Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE Corporation and Alliance Development => Topic started by: Esna Pitoojee on 06 Jan 2013, 02:03
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Okay, so I'm writing this at 2 AM as more of a "here's an idea stuck in my head I want to get out" than a coherent plan, so I'm essentially brainvomiting here and I'd appreciate any constructive thoughts on the matter.
So.
Right now it seems to me that there are two major types of corps in the Amarr RP community.
One is the PvP-focused corporation - PIE and a couple other militia corps fall in here. Now, no offense to any of my good buddies in PIE (seriously I <3 you guys) but not everyone is ready - or wanting - to make that hard leap straight off from the Imperial Academy to the target-ridden depths of the warzone. Or maybe they're not interested in FW for other reasons. Or maybe they're intimidated by the hardcore rank structure thing PIE has going - point is, not everyone's up for such a heavy RPvP corp at this point.
The other type of corp is the individualized RP corp. These represent various RP-required homes for people who, for whatever reason, are choosing to put themselves in a corp related to their current RP state; the obvious issue here is that often these are incompatible with wide recruitment. A good example of these is Tyrathlion Interstellar (Morwen plz don't hate me). It's a corp which Morwen is in because of where her character is, and aside from a handful of people Morwen knows and cares about IC, there's not going to be much potential recruitment.
So. Here's what I'm proposing:
An Amarr-aligned PvE/light industry corp for those who do not fit into the two larger groups above. I would roll an alt to take the CEO position; however, much of the daily operations would be up to individual members to handle. I would have a hand in planning extended RP arcs or operations in the corp, but really more than anything I am trying to kick-start a corporation to fill a niche that I see lacking, and hoping that once I have assembled people under this house they will produce a community of their own.
Some thoughts:
- If people wanted to step up to handle specific roles in this (mining director, newbie teaching director, etc) I'd be practically jump for joy.
- I would not be comfortable with handing off CEOship for a while. Before I handed this to anyone, I would want to see them hold an 'officer' position for some time, so don't join expecting to take over in a couple of weeks (conversely, if anyone feels like taking this project and running with it from the start, be my guest! I'm not copy-writing the corp concept!)
- RPwise, this corp would be mostly aimed at defending the Empire against threats already within its borders - pirate raiders, corrupt Holders, etc.
However, every plan has its flaws, and here's my top 3 concerns:
1. The everyone's alts effect: Everyone contributes an alt, and then is on that alt 25% of the time, resulting in a huge memberlist but an empty corp chat. Frankly, I'd be just as guilty as anyone else, considering I'd not be moving Esna-prime in!
2. The absent leadership dilemma: Extrapolating from point 1, my concern would be that as this corp is at least in part aimed at picking up rookies not yet ready for low- or null-sec, those who would join would find themselves often without guidance or assistance and end up feeling as if they were in somewhere no different than the NPC start corp.
3. Stealing people who'd already be going to existing Amarr RP corps: My experience suggests to me that the gap I described above exists, but it's possible I'm utterly missing a corp or something. If this already exists, I do -NOT- want end up in a cuthroat competition with you for new recruits.
So, with the above said, why am I even suggesting this? Well, firstly because I have been asked if something such as this by others. Secondly, with that said, I am really hoping that if I provide the framework people will build on it. I'm essentially tossing a pebble and hoping it starts an avalanche.
With this said: Thoughts/ideas/comments/criticisms of my 2-3 AM brainvomit?
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I think there is definite merit in creating a lower intensity corporation for new/casual players to join. Providing it with a macro-story arc to follow will help as well.
It also acts as a "graduate school" once they leave the school corp, but it needs to provide something the school can't. My thought would be to recruit a core cadre which runs the day-to-day or week-to-week operations. The core Cadre needs things like access to L4 (or even L5 agents) and an expert in various areas of the game (including PvP!)
As the veteran Chairman of the Board, Esna sets up the structure and "campaign."
You need a high-level mission runner interested in FCing a squadron running a mission - think Tier 1 BC & a bunch of Cruisers running a mission! This teaches the newbie ship roles etc.
Another item to consider is an extensive Amarr centric BPO library for the corp. Total BPO Library value is probably less than 1B isk.
Just some additional ideas (the idea could be applied to any faction really).
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I think there is a need for such an organization. Your concerns regarding alts is well founded. But a few rules regarding activity levels can limit that damage. I personally have an "alt" on its own account, and would very much be interested in seeing you advance your idea. Amarr RP is very very different than Fed RP, but in some ways its more fun. DO IT!
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It does seem that many of the Amarr characters who would be a fit for a corp like this are in their own smallish and limited recruitment corps.
We did try to get something like this started several months ago with Anoyia's Exhortation, but that suffered from absent CEO and also never reached that critical point where there are enough active members to sustain corp activities. Everyone ended up leaving for PIE because that's where the Amarr RP was at the time and they were doing similar activities.
I'd love to see something like this and would support it, unfortunately my last few experiences have left me a bit disappointed.
