Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Synthia on 03 Oct 2013, 12:50
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Embrace Failure.
Sometimes, I feel that many players are afraid of "failing" in some way with their RP. That somehow, if their character does not succeed with something, then that is always a Bad Thing.
I can appreciate the frustrations that come when a player is unable to play the character they would like, due to player limitations on skill, wit, imagination etc. If a character is supposed to be a good pilot, but the player is clumsy, then yeah, it gets frustrating.
Anyway, I think many people would agree that members of CTCS, and possibly Synthia in particular, do not seem afraid of looking like a, well, a bit of a berk, on the IGS or "the summit".
Leaping to the wrong conclusion, grabbing the wrong end of the stick, grasping at straws and such.
However, I think that failure is valuable RP in its own right, as it gives opportunity to reflect on things. And in science RP, it can be useful in avoiding any issues of "god moding" - "We found No Significant Correlation" is possibly more useful to collaborative RP than finding Something.
Maybe e-peen waving gets in the way?
Would RP be more enjoyable if more characters did not seem to be afraid of looking like a fool once in a while ?
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The problem stems from the nature of Eve in itself. It is frightening to fail not because of the failure, it is scaring to fail due to the ensuing loss of all credibility or just ending like the laughting stock of the cluster. Most of the time, characters that fail, not in combat, but just manage to look silly in one way or another (the most lethal death ever in Eve RP), have the risk to end definitely wasted.
However, the best solution is to persist. Best examples of universally hated and laughed at characters like DK, Valerie, etc, eventually won their places because they continued to stand firmly.
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I agree with Synthia. Without failures, weaknesses and making mistakes (by choice, not accident) rp will become a dull show of egos—and I don't need to play a game for that.
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Anyway, I think many people would agree that members of CTCS, and possibly Synthia in particular, do not seem afraid of looking like a, well, a bit of a berk, on the IGS or "the summit".
That's fortunate.
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What kinds of failures would you like to see more of?
Just curious.
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I am, to some degree a cautious pilot/FC/player in general. This has certainly leaked over in some capacity to my RP - after all, it'd be kind of dumb of me to play a smoke-snorting, chomping-at-the-bit character if I can't as a player perform those actions - but to another degree I deliberately wrote Esna as a cautious, cover-all-the-bases personality.
My reasoning was that as a Holder - where politics are known to be cutthroat and even a small misstep could be seized on by rivals - it would make sense for him to not want an opening to be given. This was later added on to Esna being someone who learns from his mistakes, so past things weren't likely to be repeated.
Thoughts? Reasonable, good / no good?
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In general people don't enjoy failure or being wrong. It's human nature. When confronted with a failure, many people react in one of two ways. The first is by digging in deeper, defending their efforts. Usually they'll find an "out" that will allow them to accept the failure and saving their own perceived self worth. The other is to flee from the conflict, ignoring the issue or taking it as a personal defeat. They won't usually acknowledge the failure.
What happens when someone continues on a path that is inherently against their nature?
That's reactive though; why don't people take proactive actions that place them in those kind of situations? Again, human nature. Why would you invest effort in a project doomed to failure from the start?
I feel RP along the lines of the IGS accurately reflect the interplay of these aspects of human psychology perfectly. When someone tries to change that very organic interaction into a forced simulation of interaction, notably entering into endeavors that are obviously doomed, I lose interest.
Would RP be more enjoyable if more characters did not seem to be afraid of looking like a fool once in a while ?
Everyone I know has looked like a fool occasionally. Whether they acknowledge it or those they are close to acknowledge it? That's a different story. Artificially creating those "Oh geez, I'm an idiot!" moments usually just don't work for me. It's obvious, it's painful, and uncomfortable.
Here's the thing though: The bullies and cool kids don't usually get told they look like idiots in their "I'm going as myself" costumes on Halloween, or when their shoelaces are untied and they trip down the stairs. People just laugh behind their backs because they're afraid of bringing attention to the situation.
