Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => CCP Public Library => Topic started by: Casiella on 17 Jan 2011, 16:51
-
My RP background revolves almost entirely around the Minmatar and their (almost said "our") sphere of influence. My characters to date have rarely had much reason to care about the nuances of Amarrian belief, generally being either entirely atheistic or avoiding the subject entirely.
So I'm curious: in the Amarrian RP circles, how close of a connection do people draw between Amarrian religion and RL beliefs? I'm wondering specifically about Christianity. Now while I understand that 20k years have passed and thus we should see far more change and evolution in than we've even seen between Abraham and (say) Pope Pius XVI, my thought is that one could possible detect some core of what we today know as the Gospels in the most ancient Amarrian texts.
Alternately, I'd postulate that somewhere in the cluster is a (heretical?) sect that holds to some beliefs that tie back to themes we'd at least recognize, even if not necessarily identical. Along those lines, how would you advise someone interested in creating a small offshoot that accepts at least some of the Amarrian holy writ mixed together with other prophets and writings?
Please be gentle... :oops:
-
I think it would be awesome.
I have a Khanid character that I am trying to explore that kind of thing with - making modern Christian references in her speech, focusing on the 'God is Love' aspect of Christianity.
If you make the character, we should do business.
-
Have you ever wondered just where the Blood Raiders got their blood fetish? Most people dismiss them as emo space vampire wannabes. I have another theory.
In the Christian faith, during the Eucharist, or holy communion, which symbolic substances are consumed? :twisted:
-
Mammal, I will definitely be in touch with you.
And yes, Istvaan, those thoughts have occurred to me as well. The symbolic "cannibalism" in Christianity and the ensuing controversies date back at least to John 6. I think this is at least partly referenced in the martyrdom of Abel Jarek, too.
-
My RP background revolves almost entirely around the Minmatar and their (almost said "our") sphere of influence. My characters to date have rarely had much reason to care about the nuances of Amarrian belief, generally being either entirely atheistic or avoiding the subject entirely.
So I'm curious: in the Amarrian RP circles, how close of a connection do people draw between Amarrian religion and RL beliefs? I'm wondering specifically about Christianity. Now while I understand that 20k years have passed and thus we should see far more change and evolution in than we've even seen between Abraham and (say) Pope Pius XVI, my thought is that one could possible detect some core of what we today know as the Gospels in the most ancient Amarrian texts.
Alternately, I'd postulate that somewhere in the cluster is a (heretical?) sect that holds to some beliefs that tie back to themes we'd at least recognize, even if not necessarily identical. Along those lines, how would you advise someone interested in creating a small offshoot that accepts at least some of the Amarrian holy writ mixed together with other prophets and writings?
Please be gentle... :oops:
I am not going to be gentle here.
People mixing amarr RP beliefs with their own belief systems (most popular are bible belt christianity, roman catholicism and islam) does not fit the bill, really.
First of all you should devote a few hours to study the scriptures listed in the PIE scribptures/PF thread on the stories forum - and also another few hours to the study of the scripture collection on the evelopedia.
The amarrian God certainly is a vengeful figure, and compared to modern christianity with a definite messiah there does not seem to be a clear messianic figurehead for the amarrian faith - except possible the current and past emperors.
There is already overflowing abundance on happy-flower-peace amarrian sub-sects in the RP community- and much like the sole "slavery" focused RP of some minmatar player it does get old pretty quickly.
If you really want to play as an amarr (or as a member of the amarrian mainstream faith) you should devote some time to get in the whole mindset of it all.
First of all to consider is the racial segregation and what it means for your character. Where does he/she stand, what are her/his view's on his/her position in society etc. Once you have passed that stage you have to decide if you are secularistic, pragmatic or zealous/faithful - is religion simply a matter of upbringing for you, or do you fervently pray when you are in need of guidance, rather than just doing it by habit.
I just ask one thing.
Please, do not use direct bible quotes and call them scripture - especially the new testament is in most parts much too "friendly and optimistic".
Lae'
P.S.: If you are really serious about all this, hit me up ingame and we can have a more in depth discussion - maybe I can even point you to some other people too, once we've worked out what you are really looking for.