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I tend to agree with Karmilla:
To be successful with something like that one would need an active CEO, willing to put a good part of foundational work into it and then one would need to cross the active member threshold quickly enough for people not to leave. The latter isn't quite easy as there is - in my experience at last - a lack of people who really want to do Amarr RP on the required level of activity: I have to say that I am not really willing to commit that much time, either. One would also need a good number of active Amarr RPer's to 'tutor' the newbies in the culture of Amarrian RP - as it is I think the Amarrian community is already too small to do that effectively, the veterans being spread thin and not very active and/or vocal.
Also, many people associate with Amarr RP mouth-frothing zealotry and racism, elements that imho play a role in Amarrian RP but don't lend themselves to make it very interesting. What brought at least me to the Amarrian side were those Amarr players that were (and are) able to convey that "Amarr citizens tend to be highly educated" and to keep up - all in all - decorum. I'm not quite sure if the Amarrian community is able to pass that on, still, especially given how prevailing anti-religious resentments are among the characters in EVE.
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Have you considered requesting command of a training division within PIE that operates away from the front lines for new recruits?
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PIE has it's own style of play and already draws a decent number of recruits. While they have a lot of things going on, it currently primarily seems to operate as FW/Lowsec RPPVP and draws that crowd. From my experience, there were a couple officers involved in PVE and anyone else realized they could be doing the same thing on their own and without a perma-wardec.
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So, what I'm basically hearing here is "make sure you have a core pillar of members to stand on (or with) before you do anything." Fair enough.
Thinking about this again, it's increasingly apparent to me that, as Esna!prime will not be in this corp, I will be limited to "social" roles in anything I do to support this, such as outreach and RP guidance.
With that said - and perhaps this may sound a bit selfish - but who among those who reads this thread can I chalk up as interested enough in playing a support/leadership role in a project like this?
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It's a bit of a double catch-22 situation, to be fair. Without numbers, nobody wants to join; without people joining, there's no numbers. Without activity, nobody wants to put their main in; without mains, there's no (guaranteed) activity.
If the idea behind the corp is to provide an entity whose selling point is an inward focus on the stability and security of the Empire, then it might be reasonable to see if people have spare mission-running alts that can be RPed with and "donated" to help get things going.
I don't have any such alts personally, but when I'm not busy with other stuff, I probably wouldn't mind coming and running a few missions with people as long as they aren't against the Big Four. Would be able to support the corp in that fashion at least.
Thanks for the shout-out though - it's more or less the way you described, but you might be surprised to know there have been one or two people I've looked at for recruitment. I might need to just put up a post in this area at some point to explain things. :P
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The best would be to see if you have enough similar factionally inclined (main) characters in the same situation to start something up. If not, then probably not worth the trouble.
Terra Matar for example took off pretty quick since the concept matched completely the need of a lot of Matari players, if I am not mistaken.
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The best would be to see if you have enough similar factionally inclined (main) characters in the same situation to start something up. If not, then probably not worth the trouble.
Terra Matar for example took off pretty quick since the concept matched completely the need of a lot of Matari players, if I am not mistaken.
Heh, well, as TRA showed 'taking off fast' doesn't necessarily translate into a stable corporation. There were various reasons for it closing which I'm not going into here, but despite that Lyn isn't completely wrong. At one point we had enough members online to have some pretty awesome (and semi-regular) fleet ops. So making a corp that matches what people are looking for is an excellent way to quickly swell membership, you just have to be reasonably careful about who it actually is you're letting in. As with any corp.
This was possibly the least coherent post I've ever made :l
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Since a handful of corps exist. Is an alliance a possibility?
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Since a handful of corps exist. Is an alliance a possibility?
Is this based on what the other posters have said, or an observation? I'm kind of not getting where you're coming up with the "handful of corps" in this case. :s
Anyhow, I've been keeping an eye on this thread, mainly because I'm one of the people who'd be interested in such a corporation. Been rather stuck in my own holding corp for too long, and I'd like to get into an Amarr aligned corporation that RPs. Problem is there's not a lot of those out there to begin with, with the exception of PIE. As much as I like most of the members of PIE ( :cube: to Mitty and Aldy), it's not a fit for me nor my toon.
So, yes. If Esna started this up, I'd try to be one of the first people to try and jump into it.
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Esna, unless you are willing to put the time into it, or you can find someone willing to put the time into it, well, being as gentle as I can, I don't think this will work. I tried to do this with Rho Dynamics several times, and it never took off.
Then again, you seem to have more of a direction than I did, and you're more social in game with Esna that I was with Sai, so maybe it would work for you. I will say that I have never seen too many people who want to PvE, PvP seems to be the drawing factor for a lot of people.
About the alliance idea though, before I left the game, I did make that work, getting a number of like minded corps together and haveing us all form an alliance based on mutual interest. So, here it would be like Tyrathlion Interstellar and all the other small Amarrian corps forming an alliance based on we're Amarrian and we like the independance of our corps, but we want to be able to band together to tackle larger projects. Actually, excpet for the Amarrian part, that is about the same pitch I used. Not sure if that would work out to what you want here.
But good luck, sorry I can't do more.
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how would you envision dealing with war decs ?
Any such corp would be a legitimate target for opposing RP corporations. It may also be seen as a "soft target" for war decs.
