Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE Fiction + Fiction discussion => Topic started by: Jace on 18 Nov 2014, 11:52
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I'm hoping this can stay a civil discussion and topic. Trying to keep it general so nobody feels threatened.
What are your thoughts on trends developing in the roleplaying community, or perhaps just segments of it, that are . . . wrong. Contradictory to PF, etc.
Perhaps the people involved interpreted things wrong. Perhaps they sort of made their own 'spin' and it took off, but then it starts to dominate an entire area of PF in a certain group (for instance, the trend in the past with certain Amarr roleplayers to have an extremely specific vision of the Amarr religion and throwing heretic around without a moment's thought if anyone does not portray a comic book villain version of an Amarr). Perhaps more PF is released later on that solidifies certain interpretations/conceptions, but the aforementioned people won't give up their pet concepts.
How do you as roleplayers handle that sort of situation? Find like-minded people and ignore the rest? Try to change the metaculture of that PF, fight against it? Etc.
It seems to me that at certain moments player-generated trends can be great, but other times they happen due to specific corporations and their membership's activity on the IGS or elsewhere - not because it has anything to do with PF, anything to do with how their faction or fiction idea actually fits within the EVE universe. Some of these become incredibly ingrained over the years, because the people that generate those trends or conceptions feel defensive over them and try to instill some level of 'authority' to it - as if going back to the PF and really examining it somehow would threaten what they have been doing for the past years.
Capsuleers are by definition independent to a certain extent. It is not at all inconceivable that a group of them start to have their own slightly 'off' interpretation of their identities - so it is not inconceivable from an in-character perspective. But when this happens, the people involved do not seem content to leave it to their characters but start to impose their player-created lore onto their entire faction.
How do you, as a roleplayer, handle that sort of thing? Ignore? Fight back? Find your own group?
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Prime Fiction = Historical fact or current events
Anyone proclaiming that the Holocaust didn't happen will be treated by me as seriously deluded or intentionally misleading others.
Anyone acting contrary to Prime Fiction receives the same treatment from my characters.
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Well, I don't think it's necessarily wrong to try to put your own spin on PF, or even to attempt to influence a metaculture with regard to that portion of PF, so long as you understand that in the end you are almost absolutely impotent in the face of the rest of the cluster (or, in other words, CCP's determination of history, as well as players' application of that history to their own arcs).
OOC, players tend to recognize this and I think it is natural for that knowledge to bleed into IC reactions toward that sort of content, where one common result is IC/OOC aversion to the generating character's or corporation's milieu.
As with player/corp/alliance interactions in the sandbox, I think there is a desire for a dynamic and evolving lore, which gives rise to interpretations that are sometimes problematic. I can't fault players for trying, but I try to simply step back slowly if I run into those interpretations, since I am not an authority to 'correct' anyone.
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1. try and talk to them OOC about the thing.
2. make a neutral toned thread in the background forum, stating the bits of PF that I know about, about the thing. Invite people to contribute bits of PF that they know about, about the thing.
3. If people still do the thing, then vOv
Without a specific example, I don't know how to really answer. But of course, specific examples can be controversial, so maybe PM me a specific example.
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1. try and talk to them OOC about the thing.
2. make a neutral toned thread in the background forum, stating the bits of PF that I know about, about the thing. Invite people to contribute bits of PF that they know about, about the thing.
3. If people still do the thing, then vOv
Without a specific example, I don't know how to really answer. But of course, specific examples can be controversial, so maybe PM me a specific example.
I understand the difficulty of not providing the example I have in mind, but I'm going to avoid it. I'm just curious whether people consider it worth combating or whether they'd just go their separate ways. It seems to me that this is a significant part of the fracturing of factions and groups, besides the standard OOC drama aspects.
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1. try and talk to them OOC about the thing.
2. make a neutral toned thread in the background forum, stating the bits of PF that I know about, about the thing. Invite people to contribute bits of PF that they know about, about the thing.
3. If people still do the thing, then vOv
Without a specific example, I don't know how to really answer. But of course, specific examples can be controversial, so maybe PM me a specific example.
I understand the difficulty of not providing the example I have in mind, but I'm going to avoid it. I'm just curious whether people consider it worth combating or whether they'd just go their separate ways. It seems to me that this is a significant part of the fracturing of factions and groups, besides the standard OOC drama aspects.