-
I wouldn't dream of actually just passing off the Sermon on the Mount as well-known Amarrian scripture. That just seems wrong on so many levels. And I would love a link to the scriptures you mention.
So I'm thinking of two things, actually. One is to better understand an aspect of the EVE universe which, to date, I don't. (This encompasses far more than Amarrian religion, but it's a start.)
The other is to find a hook, if you will, for a project I've mulled for a very long time, leveraging the sandbox in a direction I've not previously gone and which I feel is underexplored. Religion is not the primary motivator here (IC or OOC), though a strong dose of ethics and spirituality certainly does come into play.
-
I do remember some people who tried to explain how Orthodox Amarr faith and Christianity were compatible, but to be quite honest, they were nuts. Some really strange cosmetically-still-Christian Prosperity Theology cults might get close, though, but - while I like to present myself as a tolerant person - the "they were nuts" part would still be valid.
Looking at missions, there is a hideous sect called the Flame of Peace, which has terrible cannibalistic rituals. When the capsuleer sent by the agent confronts them, they explain the rituals as purely symbolistic. Of course, at that point their ships and structures are pretty much already locked up.
In addition, there's likely hundreds of sects that may resemble some real-world religion in the Empire. If they get vocal, they get stamped down by the authorities as dangerous heretics.
The following is my opinion how the Amarr faith might have been born:
The Messiah of Amarr would likely be Prophet Dano Gheinok (Gheinok the First). Prophet Gheinok guided the Amarr away from the sins of the old world (Adam is you wish) into EVE. The planet Athra is Heaven. Since the Amarr are God's chosen, Athra is their birthright, and since they are on Athra (Heaven), then clearly they are God's chosen. Prophet Gheinok established their community and faith, which may be poetically referenced as the Kingdom of Heaven. Or Kingdom of God, which suites you better. Gheinok was likely very long-lived - it might be that the Amarr had still access to Terran-level technology long enough that the first-generation elite on Athra long enough to be considered mythical, even by the current tech level. This might be the origin of Amarr belief in "divine implants".
Also, all of this has been long clouded by the Dark Age. Tradition has still preserved the key points of faith, modified by the successive Emperors. A major ret-con for the Amarr would be needed to explain why there's still evil in Paradise, something that would eventually birth the Empire and the post of the Emperor - specially when we remember Amash-Akura, the first Emperor who was delivered the crown and the scepter (advanced technology?) by visitors from the Heavens. Amash-Akura set the example of redeeming and reclaiming those who had strayed from the vision. The Dark Age itself has a major role in the faith, as the Chosen of God themselves were re-purified by their trials in the desert (possibly a nomadic period before they could establish the Empire and claim the Promised Land).
Other notable events are the Mad Emperor (who claimed to be God instead of a merely God's viceroy) and the Moral Reforms (where the old way of choosing the Emperor from amongst the Apostles was changed in favour of the Heirs named by the Royal Houses), increasing the power of the nobility and curbing the power of the Church. Of course, even the post-Moral Reform Empire isn't the same as today's Empire. After the reforms, the Theology Council was effectively found to be the Emperor's "evangelists", ret-conning the faith to support the new regime. In the modern Amarr Empire, the Theology Council does have a good deal of power itself, and is hinted at least in the Privy Council Evelopedia article to prefer an Emperor they can "handle" instead of a strong Emperor.
And again a reminder that that is my take on the subject. There's a whole lot of Amarr beliefs, possibly not all believed in by all of the Amarr that may or may not fit into this. (For example, the EVE wormhole being called "Mouth of God".)
-
I am by no means a hugely well versed person in Amarrian faith but I can at least lay claim to understanding it (I hope) to the point where one can effectively RP a character who follows the faith.