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That'd been a good practice for PVP ops, if cheap ships can be provided. And there's still the ally mechanic, meaning that a war against the corp would essentially be a free wardec against the attacking corp for (insert Amarr PVP corp here). Or am I missing something?
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Just to clarify, TYRIN will NOT be joining any alliance unless Reppy logs in and makes the application, because fuck alliance politics: we have our own ROE and policies, and we will not be changing them to make other people happy unless we would have done it on our own for our own reasons. Nor are we going to be cleaning up the shit of other people's poor decisions - as these two things go hand in hand with being in an alliance... yeah. No.
We were only used as an example of the kind of corp Esna was talking about. Don't mistake that, or my posts, for willingness to participate beyond helping getting things set up should this go anywhere.
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An alliance would probably be more trouble than it's worth, now that I think about it. At least at this stage.
Re:Rin - It's a bit based off of both. A particular and recent conversation that comes to mind is one I had in Imperial Congregation. 3-4 of us were discussing potential joint operations in a low-sec constellation. All involved were pretty much the sole RP representative of their respective corps.
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A formal alliance indeed would probably not be very useful, not the least due to the ability to have temporary allies in wars. Again, depending on focus, have you considered informal forms of co-operation, starting with a common channel and/or mailing list? The most important things a corp gives is the ability to fight hisec wars, to share hangars/wallets, have POSes and finally to shoot your own corpmates.
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I'd just like to chime in that I've tried to repeatedly make it clear that PIE pilots who do not want to participate in FW do not have to. Same goes for roaming in 0.0, WH exploration, or whatever.
Anyway, carry on :)
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CVA was an informal alliance back in the day.
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Okay, so some of you have guessed this from my non-responsiveness in this thread (although, thh, that has more to do with my wanting to see how the conversation would develop than anything else).
tl;dr - I will not be hosting the project at this time.
Long version: On discussions in-game with several people and looking over the responses here, I've come to realise that not only cannot I effectively dedicate the time to make this a working project, but that I feel it would actually be destructive of me to promise people an active home and then leave everyone hanging. Neither the veterans nor the rookies would come out of it for the better.
As such, I cannot take the leading role in this project.
I will happily hang out as an "RP advisor" or guide should someone else begin this project, and will even join you guys as a host for L4 Missions or other ventures.
I simply don't want to set up a situation where the well-being of the corp hinges on something I cannot give.
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I am sad you decided not to pursue it, but understand and respect your logic. If you ever do ;)
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I'd certainly be interested on one of my alt accounts.
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I am a bit late to the party it seems, but count me in as a strongly interested party should discussions revive again. I'd be happy to donate BPO's and help with the mining/industry piece.
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Hadn't seen this post before, but I believe you make the right decision. I was in a similair position six years ago when I decided to create the Ordo Quaesitoris, and after three long years, I can say that you can't really create a full corporation, and a succesful one, without involving yourself knee deep into it, and giving it all the time you have. As soon as it disapears, or is reduced, either you have grown enough to have a decent size (and it is growing a lot, actually!), or it will start showing your lack of guidance and, eventually, vanishing.
At least, that's my experience on the issue, and the main reason I don't bring the OQ back is because I don't have the time to re-create that niche position.
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A shame. As being new to Amarr RP and completely new to industrial characters, I would have enjoyed this opportunity to learn and get into an RP corp that fits.
Keep me posted.
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We did try to get something like this started several months ago with Anoyia's Exhortation, but that suffered from absent CEO and also never reached that critical point where there are enough active members to sustain corp activities. Everyone ended up leaving for PIE because that's where the Amarr RP was at the time and they were doing similar activities.
Being the absent CEO that Karmilla talked about, I can say without a doubt a new corp built around PvE RP will die without some form of strong leadership to build off of.
I would be interested in something like this if it were to happen, but I now know I don't make a good CEO.
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I got my start in EVE in a corp like what's proposed here, though it obviously wasn't actually Amarr loyal. If such a project were to take off again, and were I still playing, I'd be more than happy to help support it as a PvE and mission running guru on a character more suited to that.
If such a project is ever launched, let me know.
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It was a good try Kaz. If nothing else we introduced a new RPer to the Amarr Community so at least some good came of it.
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It was a good try Kaz. If nothing else we introduced a new RPer to the Amarr Community so at least some good came of it.
It was a good try, and if someone tries to make something like what we tried to do, or what Esna proposed in this posting, for the Amarr (or Khanid) block, I would join up with them.
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It was a good try Kaz. If nothing else we introduced a new RPer to the Amarr Community so at least some good came of it.
It was a good try, and if someone tries to make something like what we tried to do, or what Esna proposed in this posting, for the Amarr (or Khanid) block, I would join up with them.
