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That crews from destroyed capsuleer ships make up a substantial part of Blood Raider harvests? (The Burning Life, p. 59)

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Author Topic: Pirate factions in FW  (Read 6492 times)

Joshua Foiritain

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #15 on: 22 May 2013, 10:50 »

The idea is lacking in game design insight and conceptual soundness. There's no strong drive for new mechanics, content, or otherwise that I can see in your proposal. If stapling the Pirate Factions to the existing militia is your proposal, why not just join an existing militia and not tie down developer resources?
Because as a Serpentis Loyalist i would like to support Serpentis, not the Caldari State. Sure you can argue helping the Caldari State indirectly helps Serpentis by disrupting Federation efforts but so does regular piracy and strip mining belts in high sec.

The difference is that including the pirate factions in FW makes FW more interesting, allows pirate factions to profile themselves as more then belt fodder and gives us pirate faction supporters a way to get those lovely loyalty points by shooting players instead of npcs. (fffuccckk shooting npcs)
The less sound method would be to develop a unique set of conditions for each of the Pirate Factions to influence lowsec instead. The Blooders are driven by Sani Sabik purpose and blooding motives; they can be rather pangalactic in their over all goals. The Sansha merely want revenge against the Empires, and although free-range Capsuleers are anathema to them, having them direct their carnage that way is useful.

Serpentis and Angels are ill-defined in ways that are conductive to galactic wide campaigns. They are the underworld of Empire civilization; they thrive in the illegal and criminal. The Serpentis particularly so; the Angels may have motives beyond that we do not know about yet. In that respect, though, they can be mainly based around stopping police activity. The Guristas are anarchists in general, so the Empires are a favored target, but their leader has a particular hatred of Capsuleers.
Obviously a system designed specifically for pirate factions would be preferred, the problem however kicks in with the fact that existing pirate faction content is hard to reach and thus not used a lot. Since not many players use it CCP is not going to dedicate any development time to it. Just look at all the various bugs they've ignored for years.

By including pirate factions in FW in a limited fashion, for example by not allowing them to capture systems but by only setting the pirate militias up with wardecs against the empire militias you expand on pirate faction related content with little to no effort on the part of the developers and you make pirate factions more accessible to the general eve population, which means it might eventually reach a point where CCP would be willing to spend development time on it.

As for motivation, most of the pirate factions have simple reasons to get involved;

Serpentis for example wastes billions a day on patrolling every belt in and around Federation space. Possibly trillions if you take into account the loss of crew life (and thus training) not to mention the complexes and bases they have to rebuild every single day. Apart from massive grudge Serpentis holds against the Federation they need to think about business; this business if hampered by both Federation forces and Capsuleers in general. If handing out some loyalty points to get more capsuleers blowing each other up and in the processes creating more chaos along the Federation border then thats pretty much win-win for them.

Sanshas invasion of highsec is a giant failure, all thanks to capsuleers. Its safe to assume they'd be quite happy enlisting capsuleers to shoot other capsuleers, the more time they spent shooting each other the less they spent shooting Sansha forces.

All of the pirate factions have one or more reasons for wanting to destabilize low security space.

Giving pirate factions letters of marque for killing the Militia of the opposite faction would be doable?
Judging by how the FW system is setup this shouldnt be too much work. The only coding required would be a check to prevent pirate militias from capping buttons and a way to select which militia screen you want to look at when you open the militia window.

The problem with letters of Marque kind of approach would be that there would have to be overt co-operation by the empires with the pirate factions and CONCORD acceptance of the pirate factions themselves as something that should be dealt or bargained with, which would kind of go against the idea of law enforcement in general.
It would be for the same reason CONCORD allows pirate factions to be factions and protects their sovereignty from being conquered. Since no IC reasons are ever given as to why CONCORD supports the pirate factions its most likely because of bribery, CONCORD has always been portrait as pretty corrupt anyway.


At the end of the day FW offers an opportunity to add content to pirate faction side of eve with very little time required by CCP. Content which will otherwise not come because its simply not worth spending an entire patch coming up with new content for a part of the game that not many people use and the majority of eve will be locked out of due to standings.

If adding pirates to FW draws more players into that side of eve then perhaps it will become big enough for CCP to eventually iterate it into a more unique system.
« Last Edit: 22 May 2013, 10:53 by Joshua Foiritain »
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Karmilla Strife

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #16 on: 22 May 2013, 11:04 »

They could iterate the pirate factions almost identically to the existing militias. Just tweak them to give less LP for flipping plexes (still give some incentive since fighting over the plexes is a decent way to get fights) and more LP for ship kills.  Problems with this approach though are I don't know what they'd do about FW missions or turning in your LP since in some cases the nearest pirate npc station is several regions away. Maybe they could open some regions like they did with Black Rise?
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #17 on: 22 May 2013, 12:11 »

I'm not certain of the In-World function of FW.

If it is used as a way of defusing the risen sentiments for war within the empires then escalating the FW through adding the pirate factions into it would be counter productive.

Also giving out 'shoot the militias without repercussions, no wait you get rewarded for it' would be pretty much Insane for CONCORD.

Pretty much all of the ideas here would actually mean that CONCORD would be dissolved pretty much in no time at all if pirate factions would be allowed to take part in the FW.