As Laerise said, the Amarrian god isn't "Be nice to all" its very dominant and driven for Amarrian-Power, "Reclaim all the world for it is thy birthright" sort of thing, they do still follow a similar path in that purely from a religious standpoint Slavery is used to "bring enlightenment to the heathen masses" but even there it still considers the non-Amarrians to be lesser races, something that SHOULD be of note if you want to be a Tradionionalist Amarrian, another example of this is the Ni-Kunni race, If memory serves they struggled for a long time to gain their current status in the Empire because even they, who integrated so well with the Empire where still largely a slave race and only recently gained some sort of parity inside the Empire - as far as I know only the Khanid are truly on par with the True-Amarrians, but this is largely becasue they where both natives of Athra and joined very early on in the picture.
Mith's description is quite a valid interpretation and I happen to think it fits largely although I think the "Dark Ages" simply because of the darkness would be the re-introduction of evil into the Empire, caused by those whose faith wavered without the light and sought other means - Enter the Raiders/Sabik.
But again, with the Empire being as large and dominant as it has been the variation of the faith between the officially santictioned version that the Theology Council would enforce would have enourmous amounts of variation umong certain regions and areas within the empire - but again, being so visibly enforced could mean that its not as big as one might imagine, the threat of death or worse is a strong deterant for many.
Oh and before I forget, there is also an undercurrent of non-belief even within the high-ranking imperials in many of the Chrons I have read, although many seem to find faith in the end its quite possibly just on show most of the time so a potentially interesting point if you want an extra facet to any character ideas.
-
A lot of these critiques can be dispensed with through the device of 'divine inspiration' - to claim that God has revealed to one's character that elements of the scriptures have been tampered with or that the orthodoxy is heresy and that God has revealed another way.
I mean, it worked for every prophet in history - they all challenged the orthodoxy. Why not us, especially if it makes for cool role-play?
-
Whenever I worldshape or RP Amarr, I only use any "Christian" elements as far as having priests, church and ceremonies, otherwise I aim for a more Arabic/Persian vibe (naming styles definitely seems to be like that).
I do think that the Amarr God, if it was to resemble the Christian one at all, would have more resemblance to the God in the Old Testament, who was rather vengeful and whatnot. I suppose the "Innocent Faces" chron might shed some light on a more evangelical look, but it's still my belief that chron is overly Americanized (or maybe Gallenteanized?)
One of the more interesting discussions I always figured out was how the Amarr projects its influence through religion. The Federation and Empire are both power-projecting entities, using different methods to do so. The Federation uses diplomacy, fashion, cuisine, ideology and entertainment (soft power) while the Empire has a greater hard power element to it (curbstomp with their massive military, for example. Could be matched by Federation but would take a while for them to go to war-footing).
The goal of both the Empire and the Federation is the same, to "conquer the world" ("The Reclaiming" by Jamyl, and "grand project of universal freedom" from Roden). The Federation has the Republic in their camp by virtue of shared population, similar ideologies and so on. Though the Caldari are incredibly resistant, the Gallente have made progress via projecting their own capitalism into the State, and cuisine. In the Empire, they have influences still, but it doesn't seem to have as major an effect (matching 'great culture').
The question is, how does the Empire project influence? It uses religion, and with the emanicipation act, seems to be destabilizing the Republic, along with the Salvation Crusaders...such things that most Minmatar speak the Amarrian language, and that two entire Republic tribes are Amarr believers. They have the State in their camp via a massive financial bond and the Khanid Kingdom (which, from news items, combines corporate capitalism with theocracy).
-
I think, personally, that the lack of a single "messiah" figure, and the lack of the idea of personal salvation via faith remove the Amarrian religion quite far from Christianity. The Amarrian religion seems to portray a vengeful God who wants everyone to be His servant, and the way to achieve this is not primarily to tell them how God is love and all that jazz, or even to give them the traditional Christian choice of sword or conversion, but to subjugate them for enough many generations that eventually you breed races that are compatible with God's plan. And smite those who don't fit into it while you are at it.
(I think that's a wonderful twist on religion, and the whole evolution vs creation thing too. Anyway, beside the point.)
How far individual Holders etc go in subjugating those in their care and smiting those they cannot, can vary, obviously. Even to the point of thinking slavery is mistaken, and the service should be voluntary, I guess. But I am not sure you can remove the "betterment via service over generations" completely and still claim your sect is part of the Amarrian Faith, rather than something completely different, so ingrained it seems to be in the faith itself.