I wish, but the idea has long since been dumped down the drain. Esna can't step up to be the leader that this corp idea would need (he's got his PvP and RL obligations first), and it didn't seem like anyone else would step to run it, either. :(
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I made a trial to get used to all the changes Kat was telling me about. (I still sit there for at least 5 minutes clicking the lower left corner before I realize they moved the undock button. >.< but it's only day two.) Once I get comfortable with the new ship classes etc I may actually try to get something like this up and running, but it depends on a few different factors the main one being if I could actually devote time and effort into EVE again which thus far has been a hard thing for me to do. Will keep those interested parties posted on that in here though. :D
EDIT: It would most likely be with a new character. There is a slight possibility that I would use a Khanid alt just because she has the skills for orca supported mining though I think I'd still have to grind for L4 missions, but most likely it would be a new character if I were...to do this thing.
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I would be interested, as well.
Perhaps some of us that are responding here should meet up and give this consideration?
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I'm currently considering to start a non-FW, casual-PvE oriented Amarr-Empire loyal RP corp. Will give updates.
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I have had some other similar echoes as well from players that evolved around the amarr bloc at some point and are not on backstage.
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Keirym smiles, "I think we should gather everyone and start it. Advertise it everywhere and run with it."
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I'm currently considering to start a non-FW, casual-PvE oriented Amarr-Empire loyal RP corp. Will give updates.
If you do, I may be interested in it.
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As I'm a director of a multi-faction non-RP corp (Alliance flagship corp) I'm sort of stuck where I am. :/
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Hello there!
By the end of this week, we will have the whole concept ready to go, recruitment will be started
by the beginning of the upcoming week. This means we will start a corp/project in the manner discussed above.
The far reaching goal is to create a base for the Amarr loyalist community, bound together in a coalition. The platform should be the amarr-empire.net forums, although I don't know if I get more access yet (I have some rights there already and contacted the admin).
The corp to found for this project's beginning will be some kind of a knight's order (the name we currently think of is Zarkara's Order) and will be enlisted with the 24th Imperial Crusade as well as be settled in Khanid and Amarr space.
The core principles are to be an devoted Amarr subject, NRDS and anti-piracy. The order, in addition, will operate under a Amarr-hulls-only policy and will have some racial restrictions (due to an elitist view, only Amarr, Khanid and Ammatar can hold leadership positions, others are restricted to be subordinates).
We intend to engage in every aspect of EVE, except for Nullsec life. We do have leading staff, but as we build this corp from scratch, rank-and-file-members as well people for leadership positions are equally needed.
Joining in with whole corps is possible as well, an alliance might or might not be founded later (maybe even several of them, like the Amarr/Khanid/Ammatar Protectorate).
If you are interested, just contact me ingame (character Gor Na).
Cheers,
Gor
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Hello Gor.
What you have in planning there doesn't sound like a non-FW corp, as discussed in this thread. You might want to open a separate threat for your corp,to advertise for it more appropriately.
- Nico
That said, I decided to give it a try and commit to building a corp. I will prolly have some ideas gathered this weekend and will propose what I envision for the casual-PvE, non-FW, non-PvP corp I mentioned above.
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Uh yes, I directed you here since I thought you might want to discuss with other people that seemed to share the same interests, non FW industrial/pve Amarr corp. I didn't know you already had something already in motion... This is not a recruitment thread...
I may have misunderstood what you had in mind, my apologies... :ugh:
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Hiho!
Hmmm, I think I didn't do well on explaining what we have in mind. If this came across as a recruitment thread,
I'm sorry. It wasn't intended to be one, I just figured that the "okay, let's do it now" message was supposed to go
here as well.
As for the FW-thingie: the order is supposed to be enlisted, but as we settle deep in Empire space as well, we thought
there would be the exactly right place for players like Esna described in the original post. Our approach is a broad one
for the simple reason, that gathering players to the point of the critical mass can be very hard (especially with RP-related
restrictions) and that having one corp to gather them all would be a good thing for starters.
I didn't want to rush in here with something unwanted and if I did anyway, I'd like to apologise.
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Another problem is that what you described already exists as PIE/PAUX, and is exactly the type of corp we are not looking to make. If we wanted one of those, people would already be there rather than discussing making a new corp.
People want an Amarrian RP corp that is PVE-focused, and non-FW. You really didn't satisfy either of those requirements with what you described above. :s
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The problem with being not PvP/FW focused and being in FW is that, even if you reside deep in Empire space, you're in a constant state of war and your enemies can get you even deep in Empire space. As Morwen pointed out, PIE in no way requires it's pilots to fly in the war zone (though it's encouraged), so it is already quite similar in that regard.
I for one like diversity, so I don't mind much that PIE/PAUX is quite similar to what you seem to plan, because there will be differences in personal alone if nothing else. Nor do I really mind advertisement. I simply thought that you might better reach those you have in mind in a seperate thread, Gor, as people look in here for something that is not taking a broad approach and includes FW, but an approach that explicitly excludes FW and PvP as far as possible.
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Is it not allowable for compatriots of this would-be endeavor to enroll themselves into the 24th, without involving the unity of the corporation? Those that want to participate can do so, those that do not, need not subject themselves to the further tension of heightened alert status constantly.
Or did I misunderstand the recruitment poster, and when you enlist, you leave your corp?
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When you enlist, or the corporation enlists, you can be attacked everywhere, and are barred from entering Minmatar and Gallente space as well. It presents no advantages whatsoever for non pvp folks in such a corporation.
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Lyn is right, being enlisted is a serious step.
