Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Seriphyn on 16 Jun 2012, 07:55
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Okay, I'm fed up of having an imagination and being unable to express it outside of writing because I am an MSPaint retard.
Who can draw uniforms to a standard like this (http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs32/f/2008/197/9/1/Starfleet_Uniforms_Circa_2400_by_madeinjapan1988.png) and that (http://madeinjapan1988.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=96#/d302v54)? Guy has some nice stuff, like this potentially Imperial stuff (http://madeinjapan1988.deviantart.com/art/The-Kingdom-s-Navy-Uniform-WIP-289476749?q=gallery%3Amadeinjapan1988%2F4244258&qo=14) and so (http://madeinjapan1988.deviantart.com/art/Alliance-Uniforms-New-WIP-2-274317322?q=gallery%3Amadeinjapan1988%2F4244258&qo=25) and so (http://madeinjapan1988.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=144#/d2k0fp9)
Community brainstorm ideas. I'm flagrant enough to throw money at someone for it. There's already plenty of material for Caldari laying around (some old AT poster on EVE's Facebook page has something, for example), stuff like this (http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSF_Vz9dQuNmuN752SOeAXtPtj5phhUe2pw_Ftx2q4_Y2Ar1Vtv6-A0eZyf) or this (http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs51/f/2009/265/7/0/Sci_fi_Military_Uniforms_by_Phunktionproduction.jpg) for Gallente. Drawing blanks for Minmatar, unless we assume a mixture of less regal Gallente with their tribal stuff.
If no one can, or doesn't know someone who could, it's okay. I'll just cry myself to sleep.
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I could but I have to admit that I am lazy and will have to find the motivation to do so. Will try to do something because I find it really interesting but do not count too much on me. Anyway, the more people the better. :)
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Requesting that if there is gender differentiation of uniforms they each show similar amounts of skin. If you think the Gallente women's dress uniform should have a miniskirt (as in the last reference picture) I'd like to see the men's equivalent with hot pants, and their top admirals wearing them for a formal engagement.
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Requesting that if there is gender differentiation of uniforms they each show similar amounts of skin. If you think the Gallente women's dress uniform should have a miniskirt (as in the last reference picture) I'd like to see the men's equivalent with hot pants, and their top admirals wearing them for a formal engagement.
I'm not sure if hot pants is a really equivalent exchange, because ultimately the skin IS being covered.
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I'm not sure if hot pants is a really equivalent exchange, because ultimately the skin IS being covered.
I can't really see Intaki taking to the idea, either, although maybe there's official uniform body paint for Mannar.
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Requesting that if there is gender differentiation of uniforms they each show similar amounts of skin. If you think the Gallente women's dress uniform should have a miniskirt (as in the last reference picture) I'd like to see the men's equivalent with hot pants, and their top admirals wearing them for a formal engagement.
Not much a fan of female uniforms with skirts either. About the only 'fair' exchange then is to have both use normal pants. Unless the female uniform uses a more skin-tight covering of some sort under the skirt, but how fair that is can be debated.
Or, alternatively both genders get a basic kind of 'covering' under the main uniform, in the vein of a jump-suit or the like, and then wear the uniform pants/skirts and jackets over that again. I've always liked that idea better - if your a crew-member of any rank on a space-ship, it makes more sense to use a sort of air-tight covering that can be sealed with the swift addition of a helmet, for instance. If you manage to make it thin enough to add a more normal cloth-based uniform over that, or make varieties of it with different coloring and/or markings to denote rank, well, it simply seems the far more logical considering their jobs.
Now, planetary/station based parade uniforms are a different matter.
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Hohoho, without moving the primary purpose away from finding someone who could imagine these, this requires some curious thought.
A lot of the United States Navy traditions (incl. uniform) are derived from UK Royal Navy traditions, which then come from centuries worth of some really archaic and anachronistic practices, yet have just stuck. The default idea of "Men in manly stuff, women in feminine stuff" for Gallente, for example, would be our automatic assumption, because we might see the Fed military as your standard, Terran volunteer military that has taken American values into space (eg. Star Trek).
But as Matariki points out, what's stopping the Gallente from having skirts for men? My initial reaction to her post was "No, that's gaaaaaay and stoooopid" (though I would say that the women, if they did wear skirts on a spaceship rather than a ubiquitous jumpsuit, would wear fire-retardant tights), but that's just me projecting my RL values onto it. There's the question if the Fed military traditions are standardized between all major members for political equality reasons, or if it's just those wacky Gallente shoehorning their traditions in. Even then, Gallente never had a Christendom like US/Europe does, and with the major landmark in Caille being a cathedral to some goddess, one can really have no idea*.
Then there's the question if one sees the Caldari as a "Gallente offshoot", that their military retains trappings of the Federal one, and never really updated it because of "it ain't broke, don't fix it". The Amarr I'd definitely see as having some traits that were adopted for reasons dating back hundreds of years. One could assume the Republic Fleet retain their Gallente structure and foundation (again changing the fundamental structure for vanity reasons might be a bad idea and impractical), but aesthetically and other matters, have been adding in their tribal stuff.
BUT, rather than turning this into another chin-wagging thread, best to just go with one set idea for whoever steps up.