That's not to say I object to people playing characters who think God did not mean that at all but something completely different. Every religion has its crazy prophets and the EVE universe is big enough and capsuleers are eccentric anyway.
I think, though, that if you play an Amarrian citizen expressing such extreme views as "all races are equal" and "slavery should be completely abolished" and "God did not mean us to Reclaim the Minmatar", and so forth, you should incorporate into your story some difficulties and persecution this has brought upon you and your family in the Empire. Because I don't think that's the standard view of the God at all in the Empire, and I don't think they'll just let people walk around saying stuff like that and think nothing of it.
-
Amarrians are the space Jews.
-
Like Seriphyn noted, it is worthy to compare the Federation and the Empire. Just like Gallente take it for granted that they have their <insert consumer product and/or service here>, the Amarr have faith. It very likely isn't simply something what secular people (like I assume most of us are) would consider "religion" or being a "practicing believer" - as in, the faith as an action or a statement of something. Rather, for Amarr, "practicing" the faith - perhaps with the exception of some holidays and other "more rare" events - would be as natural as we find having a lunch break.
I think some chronicle or a short story did mention prayer booths - kind of phone booths, except that these have devices that did play back religious material and delivered chemical assistance for getting a religious experience. I'd assume that those would be popular with the busy young upstarts (you know, they were nobodies just three generations ago) in the capital to get the prayer done between making deals at the after-service social event on the morning and heading to the slave market on the afternoon.
The above example also includes the idea of something happening over many generations. I think Paradise is mentioned, so there might be some concept of personal salvation. However, the emphasis clearly is that your acts trickle down to your descendants, so the catch is that if you act well with the system, your children or their children might be better off. Kind of a circle logic there, too - serve well and remember your place and teach your children to do the same, so that their children might, perhaps, raise is status.
Of course, that is only valid for commoners - or only certain facets of the society. It is still completely legal to get rich, possibly even for slaves, as long as you don't try to act against a higher social class. You can enjoy yourself, as long as it is not something differing too much of the norm. The extraordinary example is the Tash-Murkon family. Another example would be the military. It might be, however, that gaining status within a social niche is accepted, and may over the generations even cause social class movement. Military might be the quick way to the top, because a soldier - in fitting conditions - might be able to turn from a private to a general while still staying within the same social niche of "practitioner of the killing profession". Worth to note that I find social discussion perfectly on topic in an Amarr religion thread, since by definition, everything Amarr is religion or religious.
In a way, I assume that the Amarr Empire wouldn't have seemed that strange a few hundred years ago. At least around here, the Church was the institution that took care of things like teaching people to read, recording births, deaths and marriages and so on. There were clearly understood codes, such as a dead person might be clearly identified based on how the church bells rung in his or her memory. The social status directly reflected to worship (with people sitting in the church in places dictated by their social status - and for the better off people in conservative villages/towns, worship would not have been optional unless you wanted the image of a godless outcast).
-
I always Felt that the Amarr Religion had an Old School Old Testament Feel to it. An Eye for an Eye kinda thing.
As that I have, as of yet, not read a copy of the Koran I'm not sure how close it comes to that particular faith, But I do have a feeling that Judaism Won't be close to the Amarr religion at all.
-
First of all you should devote a few hours to study the scriptures listed in the PIE scriptures/PF thread on the stories forum - and also another few hours to the study of the scripture collection on the evelopedia.
Are the scriptures on the Evelopaedia (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Scriptures) not all that there are? Or does the PIE threads have some people's thoughts on things?
Looking at missions, there is a hideous sect called the Flame of Peace, which has terrible cannibalistic rituals. When the capsuleer sent by the agent confronts them, they explain the rituals as purely symbolistic.
Amarr Navy Agent: "This new 'religion' is one of the most twisted travesties of faith we have ever encountered. They talk much of peace and love and all such nonsense, but according to their text, they kill and eat one of their members during their most sacred rituals. After the ritual slaughter they roast their victim's flesh in the so-called Flame of Peace and share it among the congregation. Now you see how dangerous these deranged fanatics are!"