The thing is, we already founded corps very similar to the proposed by Esna in the first place. The active one is Nebukah industries, situated in Khanid space, not enlisted and charged with production and trade. Another one is held by an Alt of mine, Bra'ak Zhahyanid and called Amarr 86th Home Guard. It's sole purpose is to function as a High-Sec-PvE-Corp (although I didn't make any steps to bring it into activity yet).
You might wonder, why I didn't talk about them before, I just hadn't thought that our newer concept is that uncalled for.
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Completely understand the risk. I guess my question was: When you enlist for FW, are you joining the 86th as a Corp? Or do you remain as a member of your current corporation?
The answer is the former, of course, but it took some research to spot that. I think I missed it the first time through.
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I think I caused more confusion than clarity.^^ (sorry for that)
Since we (Zacharias Nebukah and I) didn't know about other projects to further the loyalist community,
we decided to form corporations suiting that cause. That were the foundings of Neb-I and the 86th.
We recently discussed around and came to the conclusion, that a single corp engaging in all fields might be
better than several specialised corps (I have to add, that we estimated the risks of FW far off the warzone
pretty low and didn't consider any need to travel to hostile space).
At the current state, those two mentioned corps still exist, while that order isn't founded yet. I guess we should
rather wait before rushing forward pointlessly. If one of you guys wants to start something, I would support it if
I can. The other way around is fine for me too (if you would like to join in). I'd be happy to help the community
either way.
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A single corp, maybe with different leaders heading up specialized 'teams' would be a great idea. You could have a PVP team, an industrial team, a missioning team... and people can hop from team to team. If it were truly informal, your team leaders just set policies, events and standards and the participants join in as they want/can.
I like the approach versus all of the specialized corps that I am finding in research. I want to do it all, not be bound to requirements in one area. Not every one is like that, but most come off that way, which is why I hesitate.
The only thing that seems hard-lined is the participation in the Factional Warfare aspect. You are either in, or you aren't. From what I am reading and hearing, the only way to single-group the approach is two corps in an alliance. One for FW, one for everything else. I have yet to research whether a war declared on a corp in the alliance automatically involves every other alliance corp.
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You can not war dec a corp when the corp is in an alliance, you have to war dec the whole alliance. An alliance is by definition a group of people defending each other in the first place after all.
You can enlist either yourself (by joining the NPC FW corps like the 24th IC, the TLF, etc), either a corp (with people inside), or either an alliance in a FW militia. But like for war decs, it has always to be the top layer that is involved, meaning that if you are enlisted in FW, you are either part of a NPC FW corp, or a player corp enlisted in FW, or a player alliance (with corps inside) all enlisted in FW through the alliance.
But otherwise Gor Na, what you propose is similar to PIE Inc - which is not a bad thing - but people here do not want specifically to be enlisted in FW.
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Considering all that is said, here's some thoughts on how it could be done.
We get ourselves a platform for communications (set up a forum) and use it to create an informal network.
Every loyalist corp can participate, there will be no alliance founded to begin with, cooperation will be made
on agreement.
As it seems there already are several corps suiting the concept (including NEB-I and the 86th), I can think of
other specialised services to be brought in. Logistic corps, such for training, maybe even ones who take on
outsourced recruitment. The Amarr space is vast and so is the range of possibilities. The only rules applied
should be the mentioned three (declared Amarr subjects, NRDS, anti-piracy).
I guess by doing it that way, we could include the discussed project as well as having PvPers within the community and
we could avoid dragging each other into unwanted difficulties.
What say you?
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I think I missed some posts here, but I will stick my head in and make two points:
One, is that what was proposed a few posts up rather significantly diverges from my original vision in that it bars any non-Amarr from having any leadership position whatsoever no matter their dedication and work for the cause, and also would operate under an Amarr-only hulls policy. This was not at all part of my original vision - the leadership thing was discussed with friends and it was decided personal motivation and dedication to the project should be the primary driving factors; the matter of hulls did not come up, as it had not been considered something that would even matter. I will further add that frankly, such tight restrictions seem to run against the idea of a "casual" corp, where people who are interested in being part of an Amarr community but not ready for the 100%, super-hardcore dedication Gor's proposal entails could reside.
Second, the FW thing.
Even beyond TRIAD's campaign thing, the concern I would have with being in FW is that it would present a significant hazard to mission runners and anyone operating out of the market hubs (i.e., Jita and/or Amarr). I think market hub camping by hostile FW people is still relatively common, and I know they will go looking at the popular mission spots.
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I'm not sure what certain people keep going on about, but if there's any confusion as to what this thread was originally about, here it is. Esna saw an issue, that there were a lot of Amarr players out there looking for an Amarr based corporation with a primary basis of doing PvE things in EVE (I was/am one of them). However, at the time of this thread's start, there were very few options for Amarr RPers looking for an Amarr based corporation. One, which is PIE/PAUX, who have already stated that they don't require people to do the FW thing. However, being situated in FW, that means there's a constant war dec over their heads, and having been in FW myself once, I know for a fact that being in high sec Amarr/Caldari space does not prevent Galente/Minmatar militia people from crossing into said enemy high sec looking for easy targets. The other possible option was CVA, but let's face it, CVA isn't what it once was, nor is it as RP focused as it use to be. Not to mention that's Null sec life, a whole different can of worms.