*I believe in the Gallente religion article it says the ethnic Gallente have strong definitions of masculinity and femininity. How this manifests itself is any one's guess.
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Somehow, I knew this would be Seri's thread ;)
In any case, skirt for Gallente is something that should be frowned upon. Why? Because we're not dealing (from a general PF perspective) with an overly chauvinistic society, indeed we are dealing with the most egalitarian society in New Eden.
In case you haven't clocked it yet, the point is thus: Gender equality means more to the Gallente than making the gals in uniform look like strippers.
In any case I had some ideas about Minmatar uniform which always seems to be the neglected one, will find images to illustrate
Also, I would pay isk for a decent uniform artist. Just droppin it out there...
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Hohoho, without moving the primary purpose away from finding someone who could imagine these, this requires some curious thought.
A lot of the United States Navy traditions (incl. uniform) are derived from UK Royal Navy traditions, which then come from centuries worth of some really archaic and anachronistic practices, yet have just stuck. The default idea of "Men in manly stuff, women in feminine stuff" for Gallente, for example, would be our automatic assumption, because we might see the Fed military as your standard, Terran volunteer military that has taken American values into space (eg. Star Trek).
But as Matariki points out, what's stopping the Gallente from having skirts for men? My initial reaction to her post was "No, that's gaaaaaay and stoooopid" (though I would say that the women, if they did wear skirts on a spaceship rather than a ubiquitous jumpsuit, would wear fire-retardant tights), but that's just me projecting my RL values onto it. There's the question if the Fed military traditions are standardized between all major members for political equality reasons, or if it's just those wacky Gallente shoehorning their traditions in. Even then, Gallente never had a Christendom like US/Europe does, and with the major landmark in Caille being a cathedral to some goddess, one can really have no idea*.
Then there's the question if one sees the Caldari as a "Gallente offshoot", that their military retains trappings of the Federal one, and never really updated it because of "it ain't broke, don't fix it". The Amarr I'd definitely see as having some traits that were adopted for reasons dating back hundreds of years. One could assume the Republic Fleet retain their Gallente structure and foundation (again changing the fundamental structure for vanity reasons might be a bad idea and impractical), but aesthetically and other matters, have been adding in their tribal stuff.
BUT, rather than turning this into another chin-wagging thread, best to just go with one set idea for whoever steps up.
*I believe in the Gallente religion article it says the ethnic Gallente have strong definitions of masculinity and femininity. How this manifests itself is any one's guess.
The chin-wagging is the aspect of this thread that appeals to me. I hope to continue it while keeping the thread in the public eye, in the hope that someone will step up and take on the commission. :)
This brings up lots of interesting stuff.
I'd say that our current experience of military uniforms is that they change a lot over time. Dress uniforms may retain anachronisms, but field gear responds to very practical needs.
I wonder, though, how Gallente the Federation military is. That blurring caused by the use of "Gallente" for both the ethnicity and the wider Federation shouldn't blind us to the Federation's Gallente/Minmatar/Intaki/Mannar/Jin-Mei/other make-up, and the likelihood that the FedMil is somehow accommodating of its different cultures.
I also wonder whether the FedMil would have dress uniforms at all. This is one aspect where I think you could argue that the basic (ethnic) Gallente valuing of the preciousness and liberty of the individual might come into play. Formal wear might be whatever is stylish and appropriate civilian clothing, perhaps with the addition of a sash or piece of jewellery as a marker of rank. The traditional Intaki admiral might get to wear long robes, with the Admiralty Star of the Federation as a brooch (like the modern Garter Star, say), while a Mannar admiral might wear appropriate formal body paint with the Star worn as a pierced nipple shield, or a hair ornament. If ethnic Gallente are into their strongly-gendered cultural-religious thang that might mean they could display whatever it is that betokens gender to Gallente: waist-to-hip ratio, well-muscled thighs, a front-facing pregnancy-bustle as a reminder of the Great Mother's generative power, etc.
When there are particular groups or sub-cultural alliances within the FedMil they might tend to adopt similar styles. I can imagine the Caldari officers choosing to adopt a uniform or near-uniform for dress occasions, and that having been a point of underlying tension, for instance. We know that (neo-)traditional Minmatar formal wear is topless in order to show one's marks, which would have all sorts of implications for the marked and the unmarked among the FedMatari. Fashion reports of formal military events might be scoured for intel about alliances and allegiances within the military.
Where there are Gallente uniforms--and I do imagine practical and field uniforms--I imagine them being designed for stylish looks as well as function. Uniforms for which a fashion-conscious youth might be tempted to temporarily relinquish utter freedom of clothing choice.
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I am willing to throw money at this artist if they do I-RED uniforms as well.
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The chin-wagging is the aspect of this thread that appeals to me. I hope to continue it while keeping the thread in the public eye, in the hope that someone will step up and take on the commission. :)
This brings up lots of interesting stuff.
I'd say that our current experience of military uniforms is that they change a lot over time. Dress uniforms may retain anachronisms, but field gear responds to very practical needs.