If it's a big enough issue, it's worth trying to resolve the conflict.
Like, if ships have crew on them, then it's worth trying to resolve it.
If it's something like, whether or not the earlobe is considered an erogenous zone in contemporary Mannar culture, then... vOv
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whether or not the earlobe is considered an erogenous zone in contemporary Mannar culture
Classic Lou post right here, guys.
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whether or not the earlobe is considered an erogenous zone in contemporary Mannar culture
Classic Lou post right here, guys.
The PF is quite ambiguous on this, critically important, issue !
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The one advantage we have is that CCP has set up most of the major empires/factions/etc in such a way that we can basically pick from our desired subculture, social movement, tribe, or whatnot. The issue is when a player or a set of players declares that only one interpretation is accurate.
For instance, the Caldari: are the Caldari all space fascists who sacrifice themselves for the Greater Corporate Good? Welllll... no. Are -some- Caldari space fascists who sacrifice themselves for the Greater Corporate Good? Sure. Absolutely. Run with it.
The variations on this are many, but that's my basic angle.
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Lou raises another point: in the absence of any pertinent PF, how do we measure the plausibility of player content, or its value within the subcommunities it is meant to inhabit?
Meh, I'm stuffed with flu medication and can't rightly turn this line of questioning back onto the original topic, so fook it.
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Lou raises another point: in the absence of any pertinent PF, how do we measure the plausibility of player content, or its value within the subcommunities it is meant to inhabit?
for like, Minmatar things, then something that has a nordic influence, is more plausible than something with influences from other languages/cultures, because of the nordic influence that CCP has given to Minmatar things.
Feels a lot less forced when it fits with things already established, than trying to make something entirely new.
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Though we should also be careful about assigning some kind of 'proper' influence to something that was likely just a quick borrowing. RCC Amarr comes to mind, in that regard.
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I believe in taking everything IC when and where possible. I prefer to avoid slipping into OOC criticism if at all possible.
It's a big universe. It is very easy to come up with ways for the existence of exceptions to the norm, and to therefore respond to it as an IC curiosity (or deviancy).
If it is something that really rubs me the wrong way, then I just try to avoid interacting with it too much. I might point it out OOCly if I know the person and think it might help, otherwise I'll probably just leave it alone.
In a previous RP community under a different universe, when things like this happened I tended to write long, heavily-sourced guides on the stuff that I saw as people widely doing it wrong. I prefer this kind of positive reinforcement through expanding public understanding and access to knowledge on the subject over the negative reinforcement of attacking people OOC for their RP.
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I would like to put Anyanka on the stake here. If any one finds her portrayal of Sani Sabik as generating the wrong content please use her as an example. I'd love the input.
This is the main reason I have stayed away from worldbuilding as well. Sometimes we see people's world building as totally excepted by the general rp community while other times we see people's ideas essentially shunned. I would love to write about Anyanka's childhood and reasons for the way she is. She is from a small underground city on Hek V. I would love to call that city Sjornjost and have her childhood friend named Halfrek Foley but I think that would somehow be copyright infringement to Joss Whedon.
New Eden is a big place so who says that I can't write Anya's history that way? But then again should I actually go post my idea on backstage for a very small groups' opinion on it or just write what I want to write? This is not a rhetorical. I really want to know. And "you should know the answer" is never an acceptable response to any question.
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IMO, write what you want to write unless you're concerned about it possibly breaking canon/being over the top. If you are concerned, then you can ask for opinions on it and, yes, you could start a topic here under the char development forums to request feedback. A few other people have done that in the past.
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IMO, write what you want to write unless you're concerned about it possibly breaking canon/being over the top. If you are concerned, then you can ask for opinions on it and, yes, you could start a topic here under the char development forums to request feedback. A few other people have done that in the past.
I think this is true. No one is going to kick a musician out of their first on-stage rehearsal for playing a sour note. It's hard enough to encourage people to roleplay in EVE without people jumping on you and telling you that you are doing it wrong. The prime fiction is a lot to read, and a lot to remember. It also contradicts itself in places, and there are a few plot holes or things that don't make a lot of logical sense. Yes, we should consider it as canon. However, everyone in EVE and RL is a unique individual with different perspectives, and the world(s) are always changing.