Flame of Peace Chosen:"The Theology Council told you that we eat people? Vile lies! Our rituals are symbolic. We eat consecrated protein cake, not our brethren!"
The cake, may be a Lie! :o
There's also the passage in the Scriptures where it mentions that "The Lord punished the sinners and drowned them in their own blood."
This may be one of the things that led to the eventual formation of the Sani Sabik and the Blood Raiders.
personal salvation via faith
Various scriptures say some things of this nature. like the story of Garum, Zakara and the Beast, and also the Amarr Askura which says "For whosoever shall lay his life down for his Lord, He shall be taken into the arms of God, And forever consecrated will he be"
Also got these things about stuff, might be relevant
http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=372.0
http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=374.0
about the different religions, and also about what priests are - The Scriptures contain many things.
-
The PIE Inc. amarr PF compilation: http://eve-search.com/thread/534154/page/all
Also, keep in mind that status and public appereance mean everything to amarrians - which is why they are often perceived as haughty for arrogant and of a "holier-than-though" attitude.
While affections in public, of any kind, and the (ab)use of alcohol and drugs in public seem to be looked down upon not many people seem to care what happens behind close doors.
Every major scandal I know of always focused more on the fact that the improper behaviour
a) was considered to be below the status of the person
b) somehow publicised
To drag out the old comparison between federation and empire, if you want to rp a real amarrian, then the easiest way to go about it is to think not in terms what he/she would do, but more what she/he would NOT do in any given setting and moment.
-
According to the back-story in 3805 "the Conformists, a group within the Unified Catholic Church, settles on Soekhetvi". Dano Gheinok, who is "one of there leaders" in 7989 directs them to Athra. So there is a genealogical connection to Christianity. (Cf. http://www.eveonline.com/races/amarr_timeline.asp).
But what does that mean? There is also a genealogical connection from Christianity to Judaism, a connection from the Baha'i to Shi'i Islam, yet those communities differ. Also within historical and contemporary religions there are huge differences. The religious practice of Roman Catholic Chinese hasn't much in common with "Jesus Camps" in the United States; Judaism today cannot be compared to Judaism at the time of the Temple etc. etc. That is to say: Even if we can trace a specific origin it doesn't mean a lot. "Holy Books" have been interpreted, ignored and edited. In this regard concepts of "heresy" and "orthodoxy" are questions of power and not "right interpretation". (I find it rather strange that people refer to themselves as "heretical" in certain rp situations.)
-
According to the back-story in 3805 "the Conformists, a group within the Unified Catholic Church, settles on Soekhetvi". Dano Gheinok, who is "one of there leaders" in 7989 directs them to Athra. So there is a genealogical connection to Christianity. (Cf. http://www.eveonline.com/races/amarr_timeline.asp).
But what does that mean? There is also a genealogical connection from Christianity to Judaism, a connection from the Baha'i to Shi'i Islam, yet those communities differ. Also within historical and contemporary religions there are huge differences. The religious practice of Roman Catholic Chinese hasn't much in common with "Jesus Camps" in the United States; Judaism today cannot be compared to Judaism at the time of the Temple etc. etc. That is to say: Even if we can trace a specific origin it doesn't mean a lot. "Holy Books" have been interpreted, ignored and edited. In this regard concepts of "heresy" and "orthodoxy" are questions of power and not "right interpretation". (I find it rather strange that people refer to themselves as "heretical" in certain rp situations.)
Hmmmm... I wonder if the Unified in Unified Catholic Church has significance. I mean, the Amarr have a lot of islamic/hindu influence - perhaps by 3800 AD, those religions have meshed together somewhat.
Perhaps the religious people of the milky way were becoming a sort of minority. Forced to unify and band together in the growing face of secularism/atheism everywhere else (the logical and inevitable conclusion to any religious society.) Maybe that's why the Conformists fled to Soekheviti, then New Eden.
-
According to the back-story in 3805 "the Conformists, a group within the Unified Catholic Church, settles on Soekhetvi". Dano Gheinok, who is "one of there leaders" in 7989 directs them to Athra. So there is a genealogical connection to Christianity. (Cf. http://www.eveonline.com/races/amarr_timeline.asp).
