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[Teinyhr]

  If your character doesn't know the ins and outs of an area and their politics, maybe they should work with someone who does, etc. I'm just a big fan of characters 'staying in their lanes' when it comes to the fuzzy things, out of respect for everyone's focus and history, if that makes sense?

Hmm. While yes this does make sense, I think the Kahah situation is such, that one does not need to know the ins and outs of everything there to want to be involved. If all characters just waited for Kithrus to gain an audience with King Khanid, well, I'd guess evreyone would already be dead Dave. Or maybe not, but who knows.

Kahah is a 0.7, which is high sec, which means RKN all over anything that sneezes funny. 100% not saying YDIW, I think this is a great discussion. I'd probably have gone way lower than 1,000 but I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with the premise at all.  It's a warzone all of the sudden right? So you can argue that that means things are more confusing and it's easier to land a few teams here and there, or you can argue that it's less likely because the system is swarming with RKN and ground troops now. 

Yeah, pretty much my idea was that, the 1,000 for one is spread all over the system, so that makes a few hundred+ in Kahah III (originally 500 but many died before making to the surface because of AA) and rest everywhere else - not sure how many of the planets are actually inhabited, we know that at least 3 are. The 1,000 felt to me rational in a way that just a handful operatives could not drive much of wedge into the RK merry men, but any more units and it'd be more of an actual insurgent army and not just a group of people coming to cause trouble for the Khanid forces as well as help the rebels organize better.

-Immersion-breaking.  There's enough ISK and things are priced a certain way that just because you can do a thing in game doesn't mean it's not facepalming for everyone else.  I don't know what 'mercenaries' cost now but most could afford to buy legions and legions of them and show them in your cargo and say you are parking a freighter full of them in orbit to rain death on the populace/whatever.   Not a good look.

Hows the arc going anyway?

Depends on where you buy the marines, or freedom fighters. Marines I think are more plentiful because 20 or so always get left over from certain missions. For example in Domain 500 marines cost you almost 400 million ISK. But other areas like Jita they're way cheaper, of course. Usually spread around multiple star systems though, which is what I meant with if someone has the time and patience and the means to park them on the lawn, I think it should be at least acknowledged.

And as I brought up, you can't fight much of a war with just infantry, which is the only thing we really have access to at least in any signifigant quantities, if we keep the "in-game items only" measuring stick in play.
Even if you dropped 100k or 1 million marines to a planet, they'd be massacred by any capable planetary militia with access to artillery, bombers, etc. Sure they might have some MANPADs and indirect fire capabilities, but most likely nowhere enough or with good enough range.

Oh, and the arc is.. I dunno. Stalled, though I guess they're considering and maybe even monitoring what the players are doing and if they'll assimilate or further acknowledge it. No new news since monday, though that might change at any time.

[kalaratiri]

Quite possibly waiting for the end of the Crimson Harvest event, which, iirc, is this Sunday?

[Mizhara]

I wouldn't be expecting any shifts in the status quo. That's a bit above and beyond anything CCP has ever done. They've engaged a bit with the players, there'll be a news article or something 'resolving' that situation and we're going back to what was.

Maybe I'm wrong...

... rarely happens though. There's a reason the Prophet of New Eden tends to be right: Bet on the meh. Always bet on the meh.

[Deitra Vess]

For example in Domain 500 marines cost you almost 400 million ISK. But other areas like Jita they're way cheaper, of course.

Well that's a rip off, its ~100mil isk for 5k in Rens.

[Silas Vitalia]

All good, Teinyhr!

I think what I meant about 'staying in lanes' was more about, I dunno, organizational capability or experience of the character if that makes sense?

I wasn't saying that there's not room for most everyone to at least tangentially be involved with events, more that I like to see when people who would seem suited for the things going on are doing the things they've established they are good at, if that makes sense? Everyone is not good at all things all the time.

