar full of solid crystal tables, beautiful dancers and awesome entertainers that he can afford to run as a free house (meaning free food and drinks) because his business elsewhere is so profitable that it doesn't even scrape the surface of his bottom line.
I mean, he still loves to get dirty in his hangar messing with ships and rigs, still goes planetside, and still has stupid fun in random ways, but in the end he's still a capsuleer.
I never figured how people can justify their characters as being broke, poor, scarred, miserable constantly and suchlike.
It's always been one of my pet peeves for capsuleers when people emo out about characters being scarred to pull the sympathy vote. I mean... fair enough, keeping them as a memento of something awesome that you did, or a rights of passage, sure.
Having them there as a plot device to pull the sympathy vote doesn't wash with me, I mean, if you were that emo about them, you'd go down to the cloning facility and be like "you, doctor, make me a clone without this shit".
As for capsuleer characters in Eve who are roleplayed as 'slaves'... god... don't get me started. lol.
Anyway... I agree with you... there's a few different little things that make me thing "wtf", but in the end so long as people aren't claiming to be Spock or whatever, I tend to just play along with the IC view that the person is daft.
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My answers on these might be a little anomalous.
1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human? That is to say, a character who sleeps in a bed every day, eats normal food, has an 'apartment' in a station, and goes to hang out at capsuleer bars. Why do you portray your character as a normal human instead of an immortal demigod?
In one sense, I don't.
Aria never feels quite so alive, so "real," as when she is "being" a ship, stalking the depths of space. That, to her, is closest to what a capsuleer "is," and she can disappear for days or even weeks at a time into her capsule, adopting the ship's senses and identity as her own.
On the other hand, the fact that it's that easy terrifies Aria. She rationalizes her reluctance to "become a ship" full-time by various means, and is sincere about her explanations, but to a large degree she's really just scared. As a result, she (usually) maintains a rigorous schedule for practicing "being human," including preparing her own simple meals, continuing her monkish physical training, and dealing with others on a "human" level, including going to social gathering places such as bars and dealing with others face to face (not "actual" humans, however; she really has trouble relating to crew and even her personal staff, and avoids such uncomfortable encounters).
2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others? We as capsuleers are in a unique place, we can go where we want, and talk to whoever we want, so its perfectly reasonable for a Capsuleer to be friendly and loyal with both the Gallenteans and the Caldari. Why isn't this an angle we see more? Why do we see so much of an 'us versus them' rhetoric within the community? A community which, from what it seems to me, is in the best possible place to form as a bridge between these groups.
Aria currently acts as a "bridge" between the Caldari and Cartel factions, since she is emotionally attached to one group and circumstantially bound to the other. Also, because she does not consider stands on principle to be useful or constructive, she makes a hobby of puncturing other faction capsuleers' hard-line attitudes whenever convenient or amusing.
3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do? Even the poorest capsuleers are super rich by the standards of New Eden, we can afford lives of ridiculous luxury, we're effectively celebrities in the groups we have standings with, and we command the fates of millions of people individually, so why is this aspect of capsuleering so downplayed? Why do we play normal people, when we could be so much more?
As noted above, for a long time, now, Aria's experiences as a ship have had the crisp, vivid character of living reality, while her experiences wearing the body of a person she knows to be dead have taken on a surreal, dreamlike quality. This inversion inspires an existential terror, which drives Aria towards religion.
The Achura Shuijing sect values clarity above all, and, as Aria interprets it, goes a long distance towards explaining what is happening to her. However, for this to be useful, she needs to maintain a high enough level of understanding to monitor and interpret her own situation. In an attempt to maintain her clarity, Aria surrounds herself with an environment conducive to thought: simple, clean, and orderly. Much of the time, she maintains a lifestyle appropriate to a monk: simple meals, unassuming living quarters, limited furnishings.
In attempting to live a simple, contemplative life, however, Aria ensures that she lives like absolutely no one around her: the expense involved in acquiring a steady supply of fresh imported vegetables, fruit, fish, and tea is high; the simple, abstract artworks she favors are generally nevertheless very expensive; her expenditures on personal security are flat-out lavish. She also has a habit of casually converting sizeable swaths of station real-estate to her use: she once arranged for a large percentage of a closed deck to be converted into a "natural" garden for the sake of her own meditations and so that her slaver hound, Rui Shi ("Auspicious Lion"), would have room to run around.
Aria herself perceives no contradiction, here, but that does not mean that none exists.
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1. Why do you portray your character as an 'average Joe' human?
I don't. Vlad is portrayed as a machine, something that has evolved beyond humanity and it's weaknesses.
2. Why do you claim loyalty to one, and only one faction, at the exclusion of all others?
Vlad's RP loyalty is ultimately to himself. He does have loyalty to people he knows and his corporation/alliance.
3. Why do we as capsuleers limit ourselves the way we do?
Vlad is limited solely through money and or/game mechanics. For instance, if it could be done, Vlad would have no problem ransoming a planet for goods in exchange for not leaving it a barren planet.
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Because demigods bore the shit out of me.
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1. Why 'Average Joe'?
When I started playing EVE, I wasn't an RPer. That came later. I started this game, after hearing about it from a friend, with the intention of being a miner. (Crazy, I know. I'm the kind of guy that has fun playing Harvest Moon.) When I became an RPer, I of course had to account for my actions ingame pre-RPer status, so Saint became a miner. He became this commoner-status from-the-coal-mines average Joe who spent his companies big-pay off on making himself a near-immortal capsuleer for his own reasons (though of course he had a number of reasons he could give to the company to explain it as 'good for everyone.') It just doesn't make sense to me to have this guy who worked hard for everything and resents those who are handed everything to become a self-indulgent megalomaniac. That kind of thing takes time.
2. Loyalty
Saint fought in the crusades from the get-go of my RP, for a couple different reasons. The Empire is his home, his community, and his religion says it's God's country. Sure, he has a more egalitarian view than most Amarrians, but that really only applies among the Amarrian Empire. Outsiders be damned.
3. Limit
This was kinda answered by my number 1. It's going to take time for him to do a personality 180. Of course, I haven't limited him in the ways that he can work for what he wants, and rarely limit anything besides where it is that he would go given his demeaour and who he'd willfully interact with.