Can't see where it says that the Unified Catholic Church is in any way related to Christianity.
Etymology
From Latin catholicus from Ancient Greek καθολικός (katholikos) from κατά (kata, “according to”) + ὅλος (holos, “whole”)
Adjective
catholic (comparative more catholic, superlative most catholic)
1. All inclusive; pertaining to all mankind.
He has catholic tastes.
EDIT: and church is a Germanic word with origins in Ancient Greek (κυριακόν, kyriakon) which was most likely used well before the spread of Christianity
-
Huh... learn something new every day.
-
According to the back-story in 3805 "the Conformists, a group within the Unified Catholic Church, settles on Soekhetvi". Dano Gheinok, who is "one of there leaders" in 7989 directs them to Athra. So there is a genealogical connection to Christianity. (Cf. http://www.eveonline.com/races/amarr_timeline.asp).
Can't see where it says that the Unified Catholic Church is in any way related to Christianity.
Etymology
From Latin catholicus from Ancient Greek καθολικός (katholikos) from κατά (kata, “according to”) + ὅλος (holos, “whole”)
Adjective
catholic (comparative more catholic, superlative most catholic)
1. All inclusive; pertaining to all mankind.
He has catholic tastes.
EDIT: and church is a Germanic word with origins in Ancient Greek (κυριακόν, kyriakon) which was most likely used well before the spread of Christianity
It's not a necessary connection, but in common use//connotation, it's almost always used to refer to the Roman Catholic Church. As Istvaan has helpfully demonstrated for us (thanks bro), most English speakers aren't aware of the 'real' definition of the term. It's not a huge leap to imagine that whoever wrote that, especially if they were a non-native speaker, was using it in the former sense.
-
Timescale, guys... Even if the first Amarrian settlers were Christian, and the emphasis on religion in the society still comes from that tradition, it's been a couple of TENS of thousands of years and a collapse of civilization since. The Christianity today is only two thousand years old (an order of magnitude shorter), and has already evolved to sects I suspect would have been pretty unrecognisable for the first followers. If we are talking about the Amarrian religion today, I don't think who the first settlers were actually is even relevant.
-
Timescale, guys... Even if the first Amarrian settlers were Christian, and the emphasis on religion in the society still comes from that tradition, it's been a couple of TENS of thousands of years and a collapse of civilization since. The Christianity today is only two thousand years old (an order of magnitude shorter), and has already evolved to sects I suspect would have been pretty unrecognisable for the first followers. If we are talking about the Amarrian religion today, I don't think who the first settlers were actually is even relevant.
Also true.
-
Did the dark times period not take place after Gheniok? We should be really looking at what happened after that time period rather then what happened before. It would provide the best result of what has shaped Amarrian faith to date.
On a side note, I know the takmahl were at the top of their game when it came to cybernetics and bio-engineering. Maybe it was that same technology used in the Emperors to keep them alive for so long. hmmmmmm.
-
Right, and I referenced the timescale issues in the OP. It would be folly to assume that twenty-first century Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or anything else would be recognizable to most followers of Amarrian religion. But at the same time, the Talmud, Gospels, Epistles, and so forth might have a small place among the (now greatly enlarged) Scriptures and that some small portion might place high value upon them. Similarly, some Christians believe that the Ten Commandments should continue to provide a ruleset for their lives, whereas others believe that the Mosaic Law no longer has validity.
As far as UCC: among the various Catholic churches (Roman, Orthodox, etc.), the term "unified" has a very specific meaning. I see no reason not to interpret it in that sense, and while the word "catholic" does of course mean "universal", that's also where the "Catholic Church" originally derived its name. Personally, I don't understand taking a term that makes perfect sense in context and assuming that it actually means something else. :)
That said, the idea that the unification included something much greater than just the Catholic denominations also could make sense.
-
Amarrians are the space Jews.
care to explain?
-
I always took a futuristic Arab/Persian aesthetic with the Amarr. It's in the names especially, lots of "Ak" stuff lying around.