What Esna originally was asking for, was advise on if it was possible for him to run an Amarr based corporation that focuses on the PvE aspect of the game using an alt he would make just for this. Which meant, no FW at all. However, after seeing the advice given by other people, he realized he couldn't be the dedicated CEO that such an endevour needed, and dropped the idea.
I'm glad to see that this thread didn't entirely die, and that some are insterested in stepping up to make such a corp. It has potential, especially to help unite some of the more scattered members of the Amarr RP bloc who just weren't interested in PIE or felt like they wouldn't do well within PIE's walls.
Not to single you out here now, Gor Na, but the idea that you originally posted doesn't seem to fit what the OP was trying to do. Don't get me wrong, it seems like a good potential idea for another Amarr FW corporation (the war zone needs it, tbh), and could give another option to people in the Amarr bloc who are looking for the FW experience. By all means, go for it! It's just not the idea that was originally behind this thread, nor what peeks the interests of those who responded in this thread looking for something more casual and based in PvE.
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So....
FW wasn't the core point of all this the whole time. The main thing is to bring Amarr RPers together (one idea included
FW, but that was that one thing, the corp that doesn't even exist yet).
And now to really stick to what Esna proposed (and I had that in mind the entire time): all who like to get into high-sec
industry can join Nebukah industries. All that want to focus on PvE, can join the Amarr 86th Home Guard. People can of
course stay out of them and still participate. Membership is not a must.
This is no call for recruitment, it's a mere offer for those falling under Esna's description (and everbody else who likes to
play along).
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Well yeah either way it may be a good opportunity for every people interested here to discuss about something in common. Can be an alliance of pve/industry loyalist corps in high sec, for example ?
Not that i'm interested of course, but it would be a shame for the Amarr side.
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Aim: An Amarr-aligned casual PvE/light industry RP corp for those who do not fit into the PIE or (other even more dedicated) Amarr FW corps but don't want to have their own small corp.
Proposal:
A corp having an 'inward' rather than 'outward' focus. The corp won't define itself by outward appearances. Thus it will be:
-taking in Amarr as well as others.
-not limiting access to leadership positions based on race
-not limiting the hulls to fly.
There will be limits to membership, though. The corp will make some requirements in regard to those joining in. People applying should be
-loyal to God (as per Amarrian religion) and the Amarr Empire
-no fundamentalist religious nutcase-fanatics
-no racists
This doesn't mean that the corp is meant to be a liberal alternative to PIE or a bunch of anti-slavery activists. Rather as it won't have the benefit of outward appearance through ships and not allowing certain races in, action and attitude of the members must make clear that the corp is loyal to the Empire. For example acceptance of slavery as a means to bringing the wayward closer to God is a given in my opinion by Amarr religion. On the other hand that doesn't mean that one has to practice slavery (in fact this should be mainly restricted to Holders anyway) or that one can't debate on good practice in regard to slave holding (see Policy on Slaves).
I envision the corp as an association of people that work together for the greater glory of God and the Empire, without having need of too much of a hierarchy. In many regards it will be similar to PIE, but in some places where PIE is a paramilitary organization, the corp will more closely resemble a humanitarian and religious organization. Thus I gave the corp the working title "Imperial Skete": A Skete (from Coptic via Greek σκήτη), is a monastic community in Eastern Christianity that allows relative isolation for monks, but also allows for communal services and the safety of shared resources and protection.
A few quotes that give an idea of what I envison:
"Ora et Labora!" - Pray and work!
"Contemplare et Contemplata Aliis Tradere." - To contemplate and to hand on the fruits of contemplation.
"Pro Fide Propaganda." - For the propagation of the faith.
Given the above reasons it is probably not surprising that I took the liberty to orient myself on the PIE ethos and rules:
"Imperial Skete" Ethos
"Imperial Skete" is a community of individuals with common goals (outlined in the Mission Statement and Aims & Objectives). Pilots work together for the good of the Empire and the Corporation - not because they are ordered to do so but out of a sense of camaraderie, friendship and loyalty.
Financially members must make their own way in the world. However, loans for insurance and other purposes will hopefully be in the future available from the Corp. There is no restriction on the generosity of members to their fellow members.
Mission Statement
"Imperial Skete's" main focus will be fighting internal threats to the Amarr Empire and strengthening it from within as well as fostering good relations to it's allies. The definition of Empire includes the legitimate Empress, our Scriptures, our traditions and way of life. It does extend through this to what is commonly called "Greater Amarr". Internal threats include heretics, common pirates (also dubbed 'rats) and illegal activities of foreign powers within the Empire's borders. "Imperial Skete" will in this regard will mainly operate as servitor of the Empire in the form of it's and it's various institutions agents. Strengthening the Empire from within can take a variety of shapes, like supporting trade, industry as well as research within the Empire (and allied nations).
Aims and Objectives
-We will uphold our Scriptures and traditions and aim to spread the word through example and teaching.