It happens in RP as well. Not only that, but when people make "mistakes" in-character those mistakes often are seen as failures of the person behind the character. Sometimes people can get downright cruel.
Just something to get everyone thinking. :oops:
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Phew! An area of 'doingitbad' that Pieter and myself are OBVIOUSLY not guilty of!
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Embrace Failure.
It embraces me enough already. I don't need to embrace it too. 8)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXW02XmBGQw
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If you don't care about your failures, why should others bother to point them out? Just my approach to it.
(i.e. whateva whateva i do wha' I wan'!)
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Failure is great and often more interesting than victory. Samira's had quite a few personal failures over the last few months, and while in some areas it's been disappointing, it would be poor RP to ignore it! It's best to learn to roll with things.
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Tbh, I think I have too much failures lately already
- failure at dinner
- failure at suicide
- failure at execution
- failure at interrogation
- failure at sex
- failure at hand to hand combat (twice!)
- failure at sword combat
- failure at bragging
- failure at science
- failure at hiding emotions
- failure at keeping mouth shut
- failure at drinking
- failure at lying
- failure at killing
Well, I think I need now some successes... For example, make a huge scientific experiment that...
will end in huge failure/disaster, since possibility for success is not provided by lore and/or game mechanics :lol:
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I've personally alllowed aeista to fall into a few "failures" in her time that are known of.
But, there's failures and then there's histrionic flailing of "LOOK AT MY FUCK UP!" .. which simply doesn't fit the character model of Ari to show off.
People know what she has done wrong. vOv
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You bring up good points, and it's probably a reason why so many RP is mainly chatter or 'static'. A good way around this is (in my humble opinion) to not only plan for succes, but also plan for failiure. What route would you go if you would actually fail/lose or otherwise not gotten what you preferred? This can also lead into very interesting RP (much more then 'I always win/ Am victorious' imo)
My char had it's successes, but also it's downfalls & failiures over time, she's far from being a perfect Podpilot.
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Failure can be fun.
The referendum failed pretty terribly and look at the massive avenue that opened up. Brought in a swath of players to the thread and to the event that would have if it was just a 'weee, clean cut Federate democratic wankfest' and created intra-factional and inter-factional conflict in a deep storyline.
And I didn't get made fun of IC too much (barring by the rascal Pieter).
Let's all fail more often. Shame our adored factions for greater good of EVErp. :twisted:
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Tbh Mantenault was a big bet. It was willingly done to portray a bad side of the federal democracy. I think it was executed well enough and probably appreciated for other factions not to fall on it like sharks smelling blood.
But so many things could have gone wrong to begin with... I was more or less expecting it to go down, but eventually I got proven wrong.
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Tbh Mantenault was a big bet. It was willingly done to portray a bad side of the federal democracy. I think it was executed well enough and probably appreciated for other factions not to fall on it like sharks smelling blood.
But so many things could have gone wrong to begin with... I was more or less expecting it to go down, but eventually I got proven wrong.
Never doubt freedom, Lyn.
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Sociokrauts do not believe in freedom :twisted:
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Failure can be fun.
The referendum failed pretty terribly and look at the massive avenue that opened up. Brought in a swath of players to the thread and to the event that would have if it was just a 'weee, clean cut Federate democratic wankfest' and created intra-factional and inter-factional conflict in a deep storyline.
And I didn't get made fun of IC too much (barring by the rascal Pieter).
Let's all fail more often. Shame our adored factions for greater good of EVErp. :twisted:
I kid, I kid. I love, but I kid.
Seriously Laurent, that was a very nice thread. Did you provide ALL the actors from planetside or was there a team of you?
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Failure can be fun.
The referendum failed pretty terribly and look at the massive avenue that opened up. Brought in a swath of players to the thread and to the event that would have if it was just a 'weee, clean cut Federate democratic wankfest' and created intra-factional and inter-factional conflict in a deep storyline.
