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[orange]

When similar statements are not merely enshrined in Hamas' charter but taught in classrooms and state-sponsored textbooks, the response is an apparent shrug.

Generally speaking, you don't expect better from terrorist organizations like the Hamas. You should expect better of countries and governments, which may be actually a good sign no ? I mean, if everyone was deaf and indifferent to what Israel does, it would be rather worrying, seen that way. It means people still hold them above mere terrorists like the Hamas and are offended to see them respond in kind (or even more).

Sadly, Hamas is both the government of the Gaza Strip, majority party in the Palestinian National Authority, and a terrorist organization.

[Desiderya]

QFT Orange.

[Morwen Lagann]

When similar statements are not merely enshrined in Hamas' charter but taught in classrooms and state-sponsored textbooks, the response is an apparent shrug.

Generally speaking, you don't expect better from terrorist organizations like the Hamas. You should expect better of countries and governments, which may be actually a good sign no ? I mean, if everyone was deaf and indifferent to what Israel does, it would be rather worrying, seen that way. It means people still hold them above mere terrorists like the Hamas and are offended to see them respond in kind (or even more).

Sadly, Hamas is both the government of the Gaza Strip, majority party in the Palestinian National Authority, and a terrorist organization.

And this is why I find some of the complaining about Israel punching back when rockets get fired across the border to be puzzling. Complaining about civilian casualties, fine, I can understand (and approve of) that. On the other hand, Hamas being what it is, it would not surprise me to find out they are deliberately putting military assets near civilian facilities just to make Israel look bad when they strike at them and there's collateral damage. If I were a betting person, I would bet heavily on that being the case.

But of the reaction to strike back in the first place? Uh... no. Sorry. I won't fault anyone for trying to crush terrorists like the insects that they are in response to being attacked. It'd be nice if Israel were a little more precise and better at avoiding civilian casualties, but expecting them not to respond at all to the attacks and tunnels being dug underground is retarded, full stop.

[Lyn Farel]

If you think that people actually complain about them striking back, I feel that you are gravely mistaken.

Note : also, can we stop that passive aggressive bullshit calling the opposite viewpoint retarded ? It's getting tiresome and rather inflammatory.

[Silas Vitalia]

Israel is pursuing a course of action treating the symptoms and not the causes.  They are going to do this every few years for eternity, creating more Hama's terrorists every time they blow up some poor family unlucky enough to be born in Gaza.

Many people feel it would be wiser to remove the support for Hamas: Stop running an apartied open air prison camp, give them back their land, stop taking more of their land.  Stop treating a million people like caged animals. 

Hamas is not an existential threat to Israel. Israel is already an existential threat to a million Palestinians.

The solution is a political one.

[Desiderya]

Hamas political goal is to remove the state of Israel and its people from the map. They sure will stop if they had success with their strategy of  terrorism and exploiting civilians in the first place.

[Ché Biko]

Look how many civilian casualties Israel is willing to make in order to decrease civilian casualties!
You know what? I find myself suddenly in support of new and numerous illegal Israeli settlements in Gaza. Send the colonists immediatly!
Maybe the Israeli army will be a little more worried about making civilian casualties when it's also Israeli civilian casualties.

Also, nice accuracy by Hamas, they've actually killed more soldiers than civies in the last weeks. Maybe that's why they kept shooting their largely ineffective missiles? So Israel would send them some soldiers to shoot at?

Where my tongue is? I dunno, maybe half is split cheekside. I think I'll bite it now, but my jaw keeps dropping.

[Lyn Farel]

Hamas political goal is to remove the state of Israel and its people from the map. They sure will stop if they had success with their strategy of  terrorism and exploiting civilians in the first place.

Might be easier to combat them if they don't have half the gaza population supporting them.

The lol thing is even when they use them as meat shields, they support them, which is rather telling on the effet Israel intervention has.

Israel is pursuing a course of action treating the symptoms and not the causes.  They are going to do this every few years for eternity, creating more Hama's terrorists every time they blow up some poor family unlucky enough to be born in Gaza.

Many people feel it would be wiser to remove the support for Hamas: Stop running an apartied open air prison camp, give them back their land, stop taking more of their land.  Stop treating a million people like caged animals. 

Hamas is not an existential threat to Israel. Israel is already an existential threat to a million Palestinians.

The solution is a political one.

It's a political game. Why would right wing governements like the Israeli one do otherwise. In either case they win, more radicals to vote for them, and a situation that never get resolved.

[Desiderya]

Which is why the Intervention isn't aimed at bringing peace and democracy into Gaza, but aimed at being able to guarantee the safety of Israeli citizens in the future. Call it a band-aid fix, but the assumption the Hamas situation will solve itself if you just give them all the opportunities in the world to 'destroy Israel' is inacceptable. Don't forget that success is equally good at radicalizing a population as is an oppressive enemy.

[scagga]

Admit I did step out of this thread before, so will simply share a link, of a moving speech in the Irish parliament lately on the Gaza carnage. Worth a watch.

[Lyn Farel]

Which is why the Intervention isn't aimed at bringing peace and democracy into Gaza, but aimed at being able to guarantee the safety of Israeli citizens in the future. Call it a band-aid fix, but the assumption the Hamas situation will solve itself if you just give them all the opportunities in the world to 'destroy Israel' is inacceptable. Don't forget that success is equally good at radicalizing a population as is an oppressive enemy.

More like shooting oneself in the foot rather than band aid fixing... Each civilian victim is 10 more hamas militants.

[Desiderya]

Whereas 1 dead Israeli civilian means 10 less, amirite?

[V. Gesakaarin]

My only view on the issue is that Israel is conducting the very same actions towards an indigenous population that practically every Western Democracy has conducted in their past. The only difference is that these days things like extreme violence towards the natives, mass relocations and deportations to free up land for exploitation for settlers etc., is seen as a bad thing because the West has moved past the requirements of Manifest Destinies, nation building, colonialism and Empire towards a more civilized age.

Supposedly.

[V. Gesakaarin]

I also doubt that in a scenario in which the U.S was no longer as energy dependent on all that Saudi oil there would be much care if Israel were to push the the current populace of Gaza and the West Bank into the Sinai and Jordan.

[Nmaro Makari]

Relevance to conversation - level 100