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[Bacchanalian]

Catching up a bit on this one

Bach, are you suggesting it is unfair that the Goon leader was treated differently than the low-level scammer?

I'm not really suggesting anything, I'm merely bringing up another similar story with a different outcome that garnered different reactions.  I think it's an interesting to discuss the similarities and differences.

[Seriphyn]

Bacch, I don't suppose you are particularly bothered by CCP's response to the Mittani due to OOC/OOG connections? I may be miffed if my friend got treated in such and such way, too.

[Silas Vitalia]

Gotcha. I think the main difference is M. had an audience for his conduct and this other goon didn't?

Nobody's cheat on their wives all the time and no one cares, but when someone in the public eye does, they are held to a different standard.

[Jev North]

Basically. I figure CCP can't be seen condoning goading people into suicide, and that'd be the way things would be explained if they'd let Mittens' behaviour go by unpunished. This other case is simply a lot more low-profile, and a lot more murky than a public call to goad a guy into offing himself, no matter how facetious it was or wasn't.

[Morwen Lagann]

I suspect the majority of folks at CCP, like most people, wouldn't have given two shits about this incident had it not happened in such a high-profile manner because they wouldn't have heard about it in order to have any shits to give.

People ready/trying to off themselves because of shit happening in a video game have far more important things to be worrying about than their pixel spaceships on the internet. Like talking to a fucking doctor or people who actually give a shit and can do something to help them (aka, likely not people on the internet).

That probably comes off as a little more callously than intended, but I don't really have much patience for attentionwhores, least of all ones who use something like suicide as a method of gaining that attention.

[Bacchanalian]

Bacch, I don't suppose you are particularly bothered by CCP's response to the Mittani due to OOC/OOG connections? I may be miffed if my friend got treated in such and such way, too.

v0v Besides being his doppleganger I have no connection to him whatsoever.  I was bothered by the precedent of being held liable for actions at fanfest and thus OOG.

I suspect the majority of folks at CCP, like anyone with an ounce of (un)common sense,  wouldn't have given two shits about this incident had it not happened in such a high-profile manner.

People ready/trying to off themselves because of shit happening in a video game have far more important things to be worrying about than their pixel spaceships on the internet. Like talking to a fucking doctor or people who actually give a shit and can do something to help them (aka, likely not people on the internet).

That probably comes off as a little more callously than intended, but I don't really have much patience for attentionwhores, least of all ones who use something like suicide as a method of gaining that attention.

It may sound callous, but that's kinda my view as well.

[Matariki Rain]

I was bothered by the precedent of being held liable for actions at fanfest and thus OOG.

Reporting in here as not bothered by that at all, but thoughtful about the implications for griefer-style gameplay which is part of the character of EVE.

[Ulphus]

I was bothered by the precedent of being held liable for actions at fanfest and thus OOG.

I think there are things that could happen OOG that I'd be happy for players to be punished for IG.

I'm thinking of the rumours I heard about people trying to find out where people were IRL so they could cut their power in the middle of a fleet, or people DDoSing/Hacking TS servers at critical times, hacking (as opposed to getting an alt recruited) enemy alliance forums, or hacking accounts. I'd be reasonably happy for CCP to have an opinion on that, and to banhammer people if there was good evidence they were involved.

There are probably other actions I'd look at and think  "that's taking things too far, out of the sandpit!"

[Silas Vitalia]

I'd love for ilegal OOG activities like mentioned above to result in permabans.

I guess I'm just not playing the same game some of these people are.

I was bothered by the precedent of being held liable for actions at fanfest and thus OOG.

I think there are things that could happen OOG that I'd be happy for players to be punished for IG.

I'm thinking of the rumours I heard about people trying to find out where people were IRL so they could cut their power in the middle of a fleet, or people DDoSing/Hacking TS servers at critical times, hacking (as opposed to getting an alt recruited) enemy alliance forums, or hacking accounts. I'd be reasonably happy for CCP to have an opinion on that, and to banhammer people if there was good evidence they were involved.

There are probably other actions I'd look at and think  "that's taking things too far, out of the sandpit!"

[Davlos]

I suspect the majority of folks at CCP, like anyone with an ounce of (un)common sense,  wouldn't have given two shits about this incident had it not happened in such a high-profile manner.

People ready/trying to off themselves because of shit happening in a video game have far more important things to be worrying about than their pixel spaceships on the internet. Like talking to a fucking doctor or people who actually give a shit and can do something to help them (aka, likely not people on the internet).

That probably comes off as a little more callously than intended, but I don't really have much patience for attentionwhores, least of all ones who use something like suicide as a method of gaining that attention.

The Mittani is fortunate that the kid he was trying to harass didn't actually carry out the deed. If the kid actually did it, it would've been a world of shitty publicity for the game and Mittani will be in court, not sitting at home and writing retarded blogposts.