And I didn't get made fun of IC too much (barring by the rascal Pieter).
Let's all fail more often. Shame our adored factions for greater good of EVErp. :twisted:
I kid, I kid. I love, but I kid.
Seriously Laurent, that was a very nice thread. Did you provide ALL the actors from planetside or was there a team of you?
The only character I controlled throughout the thread was Laurentis. :D
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So, what if your character fails to achieve goals due to the challenges of game mechanics and real-world human motivations?
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Jake Favre is my alt, which might be rather obvious considering the employment history.
To be honest it was pretty much organic and I went with what was given each time. It's best that way imo, you never know how it will turn and it develops organically.
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This is an interesting issue and I have two related questions.
1) If someone wants to do "serious" military/cyberpunk/space-UN/transhumanist/revenge/etc sci-fi, how much failure can be mixed in before it becomes a parody?
I think this is a problem especially for new players and corps, and the competitive side of EVE RP kind of exacerbates it further. It seems to be a common practice to shame new, unsuspecting loyalist or charity organizations with generous bribes from their natural enemies, or to crush the new combat-oriented start-ups with an overwhelming military power. After the credibility of the original idea has been destroyed, many players just seem to prefer to move on and do something else, instead of wearing the mask of a clown.
Not saying I disapprove these tactics, they are clever and totally in line with the ruthless, hateful and grimdark nature of New Eden. But they have their consequences.
2) What's the right amount of fail?
When I browse the IGS, there seems to have been countless characters who were not afraid of ridicule, failed a lot and eventually got rejected as too silly and trollish. Avoiding all light-hearted interaction is a guarantee against going too far, but is there a better way to determine where the dividing line goes? In an international group with players from all ages and backgrounds, it's not clear that everyone would even draw the line in the same place.
Jake Favre is my alt, which might be rather obvious considering the employment history.
Gasp. It was you! Wasn't obvious at all. Great job :D
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I agree with Synthia. Without failures, weaknesses and making mistakes (by choice, not accident) rp will become a dull show of egos—and I don't need to play a game for that.
I don't think I've ever had Makkal fail 'by choice.' She attempts to do something and it either works or it doesn't. It's rare that I'm in charge of the consequences.
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This is an interesting issue and I have two related questions.
1) If someone wants to do "serious" military/cyberpunk/space-UN/transhumanist/revenge/etc sci-fi, how much failure can be mixed in before it becomes a parody?
I think this is a problem especially for new players and corps, and the competitive side of EVE RP kind of exacerbates it further. It seems to be a common practice to shame new, unsuspecting loyalist or charity organizations with generous bribes from their natural enemies, or to crush the new combat-oriented start-ups with an overwhelming military power. After the credibility of the original idea has been destroyed, many players just seem to prefer to move on and do something else, instead of wearing the mask of a clown.
Not saying I disapprove these tactics, they are clever and totally in line with the ruthless, hateful and grimdark nature of New Eden. But they have their consequences.
2) What's the right amount of fail?
When I browse the IGS, there seems to have been countless characters who were not afraid of ridicule, failed a lot and eventually got rejected as too silly and trollish. Avoiding all light-hearted interaction is a guarantee against going too far, but is there a better way to determine where the dividing line goes? In an international group with players from all ages and backgrounds, it's not clear that everyone would even draw the line in the same place.
Jake Favre is my alt, which might be rather obvious considering the employment history.
Gasp. It was you! Wasn't obvious at all. Great job :D
I believe, from my perspective, that the right amount of fail is what is simply 'within reason'. What we are doing in the EVE universe as roleplayers is telling a story. If I remember the English lessons where they covered short story writing, you're supposed to have a 'complication' or 'conflict' in the story to keep it interesting. Otherwise you'd be telling a story about nothing.
While that's certainly possible for expositions sake as part of a character's backstory, it isn't going to bring people into an event as such.