I think CCP have developed Amarrian religion enough to significantly distance itself from Christianity, standing on its own.
-
Religion is always changing, so that which the Amarr follow now would be unreconisable to the people that entered the EVE Gate and subsequently brought about the religion.
Show a Christian from 1,000 years ago what their church is like and they'd scream heresy. Doctrines change - albeit slowly - so any minor similarities between the Amarr religion and all other religion is purely accidental.
P.S.: This is as close to a discussion on religion as I'm getting.
-
Amarrians are the space Jews.
care to explain?
Sure.
Of the three current religions worshiping the Hebrew God (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) only one currently contains the concept of the Chosen People of God through blood, Judaism.
This can easily lead to 'us' vs 'them' mentality which can be easily interpreted as xenophobia.
The people that are referred in day to day language as Jews descend from twelve different tribes that all had their own lands, customs and practices when it comes to expressing their religious beliefs.
Tribe of Naphtali, a militaristic tribe, Tribe of Issachar, religious scholars, Tribe of Zebulun, scholars and scribes,... the list goes on.
What is common to all the tribes is that the deeds of your ancestors define your role in the society, those ancestors may be only part of the religious texts but your link through your blood and family gives you a connection to your religion that cannot be found in Christianity.
This connection is based on tradition that has been passed down the generations for millenia, there is similar traditional connections in the Islam where there are families that are direct descendants of one religious leader or another, family connections to your religion that go down the generations for centuries if not millenia (I met an egyptian guy who was supposedly descended from one of the religious leaders that rose up after their Prophet about 1400 years ago.)
This is probably one of the hardest concepts for a westerner to understand, at least I have struggled with it, there are houses in Ireland that were built around the same time that Finns were busy running away from bears in the forests, which basically means that my concept of family goes back only three generations.
Was there anything else?
Well, me personal view on the UCC is that it is a bit like Islam at the moment, in Islam they see Jesus as a prophet that was before their latest one.
Basically for me that means that at some point in history (perhaps when the UCC was formed) the different sects of the same religion (worshiping of the Hebrew God) put aside their differences, did the ecumenical thing and got all the different sects under the same Church.
Created their UCC Bible and let the local churches deal with the issue of whom of the holy people the local people wanted to worship.
The marriage of church and state in the Empire is easy.
The lineages have never been broken (or new ones have risen) and the first leaders took their mantles as Kings to lead their people in a time of crisis.
Kings of the different tribes or lineages formed a council which elected an Emperor who was the first among equals.
Empire got a big crisis, council elected an Emperor that did not want to let go of the power which lead to Moral Reforms.
Which lead to the current system.
But I am rambling, better get something else done.
-
Of the three current religions worshiping the Hebrew God (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) only one currently contains the concept of the Chosen People of God through blood, Judaism.
That is a common misconception. The concept of the “chosen people” exists also within other religions, even in the ones you have named. Within Christianity you have many denominations who consider themselves to be chosen. In Sunni Islam you have—in simplified terms—the concept of a global umma vs. the nonbelievers. In and Out groups are almost everywhere when it comes to religion.
Can't see where it says that the Unified Catholic Church is in any way related to Christianity.
Well, it doesn’t. But CCP is a company based in Iceland, so we can assume that western concepts of religion aren’t unknown to them and can also assume that their works contain some play with accessible connotations. If you want to design a religion that is “understandable” for the “consumer” you wouldn’t refer to the Maori concept of life and death for example, but to more common stuff.
EDIT: and church is a Germanic word with origins in Ancient Greek (κυριακόν, kyriakon) which was most likely used well before the spread of Christianity
Church is not a Germanic word but a loanword from medieval Greek kyriakón doma = The Lord’s House. Since it is a loanword from medieval Greek the English/German word “church/Kirche” hasn’t been used before the spread of Christianity, especially not in the sense of a building. However, not the building is addressed here, because a building cannot be universal (καθολικός). Thus “church” refers to ἐκκλησία “assembly” or “congregation”, “church” which is widely used in a Christian (or colonial, translatio religionis-style) context. The Christian framework is—among other things—aesthetically supported by the emblem of the Theology Council which bears a cross-like symbol (and by the way: Theology is a Christian term, Judaism doesn’t use the word and in Islam there is a debate whether to use it or not), by the “medieval” appearance of the “monks”, the concept of sacred kinship etc.