I wonder, though, how Gallente the Federation military is. That blurring caused by the use of "Gallente" for both the ethnicity and the wider Federation shouldn't blind us to the Federation's Gallente/Minmatar/Intaki/Mannar/Jin-Mei/other make-up, and the likelihood that the FedMil is somehow accommodating of its different cultures.
I also wonder whether the FedMil would have dress uniforms at all. This is one aspect where I think you could argue that the basic (ethnic) Gallente valuing of the preciousness and liberty of the individual might come into play. Formal wear might be whatever is stylish and appropriate civilian clothing, perhaps with the addition of a sash or piece of jewellery as a marker of rank. The traditional Intaki admiral might get to wear long robes, with the Admiralty Star of the Federation as a brooch (like the modern Garter Star, say), while a Mannar admiral might wear appropriate formal body paint with the Star worn as a pierced nipple shield, or a hair ornament. If ethnic Gallente are into their strongly-gendered cultural-religious thang that might mean they could display whatever it is that betokens gender to Gallente: waist-to-hip ratio, well-muscled thighs, a front-facing pregnancy-bustle as a reminder of the Great Mother's generative power, etc.
When there are particular groups or sub-cultural alliances within the FedMil they might tend to adopt similar styles. I can imagine the Caldari officers choosing to adopt a uniform or near-uniform for dress occasions, and that having been a point of underlying tension, for instance. We know that (neo-)traditional Minmatar formal wear is topless in order to show one's marks, which would have all sorts of implications for the marked and the unmarked among the FedMatari. Fashion reports of formal military events might be scoured for intel about alliances and allegiances within the military.
Where there are Gallente uniforms--and I do imagine practical and field uniforms--I imagine them being designed for stylish looks as well as function. Uniforms for which a fashion-conscious youth might be tempted to temporarily relinquish utter freedom of clothing choice.
Damnit, wonder if we'll have to go to the official EVE-O forums to find folk.
I like all of these ideas, though I would think there would need to be some PF clarification that connects culture/race to something more official. Like, the variations in British military uniforms are tied to the various regiments and brigades. It seems while Intaki are connected to the Intaki solar system, Mannar are connected to the Mannar solar system, Jin-Mei to Mei-ha/Lirsautton, the ethnic Gallente are a bit more all over the place. If we assume by "member races" we mean "member systems", then it would be Luminaire. Then you might have a 'culturally universal' uniforms for those who do not subscribe to the four major members. Would the mysterious "minor members" (vague references to these guys) receive any representation in terms of military fashion?
It also seems that if Gallente ships are highly automated, then they are quite possibly the safest and 'cleanest', with no open machinery or moving parts (esp. versus Minmatar). That would make skirts more plausible. Speaking of male skirts (and sorry for otaku'ing all over the place, can't help but watch a lot of non-gritty sci-fi anime and steal Gallente ideas), but there is the ZAFT uniform from Gundam Seed here (http://photo.cosplayfu.com/character/mini/750_41688c84f658250149885b8027a1728d.jpg). Women could ditch the trousers and expose a bit of leg, or something. Though one of the female characters seems to have a shorter variant (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Yx0cT1lD3ww/TPyzULP5nBI/AAAAAAAAAO8/l84K16E_oPM/s1600/342c1f3385b730_full.gif) with a non-reg skirt beneath. Not sure if it's 'non-reg skirt' as much as it is 'fan service'.
I also also approve of factionalism within the Federation Navy. The Federation as a single entity (government, administration, police, navy) above all its lower parts is pretty freakin' huge, especially when its broken down by individuals and communities, not a handful of monolithic megas or houses. Their could even be Factions with a capital F. I'm experimenting with a concept of this "Peacedealer Faction" (anti-Vulture), which is headed by a Senator, and has several members/assets of the military aligned to it. But that's not really related.
I also also also like this Great Mother thing (may steal it :3c ). And yeah, I do believe that the Gallente's concepts of masculinity and femininity might be heavily based on the physique, rather than anything else (eg. headscarf in ye olde churches to fight off devil thoughts, was it?).
But yeah, EVE-O forums might be the place to find people...
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I tried to do a minmatar space technician. Probably a generic republic fleet midshipman or the like in utility uniform (not the parade one).
(http://blackhole.holocom.org/vrac/perso/eve-uniforms/republicfleet_tech_mf.jpg)
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That is awesome, Lyn :D
Are you a colourer? Too bad I'm not in EVE right now. Would spam it in OOC or something for exposure (hope people in Backstage give this thread a look).
I think it's very fitting, especially considering if Minmatar ships are heavily mechanical and greasy. Perhaps the beret is a Gallente adoption?
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Yes I can add colour but first things first, I would like to draw at lest a few of them before. Colour is optional, and I prefer to create more uncolored models than to create only a coloured few. Also, I think people can easily imagine a lot of different patterns of colour when the layout is already there. And the most important, it is a lot easier to bring modifications to it BEFORE adding the colour.
Maybe gallente for the beret yes, I had a thought about what to use for the head and reminded some african uniforms wearing the beret. Actually iirc, all the african uniforms I see IRL have berets.
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Regarding Minmatar uniforms, I'd suggest designing Federation ones first, then riffing on those for Republic ones.