-The word of our God is law and we will uphold the word of God as revealed by His mouthpiece of God in the mortal world, the Empress.
-We will act with honor and dignity at all times, in victory and in defeat.
Policy On Slaves
Emperor Heideran VII stated that slaves must be treated fairly, a sentiment our current Empress shares. The justification of slavery lies with teaching the slaves the ways of God and bringing them fully into the fold. We must therefore treat slaves fairly and aim to educate them so that they can be brought fully into the fold. If we do not, we go against the word of God.
"Imperial Skete" members are free to keep and trade slaves, within the bounds of their status by Amarrian law. Slaves are to be treated fairly and not be murdered in cold blood. There is no rational reason for such behavior, punishments according to the crimes of a slave are of course permitted.
==
So far, feedback would be appreciated!
-Nico
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Hey Nico!
Sounds very good to me.
I'd be up for it and bring a character in or two. As I think that some (or maybe a lot) of people
will support the idea, but are determined to keep their own corporation, we should still incorporate
Imperial Skete in a loose network like I proposed before. Reasons for that could be the handling
of wealth and assets, having an own theme, ... you name it. As the starter corp for the whole
project, however, a strong focus should be kept on Imperial Skete and joint actions be centered
around it.
We do have forums that could be altered accordingly, so if you like, Zacharias Nebukah and I could
host and handle this. As for the corp itself: would you found it or should I? I'd be happy and supportive
either way.
-
Aim: An Amarr-aligned casual PvE/light industry RP corp for those who do not fit into the PIE or (other even more dedicated) Amarr FW corps but don't want to have their own small corp.
Proposal:
A corp having an 'inward' rather than 'outward' focus. The corp won't define itself by outward appearances. Thus it will be:
-taking in Amarr as well as others.
-not limiting access to leadership positions based on race
-not limiting the hulls to fly.
There will be limits to membership, though. The corp will make some requirements in regard to those joining in. People applying should be
-loyal to God (as per Amarrian religion) and the Amarr Empire
-no fundamentalist religious nutcase-fanatics
-no racists
This doesn't mean that the corp is meant to be a liberal alternative to PIE or a bunch of anti-slavery activists. Rather as it won't have the benefit of outward appearance through ships and not allowing certain races in, action and attitude of the members must make clear that the corp is loyal to the Empire. For example acceptance of slavery as a means to bringing the wayward closer to God is a given in my opinion by Amarr religion. On the other hand that doesn't mean that one has to practice slavery (in fact this should be mainly restricted to Holders anyway) or that one can't debate on good practice in regard to slave holding (see Policy on Slaves).
I envision the corp as an association of people that work together for the greater glory of God and the Empire, without having need of too much of a hierarchy. In many regards it will be similar to PIE, but in some places where PIE is a paramilitary organization, the corp will more closely resemble a humanitarian and religious organization. Thus I gave the corp the working title "Imperial Skete": A Skete (from Coptic via Greek σκήτη), is a monastic community in Eastern Christianity that allows relative isolation for monks, but also allows for communal services and the safety of shared resources and protection.
A few quotes that give an idea of what I envison:
"Ora et Labora!" - Pray and work!
"Contemplare et Contemplata Aliis Tradere." - To contemplate and to hand on the fruits of contemplation.
"Pro Fide Propaganda." - For the propagation of the faith.
Given the above reasons it is probably not surprising that I took the liberty to orient myself on the PIE ethos and rules:
"Imperial Skete" Ethos
"Imperial Skete" is a community of individuals with common goals (outlined in the Mission Statement and Aims & Objectives). Pilots work together for the good of the Empire and the Corporation - not because they are ordered to do so but out of a sense of camaraderie, friendship and loyalty.
Financially members must make their own way in the world. However, loans for insurance and other purposes will hopefully be in the future available from the Corp. There is no restriction on the generosity of members to their fellow members.
Mission Statement
"Imperial Skete's" main focus will be fighting internal threats to the Amarr Empire and strengthening it from within as well as fostering good relations to it's allies. The definition of Empire includes the legitimate Empress, our Scriptures, our traditions and way of life. It does extend through this to what is commonly called "Greater Amarr". Internal threats include heretics, common pirates (also dubbed 'rats) and illegal activities of foreign powers within the Empire's borders. "Imperial Skete" will in this regard will mainly operate as servitor of the Empire in the form of it's and it's various institutions agents. Strengthening the Empire from within can take a variety of shapes, like supporting trade, industry as well as research within the Empire (and allied nations).
Aims and Objectives
-We will uphold our Scriptures and traditions and aim to spread the word through example and teaching.
-The word of our God is law and we will uphold the word of God as revealed by His mouthpiece of God in the mortal world, the Empress.
-We will act with honor and dignity at all times, in victory and in defeat.
Policy On Slaves
Emperor Heideran VII stated that slaves must be treated fairly, a sentiment our current Empress shares. The justification of slavery lies with teaching the slaves the ways of God and bringing them fully into the fold. We must therefore treat slaves fairly and aim to educate them so that they can be brought fully into the fold. If we do not, we go against the word of God.