With 'roleplay' that doesn't seem to fit into the EVE milieu, such as James 315 and the 'CODE' of high sec, or people talking about how they are Time Lords from Gallefrey and the Sanshas are the Cyber-men, I just choose to ignore that as roleplay. My in-game, in-character explanation would be that they are insane from a possible booster addiction.
In the real world, how do we react if we see someone suffering from hallucinations and delusions, such as from schizophrenia or another mental illness? What if we encounter people spouting off about things that are nonsensical, such as having three hearts or being the brother of Jesus Christ or something? Most people would ignore them, and their family and friends, and a few trained professionals would try to help them.
I think that is true of the EVE world as well. If you care about them at all, talk to them OOCly if they are in your corp/ alliance/ social circle. Otherwise, ignore them if they aren't.
I think that's what this blog is useful for. We can discuss things here openly OOCly and point out clashes with prime fiction, logic, writing and role-play styles, and other generally constructive criticism. We generally don't have the opportunity to do that in the chat channels or Intergalactic Summit of EVE.
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I feel I should clarify my original post a bit.
The point I was making is simply that I respond to in-character conflicts with PF (as my character understands PF) in-character. I try to avoid criticizing anyone OOC about what goes on IC. If, for whatever reason, the situation can't be kept to IC without completely breaking immersion, or there's god-modding or whatever else, then I would first try to talk to the player and if that fails, the last resort is to avoid RPing with them.
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Well, just as an example, when I jumped back into the fray this week I mentioned that I spent the last 5 years as a clone soldier to explain my disappearance. Immediately, and rightfully, I was jumped on a bit because the two technologies of a DUST soldier and a capsuleer are incompatible. This is inherent truth backed up by PF and CCP Falcon himself. However, Visian didn't spend his time as a DUST operative. He just said he was a clone soldier. He also disappeared before the Sleeper technology was found. While he skirted around explanation when pushed for it, he's not really one to just spill all the secrets behind something. I have what I think is a good explanation for it when I get to writing it.
One thing I would point out is that I read somewhere on the EO forums that CCP Falcon said they couldn't be BOTH at the same time, which Visian never was. He was a podder, then a ground troop, then a podder again. It's a grey area based on what I've read. The indisputable truth is you can't be both at the same time due to the incompatibilities.
That being said, it's one thing to skirt a grey area. It's another thing altogether to go directly against PF. If someone new hasn't got the hang of it and they do that, Visian would just assume that maybe they'e a bit off-kilter like him. Then, I'd probably message them with some advice and suggest some chrons to read. If they still chose to be off their nut, Vapor would likely start suggesting that to them if engaged by them. My two cents.
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There is nothing wrong with filling out the parts of PF that don't have anything, in my opinion. Of course, if CCP then goes and changes a few things you have to live with those changes, since PF always trumps headcannon.
But at the same time, it's not unknown for CCP to take a look at things written by the RP community and work them into the PF. I am pretty sure that TS-F had an influence when Sansha's Nation got fleshed out a little bit when they finally started to take a look at the pirates and tried to make them less like comic book villains.
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As for generating content, it's a big world out there. The less the new content affects those who don't like it, the better.
Good: "On the lowsec Amarr planet I grew up on we have a holiday for St. Marv, the Saint of brushing teeth"
Bad: "St Marv is the god of teeth brushing, worshipped by every Amarr cluster wide"
YDIW has a direct correlation to the level of Mary Sue / special snowflake going on.
Some people are happy to play well in the very detailed PF sandbox, there's a million stories to tell and a million characters to be within a hugely wide sandbox.
Some people want to be legendary kung fu space princesses manually piloting their battleships from the bridge who own entire planets with day old characters flying shuttles with 5 isk to their name. *shrug*
As with all things its all about attitude, openness to outside criticism from the community, and ability to get along with others.
Unfortunately the limited nature of the EVE client means we have very, very limited methods in a shared game space to have a neutral "DM" arbiter of things. We're limited to things like ISK, PVP ability, in game character influence, etc as crude stand-ins for role playing.
So when space princess godmods herself a winning everything there's not much that can be done aside from ooc conversation and IIC group ignoring.
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I didn't know that capsuleers could never become Dusters. How does that make sense? What do the Space Marines do? How do the Dusters travel from planet to planet?
I didn't know that only holders could own slaves in Amarr either. I thought that commoners could own slaves as well.