The Republic Military School (from which all Minmatar enlists graduate) was for a long time the bastard child of the Minmatar education system - it existed because it was perceived as needed, but it had no support; most military personnel were Gallente trained. In recent years, however, as the Republic tries to ascertain its total independence, efforts are being made to transform the RMS into a top-notch military school.
The Republic Fleet was formed from the surviving elements of the rebel fleet after the Minmatar Rebellion.
(Does anyone know if there was a different RF description before the 2009 retcon about there being a long-standing rebel military? All I can tell is that the wiki history shows this version as an Abraxas edit from December 2011, with only a placeholder page before that.)
For example, Republic Navy personnel will wear uniforms with rank identifiers, but their true mark of rank is considered to be their body mark, even though this is not usually displayed.
There may be references to Republic uniforms and gear in TEA and "that DUST chronicle". DUST may offer concept art for ground troops, although I'm not sure if there's more than just DUST drop suits available yet.
I expect that the Republic Fleet is Gallente-meets-tribal. I started spinning up some stuff about that--Gallente options mean you don't have to privilege one tribe's customs over another, but with the recent tribal cultural renaissance I expect there will be continuing moves to find tribal substitutes for things that began as Gallente borrowings--but then I hit the "I'm still grumpy and confused about the retcon" thing.
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I'd just like to point out that ZAFT uniforms from Gundam Seed are awesome.
Carry on.
PS: If this does yield pretty cool uniforms, I may have some interest in getting some work done for Sak and her sisters. For a militaristic family like theirs proud of its capabilities and heritage, the lack of available and appropriate dress uniforms is a shame.
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PS: If this does yield pretty cool uniforms, I may have some interest in getting some work done for Sak and her sisters. For a militaristic family like theirs proud of its capabilities and heritage, the lack of available and appropriate dress uniforms is a shame.
Requiar meme icon for "Sak wants visuals, and is willing to pay".
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I like all of these ideas, though I would think there would need to be some PF clarification that connects culture/race to something more official. Like, the variations in British military uniforms are tied to the various regiments and brigades. It seems while Intaki are connected to the Intaki solar system, Mannar are connected to the Mannar solar system, Jin-Mei to Mei-ha/Lirsautton, the ethnic Gallente are a bit more all over the place. If we assume by "member races" we mean "member systems", then it would be Luminaire. Then you might have a 'culturally universal' uniforms for those who do not subscribe to the four major members. Would the mysterious "minor members" (vague references to these guys) receive any representation in terms of military fashion?
[....]
I also also approve of factionalism within the Federation Navy. The Federation as a single entity (government, administration, police, navy) above all its lower parts is pretty freakin' huge, especially when its broken down by individuals and communities, not a handful of monolithic megas or houses. Their could even be Factions with a capital F. I'm experimenting with a concept of this "Peacedealer Faction" (anti-Vulture), which is headed by a Senator, and has several members/assets of the military aligned to it. But that's not really related.
Some deep questions raised there. Regiments vs generic units, clumping vs blending of backgrounds, shared vision vs individual vision, and melting pot/"culturicide" vs cultural continuity.
Even more of a diversion: how strong is the shared Federal government, and which functions remain with the member states? I've gone from assuming (1) a monolithic-but-terribly-culturally-sensitive government apparatus, to (2) a light layer of government over a collection of member states that retain their own internal workings, including at least one monarch, to (3) some sort of Senate seat allocation based on clumps of worlds. These might coexist, sort of.
Speaking of male skirts (and sorry for otaku'ing all over the place, can't help but watch a lot of non-gritty sci-fi anime and steal Gallente ideas), but there is the ZAFT uniform from Gundam Seed here (http://photo.cosplayfu.com/character/mini/750_41688c84f658250149885b8027a1728d.jpg). Women could ditch the trousers and expose a bit of leg, or something. Though one of the female characters seems to have a shorter variant (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Yx0cT1lD3ww/TPyzULP5nBI/AAAAAAAAAO8/l84K16E_oPM/s1600/342c1f3385b730_full.gif) with a non-reg skirt beneath. Not sure if it's 'non-reg skirt' as much as it is 'fan service'.
Nice jackets, but if you have to get into a decompression suit now, how do you do it?
My personal preference is for more of a Babylon 5 aesthetic in the military uniforms and going to town on the fanservice in other aspects of Gallente life where it's clearly an option.
/me mentally dresses, undresses and redresses Seriphyn, trying to decide what might count as fanservice.
I also also also like this Great Mother thing (may steal it :3c ). And yeah, I do believe that the Gallente's concepts of masculinity and femininity might be heavily based on the physique, rather than anything else [...].
RE: Great Mother. Go for it. Have a think, though, about which Gallente circles would prize symbols of fertility, and what those would mean to them. I can think of a few angles on that, but I suspect there might be some heavy-duty compartmentalising of sex and reproduction among many contemporary Gallente.
For me, ethnic Gallente religious stuff has echoes of the chosen/created French Revolutionary Cult of Reason (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Reason) and Cult of the Supreme Being (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_the_Supreme_Being), except with hefty doses of self-actualisation, aesthetic appreciation, and attractively personalised god figures who'd make for good artworks.