Anti-pirate organization promoting piracy within FW?

Madness.
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Joshua Foiritain

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #18 on: 22 May 2013, 12:32 »

Well the problem with CONCORD is that from a storyline point of view it is equal to god but cannot act it because it would break the game. It has complete and utter control over every single capsuleer and can disable our pod control with the flick of a button. Yet it does not stop pirates from being pirates? Hell, it doesnt even stop us when we go and blow up CONCORD ships.

On the other hand; the empires are on the brink of war and it does nothing to stop them. It did nothing when the Caldari invaded Gallente space. It did nothing when people blew up the caldari titan and let it crash on an inhabited planet. It did nothing when Serpentis stole a Federation titan. It did nothing when Serpentis stole a Federation Nyx. It did nothing when Republic dreads entered Federation space and fought with Federation dreads. The list goes on.

Can CONCORD exert control over the factions? Very little it seems. Sansha roll into highsec with their capital fleet several times a week, CONCORD cant/wont stop them. So how it would stop pirate factions from handing out loyalty points to pilots who kill militia pilots? The entire processes is done outside of highsec and does not involve them at any point.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #19 on: 22 May 2013, 12:39 »

Will never happen, but I would put a hard requirement to have a negative security status to join any of the Pirate Factions.  -5 to -10 required.

Serpentis don't want no poseurs, yo.
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Karmilla Strife

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #20 on: 22 May 2013, 12:51 »

The security status requirement would also make it more approachable than going out to nullsec, doing missions until you have positive standing with the pirate faction.
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Pieter Tuulinen

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #21 on: 22 May 2013, 22:34 »

Meh - Faction Warfare isn't broken, but it gets pilots into low that mightn't otherwise dream of poking their nose over that border. Don't you think setting the nullbros on them would sort of kind of BREAK THAT INTO SMITHEREENS.

Capsuleer Nullsec Alliances have, over the years, shown all the respect and tender mercy towards newer/weaker players that a Cuckoo shows for the eggs that it displaces. FW would turn into packs of maurauding Bhaalgorns, wouldn't it?
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Gaven Lok ri

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #22 on: 23 May 2013, 05:24 »

The idea of pirates being able to sign on to support an incursion rather than having a FW mechanic is the only one I have liked in this thread.
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Synthia

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #23 on: 23 May 2013, 15:39 »

CONCORD will pay bounties for destroying CONCORD ships/property.

Game mechanic is mechanic.
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Makkal

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #24 on: 23 May 2013, 16:54 »

CONCORD will pay bounties for destroying CONCORD ships/property.

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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #25 on: 23 May 2013, 19:59 »

CONCORD will pay bounties for destroying CONCORD ships/property.

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Arnulf Ogunkoya

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #26 on: 24 May 2013, 05:35 »

CONCORD will pay bounties for destroying CONCORD ships/property.

"I never liked that asshole anyway!"

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Wot she sed.  :lol:

So, how could a hypothetical set of ratty militias be set up and driven avoiding the button orbiting mechanic.

Let's try to avoid an radical new mechanics to make it easier to implement. Any bounties could be paid by the pirate organisations themselves, they do seem to be rich enough. Maybe a simple tally of enemy NPC shipping exploded for LP gains? This would make an expedition into high-sec to shoot faction police or navy potentially very profitable. Also possible roams to shoot enemy pirate ships. With a bonus for opposition loyalist capsuleer kills, naturally.

Here's a thought. Maybe getting to sufficiently bad standings with a pirate faction will attract an automatic bounty from them, via the existing bounty hunting system? Yes, I do realise this means most mission runners will suddenly gain bounties (including me). I think that would be entirely reasonable and in keeping with the grimdark. Call it the anti-pirate's equivalent of -10 security status.
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Nmaro Makari

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #27 on: 24 May 2013, 08:35 »

It makes no sense, from a PF perspective, and a general common sense perspective to have pirates anywhere near FW, with the possible and very, very, stretched exception of Sansha's Nation.

Why? Well because I'm pretty sure that "roll tanks across the nation" isn't on the Triad's to-do list. Or on any criminal organisations list. Because they'd get raped.

edit: As an addendum to that, not even international, well financed terrorist groups are stupid enough to plant their flags in other people's shit. It's just a non-starter.
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Arnulf Ogunkoya

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #28 on: 24 May 2013, 09:10 »

It makes no sense, from a PF perspective, and a general common sense perspective to have pirates anywhere near FW, with the possible and very, very, stretched exception of Sansha's Nation.

Why? Well because I'm pretty sure that "roll tanks across the nation" isn't on the Triad's to-do list. Or on any criminal organisations list. Because they'd get raped.

edit: As an addendum to that, not even international, well financed terrorist groups are stupid enough to plant their flags in other people's shit. It's just a non-starter.

Ummm, did I say anything there about planting flags? I think you are all getting way too focussed on what the core militia's do and not thinking about what pirate militia might do. As for rolling tanks, I seem to recall all the pirate groups put a lot of resources into sending ships into low-sec and high sec. OK, so this is a game mechanic that makes little sense on close examination. But then neither do empire FW's core mechanisms.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Pirate factions in FW
« Reply #29 on: 24 May 2013, 12:43 »

All that veldspar needs someone to liberate it from the bolshevik oppressors.
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