When I was in a roleplaying corp, we had an in character channel and an OOC backstage channel. If someone said something which didn't fit in with PF, we could politely point that out in the OOC channel. If they stubbornly insisted that they were an Amarrian space princess or whatever, we just ignored it. They were told once, they didn't listen, the resources are there for them to consult by themselves.
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Though it can be uncomfortable, you should always try talking to people in these situations, if you can! It might just be due to a misunderstanding, or something pretty trivial, that can be set right with just a bit of discussion - And even if it can't, it's not the end of the world. But if you never try and all, you'll always end up with an awkward rift that might not even need to be there.
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I didn't know that capsuleers could never become Dusters. How does that make sense? What do the Space Marines do? How do the Dusters travel from planet to planet?
I didn't know that only holders could own slaves in Amarr either. I thought that commoners could own slaves as well.
When I was in a roleplaying corp, we had an in character channel and an OOC backstage channel. If someone said something which didn't fit in with PF, we could politely point that out in the OOC channel. If they stubbornly insisted that they were an Amarrian space princess or whatever, we just ignored it. They were told once, they didn't listen, the resources are there for them to consult by themselves.
Form my understanding, they can become DUST Bunnies, they just can't do both at the same time because of incompatible differences in the Jovian Tech of the capsuleers and the Sleeper tech of the ground pounders. I'm guessing at some point that some RPers were maybe saying they were both, which isn't possible according to the PF, CCP Falcon, and many others. Visian was never both at the same time, so I think I'm safe. Maybe. Unless people tell me I'm not at which point I will tweak.
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I didn't know that capsuleers could never become Dusters. How does that make sense? What do the Space Marines do? How do the Dusters travel from planet to planet?
Because Dusters and capsuleers work entirely differently.
Capsuleer: Has a normal, human brain. This brain operates like brains normally do. When scanned, it is destroyed and a new one is grown inside the clone, which is once again a normal human brain. For the scan and transfer to be successful, the brain structure and neural mapping must be extremely similar between the two.
Duster: Does not have a normal, human brain. Their core consciousness is uploaded into a computer database. Their clones, meanwhile, have a sleeper implant attached to their brain, and this implant is linked to the database. Their organic brain, meanwhile, has been scrapped in favor of a hypercharged cerebellum to improve their capabilities in combat. There is nothing normal or human about the duster's brain, and ergo doing a transneural burn scan of it would just create a brain dead clone. When they die, there is no flash scan, the clone just dies and the central database receives a brief burst transmission of only variations experienced by the 'life' of that clone, which it then adds to the central file. The database then connects to the sleeper implant in the next clone. In essence, dusters are fundamentally computers, not humans, and their clones are quite literally just shells. Dusters are the true infomorphs, not capsuleers.
Ergo, it is not possible to be both at the same time.
It may be theoretically possible to convert between the two, however. At the very least, going from capsuleer to duster should be easily possible due to capsuleers being functionally still human. But this is basically a one-way thing as you, well, stop being human. Going from duster to capsuleer is more difficult, but as the duster's core consciousness is saved in a computer database, one could theoretically, if having all the specifications saved from when the duster was still human, grow a new brain with the neural map of that consciousness. As this wouldn't wipe the computer database, this would result in two versions of the same person: the duster version, saved on a computer database, and the capsuleer version. Due to CONCORD restrictions about multiple copies of the same person at the same time, doing this would be highly illegal unless the computer database was wiped afterwards.
All of this is described in EVE Source. Notably, it says the same thing I do about converting between the two, "The very act would immediately make the receiving vessel into a different person. It would, as the technologies presently operate, be an inevitable forking of personality into two distinct beings."
That is, of course, assuming that the process of uploading someone's neural map into the computer database does not fundamentally change its neural map. If it does, then there won't be any converting back to human.
For the purpose of this thread's topic, this is a good example of how the situation could be handled. One option would be to just quote the lore and say, "You can't do it, period. Stop." The other solution is to look at the lore, consider the in-character theoretical alternatives that are possible within the confines of the lore, and consider the IC situation as potentially one of those. Thus there is always the option for variations in local culture, experimental technologies, and so on.
The former, arguing about the situation OOC, takes the whole thing OOC, and thus is not preferable, while the latter, contemplating IC alternatives, leaves it IC. That is much superior in my opinion.