Typically a Great Mother cult is considered an old/archaic cult. More often you'll get goddesses available for worship in a range of new packages labelled "daughter" goddesses. With a versatile-enough pantheon of deities to shift between it should be possible to match people to appropriate godly role-models for their personality and stage in life.
The wiki section about the Gallente strand of gender dualism (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Gallente_religious_practices#Dualism) is a bit too Mars-and-Venus for my taste, and acknowledges that. It has possibilities, though. Couple it with body-modding and I'm sure there would be superstimulus body types out there (Lara Croft and the Incredible Hulk), with fraternities of muscle bears being all manly together. I like to think you could couple it with classy to get a broad spectrum that included the subtle as well as the flagrant, and "What would Athena do?" as well as full-on sexualised gender roles.
The article on Gallente religious practices (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Gallente_religious_practices), while, in my view, messy and frustrating, is fantastic for setting up realistic-seeming liveable inconsistencies. I dislike reading it, but I very much like what it says about the lay of the land in Gallente belief systems. Having strong strands of individualism and equality AND strong gender roles is interestingly clashy.
For a French-Intaki blend I loved what Cia did with her Fortune-of-the-River cult.
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Heh, Matariki, you should go write up something in lieu of Kaleigh Doyle's "17 lunar deities" thing :>
Also, yeah, I think I agree. Spaceships are still dangerous no matter who designs them, so I think jumpsuit-style uniforms would be in use ubiquitously. We can ignore dress uniforms for now, since that goes into much wilder territory, and come up with basic shipboard uniforms they'll wear. The proof-of-concept, so to speak. *looks at Lyn* :3c
In which case, I picture the Gallente one being very very similar to that male 'Allied Terran Defense' thing in the OP. Form-fitting suit with curved tailoring/seams, but not too bland/boring like Star Trek. I'm sure it'd be the same for women, too (as it is in modern navies). I'd picture the top-half being more like a very thin jacket that can be unzipped, leaving one in just a t-shirt beneath. In contrast to the Minmatar one, it would not be baggy in the slightest (even modern working rigs have some excess bagginess to them).
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I dislike reading it, but I very much like what it says about the land of the lay in Gallente belief systems.
FTFY.
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I dislike reading it, but I very much like what it says about the land of the lay in Gallente belief systems.
FTFY.
*groan* :roll:
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If ethnic Gallente are into their strongly-gendered cultural-religious thang that might mean they could display whatever it is that betokens gender to Gallente: waist-to-hip ratio, well-muscled thighs, a front-facing pregnancy-bustle as a reminder of the Great Mother's generative power, etc.
something I thought of earlier today, relates to this.
[spoiler](http://www.quafe.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Quafe.jpg)
[/spoiler]
that's the old Quafe girl outfit.
and like, her belly, thighs and boobs are uncovered, and her hips are covered, (which will tend to make them look wider, won't it?).
So, an outfit that relates to "the Great Mother", would not be too dissimilar, I thought.
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I don't think I'd ever seen below the shoulders of that outfit before. Thanks, Lou. :)
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Okay well I finally found someone. Doing Gallente/Caldari at least. I've already sent a mail out to a few people, however, I'll ask here...(these are designed to be 'crowdpleasers' after all)
Would the Caldari have gendered uniforms (eg. not just tailorings, but skirt vs trousers)? If so, why, or why not?
In my personal opinion (which won't necessarily get carried through), I think no, though I've had a handful of people saying yes. As someone has pointed out to me elsewhere, the ideal is that gender doesn't matter in a meritocracy. Even if that's idealistic, something like uniforms might subscribe to these ideals regardless of what happens in reality. Secondly, a streamlined/efficient force might want to save the budget by producing one set of uniform for all (obviously with different fittings). To me, the Caldari having separate uniforms by gender would seem to enforce the divide a bit. USCBP dress uniforms seem to have no gender variation (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/CBP_Officers_pay_tribute_2007.jpg), for example. I may be wrong, but pencil skirts seem somewhat restrictive in movement (though shipboard uniform would always be genderneutral), unless it was an a-line skirt. It seems somewhat un-Caldari to restrict physical efficiency based on vanity.
I'm also not that clued in on gender studies when it comes to clothing, and thus not sure how much a skirt represents ebil oppressive patriarchy.
But again, I'm open to suggestions, since I'll be going on a vote of Caldari RPers, and a compromise of some kind if it's equal tally.
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I would say pants for women too in the caldari society. I still have in mind this old image (http://bestgamewallpapers.com/files/eve-online/caldari.jpg) and I definitly do not see her wear a skirt. Well, its the ground military probably and not the navy, but still. A best, I think that women may wear skirts for formal parade uniforms or secretary stuff, maybe.
Also, I am still working on doing some more things but I did not have the time recently since I was busy finishing preparing my racing stuff (which is done now). I already put on paper a Jin-Mei navy idea but I still have to do the male counterpart and I am also thinking to add colour to all of them.
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I dislike reading it, but I very much like what it says about the land of the lay in Gallente belief systems.
FTFY.
