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[Elmund Egivand]

Personally, when I decided to RP, first thing I thought was look at my activities. Then I look at my character. Then I look at faction and bloodline background. Then I figured, how to spin it all to make it sound interesting?

End result is a guy from Skarkon who came from a semi-isolationist clan out in the woods (with very dim view on the Republic) and a family of mechanics, technicians and engineers who went out into the world because the clan needs to know more about what's going on out there. Then I load him up with as much Matar culture and characteristics as I can and try to refine and polish him so he makes sense as a Matar freelance capsuleer trying to live his life out there in space full of sharks (other capsuleers), while struggling to stay grounded as a person rather than a sociopathic technical-immortal with a God complex.

[Silas Vitalia]

Sounds like a good approach!

[Gaven Lok ri]

Gaven being nobility is less a mary sue thing and more (As Silas already pointed out) a product of the Amarr character creation information. Similarly, given the career in PIE, the naval background just made sense.

But his particular foibles like wearing a dress sword and extremely fancy clothing to formal events.... those are more than a little mary sue.

[Elmund Egivand]

Gaven being nobility is less a mary sue thing and more (As Silas already pointed out) a product of the Amarr character creation information. Similarly, given the career in PIE, the naval background just made sense.

But his particular foibles like wearing a dress sword and extremely fancy clothing to formal events.... those are more than a little mary sue.

Makes sense. I suspect only Holders are the ones with the money to be a capsuleer in the Amarr Empire. Anyone else will need to be sponsored by a Holder or an organization.

And nobility have bourgeois dress sense typically.

[Gaven Lok ri]

Not *only* holders. But roughly 2/3rds of specifically True Amarr capsuleers are nobility (assuming random spread of background choices, in practice I imagine it is more lopsided). So roughly 3/9ths of Amarrian capsuleers should be nobles (the extra 1 comes from non-True Amarr nobility). A much smaller percentage of that would be actual holders, which means they are certainly both over-represented among RPers and underrepresented in the larger player base. This is reconcilable IC by suggesting that bona fide holders would be the least likely candidates to go 0.0ing, so they are more likely to still be connected to empire happenings, i.e., to RP.

But in the Silas and Gaven case, it's worth pointing out that the distinction between holder as a class and holder as the official title was much less clear in those early days.

These days we talk about someone being a holder as specifically being a title. So you can be noble while not being a holder. Back then I thought of holder more as like a caste, so nobility and holder were  synonymous. I don't think I would have made Gaven a head of household type holder in the modern RP sense if I was making him today, but that sort of got grandfathered in over the years as things crystallized.

[Halcyon]

Halcyon isn't noted for suffering from back pain. I have vague reasonings for that. I think that's as crazy op as I get.

[Silas Vitalia]

But in the Silas and Gaven case, it's worth pointing out that the distinction between holder as a class and holder as the official title was much less clear in those early days.

These days we talk about someone being a holder as specifically being a title. So you can be noble while not being a holder. Back then I thought of holder more as like a caste, so nobility and holder were  synonymous. I don't think I would have made Gaven a head of household type holder in the modern RP sense if I was making him today, but that sort of got grandfathered in over the years as things crystallized.

You have it exactly right I think.

Interestingly enough it's an odd case of many of the RPers with 9 or 10 year RP characters that started off a bit Mary Sue that sort of through sheer patience and being old bittervets eventually get all the 'end game' content and their characters get less Mary Sue the older they get...

[Mitara Newelle]

Here goes:

• Raised in extreme poverty(initially): check
• Raised by someone other than her parents(later): check
• Sexually abused as a child(nearly): check
• Tragic loss of a family member(while very young): check
• Skilled in martial arts or hand-to-hand combat(learned in teens + Navy): check

[Anyanka Funk]

Anya gave birth inside her pod while in Anoikis. Then she ate the still birth because red god told her to. Not sure if that is mary sue or not. But that is what made her search for the voice in her head which she discovered is red god. She still hears voices even after every clone death so it must be red god. Also, she tortures and/or eats people.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

<snip>
Mixed race Brutor and Sebiestor
<snip>

You as well? Arnulf has the same mix & I half expected him to get some static from people playing tribal traditionalists. Never happened though.

[Saede Riordan]

<snip>
Mixed race Brutor and Sebiestor
<snip>

You as well? Arnulf has the same mix & I half expected him to get some static from people playing tribal traditionalists. Never happened though.

I RPed there being some racism regarding being a mutt in Saede's backstory, but nothing I've ever actually really addressed. Its never been made a big deal of ICly by anyone.

[Elmund Egivand]

<snip>
Mixed race Brutor and Sebiestor
<snip>

You as well? Arnulf has the same mix & I half expected him to get some static from people playing tribal traditionalists. Never happened though.

I RPed there being some racism regarding being a mutt in Saede's backstory, but nothing I've ever actually really addressed. Its never been made a big deal of ICly by anyone.

After all the space bullshit we had been through, mix-raced anyone doesn't make us bat our eyelids.

Unless we are hardcore U-Nats or True Amarr zealots or Provists or other forms of extremists or whatever.

[Gaven Lok ri]

But in the Silas and Gaven case, it's worth pointing out that the distinction between holder as a class and holder as the official title was much less clear in those early days.

These days we talk about someone being a holder as specifically being a title. So you can be noble while not being a holder. Back then I thought of holder more as like a caste, so nobility and holder were  synonymous. I don't think I would have made Gaven a head of household type holder in the modern RP sense if I was making him today, but that sort of got grandfathered in over the years as things crystallized.

You have it exactly right I think.

Interestingly enough it's an odd case of many of the RPers with 9 or 10 year RP characters that started off a bit Mary Sue that sort of through sheer patience and being old bittervets eventually get all the 'end game' content and their characters get less Mary Sue the older they get...

Yeah, there is a certain sense in which Gaven should be more mary sue than he is just because his employment history is... well... pretty damn unique. Instead, I have been toning down the mary sue elements that 18 year old me thought were decent ideas and 28 year old me thinks are idiotic ones.

[Silas Vitalia]

Yeah, there is a certain sense in which Gaven should be more mary sue than he is just because his employment history is... well... pretty damn unique. Instead, I have been toning down the mary sue elements that 18 year old me thought were decent ideas and 28 year old me thinks are idiotic ones.

I'd argue simple age carries the day for some of this stuff.  For "older" Amarr characters like a Gaven or Graelyn you don't have to talk about all of the Mary Sue bits, you can often get the +10 RP acknowledgement of your things just by people looking at your character bio and employment history.   I've always liked that part of our little RP world, where fresh out of school capsuleer might say something pithy to a Graelyn sort, and then someone else might say "this guy was out doing X purging blood raiders while you were still getting teased in baseliner academy school, show some respect."

I happen to like both sorts of characters; the young upstarts who are eager to make a mark and maybe don't agree with some of the older established lines of deference and respect and conduct, and then the older types occasionally laying the verbal smackdown. This is especially dynamic in "today's" PF situation, where the Amarr PF bloc is undergoing tremendous social upheavals and there are lots of 'new money' and different sorts of holders and the society is becoming a bit stressed related to the old school social orders.  I find those dynamics interesting in the Amarr sphere of RP, but I imagine some very similar sorts of interactions in say a Caldari corp where the younger 'employees' are expected to not mouth off to the XO's or whatever.

[Jace]

I'm a Mary Sue IRL.