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Dusties / Capsuleers / Valkyrie characters will be merged to service marketing.
Mark my words.
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Dusties / Capsuleers / Valkyrie characters will be merged to service marketing.
Mark my words.
They will, most likely. Which is yet more proof that, theoretically, conversion is possible. It may not be anything more than something undergoing research and development at this point in time, and so any examples of it by players right now can only be purely experimental test subjects, but it is fundamentally possible. Therefore, there is some level of freedom to be creative within this area.
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I didn't know that capsuleers could never become Dusters. How does that make sense? What do the Space Marines do? How do the Dusters travel from planet to planet?
Because Dusters and capsuleers work entirely differently.
Capsuleer: Has a normal, human brain. This brain operates like brains normally do. When scanned, it is destroyed and a new one is grown inside the clone, which is once again a normal human brain. For the scan and transfer to be successful, the brain structure and neural mapping must be extremely similar between the two.
Duster: Does not have a normal, human brain. Their core consciousness is uploaded into a computer database. Their clones, meanwhile, have a sleeper implant attached to their brain, and this implant is linked to the database. Their organic brain, meanwhile, has been scrapped in favor of a hypercharged cerebellum to improve their capabilities in combat. There is nothing normal or human about the duster's brain, and ergo doing a transneural burn scan of it would just create a brain dead clone. When they die, there is no flash scan, the clone just dies and the central database receives a brief burst transmission of only variations experienced by the 'life' of that clone, which it then adds to the central file. The database then connects to the sleeper implant in the next clone. In essence, dusters are fundamentally computers, not humans, and their clones are quite literally just shells. Dusters are the true infomorphs, not capsuleers.
Ergo, it is not possible to be both at the same time.
It may be theoretically possible to convert between the two, however. At the very least, going from capsuleer to duster should be easily possible due to capsuleers being functionally still human. But this is basically a one-way thing as you, well, stop being human. Going from duster to capsuleer is more difficult, but as the duster's core consciousness is saved in a computer database, one could theoretically, if having all the specifications saved from when the duster was still human, grow a new brain with the neural map of that consciousness. As this wouldn't wipe the computer database, this would result in two versions of the same person: the duster version, saved on a computer database, and the capsuleer version. Due to CONCORD restrictions about multiple copies of the same person at the same time, doing this would be highly illegal unless the computer database was wiped afterwards.
All of this is described in EVE Source. Notably, it says the same thing I do about converting between the two, "The very act would immediately make the receiving vessel into a different person. It would, as the technologies presently operate, be an inevitable forking of personality into two distinct beings."
That is, of course, assuming that the process of uploading someone's neural map into the computer database does not fundamentally change its neural map. If it does, then there won't be any converting back to human.
For the purpose of this thread's topic, this is a good example of how the situation could be handled. One option would be to just quote the lore and say, "You can't do it, period. Stop." The other solution is to look at the lore, consider the in-character theoretical alternatives that are possible within the confines of the lore, and consider the IC situation as potentially one of those. Thus there is always the option for variations in local culture, experimental technologies, and so on.
The former, arguing about the situation OOC, takes the whole thing OOC, and thus is not preferable, while the latter, contemplating IC alternatives, leaves it IC. That is much superior in my opinion.
I just ordered EVE Source today, so that is actually very helpful for me Sam. Thanks!
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Np. :)
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Dusties / Capsuleers / Valkyrie characters will be merged to service marketing.
Mark my words.
I imagine so. What is the rationale behind why capsuleers have a normal human brain (plus implants) while DUSTies have a cybernetic brain? From my perspective it should be the other way around. What takes more brain power, running around on the surface of a planet and pulling the trigger on a gun, or flying a battleship in space with your mind?
Even today, it takes more brain power to be in the Navy than in the Army. A battleship is a big machine full of other machines floating in the water. A soldier merely has to be physically fit and remember how to follow orders.
Also, I don't see the point in it. Is it just a bunch of technological mumbo jumbo to explain why CCP hasn't managed to make the DUST world and EVE connect yet?
For the purpose of this thread's topic, this is a good example of how the situation could be handled. One option would be to just quote the lore and say, "You can't do it, period. Stop." The other solution is to look at the lore, consider the in-character theoretical alternatives that are possible within the confines of the lore, and consider the IC situation as potentially one of those. Thus there is always the option for variations in local culture, experimental technologies, and so on.