If my character is a high sec mining and manufacturing character, it might look silly to others if I'm suddenly solo piloting a cloaked warship past blockades into enemy territory and running an insurgent planetside campaign with a bunch of militants, right? Maybe this mining character would seem more fleshed out to others if they are working with another capsuleer who does this kind of thing, or we establish that they have little experience with this stuff but are just throwing money at baseliners to see what they can get done, etc. 
If this character is a pew-pew character and is running around low/null all day shooting people or doing facwar or whatever, maybe it makes more sense.

RE the initial incursion events, this was mostly a lot of fun for a lot of people with the usual nitpicking and edgelording all over   The Sansha loyalists got a lot of love and most of us were pretty happy for them.
I think one reason some people tended to go overboard on the planetside fluff was that this was sort of a 'big' dev event with 'large' stakes.
I mean you had dev actors invading entire systems spawning battleship fleets above planets and abducting millions of people, huge amounts of people in system blowing up hundreds of NPCs in a big fking laser show.  The sort of 'scale' of the thing tended to inflate capsuleer involvement, not to mention we were literally deciding how things would play out in real time, either we blew up the fleets or they abducted the populations, there were real/immediate RP consequences for in space performances. 
It was quite messy at times but it was pretty fking fun, too.

[Teinyhr]

All good, Teinyhr!

I think what I meant about 'staying in lanes' was more about, I dunno, organizational capability or experience of the character if that makes sense?

I wasn't saying that there's not room for most everyone to at least tangentially be involved with events, more that I like to see when people who would seem suited for the things going on are doing the things they've established they are good at, if that makes sense? Everyone is not good at all things all the time.

If my character is a high sec mining and manufacturing character, it might look silly to others if I'm suddenly solo piloting a cloaked warship past blockades into enemy territory and running an insurgent planetside campaign with a bunch of militants, right? Maybe this mining character would seem more fleshed out to others if they are working with another capsuleer who does this kind of thing, or we establish that they have little experience with this stuff but are just throwing money at baseliners to see what they can get done, etc. 
If this character is a pew-pew character and is running around low/null all day shooting people or doing facwar or whatever, maybe it makes more sense.

Oh yeah I gotchu, EVE's typically about not letting ones mouth write checks their skills or amount of friends can't cash. And I do agree with you on your points.

[MakotoPriano]

Re: status quo, to a certain degree CCP can't massively change the universe without a significant input of time and energy to change mission texts, backstory sites, etc. CCPers comment on it a lot with, for instance, their good fortune that Cash-Money took the throne instead of a male heir, as they didn't have to change all the gender references about the current empress; or their mixed feelings about Khanid's chances at that, which would've been hilarious for a lot of reasons, but would've taken so much work to pan out. In this case, it's not like Kahah's going to switch from Kingdom sovereignty to Republic, so-- what's the threshold for 'meaningful change'?

That said, as to the comment on lanes and such. Yeah, that's a reason why some of us haven't gotten in on these shenanigans. :x It's easy to stock up a giant pile of marines, but would it make sense for IKAME to drop an army group on the planet? :x

Still, having fun watching from the outside!

[Silas Vitalia]

That said, as to the comment on lanes and such. Yeah, that's a reason why some of us haven't gotten in on these shenanigans. :x It's easy to stock up a giant pile of marines, but would it make sense for IKAME to drop an army group on the planet? :x

Still, having fun watching from the outside!

Right, this is why an active fiction team with enough resources to 'spread the plot' is crucial! It's all Kingdom stuff this week or whatever, but the next one should be over in the State, etc. 

Don't even get me started on a Tash Murkon on the throne    I would have given several important parts of my anatomy to see G. Khanid II on that throne and the endless, endless RP mirth that would have resulted from the consternation from the legions of Imperial loyalists who had spent the last 5 or 6 years poo pooing on the Kingdom folks 

Re: Meaningful change, this is why I really wish they had a 'dynamic' security and sovereignty rating for highsec NPC to reflect plots.  How much more insane would this Kahah arc be if the system was temporarily .4 during the 'crisis' with spawns of RKN fleets, etc.  Or if some big new plot had x nation annex y system, let's see it in game, so everyone's standings matter and NPCs act accordingly, etc etc.

I have no idea how the under the hood things would work, but imagine if the devs had more dials to adjust for storylines, and they had managed to rework/update missions to make them adaptable or generic, etc.