Don't fail every time, but expect there to be an obstacle. What happens then is, whether or not it is solved, how it is solved, and what that means. There is an option on each of those levels for it to be considered a 'victory' or a 'failure' for your character, and to varying degrees. That can be worked out through game-mechanics or through discussion with other participants.
Anything can be worked out, provided everyone is reasonable and respectful to the original idea and to the wish of every player to maintain a certain level of integrity.
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The majority of my RP is my failures. I never connect to the summit to throw my solo kills or what my fleet I lead did. Always fuck, I died to a gatecamp. I was too drunk to turn on my reps. Etc...
Personally I thrive on adversity, non-public failure doesn't teach me like making it public. Plus I love to RP Aya as impulsive and angry. Remind people there is a Kameira under the trained politeness.
I agree with OP, embrace failure. It shows more about your character how you act in defeat, failure, loss, and adversity. Get back up or lay there and take it.
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The majority of my RP is my failures. I never connect to the summit to throw my solo kills or what my fleet I lead did. Always fuck, I died to a gatecamp. I was too drunk to turn on my reps. Etc...
Personally I thrive on adversity, non-public failure doesn't teach me like making it public. Plus I love to RP Aya as impulsive and angry. Remind people there is a Kameira under the trained politeness.
I agree with OP, embrace failure. It shows more about your character how you act in defeat, failure, loss, and adversity. Get back up or lay there and take it.
I can +1 this, having been privy to her posting in the Bringing Solo Back channel. No, it's not IGS, but I think it's a lil more entertaining than the serious "pontifications" and oratorial ejaculations that seem to plague IGS (yes, I understand that :PvPWithWords: is just as supersrsbizness as :l337SpaceshipPvP:, but it's not really my cup of tea).
On the subject of failure, I fail all the time. Look at me on BC. I fail, I re-ship, and I try a different approach, "get right back on the horse", so to speak. I disagree with the assertion that the only two true approaches to failure are "sour grapes" or "quiet/histrionic acceptance, followed by quitting". In truth, neither approach is very helpful if your goal is to actually learn from the failure and improve.
How much would you learn if after every loss or failure, you go "Meh, didn't really want that ship anyway," or "I'm great, just (insert random excuse here), I'll get em next time!"?? Obviously you'd learn nothing at all if you emotionally internalize the failure, go "I quit, never doing that again," and storm off -- well, you'd learn Quitting V pretty goddamned fast. That's about it, though.
It takes a degree of emotional and mental maturity to accept the loss/failure, see what you did wrong (and actually see what you did wrong, not just heap a load of blame on yourself), and figure out a way to correct it for future endeavors.
That's why you see so many shitty people on the RL planet nowadays: an excess of self-esteem coupled with the "sour grapes" or "do it perfectly the first time, or not at all" mentality as a self-preservation mechanism for that vain image of what they think they are, vice what they actually are.
Want to know why in-game RP doesn't work in EVE? Someone already hit that nail on the head: you can't just say "Look at me, I'm an awesome space pilot," because then you have to back it up with actions. If you can't, then yes, you do end up looking like a fool, and rightfully so.
If you're a 5'5" waif of a guy with no martial arts training and walk into a biker bar, pick out the biggest, meanest-looking dude in the bunch, and go "Hey bubba, Im'ma kick your ass," ... well, after everyone finishes laughing at you, Bubba is probably gonna kick your ass and toss you out face-first on the sidewalk. Call me an elitist dick, but that sounds about right to me.
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So, what if your character fails to achieve goals due to the challenges of game mechanics and real-world human motivations?
If failure to achieve goals is due to game mechanics, I just have Elmund go get a stiff drink, talk about the failure, troubleshoot, reship and try again. Not all that different from what I'm already doing.