Anyhow, this doesn’t mean much. As I and many others have already pointed out: There are huge differences within religious groups, both on a horizontally and a vertically time scale. The key concept here is reception. Plus: What happens to Amarrian Religion (wherever it derives from) in Khanid context (Mongolian? Japanese? I would say Ottoman)?
Best,
Odelya
-
Very intresting stuff. Ive been trying to get my head around all the aspects of the amarr religion but its a daunting task. Especially since so many of it is open to different interpretation.
For instance the sefrim, has anyone ever wondered/questioned what they really are?. Its seem to me they were really there. But how or what were they? Angels or something els? Jovians?
So many questions, so little time, even for a Capsuleer.
-
Y'know how the Sefrim are described as having golden masks, to conceal their burning radiance?
[spoiler](http://www.wallpapergate.com/data/media/355/Astronaut_003.jpg)[/spoiler]
-
I mentioned this on the EM forums once, but it made sense to me about how to view the Amarrian faith. The best concept I had of the Amarrian faith was a cult, very loosely based on Judeo-Christian ideology and symbology, who voluntarily left for the frontier to create their own "pure" society. Think the Pilgrims of North America, or the various migrations of sects over the world who left their home, or, perhaps more telling, Jim Jones setting up a colony in South America.
It's quite likely that that the proto-Amarrian faith was vastly different from "mainstream" catholic(little-c)/Christianity/whatever, even at that time. Mainstream, orthodox religions don't pack up and go form their own communities in the frontier, thats typically the actions of the unorthodox, the radical, or the just plan nutty.
Thinking of the Amarrian faith as a Jim Jones-esque religious colony that was cut off from Earth society, survived, refined its doctrine and expanded and created an Empire conceptually make sense to me, as well as making them quite scary.
-
Amarrians are the space Jews.
care to explain?
Sure.
{Stuff}
But I am rambling, better get something else done.
You appear to have missed the simplest answer, imo. The Amarrian God is way closer in character to the Old Testament God. All those happy-clappy child-friendly New Testament bits have no place in the Amarrian faith: it's all badass child-killing and pillars of salt shit. No wonder Amarrians don't smile much... :)
I wonder how much is pure speculation on someone's behalf that the current trend towards fundamentalism could lead to a gradual shedding of many of the moderate Christian / Islamic / Jewish doctrines until you have something almost entirely unrecognisable to modern day moderate monotheistic religions. Something that would perhaps be somewhat familiar to Abraham. It's an interesting extrapolation.
Eve players often spend time trying to figure out who the factions most closely resemble in character. We quibble over nations and races and bloodlines and philosophies. I suspect the more accurate speculation would simply relate Eve's factions with existing factions within our own western societies today. I tend to see the Amarrians as a criticism or at least a parody of today's extremists.
-
there's a mission "the anomaly", a pop up from someone in it says:
I wonder, are you familiar with the concept of hell? Even the most fervently spiritual Amarrians believe in heaven yet scorn the concept of hell as outdated - hell, my people believe, is a state of mind. I am coming to think that this may be true.
possibly relevant.
-
o.O
Without Hell there is no real incentive to have Faith.
You need the whip cracking to be a True Believer, not a fucking carrot.
-
Apparently not.
-
Y'know how the Sefrim are described as having golden masks, to conceal their burning radiance?
[spoiler](http://www.wallpapergate.com/data/media/355/Astronaut_003.jpg)[/spoiler]
So the quote/translation missed a word? conceal them from burning radiance?
-
Hell: A state of separation from God; exclusion from God's presence.
That seems to the working definition in mind, in lieu of a literal place.
-
Y'know how the Sefrim are described as having golden masks, to conceal their burning radiance?
[spoiler](http://www.wallpapergate.com/data/media/355/Astronaut_003.jpg)[/spoiler]
We could have a whole thread going through Ametat and Avetat pointing out the visitation of Athra by another people, you know.