*groan* :roll:
Ulf, I just want you to know I am so proud of you right now. :lol:
I think general-purpose uniforms in the State would have fewer differences between genders than dress uniforms beyond the obvious adjustments around the bust, hips and waist to make things fit better. Dress uniforms I could see women having conservatively long skirts instead of slacks - not floor-length, but a little longer than the ones available in the NeX, to give a visual comparison. Shin-length maybe?
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Also, I am still working on doing some more things but I did not have the time recently since I was busy finishing preparing my racing stuff (which is done now). I already put on paper a Jin-Mei navy idea but I still have to do the male counterpart and I am also thinking to add colour to all of them.
Funny you should bring that up, since I was thinking the Federation Army would have 'planetary regimental uniforms' like the Indian Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_army#Regiments), but Navy/Marines would be standardized, since they are space forces. Right now, the only thing I committed to with this artist was combat fatigues.
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If a dress uniform includes a long coat and boots, that kind of hides the presence of a skirt or a dress underneath. For example, if Caldari dress uniforms would for a traditional reasons include something you could wear during a winter on Home, they most likely have a long coat. Such as that in the anime pic linked by Seri.
Here's a sample of old Finnish dragoon regiment winter wear (http://www3.lappeenranta.fi/museot/verkkonayttelyt/heihoplaa/kuvat/sanasto/r0968_081.jpg). (Doesn't really matter that it's a greyscale picture, the coat is grey wool. They might wear red pants, though.) On the left, riding furs, and on the right, a long cavalry mantle. (A potentially better picture of the coat (http://www.varusteleka.fi/pictures/12141.jpg) - belt missing.)
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I want one of those coats. IRL.
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Some time, in the varied history of EVE fashion design from back before Incarna, we were shown a coat design that looks a lot like that. I think it was in a layout with texture and colour samples for the parts of the outfit. Ring any bells?
Also, given that Sruli Recht was apparently involved in a round of EVE clothing design at some point, I've wondered about adopting touches like concrete belt buckles, maybe taken from the ruins of some famously-destroyed planet and cut smooth for use.
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I think you're thinking of this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eveonline/2706680137/in/photostream/), Mata. And yes, do want.
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I don't even know why all those old incarna designs never got implemanted.
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I think you're thinking of this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eveonline/2706680137/in/photostream/), Mata. And yes, do want.
Esna, thank you: yes, that. :)
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I believe the FIO/SDII currently have their own paramilitary and police/security units. I've always pictured them wearing something like sleek matte black and minimalist high collared uniforms, of course with the obligatory leather gloves and jackboots that all sinister state police types wear.
As for the Federal military itself, I've always wondered if they have separate uniform types in the branches to distinguish between enlisted/NCO and Officers or if they just distinguish via brass on the collars and bars on the epaulettes.
As for the style of the uniforms themselves I'd imagine the battle dress be fairly functional and utilitarian with the parade uniforms perhaps borrowing from the military uniforms of Caille and the Garoun Kingdom. There's probably some room to insert some history and tradition there, like Officers getting to wear spurs if they're in a "Cavalry" unit, that sort of thing.
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I always think anyone who's doing any real work in the SDII wears normal civilian clothes on the job. The uniform of nonuniformity. Plain. Normal. Unassuming. The gray men.
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I always think anyone who's doing any real work in the SDII wears normal civilian clothes on the job. The uniform of nonuniformity. Plain. Normal. Unassuming. The gray men.
This is how it should be I agree - however I get the distinct feeling that from what I have read and the fact that :CCP: means that its likely however that they have that darker 'shady-sekrit-police' appearance in fiction.
I do however, personally prefer the 'jason bourne' for want of a better analogy uniform, looks normal but its most definately not.
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I think you're thinking of this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eveonline/2706680137/in/photostream/), Mata. And yes, do want.
Esna, thank you: yes, that. :)
/me will be using this.
I believe the FIO/SDII currently have their own paramilitary and police/security units. I've always pictured them wearing something like sleek matte black and minimalist high collared uniforms, of course with the obligatory leather gloves and jackboots that all sinister state police types wear.
That does seem to be the case, like in "Two Deaths", etc., at least for the SDII. The Jason Bourne stuff others have pointed out seems more typical/vanilla FIO to me.
As for the Federal military itself, I've always wondered if they have separate uniform types in the branches to distinguish between enlisted/NCO and Officers
I think I might go for this, since they seem flamboyant enough.
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I think you're thinking of this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eveonline/2706680137/in/photostream/), Mata. And yes, do want.
Esna, thank you: yes, that. :)
/me will be using this.
More culture theft from the Federation, eh Seriphyn?
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No, for the uniform chart.
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By the way, I think it's quite un-Caldari for women to be issued a skirt in the military. It's distracting to men, it's not as efficient as producing pants for everyone, and it's either loose/revealing or restrictive to movement to wear a skirt.
Then again, I've never worn a skirt, so I can't say for certain on that last bit. But either way, I imagine no gender bias for standard issue uniforms. If the houses and buildings of Caldari all look the same, and the ships are utilitarian to the point of ugly, why should the Caldari differentiate between a male and female uniform?