Capsuleer Elmund may be, but he isn't exactly an omniscient deity and he recognised that. He did, after all, join the capsuleer society without knowing anything about what capsuleering is about other than fly ship and shoot people. It took him a while, with some guidance to figure it all out, but the experience did open his eyes that he is but a child, naive and impressionable and knowing absolutely jack all about anything but flying a ship. Making mistakes and learning from said mistake is an essential part of his life journey.
And this is why he is open to suggestion (though he won't follow suggestions blindly) and he is eager to know more about other societies and everything else. He did grow up in 'the frontier' and his experiences taught him that being an ignoramus is not a good way to survive and prosper.
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(Edit - I'm responding to Hong, for the record, though this post could also fit in over in the IGS claims/make-shit-up thread.)
The problem I see here is twofold.
First: It's one thing to do a lot of worldbuilding, and use it in your RP and reflect it in your ingame activities. It's another to put yourself/your character up on a giant pedestal set on a flimsy foundation of cards that you either cannot or will not back up with ingame action.
Second: I think a lot of people are getting confused about, or are disagreeing with each other over, what counts as the former, and what counts as the latter.
For example:
Morwen has lived in highsec for the last two years, after a semi-forced retirement from piracy. I have spent a lot of that time doing PVE - mostly exploration, but some missions and incursions too - and occasionally went hunting stupid people who go suspect/criminal in highsec while flying flimsy shit. But I've also taken various things about the corporation and the people running it, and then adapted what I do ingame to match (sometimes taking it a little too far, like how I've organized some of the corp hangars to represent planetside assets - Reppy has occasionally referred to it sarcastically as "playing house with the corp hangar").
I also have a fairly solid, if old, combat record in PVP. I know what I'm doing for the most part. I try to keep up on the fitting meta and what ships are being used and how. But I don't actively PVP anymore. I got tired of the blob-or-be-blobbed, nobody-wants-to-risk-anything metagame going on. Bluntly: I'm rusty. But Morwen doesn't pretend to be a hotshot combat pilot (she didn't really when I was actively PVPing, to be fair); she just lets her combat record speak for itself: It's a two-year-long record that shows a lot about what her flying and combat habits were back then, both good and bad, and also clearly shows that she hasn't been doing a lot of combat against other capsuleers lately, and is probably out of practice. Which is exactly how she plays it.
Now, I know people would call me on it if I went on and on about being an awesomesauce PVPer when I'm actually rusty as fuck and can't back it up. But what about for the other stuff? Most of the stuff I do ingame that contributes to my RP is entirely hidden from the rest of the community - if only because they're not standing behind me watching over my shoulder as I do it.
I can't prove that Morwen's rescued a sizable number of people from deadspace complexes belonging to the Blooders. Nor that she provides medical care for them before sending as many of them home (wherever that happens to be) as possible. Conversely, nobody can prove the opposite.
Due to the removal of standings visibility, I can't prove that Tyrathlion Interstellar provides, among other things, military contracting services (ie, mission-running) to a variety of (NPC) corporations around the cluster. Likewise, nobody can prove we don't.
How about a situation that doesn't relate to TYRIN and has nothing to do with me? There's an Amarrian RPer who doesn't frequent these forums (to my knowledge, anyway) whose character has holdings that have manufacturing plants and the like according to their RP. They set down a PI command center on the planet their holdings were supposed to be on (they might have even placed it in a specific spot to match the holdings as well, I don't recall), and use it to make PI goods that match their holdings' supposed exports. They can't prove that they actually do that. We don't get logs of who pushes what through customs offices. For the same reason, nobody can prove they don't.
I could go on, but I think the examples are sufficient as it stands: they all have to be taken at face value.
What I'm seeing here, is that some people take these scenarios, which in my mind are the former of the two cases posed above, and go "well, you can't prove it, therefore it absolutely, positively cannot be true in any way, shape or form", then treat it as if the second case is what actually applies.
And that, imo, is the root of the problem.