The former, arguing about the situation OOC, takes the whole thing OOC, and thus is not preferable, while the latter, contemplating IC alternatives, leaves it IC. That is much superior in my opinion.
True. We can tell someone that they aren't doing their character in the right way, or we can accept that everyone has their own interpretation and personalities both in game and real life. If I say 'red bicycle', an image of a bicycle pops into your mind. Everyone may have a different image of a different bike, but which one is correct?
Prime fiction says that the Amarrians are religious. When the word 'religion' comes to mind, everyone has a different definition. Some of us may picture a corrupt Pope or the Spanish Inquisition, or Reverend Phelps and the Westboro Church, others may picture a Monastery full of peaceful, cerebral Monks or Mother Teresa. They may be prejudiced reductionism, but none of these are false descriptors for the word 'Religion'.
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Even today, it takes more brain power to be in the Navy than in the Army. A battleship is a big machine full of other machines floating in the water. A soldier merely has to be physically fit and remember how to follow orders.
Veering off topic but I'll take exception to that characterization. Today's ground pounders have much, much, much more to deal with, both information wise and tactically.
I'm not as well versed in this as others but if I recall current US and many other countries tactical doctrines mandate an extremely high level of 'autonomy' for small units, without the regimented command structure of armies like China / North Korea, etc. The idea is to be smart, fast, flexible, adaptive to any situation, instead of a giant hierarchical command structure that is paralyzed to move quickly.
So I'd say the reverse; that it takes in general less critical thinking to man a computer station on a Navy boat vs managing a rolling fight as say, a Marine.
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Though it can be uncomfortable, you should always try talking to people in these situations, if you can! It might just be due to a misunderstanding, or something pretty trivial, that can be set right with just a bit of discussion - And even if it can't, it's not the end of the world. But if you never try and all, you'll always end up with an awkward rift that might not even need to be there.
To get back on topic, I cannot understate how helpful this can be. I am always willing to reach out a friendly hand to someone who I think is 'violating PF' - heck, not just a couple days ago there was a situation where someone was being told they were overstretching their IC influence by claiming something. Turned out, people were taking what their character claimed at face value and assuming it was literally identical to what he was OOC saying the character had, which wasn't accurate at all.
To get back to the OP's question, though, when a trend becomes so widespread in the RP community that it becomes "accepted", I see nothing wrong with continuing to engage in friendly debate and pointing out the inconsistencies in it. There are issues which I OOC and Esna IC both feel are currently being addressed very poorly by the RP community, but rather than dumping a post going "you're wrong, and you, and you're wrong too", which would almost certainly quickly descend in a flamewar, I will continue to argue my points and represent my position.
If a character continues to insist on including things in their RP that I consider PF-breaking, I will probably just not interact with that character.
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Even today, it takes more brain power to be in the Navy than in the Army. A battleship is a big machine full of other machines floating in the water. A soldier merely has to be physically fit and remember how to follow orders.
Veering off topic but I'll take exception to that characterization. Today's ground pounders have much, much, much more to deal with, both information wise and tactically.
I'm not as well versed in this as others but if I recall current US and many other countries tactical doctrines mandate an extremely high level of 'autonomy' for small units, without the regimented command structure of armies like China / North Korea, etc. The idea is to be smart, fast, flexible, adaptive to any situation, instead of a giant hierarchical command structure that is too paralyzed to move quickly.
So I'd say the reverse; that it takes in general less critical thinking to man a computer station on a Navy boat vs managing a rolling fight as say, a Marine.
Possibly. Also in both instances the Navy and the Army in a time of war will take just about anyone that passes the physical. Then, they screen them to find out where they belong. A math genius will end up in artillery or the radio room, a tactical genius will eventually end up in command of a ship or a unit, and the less competent will be placed in food preparation or supply, or some other position of little or no authority. The Navy and Army are both large institutions with a variety of roles to fill.
Also, I think that Samira's explanation specified the cerebellum, which is the part of the brain responsible for balance, coordination, etc. So DUSTies wouldn't have cybernetic enhanced intelligence, just cybernetic enhanced athleticism.
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Making a new thread on some relevant stoof.
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Dusties / Capsuleers / Valkyrie characters will be merged to service marketing.