ADDENDUM:
I'd also like to point out the very real possibility that those wanting Caldari women to wear skirts and such in the military are likely thinking - again - from a very western modern day perspective. Skirts are hot, and they are flattering to our senses. The same may very well not hold true to fictional Caldari sensibilities.
POST ADDENDUM:
Is there something about skirts that would make it likely to be standard issue to Caldari servicewomen? Perhaps less cloth required to make it? What is it about skirts that would make the Caldari say, "Hmm, yes this is the clear choice over pants for women."
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I always think anyone who's doing any real work in the SDII wears normal civilian clothes on the job. The uniform of nonuniformity. Plain. Normal. Unassuming. The gray men.
In the field? Oh, definitely. It would defeat the point really if people could spot who was SDII in public.
I was thinking more of what they'd be wearing once they pull the black bag off over someone's head in a brightly lit white room to conduct "Interrogations".
It's all about creating emotional distance or something in the subject.
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I don't even know why all those old incarna designs never got implemanted.
Because Harpa Einarsdottir left CCP and still has full rights over all her concept art. CCP wasn't legally allowed to use any of her work after she left, or so they say.
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Is there something about skirts that would make it likely to be standard issue to Caldari servicewomen? Perhaps less cloth required to make it? What is it about skirts that would make the Caldari say, "Hmm, yes this is the clear choice over pants for women."
If that's why, then the men would be wearing them too. Which would certainly not be uncool.
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Remember the Greek and Roman Empires ? They may well have been people from the south, mediteranean dudes with hot weather, they all wear skirts. It did not limit their capacities or anything. But yes, it depends of the skirt in question. The skirts we have in Incarna are definitly not practical the slighest.
And anyway, I agree with you Kat, that sounds also weird to me that women would wear skirts and not men for the Caldari (or the opposite).
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I thought about starting a new thread for this, but don't yet have all the links I'd like to have to show clothing costume art through the ages of EVE Online. ;)
Kat's mention of Harpa Einarsdottir had me looking up some of her stuff and finding a bunch of designs she did for EVE that I hadn't seen before. These are definitely from a previous conception of EVE but some of them are beautiful and most are interesting in one way or another.
http://www.behance.net/gallery/CCP-EVE-online/922833
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It's worth noting that the Caldari people spent several thousand years on a harsh frozen iceworld, which only later became a still very cold tundra world. There is little reason why wearing a skirt would be a good idea over there, imo. For most of their history they would have been wrapped up in heavy clothing to protect themselves from hypothermia, and only later would they be able to wear standard clothing while going outside.
As for skirts on men, I think Harpa's Deteis male guy is wearing something almost similar to a dress. I don't think the Caldari really differentiate between 'this cut is called a skirt for women, this is called pants for men'. I think if they cut something, it's just cut that way for unisex. This is the whole thing I'm getting at here - the Caldari are fairly unisex in their dress codes.
The Caldari don't allow men to walk around shirtless any more than they do women. they don't want to see his bare ankles and calves any more than they want to see hers. They cut their clothing the same as much as they can to simplify the process for anything military. Of course there is Caldari fashion, but fashion has no place outside a sort of niche interest. For the military, things are standardized and simplified for efficiency. Dressing women up in sexy little skirts doesn't seem like something I can really imagine the Caldari subscribing to.
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You've posed a very convincing set of arguments there, Katrina, but will keep the floor open for any possibilities to the contrary.
I'll be sure to balance out the lack of skirts by giving the Caldari plenty of badass trenchcoats, if it does swing that way.
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For me, skirts on Caldari women are just another example of deep-seated Gallente cultural influence. I enjoy the irony of rejecting a culture outwardly while being conveniently ignorant of its subtler influences on your day to day life. Like jihadis who drink Coke. Besides, who in modern first world societies dresses the same as their ancestors did 1000 years ago? The skirt IS distracting to men. Thus it is a good tool for manipulating them. A female subculture within a nation with as much ruthless competition as the State that doesn't take advantage of such a tool is less well equipped as one that does. The Caldari are sexually equal, but I don't see them as sexually iconoclastic at all.
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Oh great, thanks Ken, for throwing a spanner in the works there :P
Hehe.
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For me, skirts on Caldari women are just another example of deep-seated Gallente cultural influence. I enjoy the irony of rejecting a culture outwardly while being conveniently ignorant of its subtler influences on your day to day life. Like jihadis who drink Coke. Besides, who in modern first world societies dresses the same as their ancestors did 1000 years ago? The skirt IS distracting to men. Thus it is a good tool for manipulating them. A female subculture within a nation with as much ruthless competition as the State that doesn't take advantage of such a tool is less well equipped as one that does. The Caldari are sexually equal, but I don't see them as sexually iconoclastic at all.
I can see your point to an extent, but with two qualifiers.
First, this perhaps fits better in the business world than the military one.
Second, while of course we always acknowledge it is an ideal rather than a reality, physical appeal doesn't particularly fit in to the meritocracy model. Well, at least not in the more productivity driven fields, NOH on the other hand... :9.
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First, this perhaps fits better in the business world than the military one.
In the State, I like to think the line between those two blurs to the point of irrelevance.
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A possible reason for skirts over pants for women: Can't get into someone's pants if they aren't wearing any!