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The problem stems from the nature of Eve in itself. It is frightening to fail not because of the failure, it is scaring to fail due to the ensuing loss of all credibility or just ending like the laughting stock of the cluster. Most of the time, characters that fail, not in combat, but just manage to look silly in one way or another (the most lethal death ever in Eve RP), have the risk to end definitely wasted.
However, the best solution is to persist. Best examples of universally hated and laughed at characters like DK, Valerie, etc, eventually won their places because they continued to stand firmly.
I have lost more "RP" 1v1s than I have won.
I have lost every "Out of pod" fight I have ever participated in except one.
I dont think my credibility has suffered as a result of either. Far from. Ava feels very real to me, and others have commented the same, because she loses. She fails. She gets drunk and falls down and just in general has bad days. She is moody and often depressed.
Anyone afraid to fail because of ingame repercussions is missing out on what is, in my opinion, the best part about RP. Hey, anyone can look great and be all "rawr" when they win; how do they handle defeat?
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When I first started RPing, I thought the best way to balance my character was to have her fail in spectacular ways and have Bad Things™ happen to her. What I realized later, and have basically lived by since, is that EVE is a brutal game. I don't need to make my character fail, in order fail. Its EVE, I'm going to fail, I'm going to have ships explode. Saede is in a lot of ways, really sticking her neck out. Alexylva Paradox has lots and lots of in-space assets, assets that could be destroyed. There's lots of ways she could lose badly and have pretty much everyone she cares about killed. I wouldn't try to fudge around that if it happened, if I lose, I lose.
The issue with having characters who never fail tends to emerge more when you have people who never place themselves in a position where failure is possible. Failure, like all other RP really, is consensual at the end of the day, if someone doesn't consent to losing, they can avoid it. You can claim quite a lot in EVE, while keeping yourself in a very secure position. I think that tends to be what tweaks me out a bit, when you see characters in NPC corps talking about their vast estates, 3 day old holder characters with thousands, nay, millions of slaves. No one can do anything about them. We can't attack them, we can't interfere with them, we can't really do anything to effect the state of their RP. I would love if more people had exposed assets, things that could actually be fought over, and its sort of sad that we've gotten away from that as a community. It apparently used to be much more the case, and hopefully, with a bit of boldness, can be again.
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As a wise man who taught me to RP once said, "Nobody ever wins at RP. Either we all win together, or we all lose separately. RP's not a competitive sport."
So success, failure, and especially the bits in between are all character issues. What's important is to have a decent story come out of it. Case in point, I ended a year-long forum RP thread by essentially having our troupe lose, yet the heads of this criminal organization won. A few of the characters died, one killed by her own lover. The only one who completely and totally won was the head of the organization, and he did it by losing. Best ending I've ever directed in an RP.
So I wouldn't think about failure or success in those terms. We're all working together to advance our characters.
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I would say it mostly depends of the atmosphere. I have been able to portray weaknesses or failures in most channels or RP venues, even on the Summit on a few rare occasions. I would even say that Lyn tends to turn herself to ridicule pretty quickly.
But on venues like the IGS it's a whole different matter. I'm a lot more reluctant to fail on purpose - even if sometimes I do - because of the whole environment itself. The IGS is a special place where winning RP is king, as wrong as it sounds. I don't like that at all, but it's a ruthless place where you quickly end up with people slinging almost OOCly evelopedia links at the smallest occasion. The atmosphere does not tolerate well failure, and it usually can end up in characters ridiculed out forever.
Not always mind you. It also depends of the character in question.
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Steff has had some rather spectacular failures of late...and at first my reaction was to simply shuffle it under the rug and not really think about it (i.e. run from the failure). Ironically, Steff seems to be rather contrary in that regard as she's taken the failure and for the most part has rolled with the consequences.
The one thing that I have also found though is that dwelling on weaknesses and failures begins to feel like a different form of attention-seeking (something I myself am not comfortable with, being the centre of attention and that has come over into Steff as well). Bemoaning failure after failure can almost be as bad as the perfect person who never fails at anything. Yeah, EVE is grimdark, but I've already mentioned this before, grimdark 24/7 doesn't work; there does need to be some hope etc...