"Imperial Skete" members are free to keep and trade slaves, within the bounds of their status by Amarrian law. Slaves are to be treated fairly and not be murdered in cold blood. There is no rational reason for such behavior, punishments according to the crimes of a slave are of course permitted.
==
So far, feedback would be appreciated!
-Nico
Sounds like a pve version of old KotMC :P
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Hello Gor Na!
Help in form of a website and it's management would certainly be most welcome!
Participation in a (loose) network of Empire-loyal corporations is quite in tune with the given mission statement and aims & objectives.
I will prepare posts for IGS as well as ACRC and then create the corp. I estimate that I'll be ready to get the thing rolling next weekend.
Also, I'm still not quite sure about the corp name. While i like the 'skete' part, simply dubbing it 'imperial' seem a bit bland? A little brainstorming/feedback in that regard would be appreciated as well.
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Hey there!
@ Nico: sent you a PM regarding the matter.
@ all: as there is a concept that reaches beyond Esna's initial proposals, should I launch a new thread explaining
the entire thing or does that go here as well? And I must say I'm amazed about how many people contribute here.
Guess I'm not used to it from other forums.^^ You guys are great.
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I will make in good time a separate threat for the corp. Also, just answered your PM.
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Okay, so I saw the description this morning but was out of the house and didn't get to answer until now:
Nico, the initial proposal you've laid out looks excellent to me.
Some thoughts:
- I deeply approve of the corp appearing loyal "in action in attitude" and using "example and teaching".
- Maybe the membership requirements should read something like "Loyal to God (as per the faith), the Amarr Empire, Khanid Kingdom, Ammatar Mandate"? Some other input here would be appreciated; I am unsure of how much you intended this to be Imperially-focused or now taking in the entirety of "greater Amarria".
- Regarding the name: I am not entirely sure here. Using region-specific terms or words certainly adds flavor, but can also be confusing at times. I know when I was back in The Peerage, I was told a couple times that the name was confusing to non-native English speakers, who had sometimes not come across the term before.
Gor: If you wanted to have a thread to discuss the network of Amarr corps you've been mentioning, I would be happy to re-label this thread for you once the new one goes up for Nico's idea - or you could start your own, it's up to you.
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Hello Esna
and thank you for your excellent feedback!
- I am aiming towards Greater Amarr, though I obviously don't want Mandate or Kingdom Seperatists in corp. I will think about the exact formulation but maybe something like "Loyal to God (as per the faith), the Greater Amarr as the nations of... united under God."
- Regarding the name I'm quite enamored with the term 'skete', but in fact it might be too exotic. I think I will also want to incorporate Ametat (which kept Amash-Akura from aging) and Avetat (which bestowed wisdom on him) in the name, as they are nicely representing the theological thought that the prolonged life of the capsuleer should be complemented by wisdom. I was just about to call it "Ametat & Avetat Skete" but then it's really by far too non-understandable. After having a look at alternative terms - convent, abbey, priory - I'm not feeling like any of the terms would be fitting too much. Input?
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Hoi!
Took a look into it on EVElopedia and thought of a few suiting name suggestions:
+ we could simply name the corp "Ametat and Avetat"
+ Ametat Collective//Avetat Collective (depending on whether we prefer
to be featured by strength or wisdom); would make a pretty good description on
what we are and how we follow our path
+ we could bring the Sefrim in (in a humble way of course ;) ), suggestions for that
would be Sefrim's Children, Sefrim's Followers, Sefrim's Servants or something like that
+ Imperial Skete; bland or not - it would still be suiting
I'd personally prefer to pick either Ametat or Avetat Collective, they just sound good
to my ear :D
As for the founding: I can take the time, so I'd found the corp and hand CEO-ship over
to you - Nico - as soon as you like. I found a station within the proposed HQ-system,
that is cheap and serves our purpose well.
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Hello.
I'd like to take the time to decide on the name, because I want to be satisfied with the choice even later on. Your suggestions are helpful in that regard! I'm not to sure about 'collective' it sounds a bit too much like the borg and brings up associations with the Sansha. <,<
As for the founding: I don't see the need to rush that. Financing the station hangars and such won't posse too much of a problem. I'm not sure yet about the HQ either. I' rather like to have everything prepared for a smooth start then have the corp now but not having everything thought out well. And honestly, I'd like to found the corp myself. ^^
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Hiho!
No problem there. You have my complete trust to make perfectly good decisions about name and founding date. Just tell me when we are to start, I will take care of support matters in the meantime (-->> forums). When you start ingame, you can either contact me via Gor, or Bra'ak Zhahyanid (will be my first character to be brought in).
Would you like to prepare a rank structure before founding the corp? We could give that some thoughts too.
As for the network-thingie: Nebukah Industries and Zakara's Order are happy to be part of it and to have close ties to this founding (I will probably address all this in separate thread). I really enjoy how this takes form.
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I will give fair warning and at the moment I'm thinking that I will be founding the corp coming weekend. I'm already thinking about a rank structure, though I'd like to keep it lean for now.
As to the network thingy, I will keep aware of it and post what I have to contribute in it's own thread once it's up. (Also I send you a PM concerning it.)