[MakotoPriano]

Absolutely agreed on the mechanical components! I'm hoping FW's on CCP's radar, because it'd be bloody amazing if they managed to integrate a more generalized system that'd make that sort of thing more viable. As I understand it, the current system would require a lot of work to properly recognizing changing world states.

That said, CCP Burger's musings, while certainly fanciful, gave me hope for the sort of thing the recently-promoted people want to see. And given that Burger was responsible for the new NPC AI in some capacity and also has a love of story-telling shenanigans, I'm (very guardedly!) hopeful. A bit. A tiny bit. But hopeful.

[kalaratiri]

When asked by the (previous?) CSM to rate a series of potential jobs and fixes from "very small" (balance an underperforming ship) to " very large" (POS -> Upwell) amounts of work, FW was rated "large". It was expected it would take multiple teams at least 6 months to create a system CCP were happy to publish to the game. In that time period, other releases would limited to "little things" and quick ship balance passes.

Unfortunately CCP have not yet felt they have the time allocation to actually sit down and do it. 

[Mizhara]

Well, I kind of called it. You can't leave things this vague without players hurrdurring it up. First we had Vlad "I don't know how to not wildly overdo everything grimderp edgy style" drop dusters with nukes onto the planet, and now we have a literal freighter full of troops apparently establishing entire fucking fortresses planetside and having 'escort fleets' that can apparently take on the entire Khanid Navy, according to the IGS.

This is why you keep clear rules and level playing fields. This is why you need clear limitations. I already said it, I can very easily drop entire freighterloads of forces all across New Eden, it's easily within my financial and piloting capability to do so. Yet, it's obviously something you can't do as a capsuleer or things go retarded rather sharpish.

... and yet here we are.

This is why we can't have nice things and why we need clear rules for what we can and can't do. This fuzzy vague shit? It just opens up for this kind of nonsense.

[Teinyhr]

Oof. Yeah. Well, it's now CCP's headache.
I'm on the verge of going in to bracket mode in that thread and remind people that you know, roleplaying is not a competition but a collaboration, and typically roleplaying for others is considered very bad form. And saying "we will land a gazillion troops and save ALL the slaves and nothing can stop us" is very much godmodding when you are not the god here, CCP is.

[Samira Kernher]

For what it's worth, they're being inclusive by making it an in-space RP event. That's not a bad thing, IMO. Something can be doomed from the start but still be good for RP. I just think no one should be under any expectations that this will actually result in the landing of a whole army on the planet. Maybe a few escape/assault pods make it, and maybe there's some aftermath from debris and stuff, but no army is getting down there.

And it would be ideal, of course, for clearer rules on just what is and is not doable to be established for the future.

tl;dr: Content creation good. Actually successfully landing army on planet bad, because that opens up a massive can of worms if it works.

[Teinyhr]

tl;dr: Content creation good. Actually successfully landing army on planet bad, because that opens up a massive can of worms if it works.

Yep, I don't think anyone disagrees on that.

[Mizhara]

No one really minds content creation, but this is one of those situations where actually responding to it is a very finicky thing. CCP aren't going to sit there monitoring the system the whole day ready to spawn Navy to turn the freighter into a few light-seconds long smear in space. Having enough players sit around in Tornados to do the same is also a bit of an unlikely thing to see, etc etc.

This is just several things coming together making it a bit hurrdurr. The scale of it is just... no, we can't do this. It'd unhinge the entire universe and setting. So thus it has to fail, which means either CCP or others making sure it does, which is frankly a bit much to ask. It's sufficiently specific that it'd have to be countered in specific ways, rather than be open to more varied counter-play, etc.

tl;dr, it's going too far in a way that's just not very engageable for neither friends, enemies or NPCs unless the freakin' stars align in some cosmic coincidence of unfathomably low odds.

Content creation is great. Stick to the rules, and when CCP breaks the rules, play conservatively. Honestly, only way I see out of this one is if the player decides to write their own staggering failure into it all and play it out themselves, unless AmarrBloc manages to get decs and sizable fleets in play, which is not exactly something I've seen much of the last year.