Hasn't anyone already learned about what may happen with internet harassment leading to deaths from Tyler Clementi's case? Personally nothing will give me greater joy than to see a Goon or even Mittani be given repetitive doses of prison sex as a consequence for their actions.

[Louella Dougans]

I'm merely bringing up another similar story with a different outcome that garnered different reactions.  I think it's an interesting to discuss the similarities and differences.

I think it's quite different, because of the difference in intent.

Intention is to obtain large amounts of assets, which is a normal gameplay gain for the swindler. The resulting harm to an individual, was a by-product which cannot reasonably be predicted, due to the game environment.
Swindling, fundamentally, there is the thing about Trust. The game environment repeatedly mentions about Trust, and how trusting the wrong person is hazardous. Therefore, you cannot reasonably trust people you do not know to be telling the truth when they say "X is an unbalanced person".

People sometimes kill themselves in poker games because of losing heavily. Do poker players get paranoid that one of their opponents might be in that situation ? I don't get the impression that's the case.


Comparison to the Mittani's thing, where the intention was to target a specific person, for no gameplay reason, other than to make them quit the game, and possibly harass them into killing themself.
There's no real way to make that into a positive thing publicity wise.


Morwen makes a point too, about the attention. There's people I've encountered, who have talked (in ooc channel) about how people should lay off them abit, because of them being "depressed" about a direction that RP went in. I think there was one thing where someone had a thing, and someone else saw them ingame doing something different, and called them out IC, and the person complained OOC, and said it was so unfair people were picking on them. It was bad.

I would feel bad, if someone killed themselves, but things like that happen. I've had friends and relatives, who I have said things to, or not said things to, and then, before anything else can happen, someone dies. It is sad, and I go "i should have done X", but life goes on. I can't be relentlessly nice and upbeat 110% of the time, and neither should I.

And people threatening to kill themselves, well, it makes me angry, because they are saying that other people, shouldn't get to enjoy a game, because of Them. Well, that's very selfish. Especially when they're not serious. Because people who are genuinely that upset, aren't generally that talkative about things.

I dunno. vOv

[Kala]

But your constant blating of "the goons aren't as bad as you say" and/or "Mittens is a cool dude and don't deserve the shit he got for being an asshole" is getting tiresome; those who agree with you have stated as such, those who don't have also made it clear.

All your doing right now is underlining the feelings and opinions of the ones that don't like the goons, and don't much help your cause, quite the contrary, you seem to be hell-bent on continuing your line of reasoning and behavior regardless of what happens or is said here.

I think I understand what you're saying; that you feel the conversation has reached it's conclusion and that to repeat points is unconstructive?

He is, however, free to continue his line of reasoning regardless of what happens or what is said; insofar that if his opinion is unswayed by the arguments of others, there is no reason why his opinion should change. 

As long as he is doing so in a respectful manner, I would've thought he is free to continue to express himself, regardless if his opinion is not the common consensus?

[Wanoah]

I would feel bad, if someone killed themselves, but things like that happen. I've had friends and relatives, who I have said things to, or not said things to, and then, before anything else can happen, someone dies. It is sad, and I go "i should have done X", but life goes on. I can't be relentlessly nice and upbeat 110% of the time, and neither should I.

And people threatening to kill themselves, well, it makes me angry, because they are saying that other people, shouldn't get to enjoy a game, because of Them. Well, that's very selfish. Especially when they're not serious. Because people who are genuinely that upset, aren't generally that talkative about things.

I dunno. vOv

Whenever anyone dies, almost everyone connected with them questions whether there was anything they could have done or whether there was anything they could have done differently. I think it's worse when it's suicide, but even when someone dies in their bed at a grand old age we still question ourselves. We all feel guilt. It's part of the process.

Suicidal people are selfish and so are the people that talk in terms of being suicidal to get stuff: attention, pity, a free pass from everyone to be a dick, whatever. In the case of the former, there's probably not much the suicidal person can do about it: once you get into that state, your awareness of others is diminished and your perception of the world around you is altered by the state you are in. In the case of the latter, well, they are cunts. No one likes an attention whore. In the context of a chat channel in a game where people are supposed to having fun it's next to impossible to distinguish between the two. 

[Kala]

No one likes an attention whore.

 

[John Revenent]

Said another way, if I am playing a character and I claim to be an alt of someone else - have I broken the EULA?

Not sure if this was addressed but one of my CEO's was impersonated some time ago by an 'alt' claiming to be him (By name). His directors believed him allowing him access to the corp assets. After he stole everything he informed them that he was just faking to be him and left. We consulted the EULA, petitioned CCP and they banned his accounts, gave back all the stolen items.