Mark my words.
I imagine so. What is the rationale behind why capsuleers have a normal human brain (plus implants) while DUSTies have a cybernetic brain? From my perspective it should be the other way around. What takes more brain power, running around on the surface of a planet and pulling the trigger on a gun, or flying a battleship in space with your mind?
Even today, it takes more brain power to be in the Navy than in the Army. A battleship is a big machine full of other machines floating in the water. A soldier merely has to be physically fit and remember how to follow orders.
Also, I don't see the point in it. Is it just a bunch of technological mumbo jumbo to explain why CCP hasn't managed to make the DUST world and EVE connect yet?
It's not a matter of processor power, it's a matter of transfer capabilities.
Simply, standard cloning requires the person to be inclosed in a small area where conditions can be strictly monitored in order for the burn scan to fire off safely. Hence the pod. This guarantees that there won't be issues of the burn scanner firing off too soon (or too late), because it can work under a very strict rule: Unauthorized breach of pod, fire scan.
This doesn't work on the ground because the burn scanner is too big to be lugged around and the conditions are too chaotic for it to judge accurately when to fire.
The sleeper implant, on the other hand, is capable of containing the entire conscious state on a digital medium within the body. As such, the brain itself can be converted into a monitor and control system. When the body dies, the implant likely remains 'active', because it is probably an independently-powered device. Short of a very unlucky shot striking the implant directly, the implant can operate under much more exacting conditions even on the battlefield, waiting until full body-brain death is verified before sending its transmission. In other words, it has a several-second larger window of opportunity than the burn scanner does, which is huge.
The most important reason, though, is that the sleeper technology is far newer. Capsuleers are still using technology developed a decade ago. Theoretically, there may come a time in which the sleeper implant is used in capsuleers instead of the older transneural brain scanner technology, but currently that is not the case.
Sources below.
[spoiler]The burning scanner raises the very problem of full mind-body cloning that the capsule solves. Since the scanner and its support systems are housed in a bank of equipment which requires close and stable proximity to the brain, it is in no way possible to wear the technology on one's person. Mounting the equipment in vehicles and even flight decks is problematic as wel, since the scanner needs to fire within a precise window of time, right at the subject's death. False stimuli, momentary separation from the equipment, or accidents that can take place in unsealed environments are all problems that can cause misfiring of the scanner. ...
The hydrostatic capsule provides a nearly ideal solution to the problems posed by the transneural burning scanner. in the first place, it is a sealed environment with a very clear set of tolerances and breach parameters. If the capsule breaches without the proper authorizations, the system assumes a catastrophic situation and instantly administers a nanotoxin that produces a reliable death process in the pilot. The burning scanner can therefore safely operate within the precise window required. Moreover, the scanner can and has been successfully integrated into capsule systems to take advantage of its power, data storage, and FTL communications capabilities.
- A Tale of Two Technologies, EVE Source[/spoiler]
[spoiler]... the mercenary clone is limited by cosniderations of transmission range. It has been established that the personality-transfer technology does not use quantum entanglement. A supersoldier who is accidentally abandoned on a planet for five years is in dire circumstances, because the life span of a mercenary clone's body is apparently no longer than that. He will die and lose fire years of his life. Still, he will return, because his core personality data is held in the vast databanks of his corporation's infrastructure. He may even have been assumed killed in action and reanimated into a new clone the day after being marooned, a rather undesirable eventuality that would end up essentially creating a second copy of the individual soldier.
The important point to realize about the immortal soldiers and the capsuleers is that they are very different beings indeed. They may both be infomorphs of a kind, but those kinds are distinct. The capsuleers re-create themselves in full, or at least as close as possible, every time they clone. Every scrap of neural data, every linkage in the structure of their brains, is transferred and reproduced anew. They crave the authenticity of the experience; any fleeting breaks in their consciousnesses are generally dismissed as unimportant.
The mercenary is different entirely. His brain structure has been altered to serve the needs of the cloning technology. His entire personality and essential being is shifted out of that brain--which ahs been rearranged heavily to act as a hybrid of primal being and highly efficient control system--and into an entirely digital existence within the neuro-interface socket (NIS) at the back of the neck. The information stored in this personality stack is everything that makes him who he is as a clone trooper. Everything else has long since been abandoned.