I do fear to fail, but at the same time, I'm finding a certain amount of thrill in taking on challenges in EVE. I fail at PVP...might get better at it (I hope), but I had fun nonetheless. I really wasn't expecting much with the whole orphanage thing...that's been a success with a glaring failure along the way. And I'm absolutely terrified that the masquerade event is going to be a disaster...but I'm pushing on with it (please come...please....sorry just had to throw that in there...or better yet, don't show to see how terribad it could be). Regardless, I'm having fun even if I'm getting sniped at on the forums or in channels.
Long story short: personal perspective failure is bad...from a writer/storyteller's point of view this is just fuel for the creative fire 8)
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This is new to me, discussing Jude in public.
One reason therefore is that I have never really had a plan with him, I simply played him as made sense, and this has given him a certain character. Then I based future decisions on the observations other made about his character.
Jude has been called a stoic by some. And this makes his rp bland sometimes. Perhaps the best way to put his perspective on success and failure is from the poem IF, by Rudyard Kipling
"If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same"
(A wonderful poem by the way, one I read often)
This is not to say Jude does not fail or succeed. He just does not make a big deal out of it,
However, I think any who get close to him will see he carries his failures around him like a cloak. They are there to see in much of what he says and does, but they are all part of him, not some external thing. His best failures makes him grow, his worst ones makes it very hard to see anything more than his public persona.
Anyway, just my take relating to a very specific character. The amount of corps I have started should indicate that I am willing to try things at least.
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I tend to tie my roleplay with gameplay pretty intimately, to the point where a failure on my part as a player can also be considered an in-character failure (most often in the form of losing ships or other assets). This is probably a pretty high-stakes way of doing things, but I prefer this over "deciding" whether or not Streya fails at a given task. By having my success or failure be dependent on my skills as a player I prevent myself from having Streya make claims which are too tall or unbelievable. In other words, with the way I roleplay I'm forced to accept failure because asset loss is undeniable in a game where killboards are public.
It's pretty fun IMO, since it intensifies the consequences of success or failure and how it impacts e-reputation.
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I was thinking a lot about it lately, and I think it is time to change my attitude towards failure. Despite I still consider them fun, sad fact, they stain reputation of my character, and not everyone will value it. One rather annoying case have opened my eyes on this.
In short, one unpleasant player agreed to roleplay with me, for me to lose. Conditions of losing were chosen by said player, and, as I understood it, implied rather humiliating (from point of view of said player) consequences, that losing party had to follow. Nevermind, I have agreed to them. Unfortunately, when the time came to RP itself, said player simply withdrawn when realized, that it required exact playing, and not receiving this result "for free". So, when I confronted character of this player with losing, I got complete denial, rivers of drama and mounds of insults (and I prefer to stop it here, no more details will be given, and I won't answer any questions about this part to prevent escalation/drama/further tears/derailing etc, unless asked in private)
I am not saying that everyone is like this. I sincerely hope that there are no other peoples like this in RP community. And I am not saying, that I will stop losing completely, and become something like "Im a kameira/duster/whatever thus you die, when i try to cut your head off with my sword/draw my gun/whatever". Instead, I will be "trading" my loss with something from your character as well. And of course, I will continue to provide "guides" how to defeat my character, if any of you will be interested, if your method won't work. Of course, for a price as well.
Otherwise, I will keep my character a hard nut and will try to make her to behave like a professional, like she should be.
Oh, and for those, whom I already promised my loss... my word remains in force, don't worry, you can defeat me without giving anything in return.
The only thing that bothers me now, is that I don't know how long I will be able to keep it this way and will break again to losing for fun on any occasion...
Onward to long road of building die hard character~~ go! :twisted:
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Glad to see you back. I thought you were gone forever
*tackle*
Reason for me to resub, add a tickmark!