*flees*
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Will have a go at this tomorrow; I'm an artist, and this gives me a reason to draw again.
Will do my take on Minmatar. And no, no damned miniskirts and teensy weensy tops.
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Two new uniforms.
The first one is supposed to be Jin Mei officers, with obvious differences between the male and female ones since Jin-Mei is still a very traditional, rigid, misogynous caste system. Of course it is mostly about remnants of the Jin-Mei navy and local forces. Jin-Mei fleets incorporated into the Federal navy would use standard gallente navy uniforms with a few noticeable Jin-Mei signs and heraldry.
The second one is an attempt at an imperial fleet chaplain, an hypothetical singular military role in most cruisers and above.
[spoiler](http://blackhole.holocom.org/vrac/perso/eve-uniforms/jinmeifleet_officer_mf.jpg)[/spoiler]
[spoiler](http://blackhole.holocom.org/vrac/perso/eve-uniforms/imperialfleet_chaplain_mf.jpg)[/spoiler]
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Typical BSG fanboi post, but am I the only one who thinks BSG uniforms look matari-ish?
Plus theres the whole thing with "Thirteen Tribes" and polytheism, but will save for an extended essay on BSG-Matari connections :P
But yes, Matari Bridge Officer below?
[spoiler](http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/1/1c/TighDressUniformWater.JPG)[/spoiler]
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Why not yeah.
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I dont see the Minmatar jumping whole-hog into Gallentean (or anyone else's) style of dress, and I certainly dont see them abandoning tradition while doing so, at least not for dress uniforms where full body covering/protection isnt required, and would, in fact, be undesirable for them. In the interest of NOT offending the guests from other cultures and just walking around with no top, a rough sketch i drew today; Shows off marks, has a traditional rank insignia (or whatever other markings may be needed, though once again, likely very minimal for the Minmatar) and the ceremonial combat knife who's name I can never remember. Anyway, room for tweaks, but my starting point for a TLF/Rep Fleet-ish formal uniform;
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q148/L1A1/Avaformal1001.jpg)
Thanks, Ava
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That's really good Ava :) I like leaving the tattoos visible, that would make sense in Minmatar culture. I'm not sure that some Minmatar would make any concessions to the tastes of other cultures at all, and their dress uniforms would just be traditional ceremonial clothing.
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Very neat, nice idea for the jacket.
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Hnghh, all of those are really good :3
Naturally partial to the Jin-Mei one, unsurprisingly...
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HOPEFULLY will have more done tomorrow; at the moment, kind of hard to find time to draw. Thanks for the words!
Lyn, I am really enjoying your artwork. Please do more!
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Lyn, mind if I take what you have to be apart of any "Uniform Chart" done? Specifically, I picture the Federation Army being like the British/Indian army in having different dress/ceremony uniforms by region; in this case it would be by planet (but Navy/Marines would be the same since they are fundamentally space-based)
That in particular would be "Federation Army - Hulang Planetary Division"
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Take what you want, those are here for a purpose after all. ^^
As I said though I do not think Jin-Mei federal divisions would wear that complete uniform. They would probably wear a standard federal uniform (that ive not done yet, but it is maybe one of the hardest to find concepts for tbh) with their own regional heraldry added on top, like the shoulder pads for example. That's how I view it.
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A Sebiestor shaman conducts marriage rites for a pair of young Brutor Republic Fleet light marines immediately prior to their deployment. (( Sorry for low image quality, I think the bulb in my dear old scanner is dying))
Ava
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q148/L1A1/001.jpg)
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A Sebiestor shaman conducts marriage rites for a pair of young Brutor Republic Fleet light marines immediately prior to their deployment. (( Sorry for low image quality, I think the bulb in my dear old scanner is dying))
Ava
(http://i.imgur.com/7Srn4.jpg)
This should help some people see it better.
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I post art, the thread dies.
I have a sad.
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I post art, the thread dies.
I have a sad.
:P
Is gud. Moar, plox.
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Necroing, not with uniforms but with general fashion.
Intaki business suit? http://designcrack.com/sruli-recht-and-inaisce/
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Ava, in shamanic regalia, preparing for a wedding. (I figured why stay with just uniforms, pffft. Lets do all aspects.) My scanner behaved better, I spent longer. Whatcha think folks?
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q148/L1A1/Shaman001.jpg)
And just cause i decided to upload it; the large tattoo which covers Ava's back (One of the places on her body her Clan permits the individual to decorate as they wish)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q148/L1A1/AvasTattoo.jpg)
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Out of curiosity...when does Ava not have a boot knife?
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The knife is an IC item, a "ci'nal" or "ice-knife". It is a symbol of status in her clan, and she is literally never without it.
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Ava, do you draw loincloths perchance?
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Ava, do you draw loincloths perchance?
.....why?
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Ava, do you draw loincloths perchance?
.....why?
Isn't that what you Matari folk wear? ;)
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>.<
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You're a pretty good artist Ava.
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You're a pretty good artist Ava.
Thank you! I have been convinced to do a short (5-6 page) little comic which I will post when it is done. It will be a short segment based on Ava, but if it is favorably recieved, maybe i will do more of it!