When the mercenary is killed, his NIS has only to transmit the new data that is not stored back at the CRU and MCC banks. In effect, it is a kind of personality data difference file. A powerful burst transmissio suffices to update the core stacks. The range of this transmission is debated, but it is certainly no more than orbital, roughly speaking--a far, far cry from the theoretically unlimited range of capsuleer quantum entanglement. The radically different nature and scope of personality transmission for the capsuleer and the mercenary should at once be noted. There is no sense in which a capsuleer can seamlessly transfer to a mercenary clone, or vice versa. The very act would immediately make the receiving vessel into a different person. It would, as the technologies presently operate, be an inevitable forking of personality into two distinct beings.
-Rise of the Clone Soldiers, EVE Source[/spoiler]
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Back on topic then.
Personally, I wonder if CCP shouldn't introduce some in game mechanic to encourage and promote roleplay. I used to play the text based game 'Achaea'. Since it was all text and no visuals, roleplay became easy and natural. Granted, a lot of it was through the story generated by the game itself.
One thing I do remember that I liked though, were the battle cry and the death cry. I think that adding these to EVE would help stimulate more roleplay. The battle cry would be a sentence that you choose before hand, which is shouted as soon as you activated a weapon. The death cry would be your last words as you were podded.
I am also wondering about things like in game religious Orders. It was quite thrilling for me in Achaea when I was finally accepted into an Order. The Amarrians are defined as being religious, but religion is a complex thing with many hierarchies, ranks and layers.
What I would propose would be the creations of religious Orders, possibly through a mailing list. These Orders would have a ranking system somehow related to role-playing ability and how it relates to the prime fiction. There would be quarterly ceremonies with rituals every three months, corresponding to the solstices and equinoxes. Ranks could be awarded based on participation and adherence to orthodoxy. Minmatar can have their lodges and societies, Caldari and Gallente can have their Temples and Shrines and so on. More than anything else, Religion (or lack of) culturally defines a nation and it's people.
What I tend to find immersion breaking are the people who think role-play is ridiculous. They make fun of role-players, and constantly refer to the game mechanics. Is EVE just a big chess game for these people?
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Dusties / Capsuleers / Valkyrie characters will be merged to service marketing.
Mark my words.
I imagine so. What is the rationale behind why capsuleers have a normal human brain (plus implants) while DUSTies have a cybernetic brain? From my perspective it should be the other way around. What takes more brain power, running around on the surface of a planet and pulling the trigger on a gun, or flying a battleship in space with your mind?
Even today, it takes more brain power to be in the Navy than in the Army. A battleship is a big machine full of other machines floating in the water. A soldier merely has to be physically fit and remember how to follow orders.
Also, I don't see the point in it. Is it just a bunch of technological mumbo jumbo to explain why CCP hasn't managed to make the DUST world and EVE connect yet?
It's not a matter of processor power, it's a matter of transfer capabilities.
So in some ways it is like the difference between a record player and an I-pod I suppose? They both play the same music, but if one is moved or not level enough the needle will skip across the record, but the more portable I-pod will continue to play the same song even if shaken, dropped, or immersed under water?
I wonder how that brain scrambler pistol affects those Sleeper implants?
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If a character continues to insist on including things in their RP that I consider PF-breaking, I will probably just not interact with that character.
This is what I am trying to avoid. My temporary solution has been to just switch what characters I RP with to avoid the issue in my long-time faction and that may be working out better than I thought. New fun things to write.
But most of the OOC contact I've had with the people involved literally responded with something along the lines of "CCP fucked up on that, they shouldn't have made that PF. So I'm going to ignore it."
There's really not much you can do with that.
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Lou raises another point: in the absence of any pertinent PF, how do we measure the plausibility of player content, or its value within the subcommunities it is meant to inhabit?
for like, Minmatar things, then something that has a nordic influence, is more plausible than something with influences from other languages/cultures, because of the nordic influence that CCP has given to Minmatar things.
Feels a lot less forced when it fits with things already established, than trying to make something entirely new.
In my opinion, the Matari, or at least Sebiestors, are a strange amalgam of Nordic and Caucasus tribes (i.e. Cossacks or etc) considering the environment they come from.
As for the 'doing it wrong'? I do not ignore those, but I have my character treat those people as insane...and interesting study material. Yes, Elmund's not a scientist. No, it's not going to stop him.